Thai Protesters Brace For Crackdown As Compromise Rejected

[animatic]

I guess after Abhisit named Chavalit with the head of the army sat next to him, this will come to a head quickly one way or another

Ball's book on black shirts and their links to Thai politics is recommended

The two of them sitting side by side and naming Chavalit and Sae Daeng was a very strong statement no matter how you gauge things.

Oh yes.

The Thai social equivalent of the 'Bitch slap in front of your crew."

[brahmburgers]

I admit that I have not read all the posts on this topic yet, but the battery on my notebook is near empty, so I skipped to the end. I just wanted to report something that I have found extremely disturbing - and this is absolutely not a troll. At the moment I am in the US with some Thais from Burirum. They call home every morning here to get the latest goings-on. Today I heard that one of their relatives has a problem. He signed on as a red shirt because it was between crops. He really doesn't cae much one way or the other about the cause. He just felt it was good pay for what probably would be a fun trip for a few days to a week in Bangkok.

Well, things have stretched on, and he wants to go back home. He swears that he was told that since he accepted the money he could not quit. He was told that he would be klled if he abandoned the protest now.

I don't know if any of what I was told is true, but I know the people that told me this believe it completely. If it is true, that is a very serious new twist in this whole agonizing story.

Thanks for your report. There have been MANY reports that the paid for rent-a-reds have had their ID cards confiscated and can only get them back after they have "finished" their job. How they define finished and whether they can opt to quit early is something I haven't heard talked about until your report. At this point it is hard to say whether what happened to this rent-a-red is official red shirt policy or just a case of a over-zealous commander.

If it walks, looks and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. I've heard that claim several times recently and it's believable. Look at who the Reds are becoming: a desperate, trigger happy bunch, drunk on their messy party in Bangkok. They also have at least a bit of death wish (or injury wish) because they know that any moment armed troops could come down hard on them. Not surprisingly, terrorists from other cultures have death wishes to one degree or another. I'm not saying they're all terrorists, but if the Reds harbor just a few, then they're implicated in the mess that might ensue.

If I were a Red leader, I would instigate a major inspection of every cubic cm of the compound to see whether there are any guns, ammo, bombs or other seriously lethal weapons - and would confiscate or destroy them - whatever it takes to get them away from the compound.

Any luckless folks who are caught in the middle of the melee could be injured or killed. Thais would say 'serves you right,' and I'd have to agree to some degree. But the sad scenario of people being kept within the barricades against their wishes is despicable.

All those who are a party to disallowing others to leave should be prosecuted and punished. What's the charge "detaining someone against their will"? I don't know, but it ain't right.

[lannarebirth]

I admit that I havenot read all the posts on this topic yet, but the battery on my notebook is near empty, so I skipped to the end. I just wanted to report something that I have found extremely disturbing - and this is absolutely not a troll. At the moment I am in the US with some Thais from Burirum. They call home every morning here to get the latest goings-on. Today I heard that one of their relatives has a problem. He signed on as a red shirt because it was between crops. He really doesn't cae much one way or the other about the cause. He just felt it was good pay for what probably would be a fun trip for a few days to a week in Bangkok.

Well, things have stretched on, and he wants to go back home. He swears that he was told that since he accepted the money he could not quit. He was told that he would be klled if he abandoned the protest now.

I don't know if any of what I was told is true, but I know the people that told me this believe it completely. If it is true, that is a very serious new twist in this whole agonizing story.

Thanks for your report. There have been MANY reports that the paid for rent-a-reds have had their ID cards confiscated and can only get them back after they have "finished" their job. How they define finished and whether they can opt to quit early is something I haven't heard talked about until your report. At this point it is hard to say whether what happened to this rent-a-red is official red shirt policy or just a case of a over-zealous commander.

I've been wondering for a few days now whether or not those barricades are to keep soldiers out or keep followers in. It's an unconfirmed report but its interesting to read, thanks.

[Jingthing]

There have been so many reports that rent-a-reds have had their Thai ID cards confiscated that I take that as a FACT for at least a portion of the paid for reds. The poster who brought up the death threat brings up a REAL issue. It can't be easy for people who want to QUIT to quit without at the very least extremely negative reactions, and potentially much worse. Anyone who has observed the more thuggish elements of the reds is not at all surprised by this kind of management by intimidation technique.

You can just go to your local office and get another one - takes no time. The notion of confiscation doesn't come into it. Knowing the identity of protesters and issuing them Red ID does have something to say for it - one the one hand it's an attempt to make infiltration by the security forces less likely and on the other it provides a means of using duress to ensure compliance (we know who you are and where you live.)

OK, but there is also the payment part of it (only paid upon "completion") and also the intimidation aspect of being a quitter. So many did join just for the excitement and money part of it and did not fully sign up for the killing and dying part of it. Again, this whole dirty business aspect of their methods points out again that the red shirt movement is totally devoid of moral authority.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Jingthing

[jcbangkok]

There are less people there, even at night now, than attend a pro sporting event.

I don't doubt it at all. It's the use of kids to buffer the low turnout that bothers me. As mentioned yesterday we seen three families with kids under 10 years old making their way to the protest site.

There's two recent posts on this thread indicating something is already starting...

Again it comes down to holding people accountable. Just like how they put their little toddlers and babies on motor bikes. They should all have serious consequences handed down to the parents / guardians. Although the parents should have more brains this is really a gov't problem. When I grew up in the US nobody wore a seatbelt and few used child car seats. When the gov't passed laws and issues tickets then people not only started using these devices but now see how insane and dangerous it is not to use them. We as people are an odd bunch and when we see other people doing insane things (like putting kid on motor bike) we tend to think it is normal and just the way things are done.

Point being as long as people believe violence and mob take-over rules are acceptable and the way to change ... things will never change here. The gov't needs to crack down and next time (regardless of color) crack down swiftly when it comes to lawless mobs.

Edited April 25, 2010 by jcbangkok

[KKvampire]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Abhisit will go down as the most educated Thai Prime Minister who (as often is the case with intelligent people) had no common sense whatsoever. He has already lost so why not just go for a good old British compromise where noone loses face. Where the buffalo smiley when you need it?

Compromise? Your buddies dont want compromise. No British PM succumed to threats. You know nothing about nothing.... Yeah a double negative just for your ill informed posting

[hammered]

this poster has absolutely no idea what he is talking about and is obviously living in his private fantasy world.

anyone who was at ratchprasong last night knows full well that what the poster says above about the MASSIVE crowd stretching all directions is the truth. and everybody should also know that the only reason the army hasnt swept away the reds is because their numbers are just too big.

at this rate if increasing participation, the reds will soon be in a position sweep away the goverment, not vice versa.

IMHO you guys are sounding thoroughly desperate today.

From what I see in the city, public allegiance to the red shirts has all but vanished.

Even at the end of March they couldn't get more than 30k (police figure) / 50k (red figure) to join when they called for the largest gathering to date. I forget the number but even at their height I believe the number didn't surpass 60k (police) / 100k (red figure). Now their numbers are only a few thousand and "possibly" swell to 10k at night but I don't think much more than 5k at best.

earthpig has certainly stumbled upon something not reported in the press or shown by any photos etc ... perhaps we should just take him at his word, or perhaps we should just note that his claims are refuted by everyone including the reds?

Whne they had the very big demo a few weeks ago at Rachadamnoen someone making a commnet on NM did a scinetific analysis of the famous overhead shot to work out numbers. In the end I think most commenters there agreed with his analysis.

Just bandying numbers around is easy. Reality is whether ten or twenty or ninety thousand is quite immaterial. It is a lot of people and feels good to be in but unless becoming violent isnt going to achieve much. The real peaceful changers are the ones that get over 500K, but excepting virtually every Hezbollah rally for some reason, it is rarely achieved anywhere and probably never has in Thailand even in the 70s

[landofthefree]

this poster has absolutely no idea what he is talking about and is obviously living in his private fantasy world.

anyone who was at ratchprasong last night knows full well that what the poster says above about the MASSIVE crowd stretching all directions is the truth. and everybody should also know that the only reason the army hasnt swept away the reds is because their numbers are just too big.

at this rate if increasing participation, the reds will soon be in a position sweep away the goverment, not vice versa.

I have also seen it and walked through it it is huge and well organised. Noone could dispere this number of people without massive casualties. Abhisit's statement about removing it but he is not going to say how or when made me laugh. Why cant he accept that he has already lost and if he really believes the red shirts are a tiny minority call elections to see if he has a popular mandate to be the Thai Prime Minister?

[bob6023]

If this was LA , Bangkok would be burned to the ground by now.

[orpheus454]

It's hard to negotiate with terrorists.

Bravo.

Never negotiate with terrorists.

Fight terror with terror.

... and end up with more terror.

Like fighting a fire with gasoline...

[jcbangkok]

Of course, it's always quiet in the morning. Most of the protesters are from Bangkok (contrary to the lies from the all pro-govt media saying they're all from the provinces) and they're at home sleeping. Every evening it turns into a sea of red as far as the eye can see in every direction from the stage.

Don't exaggerate now...

I'm not exagerating. I admit there are barriers to how far one can see (the hump over the canal to the north, the tents to the east, west and south). The bulk are obviously to the north, but it does stretch all the way over the canal. This is a silly debate. Anyone who has actually approached the site from the north and looked down from canal area will certainly be amazed at the mass of humanity.

LOL ... so, you didn't go in and hang with your buddies???

[bino]

From what I see in the city, public allegiance to the red shirts has all but vanished.

Agree with you on that. We have a taxi operator on the soi below our balcony, that operates a fleet of about 30 cars. In the beginning, they were blasting the red broadcasts, and most of the taxis had a red flag flying from their taxi radio antenna. All of that is gone now. Even the soi motocy drivers aren't wearing red anymore, which they were in the beginning.

Looking around the sidewalks / on the skytrain at the general population- no one is wearing red in support.

I think that the few we are seeing now are the hard-core variety, which don't accurately portray the opinion of the population.

[otherstuff1957]

If they discard their signature red t-shirts we might need a new name for them. Any suggestions?

"The protesters formerly known as Reds" perhaps.

"Mallrats"

They answered that themselves;

Red Hearts

how about "loyalists" for a name change.

after all they revere the monarch, as always .

That's one thing that rather annoys me about the Reds. I wish they would stop being hypocrites regarding their ultimate aim. They are less coy in their publications:

From Red Power, April, 2010 The final days of the Romanov Dynasty:

The caption reads: King Rama V photographed with King Tsar Nicholas II and royal family members of the Romanov during his visit to Russia in Rattanakosin year 116 ( B.E. 2441) [1898]

The cover of a recent "Voice of Taksin" - Notice the 'Third card':

From the March issue of Tawan Dang, Louis 16th and Marie Antoinette (in their pre-Guillotined days):

The Voice of Taksin again, with a tribute to Oliver Cromwell 'the Father of Democracy'. They don't mention what happened to Charles the 1st. Red supporters might want to look up 'The Long Parliament'.:

[Insight]

I admit that I havenot read all the posts on this topic yet, but the battery on my notebook is near empty, so I skipped to the end. I just wanted to report something that I have found extremely disturbing - and this is absolutely not a troll. At the moment I am in the US with some Thais from Burirum. They call home every morning here to get the latest goings-on. Today I heard that one of their relatives has a problem. He signed on as a red shirt because it was between crops. He really doesn't cae much one way or the other about the cause. He just felt it was good pay for what probably would be a fun trip for a few days to a week in Bangkok.

Well, things have stretched on, and he wants to go back home. He swears that he was told that since he accepted the money he could not quit. He was told that he would be klled if he abandoned the protest now.

I don't know if any of what I was told is true, but I know the people that told me this believe it completely. If it is true, that is a very serious new twist in this whole agonizing story.

Thanks for your report. There have been MANY reports that the paid for rent-a-reds have had their ID cards confiscated and can only get them back after they have "finished" their job. How they define finished and whether they can opt to quit early is something I haven't heard talked about until your report. At this point it is hard to say whether what happened to this rent-a-red is official red shirt policy or just a case of a over-zealous commander.

I've been wondering for a few days now whether or not those barricades are to keep soldiers out or keep followers in. It's an unconfirmed report but its interesting to read, thanks.

When all this dies down it will be interesting to see how many similar stories come to light (obviously unless the reds get their way).

[jcbangkok]

It's hard to negotiate with terrorists.

Bravo.

Never negotiate with terrorists.

Fight terror with terror.

... and end up with more terror.

Like fighting a fire with gasoline...

[BKjohn]

I have also seen it and walked through it it is huge and well organised. Noone could dispere this number of people without massive casualties. Abhisit's statement about removing it but he is not going to say how or when made me laugh. Why cant he accept that he has already lost and if he really believes the red shirts are a tiny minority call elections to see if he has a popular mandate to be the Thai Prime Minister?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some red posters here should really seek some psychological assistance quickly. Delusions are a sign that you have overdone the jaa baa a bit.

[saintofsilence]

It's hard to negotiate with terrorists.

Bravo.

Never negotiate with terrorists.

Fight terror with terror.

... and end up with more terror.

Like fighting a fire with gasoline...

Bloody Terrorists need stopping instantly

Edited April 25, 2010 by saintofsilence

[animatic]

ARMY OF THE 12...

Naw, been used, the studio might sue.

The Socially Confused.

Friends of Thaksin

Prai and the Overlord's Minions

4 Weddings and a Riot

Army Of The Republic

So You Think You Can Dance.( to the masters tune)

"Weekend Warriors"

I was searching this one

People's Army of Thailand < We have a winner

With Gen Chaovalit Appointed as Supreme Commander.

[earthpig]

this poster has absolutely no idea what he is talking about and is obviously living in his private fantasy world.

anyone who was at ratchprasong last night knows full well that what the poster says above about the MASSIVE crowd stretching all directions is the truth. and everybody should also know that the only reason the army hasnt swept away the reds is because their numbers are just too big.

at this rate if increasing participation, the reds will soon be in a position sweep away the goverment, not vice versa.

IMHO you guys are sounding thoroughly desperate today.

From what I see in the city, public allegiance to the red shirts has all but vanished.

Even at the end of March they couldn't get more than 30k (police figure) / 50k (red figure) to join when they called for the largest gathering to date. I forget the number but even at their height I believe the number didn't surpass 60k (police) / 100k (red figure). Now their numbers are only a few thousand and "possibly" swell to 10k at night but I don't think much more than 5k at best.

hillarious post by someone who OBVIOUSLY KNOWS NOTHING OF WHAT HE SPEAKS.

dont take my word for it. search thru these comments and you will see several other posters who actually have been to Ratchaprasong last night, and who report what i report.

the crowd was absolutely enourmous. the red tide is rising. obviously.

[lannarebirth]

There have been so many reports that rent-a-reds have had their Thai ID cards confiscated that I take that as a FACT for at least a portion of the paid for reds. The poster who brought up the death threat brings up a REAL issue. It can't be easy for people who want to QUIT to quit without at the very least extremely negative reactions, and potentially much worse. Anyone who has observed the more thuggish elements of the reds is not at all surprised by this kind of management by intimidation technique.

You can just go to your local office and get another one - takes no time. The notion of confiscation doesn't come into it. Knowing the identity of protesters and issuing them Red ID does have something to say for it - one the one hand it's an attempt to make infiltration by the security forces less likely and on the other it provides a means of using duress to ensure compliance (we know who you are and where you live.)

OK, but there is also the payment part of it (only paid upon "completion") and also the intimidation aspect of being a quitter. So many did join just for the excitement and money part of it and did not fully sign up for the killing and dying part of it. Again, this whole dirty business aspect of their methods points out again that the red shirt movement is totally devoid of moral authority.

They may be off the per diem. There were reports not long ago where followers needed to register to qualify for the 100k-250k baht being offered when HE returns. Maybe that deal came with an open ended time frame but it was implied that it would be over soon. I think these folks are going to be fighting amongst themselves soon enough.

Edited April 25, 2010 by lannarebirth

[animatic]

If they discard their signature red t-shirts we might need a new name for them. Any suggestions?

"The protesters formerly known as Reds" perhaps.

"Mallrats"

They answered that themselves;

Red Hearts

how about "loyalists" for a name change.

after all they revere the monarch, as always .

That's one thing that rather annoys me about the Reds. I wish they would stop being hypocrites regarding their ultimate aim. They are less coy in their publications:

From Red Power, April, 2010 The final days of the Romanov Dynasty:

The caption reads: King Rama V photographed with King Tsar Nicholas II and royal family members of the Romanov during his visit to Russia in Rattanakosin year 116 ( B.E. 2441) [1898]

The cover of a recent "Voice of Taksin" - Notice the 'Third card':

From the March issue of Tawan Dang, Louis 16th and Marie Antoinette (in their pre-Guillotined days):

The Voice of Taksin again, with a tribute to Oliver Cromwell 'the Father of Democracy'. They don't mention what happened to Charles the 1st. Red supporters might want to look up 'The Long Parliament'.:

And 'The Rump Parliament' too.

[landofthefree]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Abhisit will go down as the most educated Thai Prime Minister who (as often is the case with intelligent people) had no common sense whatsoever. He has already lost so why not just go for a good old British compromise where noone loses face. Where the buffalo smiley when you need it?

Compromise? Your buddies dont want compromise. No British PM succumed to threats. You know nothing about nothing.... Yeah a double negative just for your ill informed posting

Incorrect, British Prime Ministers have often comrpomised here is an example:

when Margaret Thatcher refused to negotiate with the IRA we had years more of carnage. Later Tony Blair negotiated and compromised and we now have a peaceful situation. That is what is needed in Thailand but Abhisit hasn't got the common sense to realise it.

[OldgitTom]

The authoritarian farangs who post here are likely to get what they are drooling for - a massacre.

So the Reds threaten this, that & the other? So what else power have the poor got? They have been blocked from the ballot, they got no machine guns, tanks or artillery, & little money.

Their crooked 'leader' is removed by the equally crooked mafiosi of BKK.

What they got left but protest & verbals?

Whenever democracy raises its head in Thailand, the answer from BKK is a massacre. If the rednecks read a little history, they would know this. But authoritarians don't want to know. They don't want democracy, they want 'peace, law & order' - like you get in a prison or a graveyard. The residents there have limited ability to disturb the fun of expat wrinklies. The latter will be able to smile on in the Land of Smiles.

Others, pray for a miracle. OGT

[hammered]

Psychological games. Keep the threat to clear without ever naming a day and without intending to do it. Keeps ralluy goers and especially leadership on edge and nervous. But the problem is it annoys Bangkokians who want it cleared.

Rally leaders need to keep saying we are about to imminently be broken up as it keeps numbers high, but the problem is cry wolf too often?

Government yesterday announced Methee had named names. Doesnt really matter if he did or not as anyone who had information on will be worried or basically will think he has named them

[earthpig]

I have also seen it and walked through it it is huge and well organised. Noone could dispere this number of people without massive casualties. Abhisit's statement about removing it but he is not going to say how or when made me laugh. Why cant he accept that he has already lost and if he really believes the red shirts are a tiny minority call elections to see if he has a popular mandate to be the Thai Prime Minister?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some red posters here should really seek some psychological assistance quickly. Delusions are a sign that you have overdone the jaa baa a bit.

BKjohn, why do you denigrate posts by people who actually were on site last night?

it is obvious that trying to remove a massive number of highly energized, angry people risks horrifying casualties, on both sides.

and in order to prevent this from happening, indeed what is so unreasonable about calling for elections?

Hmm?

[animatic]

I have also seen it and walked through it it is huge and well organised. Noone could dispere this number of people without massive casualties. Abhisit's statement about removing it but he is not going to say how or when made me laugh. Why cant he accept that he has already lost and if he really believes the red shirts are a tiny minority call elections to see if he has a popular mandate to be the Thai Prime Minister?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some red posters here should really seek some psychological assistance quickly. Delusions are a sign that you have overdone the jaa baa a bit.

If the believe it then yes, but this is more like

Psychological Warfare... perception management 101

trying to make it SEEM they are 'too big to be moved',

and that 'the gov has already lost'.

And to keep the street thuggies thinking on message.

yaa daa, yaa daa, yabaa.

Edited April 25, 2010 by animatic

[Insight]

earthpig, people are clearly going to have to take your word for it.

Personally I don't think they will.

[midas]

this poster has absolutely no idea what he is talking about and is obviously living in his private fantasy world.

anyone who was at ratchprasong last night knows full well that what the poster says above about the MASSIVE crowd stretching all directions is the truth. and everybody should also know that the only reason the army hasnt swept away the reds is because their numbers are just too big.

at this rate if increasing participation, the reds will soon be in a position sweep away the goverment, not vice versa.

IMHO you guys are sounding thoroughly desperate today.

From what I see in the city, public allegiance to the red shirts has all but vanished.

Even at the end of March they couldn't get more than 30k (police figure) / 50k (red figure) to join when they called for the largest gathering to date. I forget the number but even at their height I believe the number didn't surpass 60k (police) / 100k (red figure). Now their numbers are only a few thousand and "possibly" swell to 10k at night but I don't think much more than 5k at best.

hillarious post by someone who OBVIOUSLY KNOWS NOTHING OF WHAT HE SPEAKS.

dont take my word for it. search thru these comments and you will see several other posters who actually have been to Ratchaprasong last night, and who report what i report.

the crowd was absolutely enourmous. the red tide is rising. obviously.

sorry jcbangkok, but your posts are so uninformed that they bear no further response from me.

Well said earthpig ! hold an election to stop this ridiculous situation and

just look at this video . If you don’t understand Thai, have someone watch with you to translate.

Here is Abhisit imploring the government at that time to do the responsible thing and RESIGN !

[bucatini70]

Oh well, thank you to the Reds and Thaksin for destroying Thailand.

Abhisit will go down as the most educated Thai Prime Minister who (as often is the case with intelligent people) had no common sense whatsoever. He has already lost so why not just go for a good old British compromise where noone loses face. Where the buffalo smiley when you need it?

"compromise" is frequently said to be an agreement that no party is happy with, this is because the parties involved often feel that they either gave away too much or that they received too little

i do think 1 month against 1 year is too much to give

need some time to set up an election or Thailand will be militarily run in the interi

[kentucky]

I guess after Abhisit named Chavalit with the head of the army sat next to him, this will come to a head quickly one way or another

and as they do, perhaps an early red objective:

The protesters have threatened more aggressive measures, including laying siege to Central World, the second-largest shopping complex in Southeast Asia, next to the stage at their main protest site.

"If you want Central World shopping mall back safely, you must withdraw army forces out of the nearby Rajaprasong area immediately," said Jatuporn Prompan, a protest leader.

April 25, 2010

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle7107569.ece

Edited April 25, 2010 by kentucky