Paypal Accounts

[samran]

Hello,

I'm in the process of selling our car.

I've got a potential buyer who wants me to set up a pay pal account so he can pay me. He contacted me by email as he said he is outside of Thailand and works offshore on rigs or something but wants a car like the one I am selling when he comes to town. So he is happy to buy the car sight unseen, apart from a few pictures I've sent (too good to be true?)

I know nothing about pay pal.

My question is, should I be worried about any potential fraud by opening up a pay pal account and letting him pay me that way? I kind of recall that your classic nigerian scam asks you to provide account detail, which of course, this guy needs for him to pay me.

Many thanks in advance.

[Morden]

Take a look at the PayPal.com website to see how it works.

Neither party to a transaction gets bank account details. The benefit to you would be a swift and cost free transaction. The benefit to your buyer would be that he could get his money back should you fail to hand over the car. And neither of you will give banking information to the other. You will encounter some whingers who criticise Pay Pal but I have always found them to be an excellent service provider and very security conscious.

If you have a Thai bank account you could use ThaiPay which seems to work in much the same way. In have no personal experience of them.

Regarding the purchaser, he will have to get a letter from Immigration to prove that he has a Thai address before the vehicle registration office will amend the green book. You might want to check that he knows the ropes here and has an address before getting involved in a money transaction.

[samran]

Take a look at the PayPal.com website to see how it works.

Neither party to a transaction gets bank account details. The benefit to you would be a swift and cost free transaction. The benefit to your buyer would be that he could get his money back should you fail to hand over the car. And neither of you will give banking information to the other. You will encounter some whingers who criticise Pay Pal but I have always found them to be an excellent service provider and very security conscious.

If you have a Thai bank account you could use ThaiPay which seems to work in much the same way. In have no personal experience of them.

Regarding the purchaser, he will have to get a letter from Immigration to prove that he has a Thai address before the vehicle registration office will amend the green book. You might want to check that he knows the ropes here and has an address before getting involved in a money transaction.

OK - thanks.

You seem to mention that there is some recourse for him to get his money back if he doesn't receive the product, which in theory is fair enough.

He is proposing that he will send a moving company to pick up the car. Of course I need to sign the transfer papers for that to happen. However, in the meantime, it seems like he has my car as well as recourse (via pay pal) for a time to simply take his money back.

How can I ensure that at the instant the moving company picks up the car on his behalf, paypal can guarantee that the money is now safely 'mine'.

[Morden]

Frankly, I wouldn't do that. If you don't go through the change of ownership process with him and the vehicle present he could claim later that he didn't get what he paid for. If he claimed his money back PayPal would contact you but you would have no legal proof that you transferred the car to him.

He may be genuine but you would be taking a risk if you did what he asks. In any case, how would you remove your name from the green book after the car has gone? You could tell him that he can buy the car when he returns to Thailand if you have not already sold it. He may then offer to do a bank transfer but then you would have to give him your banking details and also still have the problem that your name is on the green book.

I'd wait for a buyer who can do the deal properly.

[samran]

Frankly, I wouldn't do that. If you don't go through the change of ownership process with him and the vehicle present he could claim later that he didn't get what he paid for. If he claimed his money back PayPal would contact you but you would have no legal proof that you transferred the car to him.

He may be genuine but you would be taking a risk if you did what he asks. In any case, how would you remove your name from the green book after the car has gone? You could tell him that he can buy the car when he returns to Thailand if you have not already sold it. He may then offer to do a bank transfer but then you would have to give him your banking details and also still have the problem that your name is on the green book.

I'd wait for a buyer who can do the deal properly.

Thanks Morden,

Just what I was thinking.

[ham]

Hi

open a paypal account (they will verify your details) and you can go. They have a cool email solution.

You need to give the buyers email and the amount in a mask on paypal, that's all. All the rest is generated through paypal.

After that you can follow the buyers move and payment. You need to charge something for the money transfer, depending the amount requested.

If the payment is made, paypal play's monopoly with the money for at least one week ;-)

After that you move the amount to your account by your thai bank (which will be and must be verified also through paypal before). Just follow the clear instructions.

Quite simple and easy, I use it for my booking business too

Just try no problem at all

ham

[Nio]

Paypal is the biggest online paying service in the world, now owned by EBAY.

Cars are bought and sold site unseen every day of the year on EBAY

I use paypal for almost everything

It is as secure as secure gets

Need to outline all details in your paypal notes section just like a contract, ie buyer buying site unseen no refund etc as car is advertised 100% correct as is

Within 2 hours of payment, the money is in your paypal account

Stipulate that as soon as payment arrives, the car belongs to him, and there is no refund or return

Paypal is the best way for this

Selling a used car is not easy in Thailand, take the money and don't worry

[Morden]

Paypal is the biggest online paying service in the world, now owned by EBAY.

Cars are bought and sold site unseen every day of the year on EBAY

I use paypal for almost everything

It is as secure as secure gets

Need to outline all details in your paypal notes section just like a contract, ie buyer buying site unseen no refund etc as car is advertised 100% correct as is

Within 2 hours of payment, the money is in your paypal account

Stipulate that as soon as payment arrives, the car belongs to him, and there is no refund or return

Paypal is the best way for this

Selling a used car is not easy in Thailand, take the money and don't worry

It's not PayPal that's the issue here, it's the possibility that the buyer isn't genuine. He's not in the country and wants someone to take away a vehicle after making a payment that PayPal may be forced to refund and with no proof that it is delivered to him. If he has family in Thailand who damage the car before he sees it he or they may try to claim that it arrived in that condition. Anything less than a legal transfer of ownership may be insufficient proof of the deal for PayPal.

I agree that it might go smoothly but there is a risk and scams of this type are very common.

[asia_pilot]

Haha. Do a simple google search about Paypal. They are a joke. They are not a bank in any way, you have no protection if soemthing goes wrong. Paypal is not easy with new customers and large amounts. You might see you money blocked for several months. Paypal might be fine for selling a pen or T Shirt on ebay, but not for large transactions.

Short: Stay away from it and look for a geniue buyer who can pay cash!

[bifftastic]

Don't give him the car until the funds are clear in your bank account. Not your paypal account, your bank account. Paypal is very secure, they charge you and the exchange rate isn't fantastic but it works quite well.

You have to jump through a few hoops to get your bank account linked and verified.

I believe the scams you were referring to were fake paypal emails showing funds had been credited to an account, followed by the scammer hassling for the goods...can't remember the details, anyway, once the funds are actually in your bank then you can sign over the car.

As someone posted before, people use paypal to buy cars every day on ebay.

[samran]

Don't give him the car until the funds are clear in your bank account. Not your paypal account, your bank account. Paypal is very secure, they charge you and the exchange rate isn't fantastic but it works quite well.

You have to jump through a few hoops to get your bank account linked and verified.

I believe the scams you were referring to were fake paypal emails showing funds had been credited to an account, followed by the scammer hassling for the goods...can't remember the details, anyway, once the funds are actually in your bank then you can sign over the car.

As someone posted before, people use paypal to buy cars every day on ebay.

Having thought about it a little bit more, I went down this route.

I've told him very explicitly that I will not sign the transfer of ownership documents or hand over the blue book until the monies are safely in my account, after I've transferred them from the pay pal account. There is no recouse for refunds. He's insisted paypal as his form of transfering the money, so I've insisted on my own conditions.

Lets see....

[Robbogeordie]

Cars are bought and sold site unseen every day of the year on EBAY

Selling a used car is not easy in Thailand, take the money and don't worry

Do NOT take above advice.

We have a Paypal Verified Business Account for 7 years and find them excellent.

Paypal facilitates easy transactions and for that it is very useful,but you have to do your due dilligence or risk losing.With this transaction as per what you've told us you're dead in the water.

Too many red flags.It may be genuine,but it seems unlikely and the risk is all on your side.

Here's how :

Red flags : Bought unseen,buyer sending their own people to pick the vehicle up,you have no proof that the purchaser has received the car,he is outside Thailand - All of course could be explained away,but ...if it looks like a fish,smells like a fish ...

You lose: What if you are paid through a compromised account - the money is taken back by Paypal (even if you have already removed the money from your account YOU are responsible for paying it back or you will be sued).

If it is a legitimate buyer you could subject the transaction to special terms as mentioned,but you will not have proof that they have received the car and I would imagine that there must be some inspection period for any contract to stand up - does the car go to their Paypal Verified Address ...don't think so - if they have paid via Paypal through their credit card and you have not delivered to the Credit Card address and have proof of this then you can also say bye bye to the money - no recourse whatsoever unless you track him down yourself and if you do,best of luck trying to get any money,or your car back..

Your options:

1.)BEST OPTION - Walk away and look for another buyer - You've already decided that it is a scam. Repeat: BEST OPTION - Walk away ....

2.)Open a new Thai bank account where you don't keep any of your own money and ask for a wire transfer,do not release the vehicle until you have withdrawn the funds - not 100% safe,but we've not had problems with this.

3.)Western Union

4.)Escrow - You must follow Escrow conditions and do not use another company for this service as there are phishing copy sites that pretend to operate an escrow service.

Chris

[Robbogeordie]

Just to repeat - after reading your new post - Even if you transfer the money from your Paypal account and then withdraw it from your bank it is not yours if there is a dispute,or fraud.

This is 100% fact - Don't listen to anyone who says otherwise as they don't know what they're talking about.

[samran]

Twas a scam....

guy asked me to pay his shipper up front via western union. Was all a bit strange.

Sent him a 'nice' email cancelling sale...if it was ever happening.

[kuffki]

There is another huge problem that i do not think anyone mentioned.

Once you open an account and he makes the payment-clearly it will be a large payment.

Paypal WILL limit your account and demand verification. Even though it is not a major drama, however it may take time and if you get unlucky and get an idiot doing it(does happen very very often) he will limit your account and you will never see the money.

Another problem, you will be charged a fee of close to 4% of the total amount and if the buyer pays in different currency you will also be screwed on the exchange rate

Also, buyer can open dispute at any time things like unauthorized purchase, item not received and item different. Problem with that is, Paypal decision making is so stupid that you never know what to expect and also may take 3 months-money will be frozen.

Should they rule in buyers favor by mistake, you can say bye bye to the money and car. Once you appeal and they rule in your favor, no way to get the money back from the buyer, so again you out of pocket.

My strong advice would be DO NOT TAKE payment through Paypal.

[dave111223]

This stinks of a scam from a mile away, run as fast as you can. As soon as he gets the car you're account will be frozen and money gone back to whoevers stolen paypal account he used to pay you from.

[sas_cars]

SCAM ALL THE WAY. GET AWAY FROM IT.