Worsening Crisis Pushes Thailand Towards Anarchy

[whybother]

Easy to ignor the reality that the voting process in the rural areas is currently in shambles

Well it's the same dodgy voting process that supports Abhisit's coalition partners - Newin and Banharn's lot for example.

And what would you replace it with - your voting process?

Democracy is not a perfect system, we are dealing with human beings after all, but it's the best of a bad lot. Any other system that takes away the right of people to choose their leaders involves big brothers in kahki garb that are impossible to get rid of if they turn nasty - the history books are littered with them.

It's all fairly simple really.

All candidates need to be able to campaign freely with out threats.

All voters need to be able to vote in privacy.

A process that supports democracy, not individual parties.

[RockyBeerbelly]

I am really surprised to see that there are still people supporting the Red's because they are fighting for a "just cause"!!! There is no "just cause" in anarchy. There is no "just cause" in killing people, there is no "just cause" in red's searching cars when they please, there is no "just cause" in disrupting the BTS, there is no "just cause" in sabotaging a complete nation....

What I am curious about is how these idiot Red supporters in this threat see the future. What do you think happens once you're beloved Mr. T is back to rule his mafia, and resume his dictatorship? You would trust a bunch of thugs to rule this wonderful country? You must be really looking forward having a guy like Chalerm being responsible for, say, Ministry of Interior! You must have either lost your mind, or be completely ignorant reality.

[A_Traveller]

Easy to ignor the reality that the voting process in the rural areas is currently in shambles

Well it's the same dodgy voting process that supports Abhisit's coalition partners - Newin and Banharn's lot for example.

And what would you replace it with - your voting process?

Democracy is not a perfect system, we are dealing with human beings after all, but it's the best of a bad lot. Any other system that takes away the right of people to choose their leaders involves big brothers in kahki garb that are impossible to get rid of if they turn nasty - the history books are littered with them.

But that ignores the reality, which was even highlighted in the 'Independent Monitors

' of the last election. The politicisation of the local government [since the mid-90s in particular] leads to an environment where pressure is brought to bear, [you do want access to subsidised materials?] and there is an erosion of the privacy of the vote itself. The cry of "it's all vote buying" really does miss the point

Regards

[ivowatson]

Wow..another gem of objective reporting. Red thugs terrorizing law abiding citizens almost nation wide no less.

It was just a few short weeks ago when all the self proclaimed experts were predicting that the UDD protest was a "total failure"

They are not getting the numbers....they will run off home when the sticky rice runs out...or when the police crack down on them blah blah blah

Now we are told they are bringing the whole country to its knees....how did this remarkable transition happen?

I see crowds of reds almost daily (outside Bankok) and have never been threatened or felt in any danger. Of course if you just hate flag waving

mulam music and the smell of fermented fish.....you would probably feel terrorized. Good job Nation....nothing like the unbiased truth in journalism.

I think that if you had read the BIG RED PRINT at the top of the page that says it's an OPINION piece, hence it should never be confused with objective reporting.

Do you understand the difference?

The "opinion piece" starts of by stating a fact....."Red thugs are terrorizing law abiding citizens almost nation wide" Do you read that as just

an opinion? It is stated as a fact...

and it is a FACT!

You can lie all you want, the truth will prevail.

[way2muchcoffee]

Elections should be held, but in not less than six months after the red demonstrators cease all demonstrations and disruptions to the normal functioning of the country. The red shirt leaders would also need to guarantee freedom to campaign by Democrat and Coalition Party candidates throughout the nation without harrassment of threat. A very large number of observers would also need to be in place. If these things are not accomplished before any election is held then there is no way it could be considered legitimate.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[4223rhodes]

I am really surprised to see that there are still people supporting the Red's because they are fighting for a "just cause"!!! There is no "just cause" in anarchy. There is no "just cause" in killing people, there is no "just cause" in red's searching cars when they please, there is no "just cause" in disrupting the BTS, there is no "just cause" in sabotaging a complete nation....

What I am curious about is how these idiot Red supporters in this threat see the future. What do you think happens once you're beloved Mr. T is back to rule his mafia, and resume his dictatorship? You would trust a bunch of thugs to rule this wonderful country? You must be really looking forward having a guy like Chalerm being responsible for, say, Ministry of Interior! You must have either lost your mind, or be completely ignorant reality.

Things were beautiful in Thailand when Mr. T was here before and I'm sure they will be relatively beautiful were he to win a democratic election. Forget your obsession with Mr. T for a moment and consider the wider scope of the situation. There is hope. Listen to the words of Aung San Suu Kyi!

[OzMick]

That's really surpising to read!

Ah, another quote from The Nation, that bastion of neutrality that has recently taken to quoting anonymous web posters as sources of scientific expertise in its latest propaganda push. How unusual that it should now write this article blaming the reds for everything, even though the yellows started all this mob rule mess.

Thais just want their democracy back - the one that was stolen by the present government. Thais deserve a say in their political process, without all this meddling by the corrupt yellow lot. Why can't Abhisit hold an election, win, and then the reds will lose face and have absolutely no argument whatsoever? A decisive election victory would propel Abhisit to hero status on the local and world stage. He would be lauded as a man who called the bluff of his opponents (buffaloes that would never get elected), beat them at their own game and restored peace to Thailand, as it teetered on the brink, with no further loss of life.

What is Abhisit afraid of? This is his chance to go down in history, one way or the other. One wonders. Does Abhisit think that the Thai people don't like him and that he would not get the election victory that he says in all the propaganda that he is worthy of, as the true representative of the Thai public?

I'll call your bluff! elections are called in 90 days as per red's demand. Due to an absence of volunteers, my gf puts herself forward as a democrat candidate for any electorate in Isaan. Which would you recommend? She really would prefer not to be harassed/attacked/killed.

"Thais just want their democracy back" If opposition candidates cannot campaign, they don't have a democracy. by definition, they have a totalatarian (spelling?) state. The only way to get their democracy back is to stop the thuggery and intimidation.

Your avatar depicts an ultra-violent sadist, rapist and murderer. someone to look up to?

[midas]

I don't know how any westerner can actually support the red protestors with how they are acting now.

Red supporters condemn the government, the army, the elite and the yellows. There are some good reasons to condemn these groups for their actions in the past.

But you support the lawlessness of the reds.

You support them shutting down a city of 10 million people.

You support them searching individuals going about their daily lives.

You support them shutting down roads around the country.

You support them bringing down the economy which will affect all Thais, and especially the poorer ones, for years to come.

Is this the sort of country that you want to live in?

A country where a small minority can do anything that they want? I am not talking about the grass roots red supporters, the poor farmers, the factory workers, the construction workers.

I am talking about the thugs searching people, searching cars, blockading highways. If they can do this now, what will they be able to do if their leaders control the government, the police and the army?

Support the poor. Condemn the elite.

But don't support the thugs ruining the country.

i am VERY optimistic about this country -

just give them what " whybother " said " campaign freely with out threats.

and all voters able to vote in privacy "

[jayjay0]

I don't know how any westerner can actually support the red protestors with how they are acting now.

Red supporters condemn the government, the army, the elite and the yellows. There are some good reasons to condemn these groups for their actions in the past.

But you support the lawlessness of the reds.

You support them shutting down a city of 10 million people.

You support them searching individuals going about their daily lives.

You support them shutting down roads around the country.

You support them bringing down the economy which will affect all Thais, and especially the poorer ones, for years to come.

Is this the sort of country that you want to live in?

A country where a small minority can do anything that they want? I am not talking about the grass roots red supporters, the poor farmers, the factory workers, the construction workers.

I am talking about the thugs searching people, searching cars, blockading highways. If they can do this now, what will they be able to do if their leaders control the government, the police and the army?

Support the poor. Condemn the elite.

But don't support the thugs ruining the country.

A country where a small minority can do anything that they want.

Are you talking about Abhist and his buddies?

[bangkoklight]

The Yellow Shirts occupied Suvarnabhumi Airport for only nine days. Why?

[brahmburgers]

From beginning of OP article:

"By the time this article goes to press, let's hope the country is not on the verge of becoming a failed state...."

What's the definition of 'a failed state'? A state where top political leaders don't have control of security forces? If that fits, then Thailand is already 'a failed state.'

Having said that, Thailand is still a good place, particularly when compared to many other worse places. Examples:

In Burma, China, N.Korea and Tibet, any discussions within the country, like the ones we're having here on T.Visa would be grounds for prison sentences. Summary prison and executions are common, not like in Thailand where there's at least an ok court system, albeit subjective and backlogged.

Even if riots break out in Thailand, it will still rate better than Zimbabwe and Somalia. Zimbabwe is controlled by a mean-spirited old man who relishes harming all Zimbabweans who don't support him - without a hint of conscience. Plus, Mugabe unabashedly hates foreigners. Similar to Thaksin, but more severe.

Somalia has no police or army to speak of. At least Thailand has police and military, though their members' knowledge of, and adherence to the rules of their profession are in doubt at this time. Doesn't help that police and military leaders are as soft as rotten fruit, but at least they are security forces of sorts. NOTE: Are these the same types of security personnel who will be charged with keeping Thailand's four proposed nuclear power plants safe? Scary thought.

Edited April 27, 2010 by brahmburgers

[norwayeagle]

......and I have'nt even had my cornflakes yet.

I allways drink fresh coconut water as a starter in the morning,,aaaaaaa Aroi.What a miracle nut

according to Tom Hanks' character in Castaway, a natural laxative. good health to you!

Hehe never had much of a sh,,,ing ProBlem.Neighter before or when drinking young coconut water.

.Never been better!

[norwayeagle]

......and I have'nt even had my cornflakes yet.

I allways drink fresh coconut water as a starter in the morning,,aaaaaaa Aroi.What a miracle nut

according to Tom Hanks' character in Castaway, a natural laxative. good health to you!

Hehe never had much of a sh,,,ing ProBlem.Neighter before or when drinking young coconut water.

.Never been better!

Of topic,,soryyy .Guess we need that these days,,?

[old wanderer]

Some here have very short selective memories...When Prime Minister Abhisit' wanted to go to Chang Mai just 3 months ago, the threat of violence was so great he had to cancel.

Now for those of you that think Thailand is not falling into anarchy, then please explain when the leader of a country wishes to address his countrymen and you have the red shirts making serious enough threats against his appearance that he is forced to cancel? Is this democracy?

Maybe the thing to do is the grant Issan independence, and let them have their own country? The could even grant their great patriarch Thaskin citizenship that way. With their black shirt guards, great bastions of learning, I am sure they could show the way to really run a country.

[offissa]

The Yellow Shirts occupied Suvarnabhumi Airport for only nine days. Why?

They stopped when they won.

[jjmax]

I don't know how any westerner can actually support the red protestors with how they are acting now.

I call them LBHs.

Losers

Back

Home

[TallForeigner]

This country is on the verge of real chaos, and civil war will produce much more victims than a crack down of the Ratchprasong area !

Better wake up and get your coffee before you open your mouth... You get things really wrong. You need to face the reality in Thailand that a violent crackdown at Rajprasong WILL produce a civil war.

[kissdani]

Does anyone have an explanation as to why the police and the army are simply doing nothing?

Is is true they are all water melons or tomatoes?

Is the government just incredibly weak and indecisive?

Or is something bigger being planned?

I've just read that the skytrain authorities at Chidlom are negotiating with the red shirts to get their station entrance unblocked.

Imagine that a bunch of us went and blocked the entrance to the White House. Imagine that the police and the army just stood around and did nothing. Imagine that Obama had to come out and negotiate with us to get out the way.

Hard to imagine, isn't it.

So what is REALLY going on?

Imagine it isn't everywhere in the world like in the USA.

Thailand is not the USA. And the Thai army not a force that fights against civilians.

[rabo]

The Yellow Shirts occupied Suvarnabhumi Airport for only nine days. Why?

They stopped when they won.

They stopped when the courts ruled on the illegality of Thaksin's brother-in-law's government because of election fraud. This legal process was already in the works before shutting down the airport. It is unlikely the authorities would use force to open the airport before hearing the ruling that would solve the problem anyway.

BTW: At the time, few people agreed with the airport closure.

[RockyBeerbelly]

I am really surprised to see that there are still people supporting the Red's because they are fighting for a "just cause"!!! There is no "just cause" in anarchy. There is no "just cause" in killing people, there is no "just cause" in red's searching cars when they please, there is no "just cause" in disrupting the BTS, there is no "just cause" in sabotaging a complete nation....

What I am curious about is how these idiot Red supporters in this threat see the future. What do you think happens once you're beloved Mr. T is back to rule his mafia, and resume his dictatorship? You would trust a bunch of thugs to rule this wonderful country? You must be really looking forward having a guy like Chalerm being responsible for, say, Ministry of Interior! You must have either lost your mind, or be completely ignorant reality.

Things were beautiful in Thailand when Mr. T was here before and I'm sure they will be relatively beautiful were he to win a democratic election. Forget your obsession with Mr. T for a moment and consider the wider scope of the situation. There is hope. Listen to the words of Aung San Suu Kyi!

First and foremost he should win an election without vote-buying to be democratically elected! This current government is more democratically elected than any of Thaksins governments were. Furthermore, you should maybe ask all the families of the people who died during Thaksins dictatorship if it was so beautiful!

And please, stop quoting Aung San Suu Kyi in one line with Thaksin. My Burmese friends here in Thailand have absolutely no affiliation with Thaksin and his cronies, as Thaksin is a friend of the Burmese junta and his current practices are much more in line with Hun Sen approach.

I still challenge the Red supporters here to explain what the future under the Red's dictatorship would look like. A government full of criminals, killers and idiots. What will this do to this country?

[old wanderer]

Things were beautiful in Thailand when Mr. T was here before and I'm sure they will be relatively beautiful were he to win a democratic election. Forget your obsession with Mr. T for a moment and consider the wider scope of the situation. There is hope. Listen to the words of Aung San Suu Kyi!

Well let us look at that statement:

How many extra-judicial killings were sanctioned by Mr T?

How many journalist and rivals just disappeared?

How many hundreds of Muslims in the south are rotting in trench graves?

Where would Thailand be now, if Mr T had not plundered so much of the wealth of the country?

So Yes I would agree with your statement "Things wre beautiful in Thailand when Mr T was here before", if I were Kunying Pojaman. (And she was not facing 3 years in jail for tax evasion).

[hammered]

From beginning of OP article:

"By the time this article goes to press, let's hope the country is not on the verge of becoming a failed state...."

What's the definition of 'a failed state'? A state where top political leaders don't have control of security forces? If that fits, then Thailand is already 'a failed state.'

Having said that, Thailand is still a good place, particularly when compared to many other worse places. Examples:

In Burma, China, N.Korea and Tibet, any discussions within the country, like the ones we're having here on T.Visa would be grounds for prison sentences. Summary prison and executions are common, not like in Thailand where there's at least an ok court system, albeit subjective and backlogged.

Even if riots break out in Thailand, it will still rate better than Zimbabwe and Somalia. Zimbabwe is controlled by a mean-spirited old man who relishes harming all Zimbabweans who don't support him - without a hint of conscience. Plus, Mugabe unabashedly hates foreigners. Similar to Thaksin, but more severe.

Somalia has no police or army to speak of. At least Thailand has police and military, though their members' knowledge of, and adherence to the rules of their profession are in doubt at this time. Doesn't help that police and military leaders are as soft as rotten fruit, but at least they are security forces of sorts. NOTE: Are these the same types of security personnel who will be charged with keeping Thailand's four proposed nuclear power plants safe? Scary thought.

I was listening to western analysis of Yemen today and they concluded that Yemen wasnt a failed state. This would suggest Thailand is a long way away by that standard.

[retarius]

I don't get all this anarchy stuff....where I live it isvery nice and peaceful (Isan)...I haven't seen any red-men with sharpened bamboo sticks, or black men AK47s or M16s either...we did have a firework display on Sunday evening to honor Kamo...the loud noises frightened my wife....but I can attest that it is not in the least bit anarchic here...

What seems to be happening is that a few hundred (Nation numbers) boisterous people have made it inconvenient for the ultra rich to shop in some of Bangkok's more exclusive malls...I agree that this is a terrible thing for them to do...how wouldyou feel if you couldn't drive your $500000 Benz to your favorite shopping mall...terrible of course... but the press are blowing the anarchy thing out of proportion....we have lovely malls up here in Isan and factory outlets too....maybe you should come and do your shopping up here until the red shirts...you may even find that the prices are better....

[bangkoklight]

They stopped when they won.

Exactly. The police and army didn't even raise a baton to the Yellows in 2008 when they besieged the main gateway into the country. And they got what they wanted in just 9 days.

So why would the Reds go home now given this blatant show of double standards? It's not about Mr. T anymore, though he was the catalyst.

[somo]

The Yellow Shirts occupied Suvarnabhumi Airport for only nine days. Why?

They stopped when they won.

They stopped when the courts kicked out the goverment.

The courts will soon kick out this goverment.

The problems are the same so too will be the solutions

This solution will be shown once again to be only temporary but will at least give a breathing space.

[old wanderer]

I don't get all this anarchy stuff....where I live it isvery nice and peaceful (Isan)...I haven't seen any red-men with sharpened bamboo sticks, or black men AK47s or M16s either...we did have a firework display on Sunday evening to honor Kamo...the loud noises frightened my wife....but I can attest that it is not in the least bit anarchic here...

What seems to be happening is that a few hundred (Nation numbers) boisterous people have made it inconvenient for the ultra rich to shop in some of Bangkok's more exclusive malls...I agree that this is a terrible thing for them to do...how wouldyou feel if you couldn't drive your $500000 Benz to your favorite shopping mall...terrible of course... but the press are blowing the anarchy thing out of proportion....we have lovely malls up here in Isan and factory outlets too....maybe you should come and do your shopping up here until the red shirts...you may even find that the prices are better....

And of course we could wear the XXXX favorite color, yellow, when we come to visit and shop.

Would not raise any problems would it?

Edited April 27, 2010 by old wanderer

[danc]

Anyone that suggest the yellow shirts would have just pottered around, with orchids behind their ears, shouting a few slogans and waving few flags had they not got their way is a little naive, I conjecture. There are some very seasoned and hard-core thugs (the buzz word, it seems) amongst them, just as there are amongst the redshirts....Indeed, it sort of sums up the muck of politics here that probably the biggest gangster of them all, a certain Newin Chidchob hold the balance of power!!

[carbine1125]

the only result of such a partisan opinion is to divide more deeply and to drive more certainly to Civil War.

The situation is now far more difficult to handle.

1- A conscrit army is not a block without cracks. I have told from day one that the law enforcement was a Police operation more specifically Anti-Riot Forces.

2- The fact of double standards (PAD Airports) has destroyed a fair utilisation of Police and Army

3- Abhisit is acting as a Partisan Leader not as a Stateman: he failed to adress directly to root people and fix their issues, defusing the situation at the roots: it is a well known tactic to defuse a social unrest by adressing directly the issues, overpassing the leaders.

4- Now we are on the verge of the insurrection. If there is a bloody crackdown, the risk is the Civil war, just waiting than some Army sections join the insurrection. IMHO, Anupong has well understood the danger and this is why he cannot act as Abhisit want.

Thats a great post and the Army is indeed split.

In the past, the Elites have bought elections and where they could not buy them, they have (through the salaries of the forces with missused Tax Revenue) PAID for coups and PAID the soldiers to do their bidding. They have somehow brought Newin in on their side this time to prop up Abhisit. This can only mean they have promised him PM if he maintains status Quo. When PAD have a problem with Newin in the future, they are going to pray that the "good old days" of Thaksin could come back. A PAD rally under a Newin Gov. will not happen. Crocodile farms will have a good day though.

Is it any better to be paying army conscripts to keep you in power all these years than Thaksin buying a bit of land and dodging a bit of tax? Obviously to the PAD its ok.

PAD's rank and file interestes are closer to those of the Redshirts. They just don't know it yet as they think they are part of the upper classes. They are at best, part of the lower rungs of middle classes and still very poorly paid in a world wide sense. This despite their party being in power forever.

Of course nobody would confuse Taksin as being one of these elite's would they?

[4223rhodes]

I don't get all this anarchy stuff....where I live it isvery nice and peaceful (Isan)...I haven't seen any red-men with sharpened bamboo sticks, or black men AK47s or M16s either...we did have a firework display on Sunday evening to honor Kamo...the loud noises frightened my wife....but I can attest that it is not in the least bit anarchic here...

What seems to be happening is that a few hundred (Nation numbers) boisterous people have made it inconvenient for the ultra rich to shop in some of Bangkok's more exclusive malls...I agree that this is a terrible thing for them to do...how wouldyou feel if you couldn't drive your $500000 Benz to your favorite shopping mall...terrible of course... but the press are blowing the anarchy thing out of proportion....we have lovely malls up here in Isan and factory outlets too....maybe you should come and do your shopping up here until the red shirts...you may even find that the prices are better....

Rumor has it they are planning to move the capital from Bangkok to Mahasarakam in the new republic! And yes, Luis Vuitton will follow!

[whybother]

Very well said. If Abhist when coming into power had taken immediate steps to punish the Yellow shirts by prosecuting the leaders and making them responsible for the half a billion baht worth of damage they did at government house the red shirts would have found them selves with a lot less public support.

Is it the PMs job to prosecute people? The PM shouldn't be interfering with the judicial processes, except by setting laws in parliament.