Thai Army Tells Red Shirts To Disperse From Rally Base

[chadintheusa]

On TV police in riot gear are facing off with reds standing across the road near sala daeng. Any updates from people in the area, Nation and BKK post haven't posted any news in a while.

[slapout]

Thai military, police, and political figures, as well as a portion of the business people, have made a mockery of the titles and positions as they are defined/practiced in the world where the terms and conditions of service were first proposed/instigated.

The ranking for corruption between these 4 groups, by any independent unbiased group (next to impossible to find in Thailand) would be a never ending struggle just to keep the specific actions and methods up to date. Most countries have separation where only 2 of the referenced groups may attempt to work the system together, and thus a built in watch dog in each group not getting spoils. The apparent practice here seems to be, all 4 groups working together until one is perceived as getting more than the perceived share, thus those who feel left out go after the offender, if no acceptable deal can be reached.

[sbk]

Given the highly inflammatory nature of some posts and posters in the News forum, we are instituting a zero tolerance policy with regards to posting inflammatory comments, comments advocating violence, trollish comments, and flames. You will receive an automatic posting rights suspension for this behavior in the News forum. Bear that in mind when posting

[SanSaiExPat]

Oh how rich that is. A classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. If you review all the posts here you’ll note a surprising lack of substance and facts on any posts supporting the Bangkok Elite and the current government. Those posts are indeed bereft of reasoning and logic and like your post, for the most part, consist mainly of name calling. “Crackpot” is a good example. Indeed, the posts which support the government that was illegally overthrown by a military coup are well reasoned. The posts that now simply call for new fair and free elections seem unassailable.

You must be joking?

The "facts" have been posted time and time again but nobody on the RED seems able to understand anything that doesn't agree with exactly what they want to say and hear word for word. Anyone that attempts to point out that fact is called a Yellow... its tiresome childish and about what I would expect from anyone associated with or sympathetic to that movement.

Fair and free elections.. good lord man do you live in a cave?

I don't see anything constructive in your post. The only thing you offer in what can only be described as a "holier than thou tone" is that I must, "…live in a cave?" for calling for elections. You then resort to complaining that the people you don't agree with are "tiresome" or "childish". (I assume this includes me.) All of this is just name calling. There is nothing substantive to discuss in your post.

[OzMick]

Sounds like things are getting out of control

Think things will calm now. It's obvious the bombs didn't come out of the red side so it must be an Agent Provoctuer.

There really are people on the ELite side who would kill a few of their own to drag the army in.

Army only hope really and they will go after CRES who have been undermining them all day... IMHO

As the reds went to the UN and called for third party talks, out came the PAD, Thaugsabun and his Army co-horts. Threats of PAD violence saying they will clear them off the streets and the renegage army commander issuing threat this morning, Memebers on here crying out for violence all week, why dont' the army anthrax them, bomb them run them over with trains, agent orange them, starve them out etc.. Shows who wants the violence. And look at the ones that will be crying in the morning about red violence.

Violence was ok when they were calling for it against the reds, bang and a few injuries in Silom and violence is not ok. But it will be ok again when they call the army to kill reds wont it?

WE do not need anymore ratcheting up of this.

I hope all the people are ok.

Re your points, last to first:

They are NOT OK. There are wounded and dead.

WE meaning you and your red mates.

If you offer violence, expect it back. Remember the declaration of war?

Why do you need 3rd party talks? Remember "No negotiation!" Who's position is that?

You think the elite would kill a few of their own for P.R. You don't think that happened on the 10th? Reds are morally superior?

You think things will calm down, as people lie dying. How is it obvious that the people currently celebrating this act had nothing to do with it? What is to celebrate in the maiming/killing of innocent commuters, those that still have a job?

I hate to repeat myself, so this time you are not an idiot. you are a moron.

[animatic]

Thaksin propoganda machine moves in to overdrive. Sock Puppet Rangers Morph!

" Brainwashed "

"The Red Shirts – from the same nation – say they are fighting for their democratic right to have an election..."

Now that's just not true. They aren't fighting for this. They are making a non-negotiable demand that the parliament is dissolved immediately and Abhisit and Suthep to leave the country. The demand for house dissolution has been reduced from 15 days to immediate. That is not fighting for the democratic right to have an election.

Their demands are, they have said, non-negotiable and they are have also said that they will continue with their present occupation and try to expand it until those demands are met.

It's astounding that many seem to desperately want to read this conflict through a romantic revolutionary narrative. There seems to be a desperate desire to see the Red leadership as what they would like them to be rather than what they are and what they do. Gosh is one of these.

There is a great deal of international respect for the Red movement and to a lesser extent Thaksin. This doesn't necessarily come from a deep positive attraction to them, but emanates for a deep hatred of their yellow enemies, the oppressors.

And you get this information from where?

Funny most people seem to not understand this fight,

and no one sees this grand generic oppressor icon reds keep trumpeting on about.

[Chaimai]

You think the elite would kill a few of their own for P.R. You don't think that happened on the 10th? Reds are morally superior?

You think things will calm down, as people lie dying. How is it obvious that the people currently celebrating this act had nothing to do with it? What is to celebrate in the maiming/killing of innocent commuters, those that still have a job?

I hate to repeat myself, so this time you are not an idiot. you are a moron.

I can't see too many posts remaining under the new 'crackdown'

[chadintheusa]

Here is a video of a Red protest leader, it is dubbed in English

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TL4XZdyo3g

[chadintheusa]

News from the Nation, instead of taking out the trash, it looks like the BMA wants to go in and pick up the trash that has been collecting at the protest site. Maybe all the rats and roaches in the area are complaining about the vermin in the neighborhood. Why ask city workers to put themselves in danger while the police cower on the sidelines?

[chadintheusa]

The UDD had denied responsibility for the grenade attacks, they have denied that Reds were in Silom, they have denied that the skytrain uses trains, they have denied that Lumpini Park has grass and they have denied that the Dusit Hotel will allow people to sleep in their rooms in exchange for money. Sorry if the credibility of the UDD is less than stellar.

Edited April 23, 2010 by chadintheusa

[tomahawk]

I am not political expert and do not completely understand what all this political turmoil is about. However, I am giving my opinion of this situation not as political analyst but due to my experience of many years as leader of riot squad at maximum security prison in US. Having been involved in many instances of crowd and riot control, I am strongly opposed to using army as the main force in crowd or riot control. Police are trained to control. Army is trained to kill. I have never heard of any case, and I have read and studied about this a great deal, where military forces were deployed against civilian protests that did not result in severe casualties and bloodshed. This is not the fault of military. It is what they are trained for. During the numerous riots and emonstrations I was involved in during my career, there was not one participant killed by our unit, despite the opposition invariably being armed with various weapons, (though they thankfully did not have firearms.)

A riot is a very frightening event, even for a trained veteran. To put poorly trained conscripted soldiers in a riot situation and expect them to act with total restraint and professionalism is unrealistic. If they are fired upon, or attacked with rocks and spears, they will fire and they will not do so in controlled fashion and while they will be undoubtedly crucified as bloodthirsty goons afterwards, I would like the people who criticize their actions to see how they would respond in same situation. My squad and I trained regularly in use of chemical agents, decontamination procedures and post-event processing and restraint procedures, and even so there was inevitably unforeseen events and mistakes which occured in every riot situation. I watched the way chemical agents were deployed during the operation to retake the government house and it was obvious that the squad was unfamiliar with the agents.

I know some will say that a mob of hardened convicts is not same as a crowd of probably mostly peaceful protesters, but a mob is a mob once blood is spilt. Also some may not agree withn use of word "riot", but as far as I am concerned once a mob becomes violent it ceases to be a deomonstration and becomes a riot.

I am not trying to criticize or defame thai army or police or even protesters. Whether red shirts are right or wrong is not my concern as I am a guest in this country anyway. My main point here is that the situation here should be handled by a well-trained police force, and not a poorly-trained, or for that matter even a well-trained, army.

[Jimmu]

You think the elite would kill a few of their own for P.R. You don't think that happened on the 10th? Reds are morally superior?

You think things will calm down, as people lie dying. How is it obvious that the people currently celebrating this act had nothing to do with it? What is to celebrate in the maiming/killing of innocent commuters, those that still have a job?

I hate to repeat myself, so this time you are not an idiot. you are a moron.

I can't see too many posts remaining under the new 'crackdown'

I think you are right! Can't go on giving morons a bad name like that...

[chadintheusa]

I am not political expert and do not completely understand what all this political turmoil is about. However, I am giving my opinion of this situation not as political analyst but due to my experience of many years as leader of riot squad at maximum security prison in US. Having been involved in many instances of crowd and riot control, I am strongly opposed to using army as the main force in crowd or riot control. Police are trained to control. Army is trained to kill. I have never heard of any case, and I have read and studied about this a great deal, where military forces were deployed against civilian protests that did not result in severe casualties and bloodshed. This is not the fault of military. It is what they are trained for. During the numerous riots and emonstrations I was involved in during my career, there was not one participant killed by our unit, despite the opposition invariably being armed with various weapons, (though they thankfully did not have firearms.)

A riot is a very frightening event, even for a trained veteran. To put poorly trained conscripted soldiers in a riot situation and expect them to act with total restraint and professionalism is unrealistic. If they are fired upon, or attacked with rocks and spears, they will fire and they will not do so in controlled fashion and while they will be undoubtedly crucified as bloodthirsty goons afterwards, I would like the people who criticize their actions to see how they would respond in same situation. My squad and I trained regularly in use of chemical agents, decontamination procedures and post-event processing and restraint procedures, and even so there was inevitably unforeseen events and mistakes which occured in every riot situation. I watched the way chemical agents were deployed during the operation to retake the government house and it was obvious that the squad was unfamiliar with the agents.

I know some will say that a mob of hardened convicts is not same as a crowd of probably mostly peaceful protesters, but a mob is a mob once blood is spilt. Also some may not agree withn use of word "riot", but as far as I am concerned once a mob becomes violent it ceases to be a deomonstration and becomes a riot.

I am not trying to criticize or defame thai army or police or even protesters. Whether red shirts are right or wrong is not my concern as I am a guest in this country anyway. My main point here is that the situation here should be handled by a well-trained police force, and not a poorly-trained, or for that matter even a well-trained, army.

Sure a police force who did they jobs would be an improvement. As a prison guard did your riots involve prisoners armed with assault rifles? In that case I think even highly trained police might be inclined to use lethal force.

[chadintheusa]

For your viewing enjoyment here is the English version of the Red protesters theme song

http://listoftheday.blogspot.com/2009/12/c...f-day-kill.html

here are the lyrics so you can sing along

I live in a shanty in the shantytown.

We have no money so we had to sleep on the ground.

I played the music. My father he dig a ditch.

My mother she do laundry life sure was a bitch.

But 'till we killed the white people. Ooh we gun make them hurt.

Kill the white people yea. But buy my record first.

Ooh yea. Why don’t you buy my record?

We sing of freedom and ooh equality.

But we really don’t care we just want money money money.

We want to drive in a big black limosine.

Get so high off ganja we cant even see.

and then we kill the white people. Ooh we gunna make them hurt.

Kill the white people. Yea. Ooh but buy my record first ooh.

When u go in the record store. We gunna wait outside.

We gunna hit them in the head with a bat and make them cry.

but 'till we kill the white people.

Yea but buy my record first.

[animatic]

It has gotten quieter here since so many seemed

to have nothing better to post than slagging and propaganda.

No signs of a big push for disbursal yet.

Just the morning incident about road blocks.

[traderjm]

Oh how rich that is. A classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. If you review all the posts here you’ll note a surprising lack of substance and facts on any posts supporting the Bangkok Elite and the current government. Those posts are indeed bereft of reasoning and logic and like your post, for the most part, consist mainly of name calling. “Crackpot” is a good example. Indeed, the posts which support the government that was illegally overthrown by a military coup are well reasoned. The posts that now simply call for new fair and free elections seem unassailable.

You must be joking?

The "facts" have been posted time and time again but nobody on the RED seems able to understand anything that doesn't agree with exactly what they want to say and hear word for word. Anyone that attempts to point out that fact is called a Yellow... its tiresome childish and about what I would expect from anyone associated with or sympathetic to that movement.

Fair and free elections.. good lord man do you live in a cave?

I don't see anything constructive in your post. The only thing you offer in what can only be described as a "holier than thou tone" is that I must, "…live in a cave?" for calling for elections. You then resort to complaining that the people you don't agree with are "tiresome" or "childish". (I assume this includes me.) All of this is just name calling. There is nothing substantive to discuss in your post.

You should probably brush up on the reading skills there champ.

You must live in a cave for calling for "fair and free" elections, if you knew anything about Thailand or god forbid lived here you would know that is simply impossible, maybe some day decades from now, but not now not under the current structure of things and giving in to an angry mob will not make it change any faster

You then incorrectly I might add state that I find people that disagree with me "tiresome and childish" which is NOT at all what I said. I said that people on the RED side seemed unable to acknowledge ANY fact that counters what they say and just try to shout them down and call the people Yellow. Meaning if you don't love the REDS you must be Yellow which is in fact tiresome and childish I am surprised you don't agree that.

I would put forth that perhaps the reason you found nothing worth discussing in my post was that you did not understand it or perhaps read it with your mind made up at to what my intent was.

[clausewitz]

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo2...earch%20Results

interesting article here from Japan Times

[zorro1]

Sky train closed as of 6pm tonight. not sure if its posted

[Siam Simon]

Oh how rich that is. A classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. If you review all the posts here you’ll note a surprising lack of substance and facts on any posts supporting the Bangkok Elite and the current government. Those posts are indeed bereft of reasoning and logic and like your post, for the most part, consist mainly of name calling. “Crackpot” is a good example. Indeed, the posts which support the government that was illegally overthrown by a military coup are well reasoned. The posts that now simply call for new fair and free elections seem unassailable.

You must be joking?

The "facts" have been posted time and time again but nobody on the RED seems able to understand anything that doesn't agree with exactly what they want to say and hear word for word. Anyone that attempts to point out that fact is called a Yellow... its tiresome childish and about what I would expect from anyone associated with or sympathetic to that movement.

Fair and free elections.. good lord man do you live in a cave?

I don't see anything constructive in your post. The only thing you offer in what can only be described as a "holier than thou tone" is that I must, "…live in a cave?" for calling for elections. You then resort to complaining that the people you don't agree with are "tiresome" or "childish". (I assume this includes me.) All of this is just name calling. There is nothing substantive to discuss in your post.

You should probably brush up on the reading skills there champ.

You must live in a cave for calling for "fair and free" elections, if you knew anything about Thailand or god forbid lived here you would know that is simply impossible, maybe some day decades from now, but not now not under the current structure of things and giving in to an angry mob will not make it change any faster

You then incorrectly I might add state that I find people that disagree with me "tiresome and childish" which is NOT at all what I said. I said that people on the RED side seemed unable to acknowledge ANY fact that counters what they say and just try to shout them down and call the people Yellow. Meaning if you don't love the REDS you must be Yellow which is in fact tiresome and childish I am surprised you don't agree that.

I would put forth that perhaps the reason you found nothing worth discussing in my post was that you did not understand it or perhaps read it with your mind made up at to what my intent was.

And this post inadvertently sums up the general attitude in these discussions: 'My position is right. You don't (want to) listen/understand. You just shout me down and call me a Yellow/Red apologist. If you don't support my views you must be Yellow/Red.' And so on and so forth. hel_l, we even have one poster issuing rallying calls to defend the forum's integrity . Let's face it: We're a group of forumers (sp?) made up almost entirely of non-Thais; our influence in the unfolding events is absolutely minimal; we are getting understandably upset by said unfolding events in a country we all (most of us, anyway) love. But some posters are taking our fascinating but irrelevant (in the real scheme of things) discussions way too seriously,

Edited April 23, 2010 by Siam Simon

[clausewitz]

PAD pinks showing their true colors now ...yellow!

And same with their supporters. They have been building up a big appetite for Violence as they thought it was going to be the Reds getting shot.

TAN started out tonight with what appeared to be a balanced piece of Journalism. Then Khun Paisal stepped up to the mike with his spitting, venemous monologue.

The irony was that as he was burbling something about lawlessness, the screen was showing revolving footage of the multi-colors (the night before) lobbing bricks and bottles in the road. The reds were well out of reach and were watching bemused. One group provoking and carrying out all the violence.

Also, there were mobs shouting and screaming at the Army, making fatuous comments about the reds etc.

All the while poor old Khun Paisal was bleating and blathering and killing off the bit of reputation the women had managed to claw back for the station before he came in. He blathered about lawlessness in Bangkok (forgot the PAD), armed factions roaming the streets (forgot the PAD gunmen in Bangkok on the sound truck) he wailed about the Army doing nothing (the same nothing they did when PAD were in the airport) etc. etc. All with no sense of irony.

Well, they all wanted violence, the Army threatened it, the PAD threatened it, the PAD falangs on here called for it The Silom Mob carried it out and the real anger now is that the wrong people (as they see it) got hurt. How many som nam nahs from the PAD falangs tonight if the army had shot a load of them and put another 800 in hospital?

It is always the wrong people who get hurt and these numpties should learn to turn their backs on violence. But they won't

best post on this thread.

[quiksilva]

PAD pinks showing their true colors now ...yellow!

And same with their supporters. They have been building up a big appetite for Violence as they thought it was going to be the Reds getting shot.

TAN started out tonight with what appeared to be a balanced piece of Journalism. Then Khun Paisal stepped up to the mike with his spitting, venemous monologue.

The irony was that as he was burbling something about lawlessness, the screen was showing revolving footage of the multi-colors (the night before) lobbing bricks and bottles in the road. The reds were well out of reach and were watching bemused. One group provoking and carrying out all the violence.

Also, there were mobs shouting and screaming at the Army, making fatuous comments about the reds etc.

All the while poor old Khun Paisal was bleating and blathering and killing off the bit of reputation the women had managed to claw back for the station before he came in. He blathered about lawlessness in Bangkok (forgot the PAD), armed factions roaming the streets (forgot the PAD gunmen in Bangkok on the sound truck) he wailed about the Army doing nothing (the same nothing they did when PAD were in the airport) etc. etc. All with no sense of irony.

Well, they all wanted violence, the Army threatened it, the PAD threatened it, the PAD falangs on here called for it The Silom Mob carried it out and the real anger now is that the wrong people (as they see it) got hurt. How many som nam nahs from the PAD falangs tonight if the army had shot a load of them and put another 800 in hospital?

It is always the wrong people who get hurt and these numpties should learn to turn their backs on violence. But they won't

best post on this thread.

I suppose you could read it like that.. if you are of the mind that advocates the use of war weapons on innocent people.

[tonyPhuket]

Let accept the following facts:

- Red Shirts invades the area of Ratchaprasong.

- Business are affected due that area disturbed.

For attention of Red Shirts,

Are you saying this is a perfect solution to reach your achievement?

Is that good for the nation of Thailand?

Do you expect all the parties will support that?

If your answer is "Yes" to above, then I shall be very surprised to hear that.

[peecee]

Pity they did'nt crackdown on the yellows previously, if they had of, maybe the reds would'nt have copied them. The two airports and government house were occupied without any resitance from the army or police. Double standards.

*SIGH* where do they keep coming from? I thought it was LOW season now so all the tourists left...

So just because you don't agree you have a go at someones veiw! It's true the yellow's have given the red's a bad example & as for the government; they appointed yellow leader's into power!!

[peecee]

I can see that if the Junta doesn't call an election soon then civil unrest will tear the country into pieces!

[traderjm]

And this post inadvertently sums up the general attitude in these discussions: 'My position is right. You don't (want to) listen/understand. You just shout me down and call me a Yellow/Red apologist. If you don't support my views you must be Yellow/Red.' And so on and so forth. hel_l, we even have one poster issuing rallying calls to defend the forum's integrity . Let's face it: We're a group of forumers (sp?) made up almost entirely of non-Thais; our influence in the unfolding events is absolutely minimal; we are getting understandably upset by said unfolding events in a country we all (most of us, anyway) love. But some posters are taking our fascinating but irrelevant (in the real scheme of things) discussions way too seriously,

Actually it was not inadvertent at all, I support neither the REDS or Yellows any group that tries to impose their will on others. I have long agreed that the REDS have real and honest complaints, but they will NEVER be solved for the long term with what they are doing now. I totally dislike the taking of the airport.. etc..that the yellows did and I sure as hope/wish the keepers of the PAD would keep them in their cages throughout this current mess. The stuff you refer to is exactly the stuff I am talking about... which is what the poster I quoted was doing to me, without actually taking the time to read/digest what I posted.. that is annoying...

I'll tell you a funny story my wife (thai) and I were talking this morning about the "bombings" last night and I said it will be very interesting to see if they ever get to the bottom of who actually did it. She looked at me like I had three eyes and said the REDS did. I asked why do you say that, she said of course they did all Thai's know they did, you farangs always try to make everything more complicated than it is. I said ok so how does this play out, she said like EVERYTHING in Thailand does it will end in whichever way the most amount of people make/gain the most amount of money/power from it. Pretty tidy and to the point and I think she is right, US farang to tend to over analyse or read into far too much that goes on in a culture that most of have at best a very flimsy connection to.

[traderjm]

Pity they did'nt crackdown on the yellows previously, if they had of, maybe the reds would'nt have copied them. The two airports and government house were occupied without any resitance from the army or police. Double standards.

*SIGH* where do they keep coming from? I thought it was LOW season now so all the tourists left...

So just because you don't agree you have a go at someones veiw! It's true the yellow's have given the red's a bad example & as for the government; they appointed yellow leader's into power!!

NO I wonder what the point of the comment was, different time different gov't and different group protesting... hard to compare the two.. but people like you will try...just because the gov't at the time cracked down on the Yellows at the time is NO guarantee that the current totally different gov't would follow the same path.. hence my comment...

[chantorn]

Let accept the following facts:

- Red Shirts invades the area of Ratchaprasong.

- Business are affected due that area disturbed.

For attention of Red Shirts,

Are you saying this is a perfect solution to reach your achievement?

Is that good for the nation of Thailand?

Do you expect all the parties will support that?

If your answer is "Yes" to above, then I shall be very surprised to hear that.

My answer is a big NO.

The RED are so stupid & unimaginative; they just copy blindly from the YELLOW PAD.

[pornsasi]

Here to hear my daily dose of red bashing and call to violence

[johndow500]

now for all of you Foreign or Domestic,

i want to tell you why the Abhisit Government needs to hang on for 9 or 12 more months before he throws in the towel.

in october the army are going to have a reshiffle where all the generals are being replaced by fresh men.

and the generals can cash-in and steal the country blind, now, those colonels shot dead on april 10 were done by the agent provocaters(sorry for the bad spelling) now guess who donn'it the generals orders...........LoL

ps. i am no color or on either sides, i just want the real news!

[Who, me ?]

So, you think you have discovered something that no one else had noticed? Thanks for the enlightement...