Thailand's 'Yellow Shirts' Call For Martial Law

[OzMick]

When the yellows occupied the airport I believe it was the Red supported PPP who was in power. If they weren't dispersed at that time I suggest you contact the PTP and express your disapproval of how they handled the situation. All the discussion of so called double standards are pointless now. Abhisit was not the PM and was not responsible for the handling of the airport seizure. He is in power now and responsible for how the current mess is handled. Whining about the past will not change the fact that we are in a very serious situation now. The reds have the power to end the protests peacefully.

The red government were under attack in the courts - anyhow - the current government has done NOTHING to arrest those responsible - this IS on Abhisit's watch - in my view he has no mandate and should hold election and ask the people to decide, for themselves, whether they agree with his handling.

your logic escapes me. the PAD leadership were arrested, charged and are out on bail, and have done nothing to breach their bail conditions. Why would they be arrested; for holding the wrong point of view?

I might add that many of the red leadership are also on bail, have breached their bail conditions, but refuse to appear to answer those charges until a date that suits them - most likely the 15th of Never.

[lannarebirth]

It's such a joke - the yellow's calling for Martial law after they crippled the country and set this bad example - THEY started it all by bringing down an elected red government.

This fight doesn't have anything to do with democracy, it's about corruption.

BTW there hasn't been any real government here in Thailand ever. Only opposing interests, well balanced. Thailand is approaching a tipping point where the balance will shift to the provincial chao por and nak leng with the backing of rogue army elements. They will use "democracy" (as they see it) to cement their power and redirect all funds intended for the welfare of the people. They will discharge their own largesse through patron client relationships and Thailand becomes a failed state. The peasants get nothing, but that's what they've always got from their local leaders so nothing changes for them.

[ChiangMaiFun]

It's such a joke - the yellow's calling for Martial law after they crippled the country and set this bad example - THEY started it all by bringing down an elected red government.

This fight doesn't have anything to do with democracy, it's about corruption.

BTW there hasn't been any real government here in Thailand ever. Only opposing interests, well balanced. Thailand is approaching a tipping point where the balance will shift to the provincial chao por and nak leng with the backing of rogue army elements. They will use "democracy" (as they see it) to cement their power and redirect all funds intended for the welfare of the people. They will discharge their own largesse through patron client relationships and Thailand becomes a failed state. The peasants get nothing, but that's what they've always got from their local leaders so nothing changes for them.

well... i agree with your first comment - very depressing - they should try reading the Buddha's teachings

[lannarebirth]

It's such a joke - the yellow's calling for Martial law after they crippled the country and set this bad example - THEY started it all by bringing down an elected red government.

This fight doesn't have anything to do with democracy, it's about corruption.

BTW there hasn't been any real government here in Thailand ever. Only opposing interests, well balanced. Thailand is approaching a tipping point where the balance will shift to the provincial chao por and nak leng with the backing of rogue army elements. They will use "democracy" (as they see it) to cement their power and redirect all funds intended for the welfare of the people. They will discharge their own largesse through patron client relationships and Thailand becomes a failed state. The peasants get nothing, but that's what they've always got from their local leaders so nothing changes for them.

well... i agree with your first comment - very depressing - they should try reading the Buddha's teachings

Yes, maybe that part where attachment to delusions is the source of sufferering. The failure to see things as they really are...

[ChiangMaiFun]

It's such a joke - the yellow's calling for Martial law after they crippled the country and set this bad example - THEY started it all by bringing down an elected red government.

This fight doesn't have anything to do with democracy, it's about corruption.

BTW there hasn't been any real government here in Thailand ever. Only opposing interests, well balanced. Thailand is approaching a tipping point where the balance will shift to the provincial chao por and nak leng with the backing of rogue army elements. They will use "democracy" (as they see it) to cement their power and redirect all funds intended for the welfare of the people. They will discharge their own largesse through patron client relationships and Thailand becomes a failed state. The peasants get nothing, but that's what they've always got from their local leaders so nothing changes for them.

well... i agree with your first comment - very depressing - they should try reading the Buddha's teachings

Yes, maybe that part where attachment to delusions is the source of sufferering. The failure to see things as they really are...

Yes and mostly about Karma... it's sickening that many Thais go to the temple and wai etc. but do not understand that karma is exact and cannot be avoided - anyway we veer offtopic...

[lannarebirth]

It's such a joke - the yellow's calling for Martial law after they crippled the country and set this bad example - THEY started it all by bringing down an elected red government.

This fight doesn't have anything to do with democracy, it's about corruption.

BTW there hasn't been any real government here in Thailand ever. Only opposing interests, well balanced. Thailand is approaching a tipping point where the balance will shift to the provincial chao por and nak leng with the backing of rogue army elements. They will use "democracy" (as they see it) to cement their power and redirect all funds intended for the welfare of the people. They will discharge their own largesse through patron client relationships and Thailand becomes a failed state. The peasants get nothing, but that's what they've always got from their local leaders so nothing changes for them.

well... i agree with your first comment - very depressing - they should try reading the Buddha's teachings

Tell me why you don't agree with my second comment.

[jackr]

Sad Abhisit and his Democrat cronies, sad sad sad people who cling to power using force and killing innocents.

You seem to have your wires crossed, although that's hardly surprising going by the colour of your av. They haven't killed any 'innocents' yet as far as I can see.

No red dead april 10 ??

wounded ??? about 600 but not by gunshot of course..............

If you read, you'll see I quoted they hadn't killed any 'innocents'. Nobody asked these roughians to appear on the streets threatening all 'n sundry, but you would need to remove the red blinkers first to see that thinking.

[klikster]

Gen Prem said the soldiers belonged to His Majesty the King, not a government.

That single comment addresses the root of many of Thailand's problems. Chatchai tried to change that .. and you can see what that got him.

[barnsworth]

So the PAD and CRES want martial law as does abhisit. Army didn't look sure at all.

CRES threaten police with transfer if they don't move roadblocks. Looks like the situation is really easing in the country since Abhisits speach at the weekend.

A real lessening of tension and almost a return to normality.

Bunker mentality and I have read of other leaders that ended their reign holed up in bunkers. Propagande ministers and all!!!

Any PAD on here ever google or wiki the members of the CRES or read what other papers say about them..... Thought not

If you think the yellow are fascist. See the blue clad soldiers of Newin hitting the streets.

Yep, military very split and CRES having to rely on their old friend to get some action!!!! Well done, this will help the country.

Edited April 27, 2010 by barnsworth

[Old Man River]

Gen Prem said the soldiers belonged to His Majesty the King, not a government.

That single comment addresses the root of many of Thailand's problems. Chatchai tried to change that .. and you can see what that got him.

You lost me. Chatchai who?

[Publicus]

How can anyone say or believe in their heart of heart that snap elections is the answer???????

Thailand has had approx. 18 coups in the last 77 years (approx. 1 for every 4 years a PM is in power)

This is NOT democracy. This is people unwilling to use legal means to change and unwilling to accept when they do not get their way.

The ONLY way for change, unless by some divine miracle, is for the gov't to put its fut down when it comes to lawless mobs and terrorists demanding change. Once people realize their voices will not be heard if they break the law they will stop this idiocy. It is not only about the red mob but also finishing he legal proceedings against the yellows. As long as force and mob terrorism is a way to affect change in Thailand it will never stop.

There are obviously other things that need to happen but this has to be number 1. One of the many others is going beyond the guaranteed free education & school supplies the current gov't has instituted but also making education mandatory.

Because this isn't actually a democracy, instead only interest groups in some brief balance till the next round of vote buying (as already noted at this thread), a snap election would be an extension of the ongoing campaign of insurectionist terror and violence by the Redshirts.

If the Redshirts and the Montenegran Thaksin succeed in forcing a snap election, the Redshirts will slash and burn their way to the most votes. Violence and killing would be no obstacle to this ruthless gang of thugs. It also would be the country's last election, pretend elections as they've always been notwithstanding. The real relationships of power and money in the society are radically out of the traditional balance which is why no one any longer accepts the outcome of pretend elections, nor would anyone accept the outcome of a bloody snap Redshirt election. A snap election campaign would be more of and worse than the ongoing events we're mired in, the outcome would be beyond the courts, the EC and the institutions of the society to deal with.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Publicus

[barnsworth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_Newin_Group

How many cabinet posts does this minority faction have?

Looks like two of the main driving forces are friends and allies of Thaksin who were not smart enough to keep up with him!!! Sondhi and Newin.

These two great statesmen now hold the country ransom all in the name of Thaksin.

It seems common knowledge Thaksin is dying of cancer so why is the red movement not backing off?

Smell of democracy and freedom is in the air. That will be Thaksin's legacy, that he lit the fires of democracy in Thailand.

All yellows stand against elections and only want the Army to do their work for them again. The work of subduing the population that they can no longer manage on their own.

Whats wrong with elections taking place before the Democrats can play with the rules and election boundaries? Abhisit only wants the extra months to set about arranging the outcome.

The judiciary have also been told to be fair and ensure justice. This greatens the chace of them banning the Democrats under the same shabby rules they got Samaak out on. Shabby , but sorely needed if this country is to progress.

Edited April 27, 2010 by barnsworth

[Netfan]

When the yellows occupied the airport I believe it was the Red supported PPP who was in power. If they weren't dispersed at that time I suggest you contact the PTP and express your disapproval of how they handled the situation. All the discussion of so called double standards are pointless now. Abhisit was not the PM and was not responsible for the handling of the airport seizure. He is in power now and responsible for how the current mess is handled. Whining about the past will not change the fact that we are in a very serious situation now. The reds have the power to end the protests peacefully.

The red government were under attack in the courts - anyhow - the current government has done NOTHING to arrest those responsible - this IS on Abhisit's watch - in my view he has no mandate and should hold election and ask the people to decide, for themselves, whether they agree with his handling.

Again with the dis-information. SInce you are from a red stronghold, maybe they censored the news, so here it is - warrants were issued for the yellow leaders- years ago. They surrendered- years ago. They were freed on bail. They have not run. The case is ongoing- the Thai justice system is slow - ask the Shinawatra or Chalerm families. They have also been sued by AOT. That case is ongoing. So you can now stop with the "nothing has been done to the yellow leaders" bs. Also, Abhisit did offer elections one year early. That wasn't good enough for someone who fired off an sms to Jatuporn in the middle of the meeting with the government. Wonder who that sms was from?

[Valentine]

Gen Prem said the soldiers belonged to His Majesty the King, not a government.

That single comment addresses the root of many of Thailand's problems. Chatchai tried to change that .. and you can see what that got him.

You lost me. Chatchai who?

He was ousted in a coup in 1991 which led to the demonstrations, led by Chamlong, & deaths in 1992. HM intervened to end the bloodshed & Mr Anand was later named PM.

[barnsworth]

In the General Topics on Thai Visa. Somebody posted a great piece from Al Jazeera TV on Thailand.

Made me think of a couple of simple points about the PAD.

They actively campaigned against democracy.

They called all the poor people un-educated, not clever enough to vote.

They Called for and celebrated a coup against a popular (the most popular ever vote wise) PM.

They were involved in a sacking of Government house and occupation of an airport.

They overthrew two further PM's and did not disist until their Democrat party was back in power.

Despite legal charges, two of them hold Government posts, one now in the CRES.

They called for their people to take action on the streets and pulled back when they realised they had not many people left to call on.

They now call for Martial Law.

Every move during the entire short history of this movement has been with preserving the powers of the Elite through the facade of the Democtat party.

This is how the world outside their own owned media see it. Check any creditable news media outlet and this is how they see it... really.

It appears to me that they do not have much of a Public Relations department!!

[lazurus]

If the PM offered to have elections in 90 days under the following 3 conditions what would the reds say?

1. Reds return home within 48 hours and cease from blocking any public road from now until the election.

2. PTP and Democrats agree to participate in election where candidates are not interfered with and votes are not paid for.

3. General Anupong retires immediately and a replacement is named within the next month.

[quiksilva]

edit to add comment to the above: it also wouldn't address the fact that the broken '97 peoples charter needs to be rewritten, but if that can be done and then put out to a referendum then sure why not?

In the General Topics on Thai Visa. Somebody posted a great piece from Al Jazeera TV on Thailand.

Made me think of a couple of simple points about the PAD.

They actively campaigned against democracy.

They called all the poor people un-educated, not clever enough to vote.

They Called for and celebrated a coup against a popular (the most popular ever vote wise) PM.

They were involved in a sacking of Government house and occupation of an airport.

They overthrew two further PM's and did not disist until their Democrat party was back in power.

Despite legal charges, two of them hold Government posts, one now in the CRES.

They called for their people to take action on the streets and pulled back when they realised they had not many people left to call on.

They now call for Martial Law.

Every move during the entire short history of this movement has been with preserving the powers of the Elite through the facade of the Democtat party.

This is how the world outside their own owned media see it. Check any creditable news media outlet and this is how they see it... really.

It appears to me that they do not have much of a Public Relations department!!

If they are so well connected to the government why do they criticise it?

and why doesn't the government simply do as exactly as PAD wishes?

Why did PAD feel the need to establish their own political party? (The New Politics Party)

Could it be that their influence over the Democrats is a lot of weaker than you describe?

Edited April 27, 2010 by quiksilva

[Old Man River]

Gen Prem said the soldiers belonged to His Majesty the King, not a government.

That single comment addresses the root of many of Thailand's problems. Chatchai tried to change that .. and you can see what that got him.

You lost me. Chatchai who?

He was ousted in a coup in 1991 which led to the demonstrations, led by Chamlong, & deaths in 1992. HM intervened to end the bloodshed & Mr Anand was later named PM.

No, that was Chatichai not Chatchai, unless the poster mispelled the name. Wouldn't be the first time.

[animatic]

Kind of also boggles the mind that the reds ideals are about communism but use the buzz word democracy to muddle this. I am not against a socialist or even communist regime in Thailand if that is what the people want and is good for the country but the reds hide the fact this is what they want. Do you really believe they and their leaders are too ignorant to communicate any agenda or concrete polices beyond over throwing the current government? The red leaders have made it clear their is no help or social plans the current gov't could offer them that will stop them from demanding this gov't be thrown out of power now. A vote in 9-months is not accepted nor was even negotiating for a better time frame. Call this Thaksin inspired revolution what you want but open your eyes ... a popular hat being sold and wore at the red camp is actually a communist Red Star hat. Clearly at least the leaders must be aware of what that represents.

You are confusing communism with 'red shirts' in a Thai context - poor choice of colour but it doesn't indicate communism.

Other than most of what comes from Dr. Weng's mouth of course.

[Sunderland]

I have given up trying to present arguments for reds, yellows or multicolours. Reached the conclusion that there is too much going on in the background involving the military and monarchy to be able to say what people should or shouldn't be doing on the ground.

The short and long term future of Thailand is facinating. Hope more is revealed in the future and goes some way to explaining how much of what has been reported in the Economoist and on New Mandala's website is true, or not.

[TheBarbarian]

It is much easier to bring the handful or provinces under martial law where the yellows have the majority. That solves a problem. Not one single governor would be as suicidal as he central government is. Declaring state of emergency means empty hotels, means people out in the street and more support for the opposition who feels already robbed. By the way, what is the difference between occupying government house, sitting in the middle of the road near MBC for months and occupying airports and red shirts sitting in a shopping district?

Can;t the rich do without purchasing a Ferrari in a shopping complex? Occupying airports were far more damaging. Calling people terrorists for singing songs are also more damaging to the country. What about sacking Abhisit and asking Anupong to install a care taker who is acceptable for yellow and red? Abhisit is not willing to move it is all about not losing his beauty face. One cannot expect from Anupong that he tell his men to shoot their own family. The only way out might be another coup or the immediate dissolution of the Democrat party. The Dp people could move into the PAD same people, same policies.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Kind of also boggles the mind that the reds ideals are about communism but use the buzz word democracy to muddle this. I am not against a socialist or even communist regime in Thailand if that is what the people want and is good for the country but the reds hide the fact this is what they want. Do you really believe they and their leaders are too ignorant to communicate any agenda or concrete polices beyond over throwing the current government? The red leaders have made it clear their is no help or social plans the current gov't could offer them that will stop them from demanding this gov't be thrown out of power now. A vote in 9-months is not accepted nor was even negotiating for a better time frame. Call this Thaksin inspired revolution what you want but open your eyes ... a popular hat being sold and wore at the red camp is actually a communist Red Star hat. Clearly at least the leaders must be aware of what that represents.

You are confusing communism with 'red shirts' in a Thai context - poor choice of colour but it doesn't indicate communism.

How much do you know about communism? Ever lived in a communist country?

Oh goodie a know-it-all - I have travelled extensively (Russia seventeen times) but that is irrelevant – the 'red's' here – although their colour is 'red' – has no connotation with communism – now go back to school amd learn the basics:

Red doesn't mean Communist - repeat 100 times

Man United are NOT Communist - they just wear red - repeat 100 times

Edited April 27, 2010 by ChiangMaiFun

[bkkjames]

Kind of also boggles the mind that the reds ideals are about communism but use the buzz word democracy to muddle this. I am not against a socialist or even communist regime in Thailand if that is what the people want and is good for the country but the reds hide the fact this is what they want. Do you really believe they and their leaders are too ignorant to communicate any agenda or concrete polices beyond over throwing the current government? The red leaders have made it clear their is no help or social plans the current gov't could offer them that will stop them from demanding this gov't be thrown out of power now. A vote in 9-months is not accepted nor was even negotiating for a better time frame. Call this Thaksin inspired revolution what you want but open your eyes ... a popular hat being sold and wore at the red camp is actually a communist Red Star hat. Clearly at least the leaders must be aware of what that represents.

You are confusing communism with 'red shirts' in a Thai context - poor choice of colour but it doesn't indicate communism.

How much do you know about communism? Ever lived in a communist country?

Oh goodie a know-it-all - I have travelled extensively (Russia seventeen times) but that is irrelevant – the 'red's' here – although their colour is 'red' – has no connotation with communism – now go back to school amd learn the basics:

Red doesn't mean Communist - repeat 100 times

Man United are NOT Communist - they just wear red - repeat 100 times

Hey, leave UTD out of this mess mate, or we will have a real problem

[ChiangMaiFun]

Kind of also boggles the mind that the reds ideals are about communism but use the buzz word democracy to muddle this. I am not against a socialist or even communist regime in Thailand if that is what the people want and is good for the country but the reds hide the fact this is what they want. Do you really believe they and their leaders are too ignorant to communicate any agenda or concrete polices beyond over throwing the current government? The red leaders have made it clear their is no help or social plans the current gov't could offer them that will stop them from demanding this gov't be thrown out of power now. A vote in 9-months is not accepted nor was even negotiating for a better time frame. Call this Thaksin inspired revolution what you want but open your eyes ... a popular hat being sold and wore at the red camp is actually a communist Red Star hat. Clearly at least the leaders must be aware of what that represents.

You are confusing communism with 'red shirts' in a Thai context - poor choice of colour but it doesn't indicate communism.

Other than most of what comes from Dr. Weng's mouth of course.

Weng is often Wong and two Weng's don't make a Wite

Edited April 27, 2010 by ChiangMaiFun

[SomTumTiger]

Kind of also boggles the mind that the reds ideals are about communism but use the buzz word democracy to muddle this. I am not against a socialist or even communist regime in Thailand if that is what the people want and is good for the country but the reds hide the fact this is what they want. Do you really believe they and their leaders are too ignorant to communicate any agenda or concrete polices beyond over throwing the current government? The red leaders have made it clear their is no help or social plans the current gov't could offer them that will stop them from demanding this gov't be thrown out of power now. A vote in 9-months is not accepted nor was even negotiating for a better time frame. Call this Thaksin inspired revolution what you want but open your eyes ... a popular hat being sold and wore at the red camp is actually a communist Red Star hat. Clearly at least the leaders must be aware of what that represents.

You are confusing communism with 'red shirts' in a Thai context - poor choice of colour but it doesn't indicate communism.

Other than most of what comes from Dr. Weng's mouth of course.

Weng is often Wong and two Weng's don't make a Wite

But one Weng makes an idiot.

[bkkjames]

Weng in doubt - wing it.

(time for the nightshift of the TV debaters club to take over me thinks)

[lannarebirth]

Kind of also boggles the mind that the reds ideals are about communism but use the buzz word democracy to muddle this. I am not against a socialist or even communist regime in Thailand if that is what the people want and is good for the country but the reds hide the fact this is what they want. Do you really believe they and their leaders are too ignorant to communicate any agenda or concrete polices beyond over throwing the current government? The red leaders have made it clear their is no help or social plans the current gov't could offer them that will stop them from demanding this gov't be thrown out of power now. A vote in 9-months is not accepted nor was even negotiating for a better time frame. Call this Thaksin inspired revolution what you want but open your eyes ... a popular hat being sold and wore at the red camp is actually a communist Red Star hat. Clearly at least the leaders must be aware of what that represents.

You are confusing communism with 'red shirts' in a Thai context - poor choice of colour but it doesn't indicate communism.

How much do you know about communism? Ever lived in a communist country?

Oh goodie a know-it-all - I have travelled extensively (Russia seventeen times) but that is irrelevant – the 'red's' here – although their colour is 'red' – has no connotation with communism – now go back to school amd learn the basics:

Red doesn't mean Communist - repeat 100 times

Man United are NOT Communist - they just wear red - repeat 100 times

Finally something we can agree on. The Red Shirts are a fascist movement, not even a hint of communism except for some commie sympathizers they enlisted to bulk up their numbers.

[chantorn]

What is Martial Law?

Does than mean everyone has to go be before sunset?

[way2muchcoffee]

What is Martial Law?

Does than mean everyone has to go be before sunset?

Martial Law is like a temporary coup. The military has complete control of nearly every aspect of the state. And yes, curfews can be imposed at any time (even daytime). The streets can be cleared of all non-combatants.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[lannarebirth]

What is Martial Law?

Does than mean everyone has to go be before sunset?

Whatever the military says it is. Rule by military.