Red-Shirts Must Realise Restraint Has Its Limitations

[hammered]

Well if Thaksin has died as alluded to in this thread, we will be able to finally see if this is just about Thaksin and his money or whether people are protesting for much more than just Thaksin and his money.

Somehow I dont think we will get that answer yet

He will raise his head again. Interestingly he obviously deosnt want to be seen live right now so there may be something in the sickness rumours. I sincerely doubt his lack of appearance is anything to do with a quick sex change so he could sneak back into Thailand unnoticed with a bunch of withdrawl slips and a couple of nice big new suitcases

Still guess at some point a rumour or two will be proven correct but somehow I doubt this one. Some of the Nation bloggers on both extremes are quite fanciful in their writing and theories

[4223rhodes]

Well if Thaksin has died as alluded to in this thread, we will be able to finally see if this is just about Thaksin and his money or whether people are protesting for much more than just Thaksin and his money.

Somehow I dont think we will get that answer yet

He will raise his head again. Interestingly he obviously deosnt want to be seen live right now so there may be something in the sickness rumours. I sincerely doubt his lack of appearance is anything to do with a quick sex change so he could sneak back into Thailand unnoticed with a bunch of withdrawl slips and a couple of nice big new suitcases

Still guess at some point a rumour or two will be proven correct but somehow I doubt this one. Some of the Nation bloggers on both extremes are quite fanciful in their writing and theories

Are you sure you didn't read it on the not the nation site?

[timekeeper]

Well if Thaksin has died as alluded to in this thread, we will be able to finally see if this is just about Thaksin and his money or whether people are protesting for much more than just Thaksin and his money.

if its true, the reds on the ground will be the last to know

someone will twitter on for him, to preserve the appearance he is still alive until such times they are ready to declare his death at a politically relavant time

if he is dead, i would burn him as is usual then put his remains in a big egg timer

i would make him work forever even after he is dead...

as to the red money aspect, my farang friend lives in a small village outside Surin

he says that many of the Thai people in the vilage have gone Bangkok to protest and are on a daily wage being kept for them by the village headman, they have been alarmed lately as they have been told that by the paymasters they will only get paid if they win and get Abhisit to step down

as that looks less and less likely they are getting upset

many want to go home but dare not

no, i can't substantiate what he says, i have no weblink, nothing, i just know him for over 10 years and in truth he is a little on the red side, living amongst them so i tend to believe it

[pkspeaker]

but was is the rush? why not wait a few months until violence is abated and so prospective candidates can have a reasonable time to campaign? Why do taksins people insist on 'snap' elections? The reason is you don't need to campaign when you intend to buy votes and gather votes thru intimidation..

Onetime(about 10 years ago) my Thai girlfriend abruptly told me she was going back to her village because there was an election; I asked her why she was going 300km just to vote, she said she has to vote in here village because of her id card, she also said that she would get paid a few hundred baht to vote and the village head tells everyone to vote for and everyone votes for that person. other than that she apparently had no clue as to what the politics were.. I'm pretty much assuming that's how Phua Thai intends to win this 'snap election' .. there's more to democracy than voting, it has to be a free and fair election.. the Phua Thai party has set up it's own 'security' people in bangkok; in the rural areas where they harvest votes-can we be sure there is no voter intimidation and a fair discussion is allowed..or can there at least have a few months of calm so that there is an effort to keep such abuses to a minimum?

What "community" is it that wants to see a bloodbath? What is Times Online

the single fact that the Times says ''an honest fight at the ballot box." tells you that the author knows nothing of the Thai voting culture and therefore calls into doubt the content of the rest of the article, no matter how it dovetails nicely into your support of the reds living on your doorstep.

[clockworkorange]

peacefully at the ballot box?

if you have been here a while you know that village votes are bought or secured by intimidation, the vote buying is supported and regulated by local police, mafia types and village headmen.

whoever pays most or intimidates the most, gets the vote, that's how Thaksin got in and it is how his cohorts in the Phua Thai party stay in power in Red territory.

And Abhisit relied on Newin to make up the numbers for his coalition. Do you think that Newin's MPs garner popular support in the way that you described above?

And what is your point? That the villagers are buffaloes and need the Bangkok elite to override their voting, because it must afer all have been paid for?

forum rules

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

please quote the full text when quoting me

not just the bits you want to discuss and take out of context

thank you

Oh dear, you are getting desperate and resorting to the rule book. All I did was snip your post for the sake of brevity. People do it here all the time. I did not alter any of the wording, so no rule was broken.

Fact is that Abhisit's position is by virtue of vote buying, plain and simple. Regardless of the practice being used by both sides, we can't use it as an excuse to override the popular vote, so you don't have a point.

Edited April 26, 2010 by clockworkorange

[clockworkorange]

Please document your claim that a leader of the yellow (multi-color floral pattern shirts, now) shirts who represent the ultra conservative rightist royalists works at Chula Hospital.

Not addressed to me but:

Tul a leader of the multicoloured group is a doctor at Chula. The reds know this as Sae Daeng and a group went looking for him at the hispital last week.

By the way the PAD and the multicoloureds overlap to some degree but arent the same. Sonthi et al are well seperated from them and the multicoloreds stem from quite young group who set up a facebook group intially.

There is at least one ex PAD speakers in the red leadership too and quite a few in the following just to give an example of how as issues and ideologies change so people change in who they support

All of this can be checked with some rudimentary searching.

Saying that, Sondhi and Thaksin used to be best friends...

They did indeed. Sonthi used to be Thaksin's best mate. Until KTB demanded that Sonthi pay his overdue debts. Sonthi blamed Thaksin for that and they fell out.

The yellows used corruption as pretext for stealing Thaksin's democratically elected seat. They are hardly squeaky clean themselves ...

[timekeeper]

4223rhodes to timekeeper

''Why do you assume that I don't like the answer? It is a lovely answer by a respected poster. You seem to harbor some unresolved anger issues''

my, my, you joined TV on the 8th April 2010 to rally for the reds

182 posts and already you have a very overrated opinion of yourself

typically red, long on talk, short on substance

please show me a link where anyone ever said you were respected poster and i will direct my ''unresolved anger issues'' at some other reds

[4223rhodes]

4223rhodes to timekeeper

''Why do you assume that I don't like the answer? It is a lovely answer by a respected poster. You seem to harbor some unresolved anger issues''

my, my, you joined TV on the 8th April 2010 to rally for the reds

182 posts and already you have a very overrated opinion of yourself

typically red, long on talk, short on substance

please show me a link where anyone ever said you were respected poster and i will direct my ''unresolved anger issues'' at some other reds

If you reread my post you'll notice that I was referring to Chantorn's very well researched and presented post. I said he was a respected poster and I stand by my statement.

[chantorn]

Please document your claim that a leader of the yellow (multi-color floral pattern shirts, now) shirts who represent the ultra conservative rightist royalists works at Chula Hospital.

Not addressed to me but:

Tul a leader of the multicoloured group is a doctor at Chula. The reds know this as Sae Daeng and a group went looking for him at the hispital last week.

By the way the PAD and the multicoloureds overlap to some degree but arent the same. Sonthi et al are well seperated from them and the multicoloreds stem from quite young group who set up a facebook group intially.

There is at least one ex PAD speakers in the red leadership too and quite a few in the following just to give an example of how as issues and ideologies change so people change in who they support

All of this can be checked with some rudimentary searching.

Saying that, Sondhi and Thaksin used to be best friends...

They did indeed. Sonthi used to be Thaksin's best mate. Until KTB demanded that Sonthi pay his overdue debts. Sonthi blamed Thaksin for that and they fell out.

The yellows used corruption as pretext for stealing Thaksin's democratically elected seat. They are hardly squeaky clean themselves ...

Here is the proof you need.

<h1 id="watch-headline-title">"Thaksin The Best Prime Minister.Thailand ever had" said Sonthi

</h1>

[timekeeper]

peacefully at the ballot box?

if you have been here a while you know that village votes are bought or secured by intimidation, the vote buying is supported and regulated by local police, mafia types and village headmen.

whoever pays most or intimidates the most, gets the vote, that's how Thaksin got in and it is how his cohorts in the Phua Thai party stay in power in Red territory.

And Abhisit relied on Newin to make up the numbers for his coalition. Do you think that Newin's MPs garner popular support in the way that you described above?

And what is your point? That the villagers are buffaloes and need the Bangkok elite to override their voting, because it must afer all have been paid for?

forum rules

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

please quote the full text when quoting me

not just the bits you want to discuss and take out of context

thank you

Oh dear, you are getting desperate and resorting to the rule book. All I did was snip your post for the sake of brevity. People do it here all the time. I did not alter any of the wording, so no rule was broken.

Fact is that Abhisit's position is by virtue of vote buying, plain and simple. Regardless of the practice being used by both sides, we can't use it as an excuse to override the popular vote, so you don't have a point.

not desperate, i just want to see my whole post reproduced over and over again to spark more debate.

so please quote it all when responding-thank you

please show me where Newin got paid by Abhisit or the Dems to come over?

i am not doubting it, i would just like to see you show some proof of it

[jdinasia]

The so called "terrorists" are demanding for an Independent Investigation into April 10th.

PTP party have called on the UN for an Independent Investigation.

The government refuses for an Independent Investigation.

Why not get the UN in to investigate as happened say in the Bhutto murder in Pakistan ? Why does Abhisit and his cohorts refuse ?

Well, I think most people around the world can guess.

Levelhead? more like no brain! Are you for real?

Levelhead says this is a propoganda war --- and thus spouting the same lies and arguments based upon inconsistantly held positions are his only chance for people to listen to him. What else does he have? He doesn't condemn the violent rhetoric from the Reds and in fact seems to deny that the rhetoric or actual violence even happenes. Even when red leaders like Sae Daeng come out and publicly admit the violence.

[alex_aka_P]

We see it as mandatory to peace in Thailand that Abhisit leave office.

What if you WRONG in that, and this will NOT bring peace to Thailand after the step? What's next, than?? Another spin of History?

And it will not - just because the yellows (and this is just a one reason, in many).

Boorrrrrrrring the ppl with lack of common sence. Borrrrrring this SHOWTIME, paid by me as a taxpayer.

Boring.

Edited April 26, 2010 by alex_aka_P

[timekeeper]

recent reports suggest the boys in red have been trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement with an amnesty deal for themselves

does the word ''sellout'' spring immediately to mind?

Edited April 26, 2010 by timekeeper

[lannarebirth]

The timesonlineuk has a very good editorial calling for elections in Thailand. Abhisit must step down or be removed immediately. Aung San Suu Kyi's recent comments concur.

No they don't. You got caught out in that lie before but now you're back peddling again? One really has to question what kind of government is acceptable to people who use lies and distortions to press their agenda.

[chantorn]

recent reports suggest the boys in red have been trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement with an amnesty deal for themselves

does the word ''sellout'' spring immediately to mind?

Or is it the other way round?

Maybe? Mark trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement with an amnesty deal for himself? Possible?

I suggest Mark change side and lead the Red Boys.

[sealy]

The real title is

Government and elites must realise restraint has its limitations.

The reds had been "has demonstrated extraordinary tolerance and showed restraint".

true,true.

[timekeeper]

recent reports suggest the boys in red have been trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement with an amnesty deal for themselves

does the word ''sellout'' spring immediately to mind?

Or is it the other way round?

Maybe? Mark trying to negotiate a peaceful settlement with an amnesty deal for himself? Possible?

I suggest Mark change side and lead the Red Boys.

its been reported they went to him for a secret rendezvous

after Jataporn said he would never talk to him again

how much face did that cost him?

''I suggest Mark change side and lead the Red Boys.''

you mean you want him to behave like a red and be a lying, bullying, anarchic traitor being paid by a near dead criminal meglomaniac to overthrow a country and its monarchy?

i don't think thats going to happen

Edited April 26, 2010 by timekeeper

[sealy]

yellows used corruption as pretext for stealing Thaksin's democratically elected seat. They are hardly squeaky clean themselves ...

Here is the proof you need.

<h1 id="watch-headline-title">"Thaksin The Best Prime Minister.Thailand ever had" said Sonthi

</h1>

any english subtitle?

otherwise he can talk till the cows come home and.........not many in thaivisa knows what all this rattle is about....

[Bigbore]

That is nonsense.

They have not showed restraint.

On April the 10th soldiers with live ammo tried to retake the sites.

25 people died because of it.

The mission FAILED.

Restraint ? Or simply inability to take action ?

All Abhisit needs to do is to say "The coup of 2006 was incorrect, the following events from 2006 were wrong and the parliamentary coup that put me into power was also wrong and so I dissolve the house and put the power back to the people and lets have elections".

But he prefers 26 people now dead and possibly more to come as he and his cohorts "cling to power" through force.

Abhisit's inablility to say these simple words has resulted in a nation suffering.

Rhodes,

Do you not realize that almost any form of drugs are highly illegal in Thailand? Whatever you are on has seriously clouded your perception.

[Jarearn]

The timesonlineuk has a very good editorial calling for elections in Thailand. Abhisit must step down or be removed immediately. Aung San Suu Kyi's recent comments concur.

so that's it then, because the Times in the UK says so and an activist in Burma says so, then Abhisit should just turn over the country to anarchists?

neither of them have to live here after do they?

its easy to be a commentator when it does not affect you

look at how these red animals behave now and then imagine how its going to be if they ever get any real power

Abhisit should stay the course, whatever the price......

no .................because he said so himself

watch this video of Abhisit where in Thai he says the

government must take responsibility by resigning .. everyone BUT HIM

do to others what you would like to be done to you

Thanks Midas for the video. It was a pleasure to watch. I have to disagree with your interpretation of it however. He says that the power of the people, whether one or 100,000 can cause politicians to resign. In his case he has already offered to do so within a reasonable time-frame. The big difference here is there is an extremely violent mob of people with guns and grenades, etc., trying to wrest the power from the government, which has shown a huge degree of restraint so far. Just my humble opinion.

I love Thailand and would love to see Non-violent communication used in handling the situation and other means that don't cause loss of life or property. As for the UDD expressing the desire to be non-violent, I think this a good thing, though they have been far from non-violent in their rhetoric and their behaviour for far too long to be taken credibly as a non-violent movement. The Thai people generally believe in karma (Sanskrit for action) and the law of cause and effect.

For those of you who don't understand Thai, or too fluently, as I'm sure there must be a few here at Thai Visa, in this video - one that appears to date to the 31st of August, 2008 - Abhisit says the following: "And in the event that there be 1 or 100,000 citizens stand up and request the government to show responsibility, to review itself, to analyse itself, it is not against the foundation of democracy khrap. This is especially so when there is wondering whether the administration of the Royal affairs of the land by the Government maybe are only faulty, or if worse than that have unlawfully caused harm to the law, or unlawfully caused harm to citizens, or in another bad sense have engaged in corruption. It's true that these problems can be dealt with a legal process, but have a look at all countries with a democratic system, mostly they don't wait for the law to manage the situation. There is something called 'a politicians conscience or responsibility' it must fight more than a normal person's. I have a friend in the senate who gave the example of Korea, where there was only a law proposed to have free trade and import beef from another country. People stood up in the six figures and the whole group resigned. I think that government's age was younger than this current one's when they decided such. Anyone who has lived in democratic countries in Europe or the states has seen government officials resign due to personal scandals.

It's interesting to read about the history of Thailand and to see how it became and developed as a nation. I'm currently reading a book about the Queens of Thailand, in Thai, which details the lives of Her Majesty from the times of Sukhothai to the present, gives some perspective on the manner in which Thailand has had to be governed to provide relative safety for all, and fighting and warfare have been present since the beginning. Now we stand at a cross-roads where the destruction such violence can bring is so great that there are better options. I'd love to see all the UDD and their fellow protesters let themselves be locked up in the same manner of non-violent protest that Gandhi practiced. That would be special. Their current "red-guarded approach" in nowhere near as honourable and courageous as Gandhi's Satyagraha (Truth Force).

Namaste,

Dylan/Jarearn เจริญ （Thai's have trouble pronouncing my name generally and so I chose a Thai name that is close to the phonetic proximity of my name that Thai's often come up with on hearing my name, which is more like "Jilun".

May everyone experience appreciation for life and love today and everyday.

P.S. If anyone sees any errors in my translation, please do let me know.

[lannarebirth]

Abhisit is more the prisoner now, cowering in his barracks under military protection, hated, it is hard to see when he will ever see the light of day again.

Please tell, why is so allegedly fearful of the peaceful reds? What would they do to him?

Abhisit didn't solve the problem while he had the chance, peacefully at the ballot box, by getting elected and defeating the reds that way.

He left it too late, and now his future doesn't look too bright ...

I like Mark.

It would be great if he could lead the RED to bring this country into full democracy.

Unfortunately he was born on the wrong side of the fence.

I know you know that no one has pursued the purported agenda of the Red Shirts more than Abhisit. It remains to be seen if their non acceptance of that fact lies more in the blocked messages they never receive or whether they are just disingenuous and have other, more destructive aims.

Edited April 26, 2010 by lannarebirth

[sealy]

Nation blogger Piset claims Thaksin has died.:

That would explain his absence, Manager insistence on him being at the latest stages of prostate cancer, red sudden desire to negotiate or seek asylum abroad, current absence of three leaders from the red stage, Abhisit’s new found cockiness etc.

It would explain a lot of things indeed.

Piset claims that regardless of Thaksin’s exact status his family is seeking government approval to bring his body to Thailand, and, while previous government claims about Thaksin had often been refuted, if Pojamarn herself is talking about it, Anhisit and Anupong have all the reasons to feel relieved.

last report said thaksin went skin-diving in the maldives and was seeping coconut juice on the beach...

[Robby nz]

Someone asked what the Reds would do to Abhisit if they caught him?

Well they have already tried to attack him, fortunatly he wasnt in his car when they took to it and more recently they have declared from their stage " Were coming to get you"

Now that sounds like an open threat, even a death threat to me.

Right now on TV, thats tele not this site, we see reds beating people up with sticks and baseball bats so it would seem reasonable to assume that the PM would suffer no less a fate if he came into their hands.

He is accused of hiding behind the army, possibly better than hiding behind woman and children?

[timekeeper]

Someone asked what the Reds would do to Abhisit if they caught him?

Well they have already tried to attack him, fortunatly he wasnt in his car when they took to it and more recently they have declared from their stage " Were coming to get you"

Now that sounds like an open threat, even a death threat to me.

Right now on TV, thats tele not this site, we see reds beating people up with sticks and baseball bats so it would seem reasonable to assume that the PM would suffer no less a fate if he came into their hands.

He is accused of hiding behind the army, possibly better than hiding behind woman and children?

when PM Abhisit wanted to visit Chang Mai, to discuss additional funding for the area, he was warned by the reds and the officials there that he would be targeted for assassination if he came

he said he still wanted to come.

so to save trouble for the locals from the reds, they withdrew the invitation

real RED democracy at work........

[timekeeper]

Nation blogger Piset claims Thaksin has died.:

That would explain his absence, Manager insistence on him being at the latest stages of prostate cancer, red sudden desire to negotiate or seek asylum abroad, current absence of three leaders from the red stage, Abhisit's new found cockiness etc.

It would explain a lot of things indeed.

Piset claims that regardless of Thaksin's exact status his family is seeking government approval to bring his body to Thailand, and, while previous government claims about Thaksin had often been refuted, if Pojamarn herself is talking about it, Anhisit and Anupong have all the reasons to feel relieved.

last report said thaksin went skin-diving in the maldives and was seeping coconut juice on the beach...

any holiday snaps??

[Jarearn]

This is in response to the video posted. I wrote this in reply to that video and another poster's request for subtitles.

In the video Sonthi Limthongkul was being interviewed and he basically talks about how Thaksin has good and bad qualities. He says that in his opinion Thaksin is the first prime minister in 10-20 years that had got the country started a real direction. He says that he knows the neighboring countries well and fostered good relations with China. He says he makes decisions quickly because he works quickly. He says that he prefers a PM who acts quickly rather than one who doesn't act at all. At the end he states his opinion that he is the best Prime Minister that Thailand has ever had and then they conveniently cut it right there to take it out of context and replay the same line over and over again

For all we know it could have said, "ever had since 1980".

Whatever the case I still wonder about the family of the 2500 + people slaughtered in the "quick" drug war - and who knew, drugs are even cheaper and more available than before, and the families of people who died being stuffed into pick-up trucks. In my opinion, in some instances the good may outweigh the bad, and in others, he has much bad karma to atone for, and in my humble opinion its things like the "quickie drug war fix" and "overloaded songtaews" that has caused him and his family and all his supporters so much suffering, like the loss of billions and prison if he comes back to Thailand. Karma can be very swift. Karma is action, pure and simple and all action has reaction. In my opinion Thaksin would do well to follow Gandhi's example - Gandhi spent long stays in Indian prisons under British rule and was as effective at creating change from within as he was without- and come back to be sent to prison. He'd have much time to reflect on all his quick decisions the good and the bad.

In the end we're all one. So let's all love each other and treat each other as we'd like to be treated, especially here on Thai Visa.

Namaste

Edited April 26, 2010 by Jarearn

[minburi2]

The timesonlineuk has a very good editorial calling for elections in Thailand. Abhisit must step down or be removed immediately. Aung San Suu Kyi's recent comments concur.

And see where her comments got her!!

[minburi2]

Thaksins comments regarding the Tak Bai massare.

"I regret the loss of lives in a way that should not have happened, due to suffocation. I will order a committee to be set up to investigate the situation,"

Thaksin Shinawatra

"There are some who died because they were fasting, and they were crammed in tight,"

It's a matter of their bodies becoming weak."

Thaksin Shinawatra.

Compared to Thaksin Abihist is a compassionate caring man.

No need to compare, just get rid of Abhisit, NOW!

And fill it up with more fascists like Thaksin, chavalit and you???

you will bring the whole continent down with your nonsence

[Zolt]

Actually I was kind of sympathetic with the Red Shirt aims when this whole mess started, as the whole process that led to the Abhisit government is more than murky. On the other hand since they've taken Rajprasong, I've been waiting for the govt to crack down every day. I think Abhisit's approach can't really be faulted: he was tolerant of the protesters at first and tried to negotiate with them. Then when that failed he ordered security forces to disperse them with clearly defined rules of engagement, all the while maintaining a strong TV presence and keeping the public informed.

I don't think he could have done much more at his level. His first mistake was trying to censor the Red's TV channel. It cast him in a bad light internationally and led to an escalation of the conflict. On Apr. 10, I think what happened is in the end most likely the military going in expecting little resistance, then when faced with deadly attacks by bamboo spears, assault rifles and grenades, some officers and soldiers panicked and returned fire. In the end the soldiers were wearing body armor so not that many of them died, on the other hand each hit on a protester meant a kill or serious injury, which explains the figures. Mostly I'd blame it of incompetence and bad intelligence among the military leadership.

As of now, although I still want to think of Abhisit as a decent guy, I'm seriously pissed off with all sides in the conflict. The Reds are running wild and already see themselves controlling the country, even though they've got very little actual popular support.

The military have deployed a large force at Silom, but mostly they've been remarkable by their inaction: they couldn't even get between the multicolor shirts and the reds last Thursday, and they just let themselves be bullied all over the country.

Finally, it seems the government has given up on the military and is just waiting for the Yellow/multicolor shirts to do their job instead.

The PAD crowd feel all mighty and important again, but they're not actually doing anything but pouring oil on the fire.

Just great

[SantiSuk]

if somebody here asked what would happen in Uk if such a mob would take action

he shows knowing nothing about democracy, zilch, zero

UK is a democracy with elections and human rights respected

that is not 100% true in Thailand and Thailand has a long way to go

to arrive with democracy, human rights, freedom of speech, Tv and press

I do hope Thailand will arrive there some day

duck and smile is no way

a massacre will dammage the image of Thailand

as it did for years in China

the article in The Times is not nonsens go read

I asked my English friends what they would do in England if this protest happened. They said, that the riot police would have cleared them away by repeated charges. Great! That captures the hooligans through waves and waves of small attacks. At the same time, you let the women and children go. It's like sifting flour!

So do it here already! Tear gas, raids, snipers.... get it done already!

I don't think England has had such a situation since the Civil War, whereby a large group representing a significant proportion of the population opposed the Government and were prepared to entertain dangerously-weaponed killers in their midst. So I don't see any valid UK comparables and those who think there are easy solutions are not thinking it through enough - this is a pretty unprecedented type of situation for a civilised democracy (because democracies tend to solve the needs of significant bllocks of opinion by non-violent means.

Maybe the Mosely riots - anyone know more about how they were dealt with? I would be interested to hear comparisons about a (genuine) democracy that has been faced with this kind of populist civil unrest and has managed to disperse it with minimal loss of life and move on. Maybe the race riots in America? Don't know the loss of life stats and moving on of course meant an inevitable working out of black demands over 40 years to the point where a black guy is king of the hill.

There are plenty of precedents for dealing with such situations in non-democratic societies. The scale of the current situation in Bangkok for me has much closer similarities with the euphoric students in Tianamen Square than any civil disobedience that the UK can come up with. Fortunately the Thai prime minister is educated enough to recognise all that and will not go down in history as the man who turned Rajaprasong into a totalitarian state killing field. Apparently plenty of TV wailing banshees either appear to want that kind of outcome or maybe they have greater faith in the professionalism and restraint of the Thai military than I do (and more than probably Abhisit does).

There is no easy answer.