Thailand's 'Yellow Shirts' Call For Martial Law

[cmsally]

The only problem is , which bit of the military! Now go and read New Mandala.

[way2muchcoffee]

The only problem is , which bit of the military! Now go and read New Mandala.

Yep. That's not a bad article you are referring to cmsally. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Can't speak to the veracity of the article, but is was interesting nonetheless.

[chantorn]

What is Martial Law?

Does than mean everyone has to go be before sunset?

Martial Law is like a temporary coup. The military has complete control of nearly every aspect of the state. And yes, curfews can be imposed at any time (even daytime). The streets can be cleared of all non-combatants.

Whatever the military says it is. Rule by military.

So Thailand will become Burma?

What about internet. Will the military cut it?

What about shopping. Will the military allow it?

[chantorn]

The only problem is , which bit of the military! Now go and read New Mandala.

Yep. That's not a bad article you are referring to cmsally. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Can't speak to the veracity of the article, but is was interesting nonetheless.

I just visited New Mandala. OMG, I think Mark better shut it down, or at the very lease least block it from ALL Thai people. Too much about the institution.

[RussellHantz]

The only problem is , which bit of the military! Now go and read New Mandala.

Yep. That's not a bad article you are referring to cmsally. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Can't speak to the veracity of the article, but is was interesting nonetheless.

Yes, a fascinating read. I love newmandela, they have some very insightful stuff.

Edited April 27, 2010 by RussellHantz

[lazurus]

What is Martial Law?

Does than mean everyone has to go be before sunset?

Martial Law is like a temporary coup. The military has complete control of nearly every aspect of the state. And yes, curfews can be imposed at any time (even daytime). The streets can be cleared of all non-combatants.

It isn't really a coup. It puts the military in charge of security and allows them greater power to restore order. It doesn't necessarily remove the PM from his position. It allows for the suspension of normal civil rights which makes it easier to arrest and detain lawbreakers. It does allow the military to enforce a curfew to keep civilians off the streets if necessary. It has been used in certain situations in the USA and Canada as well as European countries in times of national emergency.

[lazurus]

What is Martial Law?

Does than mean everyone has to go be before sunset?

Martial Law is like a temporary coup. The military has complete control of nearly every aspect of the state. And yes, curfews can be imposed at any time (even daytime). The streets can be cleared of all non-combatants.

Whatever the military says it is. Rule by military.

So Thailand will become Burma?

What about internet. Will the military cut it?

What about shopping. Will the military allow it?

No it does not turn Thailand into Burma. But the way things are going you might want to ask those same questions of the reds. Someone attempted to block the TV signal used to broadcast the PM's Sunday address. Someone tried to disrupt the electricity flow to Bangkok using a series of bombs. So ask yourself how long before the reds cut your internet by either interfering with the satellite companies or disrupting the power systems. Concerned about shopping? The reds have set up roadblocks and searched ordinary citizens. They have disrupted the skytrain. They seem to be able to disrupt the movements of ordinary citizens. If this gets worse the reds might not allow you to go shopping, or may disrupt the flow of goods you wish to buy. They certainly aren't letting you shop at Central world. Martial law is a tool that might allow you to go back to doing the normal things you want to do. Ask yourself is rule by military better than rule by terrorists.

[klikster]

No, that was Chatichai not Chatchai, unless the poster mispelled the name. Wouldn't be the first time.

Yes, OMR. Thanks for the correction. I've been spelling his name wrong all these years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatichai_Choonhavan

The Wikipedia is a bit off re. information about the coup. Not one mention of Gen Kaset, the Air Force chief who originally had him arrested.

On February 23, 1991, he was deposed by a military coup d'etat led by generals Sunthorn Kongsompong and Suchinda Kraprayoon.

[cmsally]

The only problem is , which bit of the military! Now go and read New Mandala.

Yep. That's not a bad article you are referring to cmsally. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Can't speak to the veracity of the article, but is was interesting nonetheless.

Fits in with about everything I've heard over the past year.

Probably explains those coloured neck scarves on some of the soldiers too.

Wow as for the question is rule by the military better than by terrorists, that's a tricky one.

Of course it depends on definition of terrorists. Its very easy for those hiding behind the legitimacy (whats left of it anyway) of govt power to throw around labels when power is contested. Of course the military would do exactly the same. Under the present climate it would be an atmosphere of extreme repression. With a split in the ranks and the promise of unchallenged power, don't you think bringing on military rule would exaggerate the problem.

The thing is the military are intrinsically a lot of the problem, they need to be controlled not let loose. They are not a professional army, there is not a lot in the job description apart from power mongering, favours and cliques. How about sending them to Afghanistan, that would wake them up. No distracting golf courses either and entertainment opportunities are absolutely appalling.

[ChiangMaiFun]

You are confusing communism with 'red shirts' in a Thai context - poor choice of colour but it doesn't indicate communism.

How much do you know about communism? Ever lived in a communist country?

Oh goodie a know-it-all - I have travelled extensively (Russia seventeen times) but that is irrelevant – the 'red's' here – although their colour is 'red' – has no connotation with communism – now go back to school amd learn the basics:

Red doesn't mean Communist - repeat 100 times

Man United are NOT Communist - they just wear red - repeat 100 times

Finally something we can agree on. The Red Shirts are a fascist movement, not even a hint of communism except for some commie sympathizers they enlisted to bulk up their numbers.

Haha - nice try...

[ChiangMaiFun]

Oh goodie a know-it-all - I have travelled extensively (Russia seventeen times) but that is irrelevant – the 'red's' here – although their colour is 'red' – has no connotation with communism – now go back to school amd learn the basics:

Red doesn't mean Communist - repeat 100 times

Man United are NOT Communist - they just wear red - repeat 100 times

You can't judge from just visiting. Anyway, having lived in a socialistic country for half my life+, I remember this joke that kind of summarized a lot...

There was an old man that walked to the banana seller and asked how much for a kilo of bananas.

When he got the price, he asked how many the seller has.

The whole container, the seller answered.

OK, how much for all of them?

Given the price, the old man takes out a bag of money, counts it and give it to the seller.

So where should I deliver them, asks the seller.

Nowhere. Just keep them. But when any customer comes asking for bananas, you give them to him for free.

A few customers came, asked for bananas and got them for free. The word quickly spread, hundreds of people rushed to the shop, riots broke out, smashing half of the block, requiring the riot police to get the people apart.

Finally the police gets to the seller in the middle of the ruins that were once his shop, asking what on Earth just happened.

He explains that the old man came, paid for all bananas and told him to give them away for free... Actually, he's sitting on the bench across the shop, why not ask him directly?

Policemen walk over to the old man and ask him why he'd do something like that, when the old man goes:

I'm old, you know, and I won't live much longer. So I just wanted to see how it'll look like in communism where everything's for free...

EDIT: cut the post down by removing previous quotes

Maybe but you haven't understood that the 'red shirts' are not Communists - you have muddled it up - I don't think even the most die-hard, yellow coloured poster would say that Thaksin is a Communist - In fact my yellow friends cannot decide if they are Maoist or Fascist – depends on their mood I think.

Edit: Just realised that Bananas are YELLOW so maybe this post is a mataphor for giving the country away?

Edited April 27, 2010 by ChiangMaiFun

[jdinasia]

Sorry CMF but you need to check into the backgrounds of Dr Weng and Giles U. ---- the Reds certainly have very outspoken Maoists and Marxists getting up on their stages and in at least one example -- as a core leader. That Weng's Maoism matches his violent rhetoric is well documented.

[chantorn]

What is Martial Law?

Does than mean everyone has to go be before sunset?

Martial Law is like a temporary coup. The military has complete control of nearly every aspect of the state. And yes, curfews can be imposed at any time (even daytime). The streets can be cleared of all non-combatants.

Whatever the military says it is. Rule by military.

So Thailand will become Burma?

What about internet. Will the military cut it?

What about shopping. Will the military allow it?

No it does not turn Thailand into Burma. But the way things are going you might want to ask those same questions of the reds. Someone attempted to block the TV signal used to broadcast the PM's Sunday address. Someone tried to disrupt the electricity flow to Bangkok using a series of bombs. So ask yourself how long before the reds cut your internet by either interfering with the satellite companies or disrupting the power systems. Concerned about shopping? The reds have set up roadblocks and searched ordinary citizens. They have disrupted the skytrain. They seem to be able to disrupt the movements of ordinary citizens. If this gets worse the reds might not allow you to go shopping, or may disrupt the flow of goods you wish to buy. They certainly aren't letting you shop at Central world. Martial law is a tool that might allow you to go back to doing the normal things you want to do. Ask yourself is rule by military better than rule by terrorists.

100% agree. It is better to be rule by military than rule by terrorists

So we need to arrest and jail all the RED people.

2nd questions. Do we have jail big enough to keep all the RED people?

I am glad this is not India. Else we have to call them RED Indians. I am sure the Apache, Cherokee and Kickapoo, etc would not be amused.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Sorry CMF but you need to check into the backgrounds of Dr Weng and Giles U. ---- the Reds certainly have very outspoken Maoists and Marxists getting up on their stages and in at least one example -- as a core leader. That Weng's Maoism matches his violent rhetoric is well documented.

Two communist sympathisers does not a communist party make - Giles U. is just a dissident academic - Weng is just one voice - it doesn't make it a communist uprising - that is ludicrous and you can't be seriously suggesting that the red shirts are communist? your whole debating will go down in laughter.

[lazurus]

The color red has too much history, not sure why they picked it. Many of the protesters come from Isan, where there is a portion of the population who are of Khmer descent. I don't know why they would pick a color already associated with the Khmer Rouge. When you think of China or Russia, you think red. Anyone from America would instantly associate reds with communists. It was a bad public relations choice from the beginning. Sure Man U and the Detroit Red wings aren't communists, but this is a political movement and not a cheer squad, despite the clappers.

[jdinasia]

Sorry CMF but you need to check into the backgrounds of Dr Weng and Giles U. ---- the Reds certainly have very outspoken Maoists and Marxists getting up on their stages and in at least one example -- as a core leader. That Weng's Maoism matches his violent rhetoric is well documented.

Two communist sympathisers does not a communist party make - Giles U. is just a dissident academic - Weng is just one voice - it doesn't make it a communist uprising - that is ludicrous and you can't be seriously suggesting that the red shirts are communist? your whole debating will go down in laughter.

The Reds certainly have outspoken Moaists in their direct leadership ---- They invite people like Giles U to the stage. There are absolutely communist leanings and communists in the Red groups --- however I believe that the real Red leaders are republicans that are just willing to throw a few socialist crubs to the masses that they are attempting to manipulate.

(and when they throw those crubs to the masses they will make sure that the help they give is NOT sustainable --- and thus keep the Patron-Client model that TRT started with in full affect.

[ChiangMaiFun]

The color red has too much history, not sure why they picked it. Many of the protesters come from Isan, where there is a portion of the population who are of Khmer descent. I don't know why they would pick a color already associated with the Khmer Rouge. When you think of China or Russia, you think red. Anyone from America would instantly associate reds with communists. It was a bad public relations choice from the beginning. Sure Man U and the Detroit Red wings aren't communists, but this is a political movement and not a cheer squad, despite the clappers.

I accept that - and said as much earlier - but they are obviously not communists - to suggest otherwise is absurd. The Police wear brown - are they fascist? (maybe you shouldn't answer that - but you get my point). Let's not get to colour prejudiced and stretch the connection beyond a joke. The Army wear green - are they environmentalists? common guys the connection is timid and tenuous at best - I don't go calling the yellows fascists.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Sorry CMF but you need to check into the backgrounds of Dr Weng and Giles U. ---- the Reds certainly have very outspoken Maoists and Marxists getting up on their stages and in at least one example -- as a core leader. That Weng's Maoism matches his violent rhetoric is well documented.

Two communist sympathisers does not a communist party make - Giles U. is just a dissident academic - Weng is just one voice - it doesn't make it a communist uprising - that is ludicrous and you can't be seriously suggesting that the red shirts are communist? your whole debating will go down in laughter.

The Reds certainly have outspoken Moaists in their direct leadership ---- They invite people like Giles U to the stage. There are absolutely communist leanings and communists in the Red groups --- however I believe that the real Red leaders are republicans that are just willing to throw a few socialist crubs to the masses that they are attempting to manipulate.

(and when they throw those crubs to the masses they will make sure that the help they give is NOT sustainable --- and thus keep the Patron-Client model that TRT started with in full affect.

Giles is in England - long way to go to the red stage? anyway nothing wrong with socialism and all sides should have a voice - they just want to muzzle it in Thailand.

[way2muchcoffee]

Maybe but you haven't understood that the 'red shirts' are not Communists - you have muddled it up - I don't think even the most die-hard, yellow coloured poster would say that Thaksin is a Communist - In fact my yellow friends cannot decide if they are Maoist or Fascist – depends on their mood I think.

Edit: Just realised that Bananas are YELLOW so maybe this post is a mataphor for giving the country away?

Ahh - so you finally admit that Thaksin is the man behind this. Your slipping CMF.

[way2muchcoffee]

100% agree. It is better to be rule by military than rule by terrorists

So we need to arrest and jail all the RED people.

2nd questions. Do we have jail big enough to keep all the RED people?

I am glad this is not India. Else we have to call them RED Indians. I am sure the Apache, Cherokee and Kickapoo, etc would not be amused.

We don't call them red Indians in the USA. That's a Thai thing.

[tombradly]

For whom do the Yellow shirts speak?

They took the airport and held it for a long period and none of them went to jail.

Why is that do you think?

How about the Thai military Captain and his gang who did the coup against Thaksin?

Did he go to jail or lose his job?

NO--I am confident he got a promotion and some real big money.

So we already have it proven that the Thai supreme court is either useless or bought and paid for by the same groups that paid for the reds to do their thing at the airport and allowed a captain to take over Thailand's government.

Nuff said there.

Martial Law?

If the government could take the reds out of Bangkok, they would have already done it. Martial law is meaningless and just more propaganda.

Take your guess.

1) The reds get bored and go home

2) Yellows with the army's backing, takes control

3) Reds turn up the heat and shut all of bangkok down and take power.

4) Army takes over everything with a Burma like crackdown.

5) Anarchy

There are more but one of the above is likely.

I have no idea which one will occur but for the farangs in Thailand, number 5 would of course be the worst.

[tombradly]

Sorry--correction YELLOWS did the airport of course

For whom do the Yellow shirts speak?

They took the airport and held it for a long period and none of them went to jail.

Why is that do you think?

How about the Thai military Captain and his gang who did the coup against Thaksin?

Did he go to jail or lose his job?

NO--I am confident he got a promotion and some real big money.

So we already have it proven that the Thai supreme court is either useless or bought and paid for by the same groups that paid for the YELLOWS to do their thing at the airport and allowed a captain to take over Thailand's government.

Nuff said there.

Martial Law?

If the government could take the reds out of Bangkok, they would have already done it. Martial law is meaningless and just more propaganda.

Take your guess.

1) The reds get bored and go home

2) Yellows with the army's backing, takes control

3) Reds turn up the heat and shut all of bangkok down and take power.

4) Army takes over everything with a Burma like crackdown.

5) Anarchy

There are more but one of the above is likely.

I have no idea which one will occur but for the farangs in Thailand, number 5 would of course be the worst.

[consnabit]

It has come to me, that besides all the other problems of corruption, lack of a decent education, nepotism & poverty, cultural feudalism, etc... etc... etc...

There really is NO decent political alternative to chose.... ALL major political parties have the same problems... tainted with the perception, if not fact, of corruption and vote-buying, all controlled (or owned) by the unseen forces of HI-SO (or just Very Rich) Elites.... None of them truly representative of the downtrodden or the middle classes... None of them truly concerned about any kind of real societal and fundamental structural Change.

Lip-service and misinformation is pervasive... False Promises flow like silk over a gorge of deceit and inaction.

Nothing will ever change unless a REAL Leader and a REAL Political movement finally surfaces.

Where is the Thai 'Che Guevara'? The 'Abraham Lincoln', the 'Elliott Ness', the 'Aung San Suu Kyi'.... Where are the ones that can bring the Changes that are needed? The truth and trust that are missing,... the unity of purpose and vision?

Where is the Hope?

Talk about a crime of mixed metaphors, to use Lincoln with Che. A great man with a communist butcher of humanity. Ness, irrelevant to leaders in politics. Sir, You have gone off the reservation on this one.

As to Thailand, the real issue is justice fort the rice farmers and the no haves. Thaskin, with all his faults and personal grabs, is loved in Isaan because of the 30 baht health care and similar programs.

His image is everywhere in every village, posed with local kamans.

CS

[petedk]

Just heard several explosions around Sukhumvit. Fireworks or ...?

Anyone else hear?

[lannarebirth]

I am glad this is not India. Else we have to call them RED Indians. I am sure the Apache, Cherokee and Kickapoo, etc would not be amused.

More reminiscent of the Hekawi tribe I think. Their pursuers remind me of the Hekawi's as well.

[petedk]

I'm on Thong Lor but sounded from far away

[ChiangMaiFun]

Maybe but you haven't understood that the 'red shirts' are not Communists - you have muddled it up - I don't think even the most die-hard, yellow coloured poster would say that Thaksin is a Communist - In fact my yellow friends cannot decide if they are Maoist or Fascist – depends on their mood I think.

Edit: Just realised that Bananas are YELLOW so maybe this post is a mataphor for giving the country away?

Ahh - so you finally admit that Thaksin is the man behind this. Your slipping CMF.

hehe - he is certainley the 'banker' but the issues are less and less about him (thank goodness)

[lazurus]

The color red has too much history, not sure why they picked it. Many of the protesters come from Isan, where there is a portion of the population who are of Khmer descent. I don't know why they would pick a color already associated with the Khmer Rouge. When you think of China or Russia, you think red. Anyone from America would instantly associate reds with communists. It was a bad public relations choice from the beginning. Sure Man U and the Detroit Red wings aren't communists, but this is a political movement and not a cheer squad, despite the clappers.

I accept that - and said as much earlier - but they are obviously not communists - to suggest otherwise is absurd. The Police wear brown - are they fascist? (maybe you shouldn't answer that - but you get my point). Let's not get to colour prejudiced and stretch the connection beyond a joke. The Army wear green - are they environmentalists? common guys the connection is timid and tenuous at best - I don't go calling the yellows fascists.

But it's not that simple. Some of the red leaders Weng for example, was a member of the former Communist Party of Thailand. So you could say that at least one of the top reds used to be a communist. I don't know how much influence he has had over their policies.

As for Facism:

Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the fascist state and the fascist movement.^[19] They identify violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.^[20]

One could argue that the reds have attempted to suppress opposition to their protests and have used violence to create spirit among their crowds.

Basically fascist, communist, and nazi are names people throw around to discredit their opponents. They have such a negative connotation to them that without any actual understanding of the terms people will see them as bad. It is a poor substitute for a rational argument. If you think the reds or yellows are wrong, prove it intelligently by discussing their policies or actions, name calling gets us nowhere.

[Netfan]

It has come to me, that besides all the other problems of corruption, lack of a decent education, nepotism & poverty, cultural feudalism, etc... etc... etc...

There really is NO decent political alternative to chose.... ALL major political parties have the same problems... tainted with the perception, if not fact, of corruption and vote-buying, all controlled (or owned) by the unseen forces of HI-SO (or just Very Rich) Elites.... None of them truly representative of the downtrodden or the middle classes... None of them truly concerned about any kind of real societal and fundamental structural Change.

Lip-service and misinformation is pervasive... False Promises flow like silk over a gorge of deceit and inaction.

Nothing will ever change unless a REAL Leader and a REAL Political movement finally surfaces.

Where is the Thai 'Che Guevara'? The 'Abraham Lincoln', the 'Elliott Ness', the 'Aung San Suu Kyi'.... Where are the ones that can bring the Changes that are needed? The truth and trust that are missing,... the unity of purpose and vision?

Where is the Hope?

Talk about a crime of mixed metaphors, to use Lincoln with Che. A great man with a communist butcher of humanity. Ness, irrelevant to leaders in politics. Sir, You have gone off the reservation on this one.

As to Thailand, the real issue is justice fort the rice farmers and the no haves. Thaskin, with all his faults and personal grabs, is loved in Isaan because of the 30 baht health care and similar programs.

His image is everywhere in every village, posed with local kamans.

CS

But we keep hearing from the Red supporters here that its not about Thaksin- maybe they didn't get the word up there yet.

BTW, "Che" a communist butcher of humanity...hmmm...there is (was) a staunch Red supporter around here somewhere with that moniker

[petedk]

I'm on Thong Lor but sounded from far away

Maybe from other side of town, I'm in Pratunam and haven't heard anything nearly as loud as the guys on the Rajprasong stage...

Maybe just firecrackers but it made me stop up for a second or two. I wouldn't normally react to anything like that but in these times.....