Thai Protesters Brace For Crackdown As Compromise Rejected

[eggomaniac]

Don't be surprised if this protest drags on for another week. The military have been reluctant to use force so far, so it is hard to imagine that in the next 48 hours they will launch an offensive. The rhetoric being used by the red leaders may just be to whip up support among those at the protest site and attempt to get more people to join them. It may also be an attempt to prevent people from leaving as they tighten security at their barricades. Are those barricade for keeping police out, or protesters in? If they drop the red shirts it may be a ploy to make their numbers look bigger, now anyone in the downtown can be labeled as a protester when they do a head count because there is no way to tell the difference anymore. Either there is a traitor in the government spilling all the details of the operation, in which case I'm sure the military is trying to root them out, maybe by issuing false information to see where it ends up, or maybe the red leaders are just making things up to create panic and fear. People who are afraid are easier to control after all.

Don't be surprized if the protest drags on for another century is more like it. Just LOOK at the past 80 years! sheesh

[cdnmatt]

if it comes down to a civil war, If will be along time till thailand will be place people will want to come to, Lets hope they come to some sort of a agreement that is good for all the hard working Thai people.

I think the chance of a civil war is about zero. If it does get out of hand, the King will step in, which will resolve things.

[kissdani]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

No doubt were you PM you would always carry a white flag and BYOV - bring your own vaseline.

One of the jobs of a PM is to stand up to the self declared enemies of the state.

Your job as Thai PM is it to unite the people and not just declaring the opposition to enemies of the state. That is what dictators do.

A good PM is able to convince people from all sides that he is a capable man. Abhisit failed to do so. He thinks he can score points with suppression, ignorance, censorship, violent crackdowns and a smirk in the face.

[humfurry]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

No doubt were you PM you would always carry a white flag and BYOV - bring your own vaseline.

One of the jobs of a PM is to stand up to the self declared enemies of the state.

Your job as Thai PM is it to unite the people and not just declaring the opposition to enemies of the state. That is what dictators do.

A good PM is able to convince people from all sides that he is a capable man. Abhisit failed to do so. He thinks he can score points with suppression, ignorance, censorship, violent crackdowns and a smirk in the face.

OK, now enlighten us an accurate description of the Red leadership?

[draftvader]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

No doubt were you PM you would always carry a white flag and BYOV - bring your own vaseline.

One of the jobs of a PM is to stand up to the self declared enemies of the state.

Your job as Thai PM is it to unite the people and not just declaring the opposition to enemies of the state. That is what dictators do.

A good PM is able to convince people from all sides that he is a capable man. Abhisit failed to do so. He thinks he can score points with suppression, ignorance, censorship, violent crackdowns and a smirk in the face.

..and you get everything you want every time you negotiate? I've spent 14 years in high-end corporate negotiation and had to utilise multiple factors to gain agreement. People see negotiation as a tug-of-war, yet it is really more like a graphic equaliser that you are trying to tune to create a rounded sound. You constantly have to tweak, and changing one frequency affects the response of another. If you never moved the bass from maximum you will never get rid of that awful buzzing noise.

My best analogies come after my 2nd cup of coffee....sorry still only halfway down cup 1.

[jackr]

If the red shirts were having their revolution in Burma, the world would be applauding their bravery.

Of course, but one would be a little naive to compare the scenario. Thailand is already successful yet is being brought down by a mob of paid nutters.

[Mekhong]

I can only imagine long prison sentences for the likes of Veera, Weng, Nattawut, Jatuporn, Arisman and the other terrorist leaders.

Or will they join their Capo di tutti Capo in Uganda, Montenegro or some other corrupt rat hole?

That's if their rotten lives are spared ...

[lensta]

This is not our ( Farangs ) problem, to spout such hatred towards either group could have severe repercussions.

I guess you are just a tourist. But as I have a wife and children born in Thailand which means extended family and I own businesses here and have assets here and had, NOTE the word HAD planned to spend the balance of my life here it VERY much is my problem as well. I can agree that expressing hate towards either group is pointless and counter productive but to say it's not our problem is spoken like a person with little to nothing invested in this country

Since 1990 actually, full time.

I understand that you may be feeling this more than I do, but this blatant hatred of the Redshirts by well to do Farangs does nothing but antagonize, I am dumbfounded by the attitudes of some posters here.

I'll bow out now and let you keyboard warriors slug it out till the bitter end.

If some of you guys spouted off in real life like you are willing to do anonymously..........

Then again, you wouldn't do it would you.

Peace.

I agree as i said I don't see hatred against either or any group of people as being productive, just unsure how you can say it's NOT our problem.. it clearly is for me..

I agree with your other points as well.. too many are too brave behind the screen... and will slug it out forever even when this round is over

I also live here, am married to a Thai and have a business here. It may very well affect you but you can write on this forum until you are blue in the face but you can't do anything about the situation, nothing, zero, zip.

[eeconomist]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

Yes, and we know why this govt, formed by a alliance of minority groups after the courts invalidated the elected party's majority, is so resistant to elections and now to a poll.

It is not like the Democrats originally came into power with a military coup and then a court decision, totally circumventing the public's votes, is it?

At best, the Democrats, military coup leaders, and yellows are right about Thaksin, but they chose to fight him using the same corrupt tactics. At worst, they are the real problem.

In either case, their coup and subsequent attempts to override the populist vote proves they are not after democracy.

They (coup military leaders) broke the law with the coup and them rewrote the law to give themselves amnesty.

They (yellows) used mass demonstrations to force a legitimately elected government (Samak) to hold an election.

They used the courts for political reasons to invalidate the majority of pro-Thaksin PMs to get Abhisit into power.

And now they are hypocritically saying the Red's demonstrations are wrong and the reds are criminals....speaking of hypocrisy.

The Democrats and yellow are a joke. Everything they say are lies. If Thaksin was bad, then these people are just evil judging by their actions. Claims of good intentions, or even good intentions with these evil and manipulative actions shows who is really the more desperate and corrupt group here.

You forgot to add that the coup itself was already illegal and the coup leaders should be jailed.

Then the coup leaders even got the cheek to change the constitution to pordon themselves and punish TRT under retrospective law!!

What a joke 555555

Amazing Thailand!!!

[LevelHead]

thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com - 24 APRIL 2010 -

High Tension In Bangkok - 3 up-dates -

Vejjajiva government has decided to crush the red shirts. Tension is very high and the red shirt leadership is urging supporters to be prepared.

Abhisit has personally rejected negotiations: “Thai TV says Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has rejected protesters’ demand he dissolve Parliament in 30 days to end a political crisis that has paralyzed the country.”

Update: “Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Saturday rejected scaled-back demands that he dissolve Parliament in 30 days, prompting anti-government protesters to pull out of negotiations to end the political crisis gripping the country. The breakdown dashed hopes for an imminent peaceful resolution to the deadlock, which has been punctuated by increasing hostility and bloody street violence.”

Al Jazeera reports: “Abhisit Vejjajiva, the Thai prime minister, has rejected an offer of compromise with so-called red shirt protesters who have rallied for the dissolution of government for the past six weeks.” It is added that: “Abhisit said that he could not accept the offer because the red shirts ‘use violence and intimidation’. He said: “The 30-day ultimatum is not an issue. The dissolution [of parliament] must be done for the benefit of the entire country, not just for the red shirts, and it must be done at the right time…”.

It looks like the hardliners have had a victory within the government and that the ever stubborn Abhisit has had his way.

Update 1: The Bangkok Post has Abhisit saying this of the red shirts’ proffered compromise: “No, I reject it.”

In The Nation, Thammasat University historian Thanet Aphornsuvan said that “the principles of non-violence may not be enough to prevent them from ‘being crushed by the Army’,” and added that “this was because the same method – an appeal for non-violence – had never worked in the past in Thailand.”

Reflecting his pessimism on negotiations, Gothom Arya of Mahidol University said in the same article of Prime Minister Abhisit: “Peace is in his hands. It’s up to him to make it, alive or dead…”. He seemed pessimistic however.

Update 2: The Bangkok Post reports on an important piece being put in place prior to a crackdown on the red shirts. Recall that army chief Anupong Paojinda has long said that he would reject an unlawful order to crackdown on the red shirts and that earlier in the week the Civil Court issued a ruling on the legality of a crackdown that was interpreted in different ways. Now the Post reports that to “erase public doubt, Thailand’s Civil Court on Saturday said the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) can indeed disperse anti-government protesters now occupying Bangkok’s prime business district ‘if necessary’, but emphasised that it must be ‘carried out in line with international standards’.”

Now even when the state kills people it claims to have done so “in line with international standards.” Perhaps this provides Anupong with the legal basis for action against the red shirts.

Another part of the government’s actions against the red shirts and preparing for a crackdown likely involves unstated “evidence” against red shirts in alleged violent acts. This is a common action in previous military actions that have led to bloodshed. A member of the opponents’ camp is pushed forward, in custody, and is said to have spilled the beans. This time, it involves an actor and the Department of Special Investigation. PPT has pointed out previously that DSI has been highly politicized. Now DSI has taken to parading alleged criminals and holding news conferences and television spectacles making grand and unsupported accusations. The Nation has an account of the arrest and interrogation of Methi Amornwuthikul, who is claimed to be a “prominent red shirt.” Methi is a red shirt, but an odd character and was previously in the media for his semi-nud_e modeling and more recently for swinging punches at a Puea Thai Party campaign worker (see the video of the latter incident here).

With yellow shirts, now in multi-colors rallying each day in numbers as high as 10,000 to 15,000, most of the elements for a crackdown that can be “justified” are in place. The threat to crush the red shirts appears ever more likely to be put in train. PPT assumes that the okay from the palace is already in place.

Update 2: The Nation leads with the Methi story and red shirt denials. The critical point for PPT is, however, the use of the alleged confession, with Democrat Party spokesman Buranaj Smutharaks claiming that “Methee’s confession confirmed a belief that acts of sabotage on April 10 were committed by the red shirts, not a ‘third party’.” The government’s role in killings and injuries is now totally whitewashed for the Democrat Party and the public is expected to believe – and many yellow shirts will – that the red shirts killed their own.

Update 3: Like many others, PPT is hearing many rumors of what caused the proposed negotiations/compromise to fall apart. On story has to do with Sukhumbhand Paribatra talking and reaching something of an agreement with red shirts and, it is said, Thaksin Shinawatra in Brunei. That fell apart because of hardline resistance from the yellow-shirt wing of the Democrat Party including Korn Chatikavanij, some close to the palace – guess who – and some in the military who want to crush the red shirts. They see this as the final battle. Part of the agreement was said to involve a “national government” that was to quickly amend the constitution. Abhisit would not have been interim prime minister, and he is said to have opposed that.

Abhisit remains ensconced with the more militant of the commanders of the armed forces, while Anupong remains against the use of force, fearing a large body count and seeing Bangkok’s major shopping and hotel area burned to the ground. It is said that it is unlikely that he can hold out much longer against the hardliners.

Nice to see an article that gets real on the present situation.

As I said earlier, many people see Abhisit as just a hot headed arrogant man, one with blood on his hands and who wants more. The same people see Anupong as the only saving grace at the moment, he is keeping the militant forces at bay and keeping peace with the option of negotiation.

Well, at least the rest of the world knows what is going on, the "Butcher of Bangkok", I can see that name sticking, hope he is financially rewarded enough by team Yellow that he can disappear before too long, perhaps living in exile next door to Thaksin in Fiji.

Lets hope the potential "Butcher of Bangkok" sees sense and comes back to the negotiation table and talks with the Reds.

[melbpete]

You forgot to add that the coup itself was already illegal and the coup leaders should be jailed.

Then the coup leaders even got the cheek to change the constitution to pordon themselves and punish TRT under retrospective law!!

What a joke 555555

Amazing Thailand!!!

Which "retrospective law"?

Everything I've read is that the TRT were found guilty of electoral fraud, which would be laws in the 1997 constitution.

Even the PPP were disbanded under 1997 laws, I believe.

[traderjm]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"1st. 20m of 60m is not a majority" You wrote.

You are incorrect.

http://www.citypopulation.de/Thailand.html

2010, there were 22,334,000 in NE

There were 11,562,000 in the North.

That is nearly 34 million people.

FACT

WOW with logic like that you could be a RED leader... or I guess a PAD leader for that matter.. news flash... total population does not mean they all support any particular movement nor does it take into account that they are NOT all voting age...you really tried to twist that one hard huh?? Pretty safe to say that the longer this goes on the REDS among the normal everyday hard working folks are looking less and less like their savior.

[eeconomist]

Not sure if this was posted here or not!! If yes, my apologies!

Thai crisis shows perils of military constitution: Suu Kyi

Thailand's political crisis shows that a constitution drawn up by the military can never deliver stability, Myanmar opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi said Saturday, according to her party.

Myanmar's military junta, which has ruled for nearly half a century, produced a new constitution as part of a "road map to democracy" which includes elections due to be held later this year.

The election plans have been widely criticised and subject to a boycott by Suu Kyi's party, the National League for Democracy (NLD), which would have had to expel its leader if it wanted to take part.

NLD spokesman Nyan Win said that in a meeting Saturday with Suu Kyi, she discussed the situation in Thailand, which has been wracked by crises since a 2006 coup ejected Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

"A new government coming to power under a constitution drawn up by the military will never be stable," he cited her as saying.

"We do not need to see very far. We just see Thailand," she said. "Thaksin was an elected person. The military seized the power from an elected person. The constitution was drawn up by the military," she said.

"After that, what happened with the first (government)? It was not stable," she said of the short-lived administration that followed the coup.

"This was a result of the constitution being written by the military."

Nyan Win said Suu Kyi was not giving an opinion on the rights and wrongs of the conflict in Thailand, where red-shirted campaigners largely loyal to Thaksin are calling for the ouster of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Abhisit's army-backed administration was appointed in a parliamentary vote after a court ruling ousted Thaksin's allies.

The Reds are also calling for the restoration of a 1997 pro-democracy constitution which preceded the rise to power of Thaksin, who is now living in exile to avoid a jail sentence for corruption.

http://news.malaysia.msn.com/regional/arti...umentid=4050554

[SanSaiExPat]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

Precisely. This is a very disturbing development.

Guerrilla warfare? Threatening to loot CentralWorld?

"When the first blood is spilled here, the entire country will be the scene of bloodshed"

"We are ready to handle the government measures. No matter what shirt we wear, our hearts are red"

These are terrorist threats being made by the red shirt leaders. Some people might object to the word terrorist, but I don't know what else to call it. Insurrection perhaps? Any other suggestions?

At the risk of sounding obvious I would suggest "Freedom Fighters, or Patroits"

So you're going with an Ironic approach?

Ha Ha! Nice try. Nothing ironic about a man's right to be free. I take after my good friend Merle Haggard on this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHAFmFsb9XM

[Robby nz]

Yes 26 million and then add on North Thailand for another 10 million.

Just head North of Bangkok 50 miles and you are in Thai speaking areas still but the color is red.

I live farther north than that Brother and very little red support here the ordinary people just want to get on with their lives and they can see that all this red inspired violance and hatred is only going to make things more difficult for them.

Your job as Thai PM is it to unite the people and not just declaring the opposition to enemies of the state. That is what dictators do.

A good PM is able to convince people from all sides that he is a capable man. Abhisit failed to do so. He thinks he can score points with suppression, ignorance, censorship, violent crackdowns and a smirk in the face.

Wasnt the last sentance what Taxin did?

[traderjm]

I also live here, am married to a Thai and have a business here. It may very well affect you but you can write on this forum until you are blue in the face but you can't do anything about the situation, nothing, zero, zip.

Ummmm thanks captain obvious... don't recalls saying I could... was this directed to me??

[LevelHead]

Given the article in the post you can see why the Reds are now changing to multicolor shirts.

With the militant forces and Abhisit ready to spray them with machine gun fire so it is said, it makes sense to now wear mutlicolors as it helps Anupong again delay military action, he will say things have changed and too many innocents could get killed.

It allows anti-propaganda when the dead bodies on the streets are all in different color shirts and so shows the reds are more intelligent than Abhisit and co, will the potential "Butcher of Bangkok" be prepared for the world to see multicolor shirted dead bodies all over Bangkok whilst claiming strongly they are all reds in disguise ?

Team Yellow will now have to go back to wearing Yellow and not multicolor perhaps ?

[Who, me ?]

thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com - 24 APRIL 2010 -

High Tension In Bangkok - 3 up-dates -

Vejjajiva government has decided to crush the red shirts. Tension is very high and the red shirt leadership is urging supporters to be prepared.

Abhisit has personally rejected negotiations: “Thai TV says Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has rejected protesters’ demand he dissolve Parliament in 30 days to end a political crisis that has paralyzed the country.”

Update: “Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Saturday rejected scaled-back demands that he dissolve Parliament in 30 days, prompting anti-government protesters to pull out of negotiations to end the political crisis gripping the country. The breakdown dashed hopes for an imminent peaceful resolution to the deadlock, which has been punctuated by increasing hostility and bloody street violence.”

Al Jazeera reports: “Abhisit Vejjajiva, the Thai prime minister, has rejected an offer of compromise with so-called red shirt protesters who have rallied for the dissolution of government for the past six weeks.” It is added that: “Abhisit said that he could not accept the offer because the red shirts ‘use violence and intimidation’. He said: “The 30-day ultimatum is not an issue. The dissolution [of parliament] must be done for the benefit of the entire country, not just for the red shirts, and it must be done at the right time…”.

It looks like the hardliners have had a victory within the government and that the ever stubborn Abhisit has had his way.

Update 1: The Bangkok Post has Abhisit saying this of the red shirts’ proffered compromise: “No, I reject it.”

In The Nation, Thammasat University historian Thanet Aphornsuvan said that “the principles of non-violence may not be enough to prevent them from ‘being crushed by the Army’,” and added that “this was because the same method – an appeal for non-violence – had never worked in the past in Thailand.”

Reflecting his pessimism on negotiations, Gothom Arya of Mahidol University said in the same article of Prime Minister Abhisit: “Peace is in his hands. It’s up to him to make it, alive or dead…”. He seemed pessimistic however.

Update 2: The Bangkok Post reports on an important piece being put in place prior to a crackdown on the red shirts. Recall that army chief Anupong Paojinda has long said that he would reject an unlawful order to crackdown on the red shirts and that earlier in the week the Civil Court issued a ruling on the legality of a crackdown that was interpreted in different ways. Now the Post reports that to “erase public doubt, Thailand’s Civil Court on Saturday said the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) can indeed disperse anti-government protesters now occupying Bangkok’s prime business district ‘if necessary’, but emphasised that it must be ‘carried out in line with international standards’.”

Now even when the state kills people it claims to have done so “in line with international standards.” Perhaps this provides Anupong with the legal basis for action against the red shirts.

Another part of the government’s actions against the red shirts and preparing for a crackdown likely involves unstated “evidence” against red shirts in alleged violent acts. This is a common action in previous military actions that have led to bloodshed. A member of the opponents’ camp is pushed forward, in custody, and is said to have spilled the beans. This time, it involves an actor and the Department of Special Investigation. PPT has pointed out previously that DSI has been highly politicized. Now DSI has taken to parading alleged criminals and holding news conferences and television spectacles making grand and unsupported accusations. The Nation has an account of the arrest and interrogation of Methi Amornwuthikul, who is claimed to be a “prominent red shirt.” Methi is a red shirt, but an odd character and was previously in the media for his semi-nud_e modeling and more recently for swinging punches at a Puea Thai Party campaign worker (see the video of the latter incident here).

With yellow shirts, now in multi-colors rallying each day in numbers as high as 10,000 to 15,000, most of the elements for a crackdown that can be “justified” are in place. The threat to crush the red shirts appears ever more likely to be put in train. PPT assumes that the okay from the palace is already in place.

Update 2: The Nation leads with the Methi story and red shirt denials. The critical point for PPT is, however, the use of the alleged confession, with Democrat Party spokesman Buranaj Smutharaks claiming that “Methee’s confession confirmed a belief that acts of sabotage on April 10 were committed by the red shirts, not a ‘third party’.” The government’s role in killings and injuries is now totally whitewashed for the Democrat Party and the public is expected to believe – and many yellow shirts will – that the red shirts killed their own.

Update 3: Like many others, PPT is hearing many rumors of what caused the proposed negotiations/compromise to fall apart. On story has to do with Sukhumbhand Paribatra talking and reaching something of an agreement with red shirts and, it is said, Thaksin Shinawatra in Brunei. That fell apart because of hardline resistance from the yellow-shirt wing of the Democrat Party including Korn Chatikavanij, some close to the palace – guess who – and some in the military who want to crush the red shirts. They see this as the final battle. Part of the agreement was said to involve a “national government” that was to quickly amend the constitution. Abhisit would not have been interim prime minister, and he is said to have opposed that.

Abhisit remains ensconced with the more militant of the commanders of the armed forces, while Anupong remains against the use of force, fearing a large body count and seeing Bangkok’s major shopping and hotel area burned to the ground. It is said that it is unlikely that he can hold out much longer against the hardliners.

Nice to see an article that gets real on the present situation.

As I said earlier, many people see Abhisit as just a hot headed arrogant man, one with blood on his hands and who wants more. The same people see Anupong as the only saving grace at the moment, he is keeping the militant forces at bay and keeping peace with the option of negotiation.

Well, at least the rest of the world knows what is going on, the "Butcher of Bangkok", I can see that name sticking, hope he is financially rewarded enough by team Yellow that he can disappear before too long, perhaps living in exile next door to Thaksin in Fiji.

Lets hope the potential "Butcher of Bangkok" sees sense and comes back to the negotiation table and talks with the Reds.

I think that you should go back to bed, take a rest, and maybe come back later with a better idea of the situation. The "Butcher of Bangkok" is certainly NOT the one you believe to be. I think also that you should rewind the whole event, and see how things developed. You will then, maybe understand what really happened, when and why things happened the way they did, and then, if you are really open mind, you will see which side the butchers are on.....The red leaders have ALWAYS threatened the other side, and still claimed to be peaceful. They have triggered all the violent episodes, and still claimed that they were unarmed peaceful democrats....Democrats, but according to their own democracy...The restraint that Abhisit has shown was even irritating for the immense majority of Thai, and still, the Reds kept on saying that he is a murderer.... They are the ones who created this violent climate, they are the ones who broke every single law, and forced the government to act to restore order. I am no yellow, I am no red, but I still can have my own opinion of the situation. Taksin IS behind all this, for his profit and benefit ONLY. Democracy has nothing to do with this!

[chadintheusa]

Not sure if this was posted here or not!! If yes, my apologies!

Thai crisis shows perils of military constitution: Suu Kyi

Thailand's political crisis shows that a constitution drawn up by the military can never deliver stability, Myanmar opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi said Saturday, according to her party.

Myanmar's military junta, which has ruled for nearly half a century, produced a new constitution as part of a "road map to democracy" which includes elections due to be held later this year.

The election plans have been widely criticised and subject to a boycott by Suu Kyi's party, the National League for Democracy (NLD), which would have had to expel its leader if it wanted to take part.

NLD spokesman Nyan Win said that in a meeting Saturday with Suu Kyi, she discussed the situation in Thailand, which has been wracked by crises since a 2006 coup ejected Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

"A new government coming to power under a constitution drawn up by the military will never be stable," he cited her as saying.

"We do not need to see very far. We just see Thailand," she said. "Thaksin was an elected person. The military seized the power from an elected person. The constitution was drawn up by the military," she said.

"After that, what happened with the first (government)? It was not stable," she said of the short-lived administration that followed the coup.

"This was a result of the constitution being written by the military."

Nyan Win said Suu Kyi was not giving an opinion on the rights and wrongs of the conflict in Thailand, where red-shirted campaigners largely loyal to Thaksin are calling for the ouster of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Abhisit's army-backed administration was appointed in a parliamentary vote after a court ruling ousted Thaksin's allies.

The Reds are also calling for the restoration of a 1997 pro-democracy constitution which preceded the rise to power of Thaksin, who is now living in exile to avoid a jail sentence for corruption.

http://news.malaysia.msn.com/regional/arti...umentid=4050554

The reason that the government that followed the coup was unstable (it was the PPP) is that it violated the constitution, it committed electoral fraud and had conflicts of interest. Under any constitution those governments should have failed. It was not a result of the constitution, but the actions of the PPP that doomed it. Likewise if the democrats are disbanded it will be due to financial irregularities, and not due to the constitution. If any of the parties could follow the electoral rules we wouldn't be in this mess.

[bikerlou47]

Many of the readers here have very strong opinions as to what the solution should be to solve the current government situation but one very important Key element can not be dIscussed, uNtil this situation is resolved the problem will continue. This dispute could Go on a long time.

[Mosha]

Re Reds changing to multi coloured shirts. Does that mean we have false multicoloureds to blame for fighting now?

[kentucky]

I don't think that Thaksin has much to do with this anymore things have evolved passed him.

If the reds denounced him and removed all his images and paraphernalia from the red areas and stopped quoting his ramblings daily on stage....

and THEN perhaps that nonsense about reds "evolving" might actually have a few people believing there might be a grain of truth to it beginning to foment.

Edited April 25, 2010 by kentucky

[chadintheusa]

Given the article in the post you can see why the Reds are now changing to multicolor shirts.

With the militant forces and Abhisit ready to spray them with machine gun fire so it is said, it makes sense to now wear mutlicolors as it helps Anupong again delay military action, he will say things have changed and too many innocents could get killed.

It allows anti-propaganda when the dead bodies on the streets are all in different color shirts and so shows the reds are more intelligent than Abhisit and co, will the potential "Butcher of Bangkok" be prepared for the world to see multicolor shirted dead bodies all over Bangkok whilst claiming strongly they are all reds in disguise ?

Team Yellow will now have to go back to wearing Yellow and not multicolor perhaps ?

Well if Red is now available the Yellows should change to that color and any violence they commit can be blamed on the reds, instead of the fake multicolors. It seems that in order to keep from being infiltrated the former reds at the rally site are going to seal off their barricades and prevent anyone from coming or going.

[kissdani]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

No doubt were you PM you would always carry a white flag and BYOV - bring your own vaseline.

One of the jobs of a PM is to stand up to the self declared enemies of the state.

Your job as Thai PM is it to unite the people and not just declaring the opposition to enemies of the state. That is what dictators do.

A good PM is able to convince people from all sides that he is a capable man. Abhisit failed to do so. He thinks he can score points with suppression, ignorance, censorship, violent crackdowns and a smirk in the face.

OK, now enlighten us an accurate description of the Red leadership?

I don't see a victory for the reds coming and that they get their elections, will not happen.

But its clear that Abhisit failed and the Democrats dissolution will come soon. Before we get new election a couple of reforms will be done. Changes of the structure of the parliament and modified the selection process of the members of the parliament. New Politics.

This can be done by a government of national unity, under integration of the moderate Reds.

Work together in a good way to bring the country together again. and draft a cool version of New Politics for the community. and restore thai strength through unity.

The other option are more clashes, more violence or just longtime stalemate. Who actually cares about the shopping centers or tourism business? A prospective 'Council of democratic Reforms' will not take preventive action like last time in 2549.

Thaksin was ousted because he divided that Thai people. Abhist isn't better, he didn't attempt to repair the damage. He was looking promising, was giving a chance, but failed.

Nobody will do the dirty job to beat up the reds, disperse them. Only to save Abhisit, so he can continue to parade the smirk in his face.

[melbpete]

For decades the poor have been held down in the mud of paddy fields in grinding poverty by the rich elite and the top tier of Thai society. Eventually the poor will decide that they do not wish that situation to continue, and the events that then unfold will inevitably be unpleasant. The elite will cling to power until it is torn from their hands.

This is an inevitable bump on Thailand's rocky road to true parliamentary democracy. If the red shirts were having their revolution in Burma, the world would be applauding their bravery. The feverish and hysterical anti-red posts on this forum are mostly from those who have never experienced true poverty or the yearning to improve their lives that grows quietly in the paddy fields.

The astonishing rudeness of many of the posts shows an obvious ignorance of Buddhism and its values, along with a boorish and old-fashioned colonial arrogance.

Why do red supporters always blame the "elite" for holding down the poor?

How about the reds look in their own backyards at the rich pooyais, and the rich local businessmen, that continually rip off the farmers.

These are the people that made the most money from Thaksin with his million baht per village cash handouts and the easy credit provide to the poor.

They are the ones that don't want the poor educated. They are the ones that stop the governments policies from working in their areas. They are the ones with the most to lose.

And they are the ones that are fighting the hardest to get Thaksin back here so they can continue on their merry ways ripping off the poor.

[jackr]

I think that you should go back to bed, take a rest, and maybe come back later with a better idea of the situation. The "Butcher of Bangkok" is certainly NOT the one you believe to be. I think also that you should rewind the whole event, and see how things developed. You will then, maybe understand what really happened, when and why things happened the way they did, and then, if you are really open mind, you will see which side the butchers are on.....The red leaders have ALWAYS threatened the other side, and still claimed to be peaceful. They have triggered all the violent episodes, and still claimed that they were unarmed peaceful democrats....Democrats, but according to their own democracy...The restraint that Abhisit has shown was even irritating for the immense majority of Thai, and still, the Reds kept on saying that he is a murderer.... They are the ones who created this violent climate, they are the ones who broke every single law, and forced the government to act to restore order. I am no yellow, I am no red, but I still can have my own opinion of the situation. Taksin IS behind all this, for his profit and benefit ONLY. Democracy has nothing to do with this!

Well put. Unfortunately, with the previous poster in mind and others of their ilk who have the blinkers on, it will fall on deaf ears. Abhisit is the good guy here and any lesser PM would have run a train through the lot of the mob weeks ago.

[melbpete]

Given the article in the post you can see why the Reds are now changing to multicolor shirts.

With the militant forces and Abhisit ready to spray them with machine gun fire so it is said, it makes sense to now wear mutlicolors as it helps Anupong again delay military action, he will say things have changed and too many innocents could get killed.

It allows anti-propaganda when the dead bodies on the streets are all in different color shirts and so shows the reds are more intelligent than Abhisit and co, will the potential "Butcher of Bangkok" be prepared for the world to see multicolor shirted dead bodies all over Bangkok whilst claiming strongly they are all reds in disguise ?

Team Yellow will now have to go back to wearing Yellow and not multicolor perhaps ?

It shows that the reds are wanting more of their people to die for one very rich man.

[Mosha]

I don't think that Thaksin has much to do with this anymore things have evolved passed him.

If the reds denounced him and removed all his images and paraphernalia from the red areas and stopped quoting his ramblings daily on stage....

and THEN perhaps that nonsense about reds "evolving" might actually have a few people believing there might be a grain of truth to it beginning to foment.

Can't have that can we? They would be left talking to themselves as the farmers went back home.

[way2muchcoffee]

Re the grenade attack I have an open mind as to who fired it and from where. The Government say they have proof the Red shirts fired it from Lumpini park captured on BTS cctv. That being the case don't they have an obligation to release said video.

If the government wishes to make any form of "stickable" case against the perpetrators, and they genuinely have such video evidence, then releasing it to the media would not only be subjudicy (sp? - it's not in my spell checker) but also could have it dismissed from court by the defence as having prejudiced public and judiciary opinion via the mass media. Irrefutable evidence is best saved for initial presentation within the courtroom.

Update:

AFP: Myanmar opposition leader Suu Kyi says Thailand's political crisis shows that constitution drawn up by military can never deliver stability

She may be on to something. So fix the constitution. Write it with input from citizens, business leaders, social activists, NGOs, military, police, judges, lawyers, politicians, civil servants, academics, all political parties etc. After all parties agree, hold a referendum to let all the people decide. Then dissolve parliament and hold elections.

They did - in 1997 under a Democrat government.

Yes the did. Obviously the 1997 constitution was seriously flawed. It was an experiment that failed, as was the next one written under the coup government. Therefore a new one needs to be implemented that corrects the problems of each, and it needs to be done before any election can take place.

[kentucky]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"1st. 20m of 60m is not a majority" You wrote.

You are incorrect.

http://www.citypopulation.de/Thailand.html

2010, there were 22,334,000 in NE

There were 11,562,000 in the North.

That is nearly 34 million people.

FACT

WOW with logic like that you could be a RED leader... or I guess a PAD leader for that matter.. news flash... total population does not mean they all support any particular movement nor does it take into account that they are NOT all voting age...you really tried to twist that one hard huh?? Pretty safe to say that the longer this goes on the REDS among the normal everyday hard working folks are looking less and less like their savior.

His already-less-than-majority numbers need to be further reduced by half.

I keep coming back to 49% in Isaan disagree with red demand (Khon Kaen Uni on Monday).

Edited April 25, 2010 by kentucky