Thai Protesters, Army Make Tentative Peace Overtures

[danc]

GREAT turn off the power quickly

Harsh but fair

[hoilai]

How does this improve the situation? So they are JUST GONNA let the red shirts n yellow shirts kill each other?

looks like it...also, they can allow protetsters to switch loyalties and shirt colours in between and the slug it out or they have red v. yellow shirt cock-fights, football gamess, grenadee throwing championships, paintball fighting of multicolored waters, and competition on who can build the fastest weapon of mass destruction to wipe each other out and claim their prizes from george bush or rumsfeld.....

[pimay11]

How does this improve the situation? So they are JUST GONNA let the red shirts n yellow shirts kill each other?

looks like it...also, they can allow protetsters to switch loyalties and shirt colours in between and the slug it out or they have red v. yellow shirt cock-fights, football gamess, grenadee throwing championships, paintball fighting of multicolored waters, and competition on who can build the fastest weapon of mass destruction to wipe each other out and claim their prizes from george bush or rumsfeld.....

and competition on who can build the fastest weapon of mass destruction to wipe each other out and calim their prizes fron george bush or rumsfeld

Careful my friend you are revealing your colors. Please leave out your snyde remarks about the US politics on this forum. There are many web sites on the Internet that will welcome you. Your remark has absolutely nothing to do with the onging isuue we are discussing.

[animatic]

If Abhisit and/or Suthep ordered the Army to have live ammo, then it was a smart move. However, I think Army top brass make such decisions after being given directive of achieving a goal from their political higher ups. The goal, on April 10th, was to repel protesters who were getting out of hand and causing a lot of peripheral damage.

It was a smart move to have soldiers bring combat ammo, because they needed it to protect themselves. Remember, the soldiers started out firing rubber bullets in to the air. Then they shot rubber in to the crowd (most of the injuries to the Reds were from rubber). At some point v. early in the melee, disguised gunmen embedded within the Red crowd, wearing latex gloves, shot combat weapons at the soldiers (and lobbed at least on grenade). Those same shooters (ronin, terrorists, black shirts, whatever you want to call them) may have also shot their fellow Reds, because that would further their agenda of causing as much mayhem as possible. Indeed, at least one Red was killed by a bullet in the back from close range, which was unlikely shot by a gov't security person.

If I send soldiers in to harm's way, I sure as shootin' want them to have the right tools for the job and to be able to protect themselves from any eventuality.

More correctly Abhisit and Suthep didn't try and PREVENT the army from ALSO providing live ammo.

Because no army gives it's soldiers weapons they can not use as they are built to use. Just not done.

Knowing that when an enemy sees a rifle, he EXPECTS it to shoot live rounds, that's what it was built for,

and so If he goes against live rounds he USES live rounds. Armies EXPECT to have live rounds used on them,

if they are fired on.

They MAY be loaded with blanks for crowd control, but no army assumes all opposing will understand that,

and so sending a soldier out with a weapon that doesn't work is a suicide mission.

They just do NOT do that.

So whining on about the gov. purposely sending out live ammo is ridiculous in the big picture.

I personally think having soldiers fire into the air and using blanks as policy is idiotic for so many reasons. One, it leaves open the possibility of videos showing troops firing on crowds when the weren't. Two, when firing in the air the bullets come down somewhere. Three, when guns come out, people should be scared but since it is policy to use blanks and fire in the air, people are not as scared as they should be when people are being shot. Four, there are SO MANY MORE effective ways and tools of intimidating the crowd to disperse ... the first being not to have police run away.

Yes, but the picture changes substantially when live ammo is being shot AT the riot squad.

There had be clear threats to do this. Fire on the army. Those threats turned out to be real....

So sending them in with no live rounds would have been a suicide mission.

[BKjohn]

Here is an article from the "Straight Times" Singapore http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=11542 which is of course totally "un-bias "

and only "slightly" leans towards their old friend Thaksin

Here is an idea - ask the Singapore government to take over and solve the problem - with their army over here - 2 hours max and Bangkok would be clean again

Only problem is that they would call old Thaksin back to continue doing business with him .... and would insist in a law against chewing gum ...

Edited April 24, 2010 by BKjohn

[termad]

So if there are elections in 90 days (as proposed by the reds), does that mean the PTP will be banned for electoral fraud in about 12 months?

I don't know about the PTP being banned for electoral fraud but I don't see much point in the Democrats standing for election in 90 days as the Democrat Party will most probably be dissolved shortly after that.

[termad]

Here is an article from the "Straight Times" Singapore http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=11542 which is of course totally "un-bias "

and only "slightly" leans towards their old friend Thaksin

Here is an idea - ask the Singapore government to take over and solve the problem - with their army over here - 2 hours max and Bangkok would be clean again

Only problem is that they would call old Thaksin back to continue doing business with him .... and would insist in a law against chewing gum ...

But you see that the Straight Times has said what The Nation would never say It's not what Abhisit wants it's what the Elite (Amataya) behind him wants.

[yoshiwara]

Here is an article from the "Straight Times" Singapore http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=11542 which is of course totally "un-bias "

and only "slightly" leans towards their old friend Thaksin

Here is an idea - ask the Singapore government to take over and solve the problem - with their army over here - 2 hours max and Bangkok would be clean again

Only problem is that they would call old Thaksin back to continue doing business with him .... and would insist in a law against chewing gum ...

But you see that the Straight Times has said what The Nation would never say It's not what Abhisit wants it's what the Elite (Amataya) behind him wants.

Coming from a red supporter whose wants are dictated explicitly by what Thaksin wants, your comments are a laugh a minute.

[pimay11]

Here is an article from the "Straight Times" Singapore http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=11542 which is of course totally "un-bias "

and only "slightly" leans towards their old friend Thaksin

Here is an idea - ask the Singapore government to take over and solve the problem - with their army over here - 2 hours max and Bangkok would be clean again

Only problem is that they would call old Thaksin back to continue doing business with him .... and would insist in a law against chewing gum ...

But you see that the Straight Times has said what The Nation would never say It's not what Abhisit wants it's what the Elite (Amataya) behind him wants.

The Straight Times is about as unstraight as they come. They are a lap dog press to the ruling familiy. Of course they would be pro Mr. T and agree with whatever his adgenda is.

[termad]

'Abhisit, who has been holed up in a military barracks for weeks because of the protests, added: "I have a duty to solve the problem. If I can't I should not be here."'

The above is a direct quote from the article at the head of this thrtead.

It seems that Abhisit has already commited himself to resign as he has not solved the problem and it appears that he is no nearer to solving it than he was when it started .. Time for him to go for the sake of Thailand, the Thai peoples' lives and the Thai economy. With the correct wording of a statement from him the present government could step down without any further lose of face.

The problem is also the fact that it now seems pretty certain that because of the overwhelming evidence that the EC has the Democrat Party will be dissolved.

So Abhisit would be doing the country a favour by resigning now and letting what remains of the Democrat Party form a new Party to stand for election. This would mean that there will be no disruption to the new parliament.

[pimay11]

'Abhisit, who has been holed up in a military barracks for weeks because of the protests, added: "I have a duty to solve the problem. If I can't I should not be here."'

The above is a direct quote from the article at the head of this thrtead.

It seems that Abhisit has already commited himself to resign as he has not solved the problem and it appears that he is no nearer to solving it than he was when it started .. Time for him to go for the sake of Thailand, the Thai peoples' lives and the Thai economy. With the correct wording of a statement from him the present government could step down without any further lose of face.

The problem is also the fact that it now seems pretty certain that because of the overwhelming evidence that the EC has the Democrat Party will be dissolved.

So Abhisit would be doing the country a favour by resigning now and letting what remains of the Democrat Party form a new Party to stand for election. This would mean that there will be no disruption to the new parliament.

Ever hear of "innocent until proven guilty" my friend? Overwhelming evidence that the EC has the Democrate Party will be dissolved? Really? You must be privy to inside information the rest of us aren't. Care to share? We have all read the opinion of the EC but that does not mean guilty as charged. Remains to be seen.

[yoshiwara]

'Abhisit, who has been holed up in a military barracks for weeks because of the protests, added: "I have a duty to solve the problem. If I can't I should not be here."'

The above is a direct quote from the article at the head of this thrtead.

It seems that Abhisit has already commited himself to resign as he has not solved the problem and it appears that he is no nearer to solving it than he was when it started .. Time for him to go for the sake of Thailand, the Thai peoples' lives and the Thai economy. With the correct wording of a statement from him the present government could step down without any further lose of face.

The problem is also the fact that it now seems pretty certain that because of the overwhelming evidence that the EC has the Democrat Party will be dissolved.

So Abhisit would be doing the country a favour by resigning now and letting what remains of the Democrat Party form a new Party to stand for election. This would mean that there will be no disruption to the new parliament.

The problem for Thaksin apologists is that support for the EC dissolution of the Democratic party also legitimises previous decisions by the EC.

ie dissolution of the Thaksin parties for electoral corruption.

And most importantly legitimises the status of the GC.

The reds in short are hoist by their own petard.

However, political positions held by red supporters are never dictated by either principle or consistency.

The only guideline at any time is whether a position supports that of advancing Thaksin's interests.

Nothing more and nothing less.

[Born2lag]

'Abhisit, who has been holed up in a military barracks for weeks because of the protests, added: "I have a duty to solve the problem. If I can't I should not be here."'

The above is a direct quote from the article at the head of this thrtead.

It seems that Abhisit has already commited himself to resign as he has not solved the problem and it appears that he is no nearer to solving it than he was when it started .. Time for him to go for the sake of Thailand, the Thai peoples' lives and the Thai economy. With the correct wording of a statement from him the present government could step down without any further lose of face.

Exactly - let's hope this happens swiftly and elections are organised with an outside agency ensuring fairness - and everyone must accept the result - surely Abhisit must declare an election agreement today.

These posts just show a misunderstanding of what "the problem" is. Abhisit stepping down solves nothing.

So true. Abhisit stepping down and dissolving parialment and hold elections WONT SOLVE ANYTHING.. The red shirts would win and the yellow shirts would come back seize important buildings threaten a bank run like last time. Reds would ask Thaksin to be pardon for everything even the killing of innocent people during the drug war. Which always puzzled me why the red shirts kept saying Abhisit a mass murderer. Thaksin coming bak to thailand will civil war, because now that he is back he will use his power to sue the yellow shirts and probably try and assinate key members of the PAD. This will cause the army that has been split to fight amongs each other..

WHy is everyone blaming Abhisit?, hes a better PM then Thaksin. Anyone agree? Atleast he didn't kill civilains as a quota per day, corruption and killing men in south who were stacked into army trucks and died from suffercation.

AND ALL OF THIS can be stop if

Abhisit should fire Anupong and replace him with someone who can do the job. ALso I think Thailand should learn from Israel on how of getting Hamas members like what they did in Dubai. Heres a question for u all ,Does killing thaksin solve anything? WOuld it bring peace to thailand? WHat would the red shirts and pheu thai do without they great leader and banker?

Edited April 24, 2010 by Born2lag

[rixalex]

The problem is also the fact that it now seems pretty certain that because of the overwhelming evidence that the EC has the Democrat Party will be dissolved.

So Abhisit would be doing the country a favour by resigning now and letting what remains of the Democrat Party form a new Party to stand for election. This would mean that there will be no disruption to the new parliament.

The problem for Thaksin apologists is that support for the EC dissolution of the Democratic party also legitimises previous decisions by the EC.

Well spotted yoshiwara. Quite a conundrum for the reds.

[warfie]

I'm 90% with you but there has to be a 'truce' which includes pardoning all (except those 'blacks' who sniped - they are unforgivable and must be caught and punished). It would not be wise to keep pushing the 'Thaksin' button - better to just get to a 3 month election compromise and stop the carnage. However, a caveate, I do think there has to be some sort of 'outside' monitoring of elections.

And what if it can be proven that the grenade throwers are funded by PTP/PPP/TRT MPs or Thaksin, or were acting on orders from the red leaders? They too would then be tried on terrorism charges.

anybody... individuals (not parties) should be held fully accountable

Abhisit/Suthep ordered the army in, with live ammo, and people were killed with the live ammo on April 10th.

Therefore based on this the Democrats should be dissolved and should have terrorism charges against them.

Using live ammo against protestors is designed to "terrorize" them with fear, thats what terror is.

If of course you wish to go down these silly emotional "thoughts for the moment" kind of nonsense.

I am amazed at some of the nonsense spouted on here.

I am amazed at some of the nonsense spouted on here. (by you and others like you)

[kissdani]

Just came back from carefour - had a coffee downstairs where some 10+ Thais (normal, middle class Thais, not what some here call Elitists)they were talking about the situation and by what they said were equally surprised by the military not acting and clearing the mob. In my Thai family the sentiment is about the same and I think the majority of the 61 Million Thai's will think the same.

A relatively small, mostly uneducated, violent group with terrorists among them screaming "democracy", forcing their will upon a country and the military and police lets them do it ....hmmmmm amazing Thailand

:D

You are wrong.

Most Thais want a peaceful, a no-one should get hurt version. Amazing Thailand, right?

And i guess educationwise you aren't that huge brain academic yourself either. So don't mock about others.

[pimay11]

Anyone care to elaborate on why Thaksin has ceased to phone into the red protest? In my opinion he has instructed the red leaders to drive the reds into a crazed frinzy which was his origional plan. He has succeded. Once they reached this point he can disengage the video conferences and only give daily instruction to Nuttawut and co. by phone.

[lannarebirth]

PM's Secretary-General Korbsak Sabhavasu posted a message on his Twitter page that he is no longer the chief negotiator with the red-shirt leaders.

"The prime minister has assigned another person to take over the job," Korbsak said.

So anyone know who the governments new negotiator is? That could be a very telling appointment for some insight into what's going on. I've been maintaining that Abhisit is running the show, despite the limitations and constraints of incompetent and in some cases deceitful allies. So far it looks like Anupong is following Abhisit's stated course, rather than the reverse being the case. That the government negotiators are talking to the Reds, rather than the Army woulld seem to support that view. Who the negotiator is would be telling IMO.

[RussellHantz]

Anupong paints himself in to a corner by announcing what he won't do (use strong measures).

A general should keep all his options available.

Wrong.

A general should cross out those options that are counterproductive to his objectives.

Wrong. A general should keep all options available, and just as important, not broadcast self-limitations to adversaries. The Reds are dangerous adversaries. Some of their members have recently killed and wounded his fellow soldiers and officers. The Reds still maintain disguised combat trained men with combat weapons ready to deploy at a moments notice. You don't offer to play tiddly winks with an armed mob that is ready to ransack your house.

Wrong yet again

A general knows when to fight and when to retreat.

I'm afraid your blood lust for the reds has clouded your judgement.

[siampolee]

''Where in the world is a single-party government called a dictatorship? What's wrong with it when people have faith in me?”

Thaksin Shinawatra quote

Perhaps the general will fight to deny the dream of Thaksin

[pimay11]

Anupong paints himself in to a corner by announcing what he won't do (use strong measures).

A general should keep all his options available.

Wrong.

A general should cross out those options that are counterproductive to his objectives.

Wrong. A general should keep all options available, and just as important, not broadcast self-limitations to adversaries. The Reds are dangerous adversaries. Some of their members have recently killed and wounded his fellow soldiers and officers. The Reds still maintain disguised combat trained men with combat weapons ready to deploy at a moments notice. You don't offer to play tiddly winks with an armed mob that is ready to ransack your house.

Wrong yet again

A general knows when to fight and when to retreat.

I'm afraid your blood lust for the reds has clouded your judgement.

Brahamburgers is spot on. It is obvious that RusellHantz knows nothing about military rules of engagement. I am not advocating any blood lust. But a commander NEVER publicly rules out any options when dealing with any adversary. If he/she does it puts them at a strategic disadvantage.

[zorm999]

The problem is also the fact that it now seems pretty certain that because of the overwhelming evidence that the EC has the Democrat Party will be dissolved.

So Abhisit would be doing the country a favour by resigning now and letting what remains of the Democrat Party form a new Party to stand for election. This would mean that there will be no disruption to the new parliament.

The problem for Thaksin apologists is that support for the EC dissolution of the Democratic party also legitimises previous decisions by the EC.

Well spotted yoshiwara. Quite a conundrum for the reds.

The reds have a habit of doing this. They were even calling on the police to arrest multi-color shirt protesters the other day because they were breaking the law under the current state of emergency by gathering in groups of more than 5! On the one hand the reds condemn the police, electoral commission, courts, army as being one-sided and illegitimate, then they call on those bodies to support them. They expect the government, army and police to uphold the law when it suits them, but then cry foul when these same authorities suggest that the reds need to change their own illegal actions. Double standards indeed!

[traderjm]

Here is an article from the "Straight Times" Singapore http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=11542 which is of course totally "un-bias "

and only "slightly" leans towards their old friend Thaksin

Here is an idea - ask the Singapore government to take over and solve the problem - with their army over here - 2 hours max and Bangkok would be clean again

Only problem is that they would call old Thaksin back to continue doing business with him .... and would insist in a law against chewing gum ...

But you see that the Straight Times has said what The Nation would never say It's not what Abhisit wants it's what the Elite (Amataya) behind him wants.

Coming from a red supporter whose wants are dictated explicitly by what Thaksin wants, your comments are a laugh a minute.

Really? A laugh a minute? I actually find his comments pretty boring pedantic and quite frankly a waste of time to read.. hence I try to avoid them.. Termad is fast on his/her way to the ignore file another that has no idea what the meaning of the word discussion is, wonder why so many of the red supporters fall into that same category.. don't get me wrong some of the Yellow Farangs do as well but nowhere near as many

[RussellHantz]

Brahamburgers is spot on. It is obvious that RusellHantz knows nothing about military rules of engagement. I am not advocating any blood lust. But a commander NEVER publicly rules out any options when dealing with any adversary. If he/she does it puts them at a strategic disadvantage.

You both clearly have no idea about military strategy.

Interestingly enough, after Anupong stopped with his sabre rattling, both sides are returning to the negotiating table. Thats a step in the right direction. Anupongs overall strategy isn't to annihilate his opponent, its bring stability.

There are some here that are itching for a get tough approach, but even a military commander knows that will only make things worse.

A good military strategist can and will say whatever he wants, in public or in private, in order to control or manipulate how his enemy thinks or feels. He can pretend he is weak, pretend he is strong, bluffing, etc into drawing in a particular response.

[RussellHantz]

Termad is fast on his/her way to the ignore file another that has no idea what the meaning of the word discussion is, wonder why so many of the red supporters fall into that same category.. don't get me wrong some of the Yellow Farangs do as well but nowhere near as many

Well I hope you include yourself in that same category, since every second post of yours seems to be a moan fest about your "ignore list".

[rixalex]

Interestingly enough, after Anupong stopped with his sabre rattling, both sides are returning to the negotiating table.

It was only the red side that left the negotiating table and at this stage they still haven't returned - they've simply made a different demand.

[RussellHantz]

Interestingly enough, after Anupong stopped with his sabre rattling, both sides are returning to the negotiating table.

It was only the red side that left the negotiating table and at this stage they still haven't returned - they've simply made a different demand.

Well its a step in the right direction. Anupong made the right move - he backed off and gave enough room for talks to start again.

Not everyone will agree with Anupongs decision, particularly the blood hungry, 'kill em all' brigade.

[way2muchcoffee]

Interestingly enough, after Anupong stopped with his sabre rattling, both sides are returning to the negotiating table.

It was only the red side that left the negotiating table and at this stage they still haven't returned - they've simply made a different demand.

Well its a step in the right direction. Anupong made the right move - he backed off and gave enough room for talks to start again.

Not everyone will agree with Anupongs decision, particularly the blood hungry, 'kill em all' brigade.

That is ludicrous. What 'kill em all' brigade? There are people who would like to see the illegal protesters dispersed using the least possible force and avoiding unnecessary violence at all costs. These demonstrations are causing immense hardship to a great many people, so it is natural that many would want the protests to end. But what is this 'kill em all' brigade you are referring to?

Edited April 24, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[rixalex]

Anupong made the right move - he backed off and gave enough room for talks to start again.

You are being deliberately misleading. It wasn't a change in approach from Anupong that drove the reds from the negotiating table - they left of their own accord, and as i say, they still haven't returned.

[RussellHantz]

That is ludicrous. What 'kill em all' brigade? There are people who would like to see the illegal protesters dispersed using the least possible force and avoiding unnecessary violence at all costs. These demonstrations are causing hardship to a great many people so it is natural that many would want the protests to end. But what is this 'kill em all' brigade you are referring to?

I am referring to some of the hardline anti-reds, who have been advocating a firm (=violent) military response to "resolve" things, and apparently will not be satisfied with anything less than blood.