New 400cc V-twin For 150,000 Baht

[enerzne]

Lifan Engines are used in the '3 wheeler' ("sam lor") that are build in Udon Thani. They run good, they last. As you can see in every place in Isaan. So functionality they are okay. Just the outside looks quicker worn as on other engines. But over the last years i saw improvement.

The new '3 wheeler' have the brand APN. This because the Company that builds them has taken over the guarantee, selling as their own brand. But they are still Lifan engines.

400cc V-twin, Thai build, 1xx'xxx Baht

If it comes with a dealership then:

- yes , it could be the bike for my wife

- other name... i would prefer

- the Price... lower i like

Keep the Rubber Side Down.

[powderpuff]

Yes the Koreans have slid in nicely between Japanese & Chinese.

I also remember when "Made in Japan" meant plastic krap that would crumble just by looking at it.

Their brilliance was in miniaturising, at approxamately the time transistors became widespread. Radios & watches were among the first things Japan became famous for.

For Lifan to be made in Thailand is a plus, considering that Kawasaki & Triumph are also made here. Chrome plating etc can be done if you are willing to watch the quality control.

Until recently the problem with Chinese made rubbish; just like Indian rubbish Korean rubbish & Russian rubbish was their inability to make good quality steel.

I don't need an air cooled anything but this looks like a nice motorcycle. I did get some pix of some off breed bike at the 2010 motor show, (similar to Sachs Madness) Matchless - whatever - also needs work on branding. I'll post them. Honda are falling on their a$$ concerning bringing great motorcycles to the market that people want to buy. Sad. Great Marque left to rot.

Innovate or die.

Edited April 29, 2010 by powderpuff

[powderpuff]

If you aren't that worried about originality, but want looks and reliability, why not go for a Kawa W 650? Obviously designed as a Bonnie replica (although Kawa wouldn't admit that!) I have seen two in good condition for sale recently for 150,000 baht each, with books.

Because we are talking about Brand new Thai made motorcycles - not gray market second hand stuff.

The big 4 are not doing anything to be proud of. With the possible exception of Kawa with the Ninja 250.

[VocalNeal]

Pass.

How will they ever pass the strictest/most convoluted emissions regulations in the world?

Lifan works in Thailand closely with the Pollution Control Department (the department that does the actual exhaust emission testing in Thailand), also Pollution Control Department already approved 10 different Lifan engines for the use in Thailand, so I have the idea that Lifan knows what is required to pass the Thai exhaust emission tests.

I'm sure they do!

[JohnLeech]

If you aren't that worried about originality, but want looks and reliability, why not go for a Kawa W 650? Obviously designed as a Bonnie replica (although Kawa wouldn't admit that!) I have seen two in good condition for sale recently for 150,000 baht each, with books.

Because we are talking about Brand new Thai made motorcycles - not gray market second hand stuff.

Lighten up. familyonthemove was "in the market for a bigger bike and have been looking at a Bonnie .... but this would be much, much cheaper, although clearly not in the same league." As the W 650 would seem to match exactly the type of bike he was after, at a similar price to the Lifan, I thought it would be worth mentioning in case he, or anyone else, was not aware of it. My aplogies if that offended you.

[Richard-BKK]

If the Kawasaki W650 comes with genuine greenbook and it matches what you're looking for it's probably a good motorcycle. Still spare-parts will be extremely hard to get, ebay and online shopping for parts will be your newest hobby. But if it comes with just invoice and import papers you would buy a cat in a bag, the Kawasaki W650 cannot be registered anymore, it simply doesn't meet the strict exhaust emission Thai rules. Trying to register the Kawasaki W650 will cost "not refundable" about 60,000 Bht plus about 30,000 to 50,000 for road safety testing and pollution control testing.

(By the way currently they now not only check exhaust emission, if your motorcycle loses (leaks) oil or gasoline during testing you also disqualified)

Edited April 29, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[powderpuff]

Posting 2 pictures of 2 Thai or Chinese or Taiwanese (no clue) made motorcycles on display at the 2010 Bangkok International Motor Show. Presumably they can be titled registered & insured. My eyes are not good enough to read the Brand.

[Richard-BKK]

Hmm Powderpuff,

Demak motorcycles is Malaysian, you can find them at http://www.demakmotor.com (The enduro style did look okay)

[powderpuff]

The road bike looks like a lot sweeter version of a Tiger Boxer (cop bike).

[Richard-BKK]

The road bike looks like a lot sweeter version of a Tiger Boxer (cop bike).

Maybe this bike is the reason why the Momos Boxer 250 RS is not selling well in Malaysia? Not sure of the specs, but if memory serves me well it's a 250cc 2-cylinder...

[JohnLeech]

If the Kawasaki W650 comes with genuine greenbook and it matches what you're looking for it's probably a good motorcycle. Still spare-parts will be extremely hard to get, ebay and online shopping for parts will be your newest hobby.

As I said, 150,000 with book. Those I have seen without are around 80,000. I also agree about spare parts, but I would prefer trying to find spares here for a W650 than I would for a genuine Bonnie!

[BSJ]

Will Lifan be bring them out in a range of colours? I like this colour.

[ttakata]

Pretty much repeating things already said.

I would not spend 150K on a Chinese designed bike because I've never read about a Chinese bike being long term reliable.

I don't necessarily care where something is made, it's the design and quality control that matter and that's where I feel the Chinese still need a decade to learn.

China embraces education and greed so I know in 15 or less years the Chinese will have competitive global cars and bikes.

For now I'd put that money towards a used Japanese bike.

I bet a 5 year old Japanese bike will still last longer than a new Lifan.

If Lifan & China were smart they'd do what Hyundai did.

Have a ridiculous warranty and build a good reputation.

Hyundai USA was a complete joke in the 80s, but in the 90s they added a 10 year powertrain warranty.

They had to learn to make reliable cars or go out of business.

Now they're bigger than Mercedes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry

[Tigersachsclub]

The road bike looks like a lot sweeter version of a Tiger Boxer (cop bike).

Maybe this bike is the reason why the Momos Boxer 250 RS is not selling well in Malaysia? Not sure of the specs, but if memory serves me well it's a 250cc 2-cylinder...

From what i read the Momos Boxer 250RS has been offered a lot later than Tiger did ( which isn't a surprise since tiger builds the bikes, but did it have to be that late?), plus Momos seems to have an issue with the service they want to provide altogether.

The http://www.demakmotor.com website seems not working shows only " account suspended" but on the pics posted it looks interesting.

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

[Richard-BKK]

Mbox,

I was joking about the Boxer 250 RS and Malaysia, I think we all can agree on Tiger Motorcycles being of excellent quality.

I also meet Demak motorcycle on the Bangkok Motorshow and while they had good products with an expectable price, they still had a long way to go. On the website, I guess they forget to pay the hosting account...

[Tigersachsclub]

Mbox,

I was joking about the Boxer 250 RS and Malaysia, I think we all can agree on Tiger Motorcycles being of excellent quality.

I also meet Demak motorcycle on the Bangkok Motorshow and while they had good products with an expectable price, they still had a long way to go. On the website, I guess they forget to pay the hosting account...

Maybe you meant different but what i recall is that Momos did sell the Boxer 200 for a while but never started selling the 250RS and that was not to long ago. Last year i had just my Boxer 250Rs (March 2009),Charlie(kano85) had his since december 2008/jan 2009 and i am sure it was available even before that. The last what i heard is people still seeking a Momos Boxer 250Rs in Malaysia was end of 2009.

Yes, looks like they Demak didn't pay the hosting...shouldn't happen really

The more bikes (& brands) we get available here from Demak , Lifan , the big4 , Tiger/Sachs, or whoever is beneficial for us as Bikers and is a good development.

As said i wouldn't buy the 400 LF Lifan for owing a XV750 Yamaha( legal one which is rather difficult to find) which is more to my like plus i had a 400 virago before and wished a bit more power (and wasn't legal).

Still the 400 virago was a nice ride and the Lifan 400 LF surely is going to be great for those who wished that the Honda Phantom had more power while easy to handle. I hope they build something else based on the on a 400cc (or higher) engine . The only other above 250cc that is in the low'ish pricerange and made here is coming from Kawasaki.

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

[Richard-BKK]

With big four you mean Honda,Yamaha,Suzuki and Tiger? Because Kawasaki dropped to the 5th place in sold units. Guess this has something to do with Kawasaki stopped the production and sales of the step-through motorcycles in Thailand.

Edited May 2, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[DefaultName]

To answer the OP, I'm still a few years from a move to LOS, but if I was there now I'd definitely consider it at 150,000.

One thing that we can't see from the photo's though is the size. Being over 6 foot and heavy, I'll need a physically large bike as well as a reasonable engine size.

[Tigersachsclub]

Richard, any news if the Lifan 400 (cruiser) is actually going to be available in thailand? It looks better than the Lifan 250 (cruiser) , as the 400 has the similar look of the Yamaha Virago 400/535 while the Lifan 250 (cruiser) looks not as good(at least to my opinion).

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

[thaicbr]

Some years ago i would not have bought a Japanese car, Some years ago i would not have Bought a Malaysian car.

The point is this is now. Not some years ago. Check them out for what they are now.

Mbox the Rukya are actually mostly Jongsen bikes. And i agree they seem to be very well made. But who ever is importing them to Thailand knows nothing about offroad biking otherwise they would have specced different size wheels.

Richard.. what about getting a factory visit arranged with Lifan Thailand. I would be very interested in seeing the factory here. I have been to the Tiger factory a few times.

Allan

[Kf6vci]

Cheap often turns out to be more expensive. Think depreciation and the need to buy another bike after a few years. Disclaimer: I have yet to ride a Lifan, I'm just very unhappy about many Chinese products, including the DSL modem badly designed so it uses 10 x more electricity and is getting very hot over some few cents in cost savings on parts and design. show me this bike after a few years' use and tell me its resale value then.

D*mn, Honda is sleeping. Why aren't they put a bigger engine into the Phantom? A good bike is for a decade, not just a few seasons.

[mezcal]

I don't like choppers, especially the riding position. Trust has to be earned, and so far Chinese products haven't started to earn points in my book.

I also doubt Thais would buy them...haven't seen many Platinums around...

The Enduro Lifan model on the other tread looks good though.

[Tigersachsclub]

Cheap often turns out to be more expensive. Think depreciation and the need to buy another bike after a few years. Disclaimer: I have yet to ride a Lifan, I'm just very unhappy about many Chinese products, including the DSL modem badly designed so it uses 10 x more electricity and is getting very hot over some few cents in cost savings on parts and design. show me this bike after a few years' use and tell me its resale value then.

D*mn, Honda is sleeping. Why aren't they put a bigger engine into the Phantom? A good bike is for a decade, not just a few seasons.

I do agree ...design is not the strong points at least on dsl modems and motorbikes thats why Chinese copy things. I wonder how much of the Lifans is built here or is that just assembly?

Seeing the lifan 400 is an (almost or full?)identical copy of the 400 yamaha virago i think it is safe to say "we know what to expect performance wise" which isn't really all that exciting.

Still,If i had the choice taking a 200 phantom or a 400 virago ...i'd go for the virago.

How Lifans built quality and how well the components used lasting, will remain to be seen.

The resale value is likely to be dropping quite a bit but you are likely to pay less initially too. Not that it makes up , but it reduces the gap slightly.

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

[Tigersachsclub]

I don't like choppers, especially the riding position. Trust has to be earned, and so far Chinese products haven't started to earn points in my book.

I also doubt Thais would buy them...haven't seen many Platinums around...

The Enduro Lifan model on the other tread looks good though.

You right it is a rocky road for Lifan here..Platinum ,Jrd they haven't done so well in presenting unknown Brands- reason behind was the built quality . Lifan is probably already better known as engine supplier for the 3 wheeled bikes, which i see quite often here. Thais love their Honda and it is unlikely this is going to change, even though they are lacking a good range of bikes here....no sportsbike, no naked bike, no chopper, no offroad bike , no larger than 150(?) cc Bikes, only FI Scooters/stepthroughs available, and that i find meager.

There is a chance for Lifan as they have a interesting product range ...but it will come down to the quality & reliability of their products. Will be interesting to see who is brave enough to get the first bikes from Lifan? Hope those brave ones will post back here,

happy trails,

Tiger/Sachs Club - Mbox

[Richard-BKK]

For export to the European and American market, and qualify as a Thai product, Lifan needs to export a product that is make from 90% of Thai made components.

Therefore, the factory in Rayong is quite big, they not only make motorcycles, but also some car engines. Comparing the Lifan factory to other factories that manufacture motorcycles in Thailand Lifan has probably one of the biggest factories. But than they also make car engines, which apparently gives them again an advantage in export to Europe and North-America (not sure about that).

I did not hear anybody at Lifan Thailand (sales) talking about introducing the LF400 on the Thai market. But in motorcycle business its hard to tell if something is going to happen and even more difficult is to say when it's going to happen.

By the way Platinum and JRD are no Chinese manufacturers, they never sold a motorcycle on global level, Platinum never exported a single bike, and JRD is only available in a few ASEAN countries. Lifan sells its motorcycles in almost all countries around the world.

[BSJ]

Cheap often turns out to be more expensive. Think depreciation and the need to buy another bike after a few years. Disclaimer: I have yet to ride a Lifan, I'm just very unhappy about many Chinese products, including the DSL modem badly designed so it uses 10 x more electricity and is getting very hot over some few cents in cost savings on parts and design. show me this bike after a few years' use and tell me its resale value then.

D*mn, Honda is sleeping. Why aren't they put a bigger engine into the Phantom? A good bike is for a decade, not just a few seasons.

Instead of a bigger engine, how bout one of these?

[witold]

Well, it looks decent enough - in the pictures.

But...

-400cc twin is still too gutless to go anywhere.

-price tag sucks. Just a little more and you can get Kawi Er6n which is quite a respectable big bike.

-chances are that Chinese workmanship sucks just like it sucks on every other Chinese import. Stuff wears quicker and breaks quicker. The 'feel' of the ride is probably not that good because of dodgy suspension, etc. Consequently, the bikes do not hold much value so when time comes to get rid of it, you will be taking a bigger loss.

I hate to bad mouth Chinese bikes because the potential is there. They generally license old Honda engine designs that are bulletproof. One day one of these Chinese companies will figure out it's quality control issues and deliver a great bike at a low price, but I am skeptical that that day has come with this Lifan.

[visions]

Well, it looks decent enough - in the pictures.

But...

-400cc twin is still too gutless to go anywhere.

-price tag sucks. Just a little more and you can get Kawi Er6n which is quite a respectable big bike.

-chances are that Chinese workmanship sucks just like it sucks on every other Chinese import. Stuff wears quicker and breaks quicker. The 'feel' of the ride is probably not that good because of dodgy suspension, etc. Consequently, the bikes do not hold much value so when time comes to get rid of it, you will be taking a bigger loss.

I hate to bad mouth Chinese bikes because the potential is there. They generally license old Honda engine designs that are bulletproof. One day one of these Chinese companies will figure out it's quality control issues and deliver a great bike at a low price, but I am skeptical that that day has come with this Lifan.

Maybe you should tell that to the Chinese companies making BMWs and other so called "higher class" cars?

Can you remember when the Japanese and Koreans were rubbished for their inferior "copies" Now of course lead the world.in many things.

In another thread, comments about a Korean bike entering the Thai market, saying how good it is

Japan stated copying western consumer products roughly 60 years ago....and came to lead the world after a very shaky start.......China has been at it less than 10 years and already leads the way in many technoligies.

China has so far concentrated on price advantage......with lower quality......It wont be long before we are choosing "made in China" over other areas because of the quality products. But the market is so vast that it may eventuate to be multi teired..based on cost OR quality. Your choice what you buy. Even now there is a "perceived' quality peking order in Japanese bikes

Anyway...the more competitors and choice we have in the market, the better for all of us. Buy whatever rocks ur boat.

[CMX]

A. If Lifan is producing bikes in order to expand in markets in Europe and the U.S., they cannot be so foolish as to be unaware that a lack of quality will sink them. The company has been testing those waters for ten years now, and is still growing.

B. They are very big and very well funded and not at all the fly-by-night variety of Chinese bikes that have been introduced and failed. Their only hope is to introduce a quality product that will earn a reputation at a cheaper price, not simply produce a cheaper price.

C. Still, lacking a track record on these models, the jury must remain undecided, no? I assume that the price of a 400 would purchase considerably more than 1/4 of a new rain-resistant Mazda 2.

Edited August 17, 2010 by CMX

[Richard-BKK]

The problem is that people think that the well established motorcycle companies always tell the truth or the complete story, but, let me explain. The Kawasaki ER-6N is build around a diamond shaped, high-tensile steel frame – but what does that mean? High-tensile steel is basically common steel with 1% chromium - molybdenum medium hardenability creates general purpose high tensile steel.

On the positive side high-tensile steel is characterized by high strength and good impact properties, the added chromium also acts as a rust inhibitor. But on the downside high-tensile steel used, by Kawasaki as example, has a very low weldability. And if we look back to the Kawasaki recalls from Thai made motorcycles a good amount involved the frame weldings.

So what is Lifan using to make its motorcycle frames less then a few kilometers from the Kawasaki factory in Rayong? Lifan uses the exact same material and funny they even use the same sources, and to make it even more funny a supplier for both companies is a Korean company who also manufacturers complete motorcycles (not in Thailand).

The moral of this is that everything made from the same raw materials costs the same, a kg 4140 steel for on supplier cost about the same for the other supplier. Lifan doesn't make the cheapest motorcycles, and doesn't use the cheapest raw materials. And because Lifan needed a good amount of automotive/motorcycle workers, they even offer better salaries.

Comparing the performance of a 650cc Kawasaki ER-6N to a 400cc Lifan LF400 is completely unfair, the Lifan is a low-revving cruiser. I bet that when we compare the performance of the Kawasaki ER-6N with the Zongshen on which they raced in the World Superbike Championship - your ER-6N will fall a bit short on horsepower and overall performance. ER-6N vs World Super Bike unfair? You get the point.