Thai Protesters, Army Make Tentative Peace Overtures

[way2muchcoffee]

That is ludicrous. What 'kill em all' brigade? There are people who would like to see the illegal protesters dispersed using the least possible force and avoiding unnecessary violence at all costs. These demonstrations are causing hardship to a great many people so it is natural that many would want the protests to end. But what is this 'kill em all' brigade you are referring to?

I am referring to some of the hardline anti-reds, who have been advocating a firm (=violent) military response to "resolve" things, and apparently will not be satisfied with anything less than blood.

I honestly haven't seen much of that here.

[RussellHantz]

Anupong made the right move - he backed off and gave enough room for talks to start again.

You are being deliberately misleading. It wasn't a change in approach from Anupong that drove the reds from the negotiating table - they left of their own accord, and as i say, they still haven't returned.

Yes, you were correct in pointing that out in your prior post.

However, my point was that Anupong change of tune has (I believe) helped reduce the tension rather than antagonise, and hopefully we will see some more progress as the negotiations proceed (behind closed doors).

[321niti123]

How does this improve the situation? So they are JUST GONNA let the red shirts n yellow shirts kill each other?

No longer red and yellow, its now red and multicolored.

Multicolored is kinda undemocratic though force us civilians to take sides, cuz if you dont wear red you can be seen as immediately multicolored, better just to stay home nowadays. And I agree with one of the previous comments this is certainly no longer the land of smiles.

[quiksilva]

Thai PM rejects anti-government protesters' compromise

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Saturday rejected a compromise offer from anti-government "Red Shirts", who had said they would end weeks of protests if polls were called in 30 days.

"No, I reject it. Because they use violence and intimidation I cannot accept this," Abhisit said of the Reds' offer which was a softening of their earlier demands for snap polls.

"The 30-day ultimatum is not an issue. The dissolution (of parliament) must be done for the benefit of the entire country, not just for the Red Shirts, and it must be done at the right time," he said.

The international community has urged both sides on Thailand's political divide to find a negotiated solution to end weeks of protests that have been punctuated by deadly clashes leaving 26 dead and hundreds injured.

"The 30-day concession is just aimed at getting the attention of foreign media. I don't think it is the answer to the problems," Abhisit said.

"Tomorrow everything will become more clear when I and the army chief will jointly appear on my weekly television address."

"Negotiations must be aimed at finding a solution for the whole country, not just the Red Shirts, they are just part of society," he added. "We have to uphold the rule of law."

If I was Red I wouldn't hold my breath for the army to save me just yet..

[chadintheusa]

How does this improve the situation? So they are JUST GONNA let the red shirts n yellow shirts kill each other?

No longer red and yellow, its now red and multicolored.

Multicolored is kinda undemocratic though force us civilians to take sides, cuz if you dont wear red you can be seen as immediately multicolored, better just to stay home nowadays. And I agree with one of the previous comments this is certainly no longer the land of smiles.

Well they say ignorance is bliss, and there seem to be plenty of ignorant people in the downtown area, so many smiles. You just won't find them on people who used to work near central world.

[gotglue]

That is ludicrous. What 'kill em all' brigade? There are people who would like to see the illegal protesters dispersed using the least possible force and avoiding unnecessary violence at all costs. These demonstrations are causing hardship to a great many people so it is natural that many would want the protests to end. But what is this 'kill em all' brigade you are referring to?

I am referring to some of the hardline anti-reds, who have been advocating a firm (=violent) military response to "resolve" things, and apparently will not be satisfied with anything less than blood.

I honestly haven't seen much of that here.

you haven't seen much of that here?......i take it you can read, or maybe you're one of these "kill em' all" types and see nothing wrong with bloodshed.

[hoilai]

......"logic and competence" are not part of life here and probably will never be.

May I add "personal responsibility." In farangland there's an old saying, 'a man is as good as his word' .....is there a similar concept here in Thailand?

Very good point - forgot that one see Thais behind the wheel of a car or in politics or in ......

What I'd like to see is legislation which compels a man who has sired a child, to take responsibility for that child - even if he splits from the mother. Currently, there's no compulsion, legal or moral, for that happening in Thailand.

The other thing that doesn't exist here but needs to be formally instated is a law which has penalties for harboring a fugitive.

Sorry to get off-topic, though the 2nd item (mentioned just above) does apply somewhat to the topic.

rhetorics and semantics apply differently in different context, whether in farangland or thailand.

"yellow", the colour, to some means dirty yellow while to others mean lemon yellow.

"red" to some means crimson red whilst to others mean bloody mary red.

when two madmen in an asylum engage in "serious" conversation between themselves where one claims he is the Lord God engaged in conversation with the other madman in his dream, the latter might just believe the former,contextually and otherwise.

after all else is said and done here, be it pro- or anti-red or yellow, one believes that one person's comment that man, anywhere in the world, is till a member of the biological specie and can only react to any situation like any biological specie does, with all its warts and all.

Edited April 24, 2010 by hoilai

[MKAsok]

Jatuporn has apparently just announced a revocation of last night's offer to the Government from the stage. Now demanding immediate dissolution again (via Twitter).

EDIT: Jatuporn telling the crowd not to wear red any more to confuse the authorities.

Edited April 24, 2010 by MKAsok

[slapout]

What is the approximate head count of those within the self built fort/barricade. For a while the numbers were declining fairly rapidly, after the holidays, if news accounts were true. Hope they left an avenue of escape/retreat open for the children and women, as the macho men will hold the lines for sure. Is the army still protecting Pat Pong from potential ravage/pillage?

Not wishing the reds as a group, ill will, but do hope the decrease in numbers continue.

[traderjm]

That is ludicrous. What 'kill em all' brigade? There are people who would like to see the illegal protesters dispersed using the least possible force and avoiding unnecessary violence at all costs. These demonstrations are causing hardship to a great many people so it is natural that many would want the protests to end. But what is this 'kill em all' brigade you are referring to?

I am referring to some of the hardline anti-reds, who have been advocating a firm (=violent) military response to "resolve" things, and apparently will not be satisfied with anything less than blood.

"Not satisfied with anything less than blood, now help me out here are you referring to TV anti-red posters or the RED leadership, cause it sure sounds like their attitude

[commons]

back to square one. hate speech is on full throttle. here are some recent tweets by terryfrd

http://twitter.com/terryfrd

# Nattawud says there is a special unit to deal with leaders. Jatuporn always shows no fear, often sarcastic. 1 minute ago via TweetDeck

#

Jatuporn says they will have 12,000 motorcycle heroes to resist on frontlines. Troops are to be ready to go within 1 hour of order. 2 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Jatuporn has detailed information about units to be involved. Says some do not have crowd dispersal equipment, only M16s, etc. 3 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Police will go first, soldiers next, Jatuporn says. Preparations of troops supposed to be finished today, but delayed until tomorrow. 5 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

jatuporn is revealing a conversation between Abhisit and Anupong this afternoon. Spies at work again. 6 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

No one knows what the King will say, Jatuporn says, so govt cannot take chances. (Sounds like dangerous talk, doesn't it?) 7 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Govt, jatuporn says, is under extreme pressure. Must finish dispersal by Monday evening before King has audience with judges. 8 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

PM Abhisit, you will no longer have anyway of knowing who is a red shirt. 9 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

We are now multi-coloured, wear anything you want, but our hearts are still red: jatuporn 10 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Our proposal of last night is hearby revoked. Immediate dissolution is our demand. Jatuporn. 12 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Jatuporn:. Police and troops in Central World. Leave immediately. Owners of Central World, it you want your building intact, get them out 13 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Keep communications open, he says, and watch for infiltrators. Reds throughout the country, come here to Ratchaprasong. 15 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Nattawud is very very good at this, incidentally. Excellent at rallying the forces. 16 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

With our media silenced, everyone should spread the word. Resist immediately using passive resistance. 17 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Nattawud says they should resist passively and engage the security forces in conversation for a couple of days. 18 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Nattawud says that reds throughout the country should watch troop and police movements.Use the Khonkaen model and stop them 19 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

We have six lines of defence already, nattawud says. 2,000 Motorcycle volunteers are needed at each point, he says. 21 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Red remains colour inside rally site, nattawud says. Vendors should not despair. When this is over, sales will be brisk. 22 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Those of you having only red to wear tonight,keep your red clothes on for one more day.Let's not overdo it. 23 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Nattawud, says this will only be temporary, until we defeat the government. 24 minutes ago via TweetDeck

# Troops are varying their movements, trying to make it difficult for us to react. From no on, our "fighters" will no longer wear red. 25 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Nattawud says armed troops are actively trying to prevent protestors for going to Ratchaprasong. 26 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Instead, Nattaawud, he is preparing forces for dispersal within 2 days. 27 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

It was a daring attempt to get both sides to take a step back. PM did not have courage to do it. 28 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

(It's getting hard to get a steady signal from PTV) Our proposal was not made out of weakness or fear. Just the opposite. 30 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

PM has ordered the end to negotiations with the UDD. Thus we are reverting to our original stance: immediate dissolution. 32 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Nattawud explains new strategy. It is now clear that Abhisit has closed the door on our 30 day house dissolution proposal. 33 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Veera: A change in strategy is necessary, but it will still be peaceful - something all Thais accept. 34 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Veera says that unfortunately the government has not responded positively. Govt rep was suddenly ordered to end negotiations. 36 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Yesterday's proposals for negotiation were intended to save lives, Veera says. Allowed govt 30 + 60 = 90 days. 37 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

Veera is making announcement from Red stage, flanked by core leaders. 40 minutes ago via TweetDeck

#

RT @veen_NT: Porntiwa: Com Ministry to meet Rajprasong biz group next week to help affected businesses / how bout w. Civil Court injunction? about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck

#

Red speaker announcing the menu for tonight and the tents where the various entrees are being served. Need a helmet? 5 have been donated. about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck

#

@yellowdaisygirl According to the young man on the red stage, think he's a high-ranking guard,it's Ratchaprasong. about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck in reply to yellowdaisygirl

#

@yellowdaisygirl Ekamai certainly seems secure, esp as you get further into the soi away from Sukhumvit. (Or is that a trick question?) about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck in reply to yellowdaisygirl

#

Same speaker: In red marches, leaders go first. about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck

#

Same speaker:PAD organised Oct 7 march with innocents in front, armed guards in back. Their ping pong bomb killed Nong Bo, not gas cannister about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

#

From red stage: (Actor friend of Methi) Why is red protest never hit by M79 grenades? Because no one hates us. about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

#

A mass back, shoulder massage at Ratchaprasong to do away with those aches and pains. Only massage, the speaker warns. about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

#

@qandrew This isn't your standard mudslinging. It' much more vicious, but then they go on to extol their peaceful campaign for democracy. about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck in reply to qandrew

# @qandrew Exactly. How can there be a fair election when Abhisit is being vilified endlessly as a murderer on red stage? about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck in reply to qandrew

#

Adisorn, holding up loincloth on red stage: "Abhisit, take this phakhawma and hang yourself." Guess he doesn't want 2 be outdone by Dr Weng about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

#

Reds have a song for Suryayud Chulanont. It's called Naa Ai (Shameful). Adisorn is singing it now on red stage. about 2 hours ago via TweetDeck

[hoilai]

Here is an article from the "Straight Times" Singapore http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=11542 which is of course totally "un-bias "

and only "slightly" leans towards their old friend Thaksin

Here is an idea - ask the Singapore government to take over and solve the problem - with their army over here - 2 hours max and Bangkok would be clean again

Only problem is that they would call old Thaksin back to continue doing business with him .... and would insist in a law against chewing gum ...

But you see that the Straight Times has said what The Nation would never say It's not what Abhisit wants it's what the Elite (Amataya) behind him wants.

The Straight Times is about as unstraight as they come. They are a lap dog press to the ruling familiy. Of course they would be pro Mr. T and agree with whatever his adgenda is.

would that mean the straight times will gender-bend so that they can buy more thai satellites from thaksin and hence more thai state secrets????

am sure thaksin would love to recover his lost billions again through such a sale and the buyer would definitely love to deal with him aagain.....

[RussellHantz]

That is ludicrous. What 'kill em all' brigade? There are people who would like to see the illegal protesters dispersed using the least possible force and avoiding unnecessary violence at all costs. These demonstrations are causing hardship to a great many people so it is natural that many would want the protests to end. But what is this 'kill em all' brigade you are referring to?

I am referring to some of the hardline anti-reds, who have been advocating a firm (=violent) military response to "resolve" things, and apparently will not be satisfied with anything less than blood.

"Not satisfied with anything less than blood, now help me out here are you referring to TV anti-red posters or the RED leadership, cause it sure sounds like their attitude

Do you have reading problems ? I though I made it quite clear in the first 10 words of my previous post that I was referring the the anti-red posters.

[rabo]

May I add "personal responsibility." In farangland there's an old saying, 'a man is as good as his word' .....is there a similar concept here in Thailand?

Phoot jing, tham jing

[traderjm]

That is ludicrous. What 'kill em all' brigade? There are people who would like to see the illegal protesters dispersed using the least possible force and avoiding unnecessary violence at all costs. These demonstrations are causing hardship to a great many people so it is natural that many would want the protests to end. But what is this 'kill em all' brigade you are referring to?

I am referring to some of the hardline anti-reds, who have been advocating a firm (=violent) military response to "resolve" things, and apparently will not be satisfied with anything less than blood.

"Not satisfied with anything less than blood, now help me out here are you referring to TV anti-red posters or the RED leadership, cause it sure sounds like their attitude

Do you have reading problems ? I though I made it quite clear in the first 10 words of my previous post that I was referring the the anti-red posters.

Haha, I see my indirect humor was lost on you.. sorry didn't think it was that hard to follow... carry on with your sabre rattling

[RussellHantz]

Hmmm, the PM is back to doing what he does best, being a stubborn mule.

[kuffki]

Hmmm, the PM is back to doing what he does best, being a stubborn mule.

Hmm NO

Accepting ultimatums from a bunch of terrorist is madness.

They have not even made an attempt to compromise to meet half way.

It seems to be only 1 way the red way and why should anyone accept it? because they holding city as a hostage?

[RussellHantz]

Haha, I see my indirect humor was lost on you..

I did pick up on it, but those jokes get rather tedious. There are like 500 of those type "jokes" on here a day.

[brahmburgers]

Thanks Commons (I think?) for the many tweet updates.

I can't quite decipher them. Sounds like a bunch of jibberish from scared & desperate people with a maturity level of a 4 yr old. (no offense to 4 year olds).

Come to think of it, sounds a bit like Jim Jones' rambling to his flock, while his wife was mixing arsenic with the cool aid to serve to everyone. .....on a hot afternoon near Georgetown, northern South America, about 30 years ago.

[FreedomDude]

http://twitter.com/terryfrd

# Nattawud...........

Very interesting Twitter site. Thanks for the link.

[RussellHantz]

Come to think of it, sounds a bit like Jim Jones' rambling to his flock, while his wife was mixing arsenic with the cool aid to serve to everyone. .....on a hot afternoon near Georgetown, northern South America, about 30 years ago.

There you go again with your delusions of death.

[rabo]

Before buying Jatuporn's line the army is coming now, I wanted to understand today's headline "Army ready to regain Ratchaprasong when situation permits"

So what does it mean? Courteously TNA via TV, this is all cut and paste.

Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd, army spokesman said Saturday that soldiers are ready to regain the area when the situation permits

The plan

Protests have now spread to a number of provinces nationwide.

Protests upcountry can still be controlled by the government.

Dispersing the crowd at Ratchaprasong could fuel protests taking place in the provinces

Thus: the government and CRES will explain to the upcountry public so they understand

Then: Convince as many innocent people as possible to leave Ratchaprasong so government forces can disperse the protesters

His conclusion

Dispersing the protesters, or even suppressing them, is not appropriate now, but with several new measures, it is "possible that we could achieve that target," said Col Sansern.

LOL, Western politicians would turn green with envy

Edited April 24, 2010 by rabo

[kuffki]

Before buying Jatuporn's line the army is coming tonight, I wanted to understand today's headline "Army ready to regain Ratchaprasong when situation permits"

So what does it mean? Courteously TNA via TV, this is all cut and paste.

Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd, army spokesman said Saturday that soldiers are ready to regain the area when the situation permits

The plan

Protests have now spread to a number of provinces nationwide.

Protests upcountry can still be controlled by the government.

Dispersing the crowd at Ratchaprasong could fuel protests taking place in the provinces

Thus: the government and CRES will explain to the upcountry public so they understand

Then: Convince as many innocent people as possible to leave Ratchaprasong so government forces can disperse the protesters

His conclusion

Dispersing the protesters, or even suppressing them, is not appropriate now, but with several new measures, it is "possible that we could achieve that target," said Col Sansern.

LOL, Western politicians would turn green with envy

So to summarize

Army is for auction to the highest bidder or best offers

[brahmburgers]

Come to think of it, sounds a bit like Jim Jones' rambling to his flock, while his wife was mixing arsenic with the cool aid to serve to everyone. .....on a hot afternoon near Georgetown, northern South America, about 30 years ago.

There you go again with your delusions of death.

I could talk about Thais driving, and that might also be termed 'delusions of death' by you, as on any given day, about 33 Thais die in hwy collisions.

A delusion is a warped thought process about something that is not real, yet thinking it's real. For two days of the protest, there have been deaths. To assume there will be more deaths is delusional?

Actually, I believe the worst is yet to come. I hope I'm wrong, and the protesters will go home, but all indications are the hard core who are staying will be in for a serious bruising. Security personnel and some onlookers will also suffer. All have friends, relatives and others who care for them. I don't hope for a bloody confrontation, but see it as nearly inevitable. ....and I see the Reds as being the antagonizers - essentially asking for blood letting and mayhem. If you see it another way, that's your prerogative.

[RussellHantz]

Come to think of it, sounds a bit like Jim Jones' rambling to his flock, while his wife was mixing arsenic with the cool aid to serve to everyone. .....on a hot afternoon near Georgetown, northern South America, about 30 years ago.

There you go again with your delusions of death.

I could talk about Thais driving, and that might also be termed 'delusions of death' by you, as on any given day, about 33 Thais die in hwy collisions.

A delusion is a warped thought process about something that is not real, yet thinking it's real. For two days of the protest, there have been deaths. To assume there will be more deaths is delusional?

Actually, I believe the worst is yet to come. I hope I'm wrong, and the protesters will go home, but all indications are the hard core who are staying will be in for a serious bruising. Security personnel and some onlookers will also suffer. All have friends, relatives and others who care for them. I don't hope for a bloody confrontation, but see it as nearly inevitable. ....and I see the Reds as being the antagonizers - essentially asking for blood letting and mayhem. If you see it another way, that's your prerogative.

Your rhetoric has a grim preoccupation with red deaths, and my feeling is that you believe that they somehow deserve to be killed, or at least it would "serve them right".

Edited April 24, 2010 by RussellHantz

[kentucky]

So if there are elections in 90 days (as proposed by the reds), does that mean the PTP will be banned for electoral fraud in about 12 months?

I don't know about the PTP being banned for electoral fraud but I don't see much point in the Democrats standing for election in 90 days as the Democrat Party will most probably be dissolved shortly after that.

IF they are dissolved, it will most probably be dissolved in a year's time.

Which will be after the elections at the end of this year.

Edited April 24, 2010 by kentucky

[chadintheusa]

So if there are elections in 90 days (as proposed by the reds), does that mean the PTP will be banned for electoral fraud in about 12 months?

I don't know about the PTP being banned for electoral fraud but I don't see much point in the Democrats standing for election in 90 days as the Democrat Party will most probably be dissolved shortly after that.

IF they are dissolved, it will most probably be dissolved in a year's time.

Which will be after the elections at the end of this year.

It would be sensible for them to run under a new name in the next election and beat the election commission to the punch. It's just a name after all. TRT, PPP, and PTP have just been different names for essentially the same party. Disbanding on their own should allow them to keep whatever seats they win in the next election.

[kentucky]

Hmmm, the PM is back to doing what he does best, being a stubborn mule.

Hmmm, the red leaders are back to doing what they do best, flip-flop.

[brahmburgers]

Come to think of it, sounds a bit like Jim Jones' rambling to his flock, while his wife was mixing arsenic with the cool aid to serve to everyone. .....on a hot afternoon near Georgetown, northern South America, about 30 years ago.

There you go again with your delusions of death.

I could talk about Thais driving, and that might also be termed 'delusions of death' by you, as on any given day, about 33 Thais die in hwy collisions.

A delusion is a warped thought process about something that is not real, yet thinking it's real. For two days of the protest, there have been deaths. To assume there will be more deaths is delusional?

Actually, I believe the worst is yet to come. I hope I'm wrong, and the protesters will go home, but all indications are the hard core who are staying will be in for a serious bruising. Security personnel and some onlookers will also suffer. All have friends, relatives and others who care for them. I don't hope for a bloody confrontation, but see it as nearly inevitable. ....and I see the Reds as being the antagonizers - essentially asking for blood letting and mayhem. If you see it another way, that's your prerogative.

Your rhetoric has a grim preoccupation with red deaths, and my feeling is that you believe that they somehow deserve to be killed, or at least it would "serve them right".

I'd have to agree - in regard to Red members/associates who responded to rubber bullets (mostly fired upwards) ...with real bullets and grenades. Yes, death penalty for those who shoot security personnel doing their duty would be appropriate - particularly if its shown those particular security forces were not using lethal force when they were killed.

I would also support strong measures (at least long prison sentences) for any people who were proven to have lobbed grenades which killed innocent observers and/or pedestrians. Evidence strongly indicates that some people among the Red crowd fired lethal weapons, both on April 10th and on April 22nd. No country can tolerate grenades being fired in to crowds. Anyone convicted of doing so should be punished severely.

Edited April 24, 2010 by brahmburgers

[RussellHantz]

I'd have to agree - in regard to Red members/associates who responded to rubber bullets (mostly fired upwards) ...with real bullets and grenades. Yes, death penalty for those who shoot security personnel doing their duty would be appropriate - particularly if its shown those particular security forces were not using lethal force when they were killed.

I would also support strong measures (at least long prison sentences) for any people who were proven to have lobbed grenades which killed innocent observers and/or pedestrians. Evidence strongly indicates that some people among the Red crowd fired lethal weapons, both on April 10th and on April 22nd. No country can tolerate grenades being fired in to crowds. Anyone convicted of doing so should be punished severely.

Don't try and twist things for political points.

You know very well I was referring to the red protesters, not what the PM describes as the terrorists.

If you can't give a straight answer, fine.