Thai Govt, PM Abhisit Not Looking At The Big Picture

[quiksilva]

TAN_Network

Chalerm claims that Pheu Thai will decide on no confidence motion on May 3; opposition to propose Pheu Thai member as PM

Who is a very good question...

[Tejas]

Sorry to interject my opinion at this point.

I just want to say "he is looking at the big picture."

That is why massive force has not yet been used to remove the Reds.

In a clever move, the Reds in Bangkok are now isolated and surrounded by the military/police.

The PM knows that women and children are in the Red camp (hard to believe the "men" would allow them to remain there).

He also knows that a certain unnamed PM living outside of Thailand is trying very hard to cause the military to use full force against the Reds.

And he knows that if the military does that the media will be filled with stories about a mass murder committed by the military to thwart democracy (total BS but that is what he is being set up for).

I am not sure what will happen, but all the military needs to do now is make sure the Reds are surrounded--while preventing food or weapons from getting inside the camp--and play a waiting game.

But the person I am not going to mention desperately wants bloodshed...........

Personally, I think the PM is smart and looking at the entire picture.

He has shown an incredible ability to not do resort to strong violence.

I am sure he is being pressured to do something by powerful men and women who are losing money now in Bangkok.

This is a chess game or sorts.

[IMA_FARANG]

Yes, probably the PM and the government is missng the "big picture". So apprently are the Red Shirts. In fact, as normal in Thai politics, what we really have here is a number of Thai politicians, each with their own group of followers (can I say "lackeys") who are mainly interested in their own self promotion and what advantages they can obtain for themselves and their own group. Nothing unusual about that in Thai politics (or most politics anywhere in the world).

But one thing that is in "the big picture" although few are realising it yet, is that the power of Issan and it's farmers/poor people has grown enormously in the last few weeks. Even those Thai politicians who are not on the side of the Reds...or their politics..are now starting to realise that the Issan people are more powerful than they had realised before. That will make a signifigant difference in the future to Thai politics...no matter who wins the latest confrontation. The genie is out of the bottle now, and there will have to be changes made to adjust to the new realities. Those changes may be bad or good, but the future will not be the "same old same old" any longer. Yes, Thailand will have to change...the old sanook-sanook won't work any longer.

Whether that will be bad or good in the long run...we'll just have to wait and see.

As the old Chinese saying goes,"May you be cursed to live in interesting times".

[whybother]

Yes, probably the PM and the government is missng the "big picture". So apprently are the Red Shirts. In fact, as normal in Thai politics, what we really have here is a number of Thai politicians, each with their own group of followers (can I say "lackeys") who are mainly interested in their own self promotion and what advantages they can obtain for themselves and their own group. Nothing unusual about that in Thai politics (or most politics anywhere in the world).

But one thing that is in "the big picture" although few are realising it yet, is that the power of Issan and it's farmers/poor people has grown enormously in the last few weeks. Even those Thai politicians who are not on the side of the Reds...or their politics..are now starting to realise that the Issan people are more powerful than they had realised before. That will make a signifigant difference in the future to Thai politics...no matter who wins the latest confrontation. The genie is out of the bottle now, and there will have to be changes made to adjust to the new realities. Those changes may be bad or good, but the future will not be the "same old same old" any longer. Yes, Thailand will have to change...the old sanook-sanook won't work any longer.

Whether that will be bad or good in the long run...we'll just have to wait and see.

As the old Chinese saying goes,"May you be cursed to live in interesting times".

Actually, the only change that I can see possible is that the reds will lose their hold over the people of Isaan.

At the moment, the people of Isaan have a vote. They generally vote for TRT/PPP etc. They have representation in parliament.

If they have woken up and are more powerful, then this can only be of a detriment to the people that they used to vote for.

They will either vote the same, therefore no change, or they will change to vote for non-red.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Yes, probably the PM and the government is missng the "big picture". So apprently are the Red Shirts. In fact, as normal in Thai politics, what we really have here is a number of Thai politicians, each with their own group of followers (can I say "lackeys") who are mainly interested in their own self promotion and what advantages they can obtain for themselves and their own group. Nothing unusual about that in Thai politics (or most politics anywhere in the world).

But one thing that is in "the big picture" although few are realising it yet, is that the power of Issan and it's farmers/poor people has grown enormously in the last few weeks. Even those Thai politicians who are not on the side of the Reds...or their politics..are now starting to realise that the Issan people are more powerful than they had realised before. That will make a signifigant difference in the future to Thai politics...no matter who wins the latest confrontation. The genie is out of the bottle now, and there will have to be changes made to adjust to the new realities. Those changes may be bad or good, but the future will not be the "same old same old" any longer. Yes, Thailand will have to change...the old sanook-sanook won't work any longer.

Whether that will be bad or good in the long run...we'll just have to wait and see.

As the old Chinese saying goes,"May you be cursed to live in interesting times".

Agree, even Sondhi has noticed the change. Only the lackeys of Abhisit continue their rhetorics...(until Abhisit tell them to change...)

[way2muchcoffee]

Yes, probably the PM and the government is missng the "big picture". So apprently are the Red Shirts. In fact, as normal in Thai politics, what we really have here is a number of Thai politicians, each with their own group of followers (can I say "lackeys") who are mainly interested in their own self promotion and what advantages they can obtain for themselves and their own group. Nothing unusual about that in Thai politics (or most politics anywhere in the world).

But one thing that is in "the big picture" although few are realising it yet, is that the power of Issan and it's farmers/poor people has grown enormously in the last few weeks. Even those Thai politicians who are not on the side of the Reds...or their politics..are now starting to realise that the Issan people are more powerful than they had realised before. That will make a signifigant difference in the future to Thai politics...no matter who wins the latest confrontation. The genie is out of the bottle now, and there will have to be changes made to adjust to the new realities. Those changes may be bad or good, but the future will not be the "same old same old" any longer. Yes, Thailand will have to change...the old sanook-sanook won't work any longer.

Whether that will be bad or good in the long run...we'll just have to wait and see.

As the old Chinese saying goes,"May you be cursed to live in interesting times".

Agree, even Sondhi has noticed the change. Only the lackeys of Abhisit continue their rhetorics...(until Abhisit tell them to change...)

Tut tut. For all your talk of compromise and justice and wanting to reduce tension your true colors are showing.

Many people believe that legal governments should not dissolve themselves over terrorist threats. So anyone who holds that belief is a 'lackey of Ahbisit'?

[Tod Daniels]

If indeed the big picture is to bow down to the red-mob (correction the now colorless-mob) which is clearly a minority of the overall thai population, than I guess he's not seeing the big picture.

Abhisit already has said FOR THE GOOD OF THE COUNTRY, and NOT just the benefit of the few, he would be willing to forego his full term dissolve the Lower House and call for elections (the Demz full term is actually until the END of 2011).

Quite the compromise if you look at it from the point of view that the Demz are running the government under the same set of laws which were in place when the PPP ran it under Samak/Somchai. That was until the PPP ran afoul of something called the LAW, and until Newin Chidchob flipped to the Demz side with nearly 40 MP's giving them a majority just LIKE the PPP had when he was on their side.

Sadly for the colorless-rabble, and their equally clueless and all too many leaders; (Whacky Dr Weng, Issan Rambo; Suporn, former pop star turned rappelling aficionado; Arisman, and the hate spewing Jatuporn) that is not good enough.

FWIW: I think Veera Musikapong is the key to unlocking this entire thing, although he's rarely allowed to speak anymore on stage being a proponent of actual negotiation as opposed to violence. He's not often even in the pics of the red leaders mugging like chimps for the cameras down there at Rachaprasong. Sad really.

Now if looking at the big picture is a soft handed approach designed to contain and eventually disperse protestors with a minimum loss of life, well. .. Other than the April 10 rout of the thai soldiers when faced with the mysterious ‘third-hand’ ‘ronin-warriors’, or ‘men-in-black’ (Seh Daeng’s storm troopers) , I’d say he’s doing a remarkable job trying to run the ENTIRE country to the benefit of the thai populace.

[rabo]

Sondhi's probably right about the Big Picture, but I think that's Abhisit's whole raison d' etre isn't it, to be that transformative PM? I'm not saying he can pull it off, but he represents the political dialogue aspect to this solution. The guns in the street aspect may prove too much for him though.

Abhisit has failed. He cannot represent the dialog: on contrary he is an obstacle to a solution

Only because Thaksin's revenge requires that he be the TARGET #1 of that power grab maneuver.

A coup d'Etat by street violence is aimed at removing the primary leader. It is it's nature.

It is also in the nature of such a primary leadership position to not give in to such illegitimate pressure tactics.

Stop your Rhetoric, even Sondhi admits that Thaksin is no more the issue.

Your partisan support to Abhisit is becoming pathetic: I was expecting better from you.

Do you have a reference to where Sondhi says Thaksin is no more the issue? Just want to see what he may mean by that.

I have seen that Sondhi is quoted as "forgiving the important person now overseas" for masterminding his assassination attempt.

[way2muchcoffee]

Do you have a reference to where Sondhi says Thaksin is no more the issue? Just want to see what he may mean by that.

I have seen that Sondhi is quoted as "forgiving the important person now overseas" for masterminding his assassination attempt.

Just go to the live news updates for today Rabo. It was reported in a series of tweets from The Nation.

[rabo]

Do you have a reference to where Sondhi says Thaksin is no more the issue? Just want to see what he may mean by that.

I have seen that Sondhi is quoted as "forgiving the important person now overseas" for masterminding his assassination attempt.

Just go to the live news updates for today Rabo. It was reported in a series of tweets from The Nation.

Thanks. Perhaps not enough coffee this morning. For clarity I have copied the Nation's tweet comments here.

THE NATION: 1. Thailand's problem is far beyond Thaksin now, and even if he dies, it will not end.

THE NATION: 2. Democrats are largely responsible for escalation of the problem, through their efforts to look "neutral", which failed badly.

THE NATION: 3. "let's make clear that whoever wants 2 protect monarchy must step ths way" & proceed from there to stop the opposite movement.

[animatic]

Sorry to interject my opinion at this point.

I just want to say "he is looking at the big picture."

That is why massive force has not yet been used to remove the Reds.

In a clever move, the Reds in Bangkok are now isolated and surrounded by the military/police.

The PM knows that women and children are in the Red camp (hard to believe the "men" would allow them to remain there).

He also knows that a certain unnamed PM living outside of Thailand is trying very hard to cause the military to use full force against the Reds.

And he knows that if the military does that the media will be filled with stories about a mass murder committed by the military to thwart democracy (total BS but that is what he is being set up for).

I am not sure what will happen, but all the military needs to do now is make sure the Reds are surrounded--while preventing food or weapons from getting inside the camp--and play a waiting game.

But the person I am not going to mention desperately wants bloodshed...........

Personally, I think the PM is smart and looking at the entire picture.

He has shown an incredible ability to not do resort to strong violence.

I am sure he is being pressured to do something by powerful men and women who are losing money now in Bangkok.

This is a chess game or sorts.

I agree. Abhisit and Anupong know that there is a fine balance between 'appearing impotent',

and handing Thaksin a coup by propaganda via army massacre of allegedly unarmed civilians.

It is obvious Team Thaksin they are trying every trick they can think of to make this happen.

And there is no coincidence that Thaksin: the future Conquering Hero/ Savior of Thailand,

must be distanced visibly from the chaos they must create to make this chimera a reality.

This distancing is quite intentional and I am suprised Sondhi is buying into it,

unless THAT is ALSO part of a counter game plan. Make them think you buy it,

and make counter plans quietly.

Like Russian Dolls all players are hiding inside other players.

[lazurus]

I also like the idea of decentralised power to Regions (But not the current administrative division of Thailand, larger regions...something like 10 or 12 regions- Example Issan as a block). I have understood also that it was a key factor in the origin of the Southern unrest.

The decentralised (limited) power brings the democracy closer to People, eases their involvement in the surveillance of Politics and gives better results for the local infrastructure investment decisions.

If you give the regions more power who will bear the responsibility for funding the regions? It seems to me that the largest source of revenue must be the Bangkok area. If you grant regions more autonomy will Bangkok have to pay their way? You see this is one of the problems with the 30 baht health scheme, it gives cheap health care to the outer provinces. But for anything more than Tylenol 30 baht doesn't cover the cost. That means someone else is picking up the cost. Probably the middle class in places like Bangkok. So the TRT gave cheap health care to the rural people to get votes, and then stuck the middle class with the bill.

[animatic]

Yes, probably the PM and the government is missng the "big picture". So apprently are the Red Shirts. In fact, as normal in Thai politics, what we really have here is a number of Thai politicians, each with their own group of followers (can I say "lackeys") who are mainly interested in their own self promotion and what advantages they can obtain for themselves and their own group. Nothing unusual about that in Thai politics (or most politics anywhere in the world).

But one thing that is in "the big picture" although few are realising it yet, is that the power of Issan and it's farmers/poor people has grown enormously in the last few weeks. Even those Thai politicians who are not on the side of the Reds...or their politics..are now starting to realise that the Issan people are more powerful than they had realised before. That will make a signifigant difference in the future to Thai politics...no matter who wins the latest confrontation. The genie is out of the bottle now, and there will have to be changes made to adjust to the new realities. Those changes may be bad or good, but the future will not be the "same old same old" any longer. Yes, Thailand will have to change...the old sanook-sanook won't work any longer.

Whether that will be bad or good in the long run...we'll just have to wait and see.

As the old Chinese saying goes,"May you be cursed to live in interesting times".

Agree, even Sondhi has noticed the change. Only the lackeys of Abhisit continue their rhetorics...(until Abhisit tell them to change...)

Sorry no running dog lackey of the great Satan here, try as you might to imply that.

Sondhi clearly plays his cards close to the vest, even if some he sometimes he waves wildly,

I think he is much better informed than 99.44/100% of TVF posters about what is really happening.

But that doesn't mean he is SAYING what he really thinks publicly.

[way2muchcoffee]

I also like the idea of decentralised power to Regions (But not the current administrative division of Thailand, larger regions...something like 10 or 12 regions- Example Issan as a block). I have understood also that it was a key factor in the origin of the Southern unrest.

The decentralised (limited) power brings the democracy closer to People, eases their involvement in the surveillance of Politics and gives better results for the local infrastructure investment decisions.

If you give the regions more power who will bear the responsibility for funding the regions? It seems to me that the largest source of revenue must be the Bangkok area. If you grant regions more autonomy will Bangkok have to pay their way? You see this is one of the problems with the 30 baht health scheme, it gives cheap health care to the outer provinces. But for anything more than Tylenol 30 baht doesn't cover the cost. That means someone else is picking up the cost. Probably the middle class in places like Bangkok. So the TRT gave cheap health care to the rural people to get votes, and then stuck the middle class with the bill.

To be fair the middle and upper classes in most countries pay for the safety net and social services for the citizens, including the poor. Thailand is not too different from the rest of the world in that the rich get unfair advantage through tax loopholes that aren't available to the middle class.

[lazurus]

I also like the idea of decentralised power to Regions (But not the current administrative division of Thailand, larger regions...something like 10 or 12 regions- Example Issan as a block). I have understood also that it was a key factor in the origin of the Southern unrest.

The decentralised (limited) power brings the democracy closer to People, eases their involvement in the surveillance of Politics and gives better results for the local infrastructure investment decisions.

If you give the regions more power who will bear the responsibility for funding the regions? It seems to me that the largest source of revenue must be the Bangkok area. If you grant regions more autonomy will Bangkok have to pay their way? You see this is one of the problems with the 30 baht health scheme, it gives cheap health care to the outer provinces. But for anything more than Tylenol 30 baht doesn't cover the cost. That means someone else is picking up the cost. Probably the middle class in places like Bangkok. So the TRT gave cheap health care to the rural people to get votes, and then stuck the middle class with the bill.

To be fair the middle and upper classes in most countries pay for the safety net and social services for the citizens, including the poor. Thailand is not too different from the rest of the world in that the rich get unfair advantage through tax loopholes that aren't available to the middle class.

That's why starting a class war is such a bad idea. If you rise up and destroy the middle class everyone loses out in the long run. But using those social services to buy voter loyalty isn't right. Let's say the democrats promised everyone in the north a new pickup if they get elected. Then to pay for that promise they use the budget and take the money from the middle class. Same principle.

[lannarebirth]

Yes, probably the PM and the government is missng the "big picture". So apprently are the Red Shirts. In fact, as normal in Thai politics, what we really have here is a number of Thai politicians, each with their own group of followers (can I say "lackeys") who are mainly interested in their own self promotion and what advantages they can obtain for themselves and their own group. Nothing unusual about that in Thai politics (or most politics anywhere in the world).

But one thing that is in "the big picture" although few are realising it yet, is that the power of Issan and it's farmers/poor people has grown enormously in the last few weeks. Even those Thai politicians who are not on the side of the Reds...or their politics..are now starting to realise that the Issan people are more powerful than they had realised before. That will make a signifigant difference in the future to Thai politics...no matter who wins the latest confrontation. The genie is out of the bottle now, and there will have to be changes made to adjust to the new realities. Those changes may be bad or good, but the future will not be the "same old same old" any longer. Yes, Thailand will have to change...the old sanook-sanook won't work any longer.

Whether that will be bad or good in the long run...we'll just have to wait and see.

As the old Chinese saying goes,"May you be cursed to live in interesting times".

Agree, even Sondhi has noticed the change. Only the lackeys of Abhisit continue their rhetorics...(until Abhisit tell them to change...)

Jerry, You can't see that there may be some possible merit in someone both the PAD and UDD cannot live with? Let's see if Abhisit can make any progress in winning converts. He's going to have to get his message out there though.

Edited April 29, 2010 by lannarebirth

[rabo]

Sorry to interject my opinion at this point.

I just want to say "he is looking at the big picture."

That is why massive force has not yet been used to remove the Reds.

In a clever move, the Reds in Bangkok are now isolated and surrounded by the military/police.

The PM knows that women and children are in the Red camp (hard to believe the "men" would allow them to remain there).

He also knows that a certain unnamed PM living outside of Thailand is trying very hard to cause the military to use full force against the Reds.

And he knows that if the military does that the media will be filled with stories about a mass murder committed by the military to thwart democracy (total BS but that is what he is being set up for).

I am not sure what will happen, but all the military needs to do now is make sure the Reds are surrounded--while preventing food or weapons from getting inside the camp--and play a waiting game.

But the person I am not going to mention desperately wants bloodshed...........

Personally, I think the PM is smart and looking at the entire picture.

He has shown an incredible ability to not do resort to strong violence.

I am sure he is being pressured to do something by powerful men and women who are losing money now in Bangkok.

This is a chess game or sorts.

I agree. Abhisit and Anupong know that there is a fine balance between 'appearing impotent',

and handing Thaksin a coup by propaganda via army massacre of allegedly unarmed civilians.

It is obvious Team Thaksin they are trying every trick they can think of to make this happen.

And there is no coincidence that Thaksin: the future Conquering Hero/ Savior of Thailand,

must be distanced visibly from the chaos they must create to make this chimera a reality.

This distancing is quite intentional and I am suprised Sondhi is buying into it,

unless THAT is ALSO part of a counter game plan. Make them think you buy it,

and make counter plans quietly.

Like Russian Dolls all players are hiding inside other players.

Agree with all the above, and Sondhi's comments would seem to be positioning statements, i.e.:

Thaksin's problem was made worse by the Democrats and has now become the ultimate problem of protecting the monarchy.

Oh, by the way, do you remember we have lots of extra yellow shirts. (a popular symbol of love for the monarchy)

Or, like previous statements forgiving the "important man overseas" for the assassination attempt on his life, distance from Thaksin may simply be a matter of survival.

Edited April 29, 2010 by rabo

[Jerrytheyoung]

I also like the idea of decentralised power to Regions (But not the current administrative division of Thailand, larger regions...something like 10 or 12 regions- Example Issan as a block). I have understood also that it was a key factor in the origin of the Southern unrest.

The decentralised (limited) power brings the democracy closer to People, eases their involvement in the surveillance of Politics and gives better results for the local infrastructure investment decisions.

If you give the regions more power who will bear the responsibility for funding the regions? It seems to me that the largest source of revenue must be the Bangkok area. If you grant regions more autonomy will Bangkok have to pay their way? You see this is one of the problems with the 30 baht health scheme, it gives cheap health care to the outer provinces. But for anything more than Tylenol 30 baht doesn't cover the cost. That means someone else is picking up the cost. Probably the middle class in places like Bangkok. So the TRT gave cheap health care to the rural people to get votes, and then stuck the middle class with the bill.

To be fair the middle and upper classes in most countries pay for the safety net and social services for the citizens, including the poor. Thailand is not too different from the rest of the world in that the rich get unfair advantage through tax loopholes that aren't available to the middle class.

Agree, and in France, one part -well defined- are going to the Regions. Idem in USA, each States has its own budget. Remain the Federal Budget (USA) or the French Government Budget far more important that the regional ones. If we are fellow citizen of one country, it means SOLIDARITY between citizens. Most of countries have an healthcare system and sure the poors are subsidised, nothing abnormal in that.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[eggomaniac]

IMO, Abhisit wants to be removed by a coup, then let them declare martial law and clean up the mess. He rather go down in history as inept than as the monster who killed xxxx Thai people. I think he bungled it from the get-go, giving the reds too much free reign.

Yes, you are right. Even if this situation eventually clears up, he has pissed off so many people, and acted so indecisively and made so many suffer that he can never say: "See, I told you that we could solve the problem if we wait." 1-2 months suffering should not have happened! It should have been resolved in week!

you are so wrong to think the problems could have been solved in a week, so so wrong...

what? with some draconian crack down, is what it appears you are implying!?

80 years of gangland politics 'fixed' up with one massacre?

When Abhisit was put behind the wheel of the bus, it was already going down hill with no brakes. He DOES see the whole picture but there is just no way to steer around the hairpin turns. There IS a Solution whereby the reds would cease and desist, the yellows would be happy, and Thaksin's influence would be mitigated.

[eggomaniac]

I also like the idea of decentralised power to Regions (But not the current administrative division of Thailand, larger regions...something like 10 or 12 regions- Example Issan as a block). I have understood also that it was a key factor in the origin of the Southern unrest.

The decentralised (limited) power brings the democracy closer to People, eases their involvement in the surveillance of Politics and gives better results for the local infrastructure investment decisions.

Decentralization could help. It would require a lot more effort to combat corruption though. Also if there were large divisions they should be population based and not land based so that each region fairly represents a similar portion of the population.

The Joseph Solution has designs for decentralization, with Senatorial checks and balances, along with 'filters' that automatically weed corruption.

Some aspects are 'borrowed' from the highly successful, long, long lasting Six Nations form of representational democracy.

[eggomaniac]

Do you have a reference to where Sondhi says Thaksin is no more the issue? Just want to see what he may mean by that.

I have seen that Sondhi is quoted as "forgiving the important person now overseas" for masterminding his assassination attempt.

Just go to the live news updates for today Rabo. It was reported in a series of tweets from The Nation.

Thanks. Perhaps not enough coffee this morning. For clarity I have copied the Nation's tweet comments here.

THE NATION: 1. Thailand's problem is far beyond Thaksin now, and even if he dies, it will not end.

THE NATION: 2. Democrats are largely responsible for escalation of the problem, through their efforts to look "neutral", which failed badly.

THE NATION: 3. "let's make clear that whoever wants 2 protect monarchy must step ths way" & proceed from there to stop the opposite movement.

2 questions, are these Sondhi's comments?

How can I sue the Nation, if they want to use my Comments which I have Posted several times, for months now, they should at least give me a byline.

THE NATION: 1. Thailand's problem is far beyond Thaksin now, and even if he dies, it will not end.

duh, are folks finally going to realize this, instead of laughing at the truth.

It didn't take a PM having to live in a Bunker when I saw this nearly a year ago, and PUBLISHED it, for the record that is.

If Sondhi is saying saying these things it just adds to the theory some of us have discussed in private messages. WATCH the military reshuffle in the Fall, that will be where you see the present and the future of Thailand most clearly!

---

"the important man overseas" you think that was Thaksin 555 maybe? maybe not?

Edited April 29, 2010 by eggomaniac

[Chopper71]

I have to confess, I'm stunned by this article...a fair, sensible and balanced article coming from the Nation...what is the world coming to?

Could it be that it may be dawning on those at the Nation that Abhisit's days in power may be coming to an end, and that soon the Reds will be in power? Being a bit more in the middle may be the best option as being too anti Red shirt may backfire down the line, just a thought!

[Oberkommando]

WATCH the military reshuffle in the Fall, that will be where you see the present and the future of Thailand most clearly!

Same as it ever was.

And that is precisely why we find ourselves in the situation we are in now with Thailand a failed state.

History doesn't lie. The military tail wagging the dog has led us to crisis, just as it has many times before.

[Insight]

I have to confess, I'm stunned by this article...a fair, sensible and balanced article coming from the Nation...what is the world coming to?

Could it be that it may be dawning on those at the Nation that Abhisit's days in power may be coming to an end, and that soon the Reds will be in power? Being a bit more in the middle may be the best option as being too anti Red shirt may backfire down the line, just a thought!

The only defence the reds have now are the people at Ratchaprasong - The govt does not want to risk major loss of life.

While the cops have proven themselves to be thoroughly useless there's been very little solid evidence of this "Watermelon army". There's plenty of evidence on the other hand of a militant force helping to protect the reds, but clearly not enough of them to counter the armed forces against them yesterday.

Public sentiment against the reds in Bangkok is really not hard to come by, and the troops are receiving constant support daily. It's how to handle the mess at Ratchaprasong that's the issue.

[jucel]

to hide the fact that the Democrats were not properly elected to office in the first place

OMG how is it that there are still people that don't understand the electoral system here in Thailand. Every MP was elected by his/her constituents and the current government is a coalition of parties whose MPs together form a voting majority and represent the majority of Thais. This government was elected, formed in accordance to the constitution (both pre and post coup) and is the result of the PT party's former manifestation being found guilty of vote buying (evidence of which is on video I believe).

You are missing the point! The MPs would not have been voted for by the constituents if they knew they were going to form a coalition with Abhisit. The only reason a lot of the MPs changed sides was because they knew there was not going to be elections. They were all just jockeying for position to keep their power.

[shawndoc]

You are missing the point! The MPs would not have been voted for by the constituents if they knew they were going to form a coalition with Abhisit. The only reason a lot of the MPs changed sides was because they knew there was not going to be elections. They were all just jockeying for position to keep their power.

Really, which MPs/Party promised they would never form a coalition government with the Democrats?

I know there was a big to do when a group that promised they would not join with the PPP/PTP to form a coalition, did just that.

[yoshiwara]

to hide the fact that the Democrats were not properly elected to office in the first place

OMG how is it that there are still people that don't understand the electoral system here in Thailand. Every MP was elected by his/her constituents and the current government is a coalition of parties whose MPs together form a voting majority and represent the majority of Thais. This government was elected, formed in accordance to the constitution (both pre and post coup) and is the result of the PT party's former manifestation being found guilty of vote buying (evidence of which is on video I believe).

You are missing the point! The MPs would not have been voted for by the constituents if they knew they were going to form a coalition with Abhisit. The only reason a lot of the MPs changed sides was because they knew there was not going to be elections. They were all just jockeying for position to keep their power.

This is your interpretation. It is not a legal requirement as far as parliamentary action is concerned.

You, of course, wish to conflate your interpretation with the legal situation because you are batting for Thaksin.

[Siam Simon]

I also like the idea of decentralised power to Regions (But not the current administrative division of Thailand, larger regions...something like 10 or 12 regions- Example Issan as a block). I have understood also that it was a key factor in the origin of the Southern unrest.

The decentralised (limited) power brings the democracy closer to People, eases their involvement in the surveillance of Politics and gives better results for the local infrastructure investment decisions.

If you give the regions more power who will bear the responsibility for funding the regions? It seems to me that the largest source of revenue must be the Bangkok area. If you grant regions more autonomy will Bangkok have to pay their way? You see this is one of the problems with the 30 baht health scheme, it gives cheap health care to the outer provinces. But for anything more than Tylenol 30 baht doesn't cover the cost. That means someone else is picking up the cost. Probably the middle class in places like Bangkok. So the TRT gave cheap health care to the rural people to get votes, and then stuck the middle class with the bill.

To be fair the middle and upper classes in most countries pay for the safety net and social services for the citizens, including the poor. Thailand is not too different from the rest of the world in that the rich get unfair advantage through tax loopholes that aren't available to the middle class.

Not to mention the fact that in Thailand, the lower classes earn wages so disproportionately small in comparison to the middle and upper classes considering their overall contribution to the national effort (to say the least), that a bit of subsidised healthcare and loans doesn't even get near to what the civilised world would consider a healthy balance. Amazing Thailand.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Siam Simon

[yesdavy]

to hide the fact that the Democrats were not properly elected to office in the first place

OMG how is it that there are still people that don't understand the electoral system here in Thailand. Every MP was elected by his/her constituents and the current government is a coalition of parties whose MPs together form a voting majority and represent the majority of Thais. This government was elected, formed in accordance to the constitution (both pre and post coup) and is the result of the PT party's former manifestation being found guilty of vote buying (evidence of which is on video I believe).

The posters who keep claiming that the Abhisit government is not legitimate will never give up on this point, for one simple reason, they wan't the electoral laws to magically be what they want them to be, to suit their own views.

They will never recognize that Khun Abhisit became PM by the processes provided for in Thailands electoral laws which need to be there, and have been in place for a long time, because they don't want to!

They will never recognize that the same laws exist in many other democratic countries, because they don't want to!

Further, the rural poor who believed that thaksin would be their savior and they would suddenly all have money, wealth, land, whatever, do have some to be disappointed. Their hopes have been destroyed.

But should be angry with Abhisit? NO.

They should be angry with the local stooges who falsely promised them the world, got caught buying votes and as a result destroyed their hopes.

In fact Abhisit (and Khun Korn) have made a lot of porgress to start up structured reform which will ultimately get many of the poor into a sustainable better situation through great opportunity, better sharing of the wealth of Thailand, etc.

What Abhsit and Korn are not doing is putting band-aids on the problems, which don't provide long term solutions. (Which is what thaksin was doing - the saviour (his stooges) turn up just at the right time with a bag of rice or whatever, also called vote buying .)

Your last paragraph is 100% correct. Calling them anti-monarchists is definitely not a band-aid.

[yesdavy]

So.... WHO???

The Reds would say Chavalit, Chalerm or the like? ; Opposition to all things incarnate.

And Gov. side; Chuan, Anand, Somtam lady from soi Sarsin. Miss International Katoey 2009?

It on face value is a nice idea, in practical terms it is just as unworkable.

Thaksin would want control of his team and veto power, like his SMS business.

Tej Bunang might be workable, but I doubt he would want the job.

Devakula has the mind for it, but too closely tied to TRT...

Korn equally good except tied the other way.

The short list ain't too long.

Suchinda'd take the job...

Outsider? All politicians are too practiced at influence peddling and beholding to contributor constituents. It is time for mandatory service to the country. The only solution is a national lottery among ID holders over the age of 25 to select 500 citizens with some consideration for equal representation geographically. Bring them all to BKK for a 30-day intensive on procedures. Let them get on with the business of moving forward, with 90 day performance reviews, and limit their terms to 3 years. Then have general elections determined by popular vote and a modified electoral vote where the representatives' votes only count as one each.