Bangkok On Edge After Deadly Grenade Blasts

[way2muchcoffee]

I've got this (strange) feeling now. With the Army saying no force will be used to disperse, it took all the air out of the sails of fury. Now, the Reds say they will accept 30 days and want to negotiate tonight. A huge weight feels lifted.

I think it may all be over soon -- peacefully -- anybody else feel this way?

No. I suspect we will may some grenades landing in the red shirt camps very soon. There are extreme elements in the PAD. They want revenge for the grenades landing in their camps during their sit-in. They want revenge for yesterday. They don't seem like the kind of organization that is going to sit around and watch all their efforts end up with a loss here.

[way2muchcoffee]

Good offer from the Reds.

Dissolve House in 30 days. Followed by 60 days of campaigns before election.

Meaning elections in 90 days from now.

Excellent, lets hope Abhisit and his cronies do not now spit in the face of the people and refuse this offer. It will look very bad on them if they do.

How is that a good offer? If the government was to counter with 6 month dissolution and elections in 9 months would that also be a good offer?

Edited April 23, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[jdinasia]

You will note that people are denying terrorist elements inside the red movement and blaming anyone BUT the people that have publicly called for violence. Yes, we all saw pics of heavily armed 'terrorists' wandering around INSIDE the red lines ... but those aren't reds they are fake reds! We have heard Sae Daeng admit to having heavily armed "Ronin" in the red groups but hel_l .... that's just talk .... it doesn't mean that the people you saw dressed in black mixed in with the reds were actually armed terrorists .... We have Sae Daeng who admittedly trained these people .. calling for grenade attacks ... that then happen ... but hey ... it isn't the reds doing this!

Yes ... it is simply that the reds ARE a violent group that speak violence and take violent action ... then have the red members on thie forum deny it all and blame anyone BUT the people doing the violence.

[commons]

To be ignorant of one's ignorance is the malady of the ignorant.

Yes, it would be ignorant to believe everything that is written

So following that logic why should I believe anything that you write?

You shouldn't, you can either accept my opinions or not, because if we are honest here NONE of us are in possession of the facts. That is why I question things rather than blindly follow what is said by officialdom or by the red shirts, I form my own opinion, it may be right or it may be wrong, time will tell.

no. you don't. you spin.

[granuaile]

I've got this (strange) feeling now. With the Army saying no force will be used to disperse, it took all the air out of the sails of fury. Now, the Reds say they will accept 30 days and want to negotiate tonight. A huge weight feels lifted.

I think it may all be over soon -- peacefully -- anybody else feel this way?

I hope it ends peacefully, but I think the government should not accept those terms. I think it would be a victory for terrorists. I think the government should stand by no less than 6 months...

It seems though that the reads realize that what happened last night is hard for them to brush off. The evidence is clear that they were behind the attacks, and Nuttawut himself admitted it was not clear who had guns on April 10. I hope that it does not include an amnesty for the red leaders,... perhaps they are worried about what the actor captured yesterday is telling and concerned they will face the death penalty for their own roles... I don't really believe in the death penalty but they should all face long prison terms...

[tominbkk]

Wow, real champions for democracy, lol.

[jdinasia]

Good offer from the Reds.

Dissolve House in 30 days. Followed by 60 days of campaigns before election.

Meaning elections in 90 days from now.

Excellent, lets hope Abhisit and his cronies do not now spit in the face of the people and refuse this offer. It will look very bad on them if they do.

LOL .. you really are funny --- Abhisit made a good offer -- elections 1 year early. The reds spit on it and escalated violence. Abhisit should make the same offer again.

[Thunder26]

Lets be pratical here. To avoid further deaths and injuries and save the spiraling downward economy, something is going to have to happen to make the reds go home. Military actions are just NOT going to work. You might kill hundreds of them and push them out of their current location, but they will just regroup elsewhere with even MORE determination and cause havoc elsewhere. Censor more of their media (its all censored now anyway) and that will just piss them off even MORE and strengthen their resolve even MORE.

So what you are suggesting is that government submit to a violent minority mob?

So, in the future, when a small group doesn't get what they want, they just hold a city hostage, and the government will just do exactly what they are asking.

You should know your Abhisit. In the past and in the opposition Abhisit actually came up with the same suggestion in similar situations.

In the past Abhisit hold also nice speeches promising a free media. But now more and more radiostations getting closed, on an average 200-500 URLs per day blocked and the MICT sleuthhound focus on politically seditious websites. And on state-owned Television they show me only a fifth of the truth, manipulated, one-sided, canting.

If you dare to call Abhisit 'unusual rich' you will face a 12-month jail term

Technical Abhisit may be a legitimate PM, he is able to barely survive a censure motion.

I know it is hard for you to understand, but believe that is not the only thing, a small majority + a smirk in the face not enough to proceed. THis government isn't healthy.

In all other aspects that make a PM to a PM, a real country leader Abhisit is a miserable failure. He chose the wrong friends.

THe coalition is on the brink, the dissolution of the democrats will come in the the next few month.

Abhisit isn't The Man anymore. He is a disappointment.

Abhisit will not win. It's over. The question is when he will recognise this.

Nothing will become better now, things start to get worse and worse. He totally underestimated the reds, ignored them. A big mistake. He chosed confrontation instead of cooperation, that is not the way to achieve unity and strengthen Thailand with that unity.

It is time now for a government of national unity. Lots of the reds are moderate people. try to get them.

The growing chaos is a breeding ground for extremists. That is a bigger danger.

What a sad post. The current conditions of Thailand development go against your post. Abhisit has shown a great patience towards dumb people which is quite democratic. What the dumb people want is the dumbest thing could ever be imagined. I advise you to go right now into the red shirt barricades to see how moderate they are... what a sad post, showing how ignorant people can be.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Thunder26

[FatherF]

Good offer from the Reds.

Dissolve House in 30 days. Followed by 60 days of campaigns before election.

Meaning elections in 90 days from now.

Excellent, lets hope Abhisit and his cronies do not now spit in the face of the people and refuse this offer. It will look very bad on them if they do.

You mean like the Reds "Spat in the face" of the government demanding 15 days or we take our toy's away and cause all sorts of problems?

FF

[commons]

You shouldn't, you can either accept my opinions or not, because if we are honest here NONE of us are in possession of the facts. That is why I question things rather than blindly follow what is said by officialdom or by the red shirts, I form my own opinion, it may be right or it may be wrong, time will tell.

Well said

Certainly we are not in possession of all the facts but some of us have been to the protests sites and witnessed things first hand. We have also heard speeches, seen photos and videos as well as heard numerous first hand accounts from both sides and from those not involved. No doubt there is a lot (we hope) going on behind the scenes but there are just too many numerous facts not in question such as the reds taking over the commercial area, the reds being armed (seen it first hand), the reds refusing lawful orders, the reds over running government offices, the reds fortifying their seizure of the commercial district, the reds seizing a military transport train, the reds attacking those trying to enforce the law ....

then we can go on to use common sense in terms of things like a grenade being launched from the red crowd when the reds are frisking everyone entering the area and have beaten at least one person who refused to searched.

Show me the video of this man getting beaten, I am not disputing some reds are armed, I am not disputing they seized a train, however I don't understand the logic about the grenade being launched from the red crowd when people are getting searched, ok I understand that they must have let the guy through with the grenade9I think this what you are getting at), but your point is that it MUST have been fired from the reds, however last night witnesses claim to have seen it fired from the hospital and another from silom complex, so until I have facts rather than assumptions I am allowed to question these comments.

(ps, I have also been to the rally site and spoke with people, all that does is basically mean I have listened to people on one side of the fence, and I have read the reports from the other side of the fence, oddly enough very rarely do they match up, but it would be very foolish of me to beleive everything written by the government when I have clearly seen footage showing they are being a more than a tad liberal with the truth)

seems you've quite a busy day, right?

1) i _am_ _not_ the one to do your homework.

2) you say, "Show me the video of this man getting beaten," - no, i won't. i guess jcbangkok had been referring to translator for media agencies. but, dude, wake up. there's plenty of material available on the net: tweets, photos, videos of "peaceful" red-shirts hitting and maiming _opponents_. sometimes even by-standers.

2a) leave me alone with your post-modern media-interpretation - we're in here for some lalala-circus to exchange opinions & there's no verification of facts... tss tss

3) you spin.

[LevelHead]

Good offer from the Reds.

Dissolve House in 30 days. Followed by 60 days of campaigns before election.

Meaning elections in 90 days from now.

Excellent, lets hope Abhisit and his cronies do not now spit in the face of the people and refuse this offer. It will look very bad on them if they do.

LOL .. you really are funny --- Abhisit made a good offer -- elections 1 year early. The reds spit on it and escalated violence. Abhisit should make the same offer again.

Lets go back then, the Yellow side spat in the face of all Thai's when they held a coup in 2006.

They then spat in the face of the people by putting in place a constitution by force and threat.

They then spat again by holding elections under what was in effect martial law in places.

They then spat again by dissolving the PPP and letting the Democrats get off for similar charges (PPP paying small parties to run in 2006, Democrats paying small parties not to run in 2005). Same offense, one dissolved and one let off.

They then spat again in the face by arranging a "behind the scenes" parliamentary coup and getting the small parties to run with the "hated" Democrats in a coalition government.

Or you want to forget all that........ ?

A good offer, it came after foreign Diplomats visited the Reds area and discussed with them.

Obviously the diplomats did not see any terrorists, perhaps lots of old people and children but not anything else ??

Well done the Reds for listening to the Diplomats and making a good offer.

Now its up to Abhisit to accept it, or spit in the face of the people once more.

[jdinasia]

Poor levelhead ----

The army isn't the PAD isn't the ruling coalition government. The rest of your discussion is conjecture and groundless speculation

The Reds spit on negotiations ... they escalated violence ... they are violent both in the hate speech as well as in actual violence. They go home ... the government does it's job and gractiously holds elections a year early. Anything else is just mob rule.

[way2muchcoffee]

Good offer from the Reds.

Dissolve House in 30 days. Followed by 60 days of campaigns before election.

Meaning elections in 90 days from now.

Excellent, lets hope Abhisit and his cronies do not now spit in the face of the people and refuse this offer. It will look very bad on them if they do.

LOL .. you really are funny --- Abhisit made a good offer -- elections 1 year early. The reds spit on it and escalated violence. Abhisit should make the same offer again.

Lets go back then, the Yellow side spat in the face of all Thai's when they held a coup in 2006.

They then spat in the face of the people by putting in place a constitution by force and threat.

They then spat again by holding elections under what was in effect martial law in places.

They then spat again by dissolving the PPP and letting the Democrats get off for similar charges (PPP paying small parties to run in 2006, Democrats paying small parties not to run in 2005). Same offense, one dissolved and one let off.

They then spat again in the face by arranging a "behind the scenes" parliamentary coup and getting the small parties to run with the "hated" Democrats in a coalition government.

Or you want to forget all that........ ?

A good offer, it came after foreign Diplomats visited the Reds area and discussed with them.

Obviously the diplomats did not see any terrorists, perhaps lots of old people and children but not anything else ??

Well done the Reds for listening to the Diplomats and making a good offer.

Now its up to Abhisit to accept it, or spit in the face of the people once more.

The offer of 30 days is an insult to all of the backers of this government, which by the way represents over 50% of the population of Thailand. Abhisit has about 20 months remaining in his term. I think the red shirts will need to do better than 30 days. Nevertheless, it is encouraging that they now want to talk. One can only speculate as to their reasons.

Have they been nailed on the terrorist charge, now that innocent civilians have been targeted?

Have they been convinced by the foreign diplomats?

Have they had a phone call from Mr. T telling them to call it off after some backroom deal has been negotiated?

Are the leaders fearing for their own skins?

Are they simply tired and don't want to see more death and violence?

Edited April 23, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[LevelHead]

Come on Abhisit, accept this great offer and lets have Democracy in Thailand once again.

You know it makes sense, accept this offer Abhisit.

Peace to all.

[FatherF]

Good offer from the Reds.

Dissolve House in 30 days. Followed by 60 days of campaigns before election.

Meaning elections in 90 days from now.

Excellent, lets hope Abhisit and his cronies do not now spit in the face of the people and refuse this offer. It will look very bad on them if they do.

LOL .. you really are funny --- Abhisit made a good offer -- elections 1 year early. The reds spit on it and escalated violence. Abhisit should make the same offer again.

Lets go back then, the Yellow side spat in the face of all Thai's when they held a coup in 2006.

They then spat in the face of the people by putting in place a constitution by force and threat.

They then spat again by holding elections under what was in effect martial law in places.

They then spat again by dissolving the PPP and letting the Democrats get off for similar charges (PPP paying small parties to run in 2006, Democrats paying small parties not to run in 2005). Same offense, one dissolved and one let off.

They then spat again in the face by arranging a "behind the scenes" parliamentary coup and getting the small parties to run with the "hated" Democrats in a coalition government.

Or you want to forget all that........ ?

A good offer, it came after foreign Diplomats visited the Reds area and discussed with them.

Obviously the diplomats did not see any terrorists, perhaps lots of old people and children but not anything else ??

Well done the Reds for listening to the Diplomats and making a good offer.

Now its up to Abhisit to accept it, or spit in the face of the people once more.

It's up to Abhisit to do what he feels is best for the Kingdom, not just give in to mob rule!

FF

[Thunder26]

Good offer from the Reds.

Dissolve House in 30 days. Followed by 60 days of campaigns before election.

Meaning elections in 90 days from now.

Excellent, lets hope Abhisit and his cronies do not now spit in the face of the people and refuse this offer. It will look very bad on them if they do.

LOL .. you really are funny --- Abhisit made a good offer -- elections 1 year early. The reds spit on it and escalated violence. Abhisit should make the same offer again.

Lets go back then, the Yellow side spat in the face of all Thai's when they held a coup in 2006.

They then spat in the face of the people by putting in place a constitution by force and threat.

They then spat again by holding elections under what was in effect martial law in places.

They then spat again by dissolving the PPP and letting the Democrats get off for similar charges (PPP paying small parties to run in 2006, Democrats paying small parties not to run in 2005). Same offense, one dissolved and one let off.

They then spat again in the face by arranging a "behind the scenes" parliamentary coup and getting the small parties to run with the "hated" Democrats in a coalition government.

Or you want to forget all that........ ?

A good offer, it came after foreign Diplomats visited the Reds area and discussed with them.

Obviously the diplomats did not see any terrorists, perhaps lots of old people and children but not anything else ??

Well done the Reds for listening to the Diplomats and making a good offer.

Now its up to Abhisit to accept it, or spit in the face of the people once more.

Stop f. spitting. The coup wasn't held by yellows, but by the army being supported by monarchy.

The elections were liberal, anyone could vote whatever they wanted, nobody forced them to vote a certain candidate, so shut up if you know nothing.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Thunder26

[way2muchcoffee]

Come on Abhisit, accept this great offer and lets have Democracy in Thailand once again.

You know it makes sense, accept this offer Abhisit.

Peace to all.

Will you say the same to the red shirt leaders if Abhisit counters with 6 months for dissolution and elections in 9 months?

Edited April 23, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Chaimai]

Come on Abhisit, accept this great offer and lets have Democracy in Thailand once again.

You know it makes sense, accept this offer Abhisit.

Peace to all.

Will you say the same to the red shirts if Abhisit he counters with 6 months for dissolution and elections in 9 months?

.... and only today did I learn that "level" was an anagram of "Dick"

[haroldc]

Come on Abhisit, accept this great offer and lets have Democracy in Thailand once again.

You know it makes sense, accept this offer Abhisit.

Peace to all.

Will you say the same to the red shirt leaders if Abhisit counters with 6 months for dissolution and elections in 9 months?

Superb question... keep drinking that coffee!

[commons]

Many Thais say

It was safer in Thailand under the last Coup

Maybe its time for the army to save the country, we know democracy does not work

Yes, I could not agree more. When the coup happened I was in the US, having been here in March and returning nin Nov. When the coup happened I emailed a friend of mine and asked if she was OK. Her response was "Honestly G, I don't know anyone who doesn't support this" and sent photos of people with the troops. When I came back in November everything was calm.

The red shirts clamor for democracy in their rhetoric but it is just rhetoric, their real goal is to bring their boss back. Everyone knows that. And I agree democracy does not work, I've seen it's failure first hand living in the US for 55 years... I think that if there were a coup we'd see scenes like those my friend sent me photos of in 2006 - children giving ice cream to the soldiers, just as the people in Silom welcomed troops the other day with food and drink and smiles.

Reminds me of the German army welcome, as they liberated the gentle people of eastern europe...

read: http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displa...ory_id=15955366

The Economist's approach is a familiar one in the West. I saw much the same on ABC Online ("The Drum") and I believe much the same again appeared in the New York Times and the Toronto Globe and Mail. (Maybe they're using each other's stuff.)

The model of historical change they adopt is that of the French annalistes and their successors, with perhaps a postmodern rejection of "the author". Events must be analysed in terms of broad social movements rather than the short-term consequences of political events or the influence of individuals. Hence, the red shirt phenomenon seen from this perspective can't be a construct of Thaksin, money and populism; it must represent a longer-term social shift. As a consequence, those who point to Thaksin, money-politics, corruption, manipulation of the masses, media, etc. must be seen as short-sighted and missing the big picture.

The trouble is, in trying to get your head around the big picture all the time, you can lose sight of all the little pictures on the ground; in fact, to mix metaphors, you can lose sight of the elephant in the room. Western journalists are the product of their education and training and some have benefited greatly from it. It is wise to keep an eye on the base, not just the superstructure, but it's not the whole picture and often can lead to a skewed interpretation, especially when analyzing such a culturally different phenomenon as conflict resolution in Thailand.

thanks Xangsamhua!

[Thai at Heart]

Well after Anupong re-iterating for the umpteenth time that he won't use force to disperse the crowd, I guess, someone has to negotiate something.

So if its negotiated and the reds go home, does this mean that the rainbow warriors/PAD in disguise just stay put and we start all over again.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[ThailandLovr]

Good offer from the Reds.

<snip>

A good offer, it came after foreign Diplomats visited the Reds area and discussed with them.

Obviously the diplomats did not see any terrorists, perhaps lots of old people and children but not anything else ??

Well done the Reds for listening to the Diplomats and making a good offer.

Now its up to Abhisit to accept it, or spit in the face of the people once more.

I would say this is a good "next" offer. Not another dam_n ultimatum. My guess is the Diplomats basically got through to the Reds that they needed to be open to reasonable proposals or this thing will get so nasty everybody will be losers.

If they can accept 90 or perhaps 60 days, this can all end now. Abhisit would be conceding a lot (I know you don't agree). I believe he knows he has been whipped in this battle and won't win.

Edited April 23, 2010 by ThailandLovr

[Thunder26]

Come on Abhisit, accept this great offer and lets have Democracy in Thailand once again.

You know it makes sense, accept this offer Abhisit.

Peace to all.

Go and check your head before posting because you have no idea what is going on right now, you don't know what makes sense and for the f. sake there is democracy already! What kind of democracy do you expect from the red shirts? Do you expect Thailand to be a republic??? Or Thailand being governed by totalitarian leaders, instead of making people equal reach they would make all people equal poor. Wake up dude, you are dreaming.

[sibeymai]

Walked from Chit Lom to Pantip this afternoon through the barricaded area outside Central World between Ploenchit and Petchaburi Roads. Not a soldier in sight. Hardly seemed "on edge" to me. Dull and boring, in fact.

[elcent]

Video taken from the red shirt side that shows a projectile launched from red side aimed at skybridge/BTS.

No idea of M79 or just "fireworks".

EDIT: Added URL

quite a good vid. Seem to be the grenades

BS - that doesn't show anything at all.

watch the green laser point moving away from the target after the explosions. You can see it moving left to the building. Very clear pictures.

[pagallim]

Poor levelhead ----

The army isn't the PAD isn't the ruling coalition government. The rest of your discussion is conjecture and groundless speculation

The Reds spit on negotiations ... they escalated violence ... they are violent both in the hate speech as well as in actual violence. They go home ... the government does it's job and gractiously holds elections a year early. Anything else is just mob rule.

You're correct, the Army isn't the PAD, and isn't the ruling coalition. The question (bottom line), is whom is controlling either? The Army certainly doesn't seem to be controlled by the current Government, and the obvious absence of Sondhi Limthongkul in terms of either issued statements or attendance of PAD scheduled meetings is almost as bewildering as Abhisit's lack of political and national leadership.

Bottom line, Abhisit should make an exception and demonstrate at least some form of statesmanship, and dissolve Parliament. Problem is that he's not the one calling the shots, and is only having his strings pulled by others whom are playing for time to obtain the best advantage that they can. The Democrats have been unable to form a legitimate government for the last 18 years, and they know that the next election will see them out again (always supposing that they, as a party, survive the EC's decision to recommend dissolution, which, all things being equal, is highly unlikely).

[jybkk]

Interesting day...

Methi arrested and said to "spill the beans"

Bangkok Governor announcing that a BTS video shows M79 shots coming from lumpini park.

and then, not long after, Red leaders start suddenly to want to negotiate.

Mmmmh. Wondering if there's a relation there.

Hope this time a negotiation really takes place...

Too bad so many people have needlessly lost their lives since the last attempt.

[commons]

Come on Abhisit, accept this great offer and lets have Democracy in Thailand once again.

You know it makes sense, accept this offer Abhisit.

Peace to all.

LH, _who_ rejected any further negotiations? hellbent on instigating hatred & violence? deluded they'd have a "mandate" speaking for "the people"? by intimidation?

[Neurath]

Good offer from the Reds.

Dissolve House in 30 days. Followed by 60 days of campaigns before election.

Meaning elections in 90 days from now.

Excellent, lets hope Abhisit and his cronies do not now spit in the face of the people and refuse this offer. It will look very bad on them if they do.

I would hope also that he doesn't. However, there would be a precedent should he do so. His first offer of 9 months was refused point blank by Jatuporn(sms), Veera and Weng, and no further negotiation was countenanced. Spat in the face. It looked bad when they did so.

[rixalex]

Come on Abhisit, accept this great offer and lets have Democracy in Thailand once again.

True democracy has never existed in Thailand and caving in to the demands of a minority mob right now will only take the country a step further back from changing that.

I hope that Abhisit spits in the face of these people (metaphorically speaking of course) who feel it their divine right to coerce an entire nation to follow their wishes.