PM Ahbisit - Has The Government Lost Control

[chinthai]

Chalerm is one of the most despicable politicians in Thailand, ever. Look at his sons - one Duang, allegedly shot a policeman in cold blood and then basically got away scot free because his father was a threatening politician. If anyone is like Hitler with a warped ego, then it is Chalerm.

source?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1732299.stm

[stingray]

Abhisit declares to the world that he will step down if his presence were a threat to the security of the Thailand.

In hanging on, he still clings on to the belief that he is part of the solution, when in fact he is part of the problem.

I tell it again: There are 67 Million Peaple in a country and he can't just listen to a bunch of joblesses (lazy ones who not even really want work), homelesses, grannies and some d...heads which are maybe a couple 100'000 and not even really know what is going on ,just to leave the seat for Mister T. This wouln't be fair or would be?

Personally i ask you, would you stay in LOS if Mister T turns back as a PM?

I'm not!

Edited April 30, 2010 by stingray

[gatorsoft]

Wake yourself up. When the PM gets to decide where the line gets drawn you're under a dictatorship, plain and simple.

The UK must be a dictatorship in that case, considering what happened to Abu Hamza.

While the Abu Hamza case is certainly troubling to a supporter of free speech, I'm not sure your analogy is a valid one. Hamza was arrested and tried by the UK legal system under existing laws. That's not quite the same thing as shutting down radio and TV stations in an extra-judicial manner. I think it is difficult to make the argument that the PM decided where the free speech line should be drawn in the Abu Hamza case.

Certainly free speech, like any freedom, comes with a responsibilty to not abuse the freedoms of others, and that means that anything does not go. If the freedom is abused to the point of encouraging violence and insurrection, then the legal system should be employed to punish and discourage that abuse.

[lannarebirth]

I find it interesting that at the start of all this many red supporters were saying that Abhisit was a puppet of the army and the elite and that he didn't make any decisions anyway.

Now, all of them are saying it's ALL Abhisit's fault and he has blood on HIS hands.

So, which way is it?

I go for born with a silver spoon in his mouth Ammart puppet, no idea of the life poor people in Thailand have to suffer and probably no interest, interested at staying in power while the nation goes down the pan. Self centred, incompetent and like most toffs highly unpleasant. and smug, don't forget smug.

We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. -- Anais Nin

[gatorsoft]

Chalerm is one of the most despicable politicians in Thailand, ever. Look at his sons - one Duang, allegedly shot a policeman in cold blood and then basically got away scot free because his father was a threatening politician. If anyone is like Hitler with a warped ego, then it is Chalerm.

source?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1732299.stm

Now that is an intelligent way to respond! Actually presenting some documentation instead of falling back on childish rhetoric. Of course, his son being a murderer alone doesn't make him "despicable", but if he used his influence to protect a murderer (son or not), then "despicable" becomes more appropriate. Any evidence to support that accusation?

Edited April 30, 2010 by gatorsoft

[pornsasi]

Dun know why Abhisit must always justify that he is the legal PM . Poor Abhisit . Why those foreign journalists dont understand that he has been democraticaly elected , thanks to parties bribes , military coup , and biased court . How could it be more democratic , legal and legitimate ? Why those BBC or CNN chaps dont join the big team , like most posters here , and print that red shirts are all terrorists and have no rights whatsoever . Well if they dont do it and their media's website get blocked , or they are hit by a stray live round (fired in the air but everybody can miss) , like that poor Reuter journalist on April 10 , then they will have only themselves to blame .

Edit : Typo

Edited April 30, 2010 by pornsasi

[gatorsoft]

Dun know why Abhisit must always justify that he is the legal PM . Poor Abhisit . Why those foreign journalists dont understand that he has been democraticaly elected , thanks to parties bribes , military coup , and biased court . How could it be more democratic , legal and legitimate ? Why those BBC or CNN chaps dont join the big team , like most posters here , and print that red shirts are all terrorists and have no rights whatsoever . Well if they dont do it and their media's website get blocked , or they are hit by a stray live round (fired in the air but everybody can miss) , like that poor Reuter journalist on April 10 , then they will have only themselves to blame .

Edit : Typo

LOL

Jing Jing

you forgot to mention holding an international airport hostage as part of the legal, legitimate, democratic process

Edited April 30, 2010 by gatorsoft

[Netfan]

Chalerm is one of the most despicable politicians in Thailand, ever. Look at his sons - one Duang, allegedly shot a policeman in cold blood and then basically got away scot free because his father was a threatening politician. If anyone is like Hitler with a warped ego, then it is Chalerm.

source?

Here's a few to start you off with

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P1-20442288.html

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summa...86-21991366_ITM

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,185060,00.html

http://www.parliament.go.th/news/news_detail.php?prid=95428

[rixalex]

Wake yourself up. When the PM gets to decide where the line gets drawn you're under a dictatorship, plain and simple.

The UK must be a dictatorship in that case, considering what happened to Abu Hamza.

While the Abu Hamza case is certainly troubling to a supporter of free speech, I'm not sure your analogy is a valid one.

I'm a supporter of free speech, and it didn't trouble me one iota. Why? Because as you rightly go on to state, with freedom of speech comes a responsibility. Abu Hamza ignored that responsibility, as did the red TV station. And in the case of red TV, action had to be taken swifty because of what was rapidly spiraling downwards on the streets. Waiting months whilst the lawyers delay and exploit every loop-hole might satisfy some people - others care more about attempting to restore peace and order.

[pornsasi]

Dun know why Abhisit must always justify that he is the legal PM . Poor Abhisit . Why those foreign journalists dont understand that he has been democraticaly elected , thanks to parties bribes , military coup , and biased court . How could it be more democratic , legal and legitimate ? Why those BBC or CNN chaps dont join the big team , like most posters here , and print that red shirts are all terrorists and have no rights whatsoever . Well if they dont do it and their media's website get blocked , or they are hit by a stray live round (fired in the air but everybody can miss) , like that poor Reuter journalist on April 10 , then they will have only themselves to blame .

Edit : Typo

LOL

Jing Jing

you forgot to mention holding an international airport hostage as part of the legal, legitimate, democratic process

You mean that one stunt where I saw some pictures of yellow shirts democraticaly beating some civilians ?

How forgetfull of me

[somchai69]

Posters have talked about a democratic goverment with blood on its hands

as the Red-Shirts demand that the government stand down.

These escalating demonstrations are no way to oust a government and can have dire consequences.

Look at Malaysia, back in May 1969, when an election seemed to be unpopular with the ethnic Malays.

Deaths were in the thousands....................

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_13_incident

Do we want Thailand to go down the same path????????

The Prime Minster has to stand firm, he has no choice.

[clockworkorange]

Wake yourself up. When the PM gets to decide where the line gets drawn you're under a dictatorship, plain and simple.

The UK must be a dictatorship in that case, considering what happened to Abu Hamza.

While the Abu Hamza case is certainly troubling to a supporter of free speech, I'm not sure your analogy is a valid one.

I'm a supporter of free speech, and it didn't trouble me one iota. Why? Because as you rightly go on to state, with freedom of speech comes a responsibility. Abu Hamza ignored that responsibility, as did the red TV station. And in the case of red TV, action had to be taken swifty because of what was rapidly spiraling downwards on the streets. Waiting months whilst the lawyers delay and exploit every loop-hole might satisfy some people - others care more about attempting to restore peace and order.

Now you are a supporter of free speech, eh Rix? How do you reconcile this noble belief with your habit of shutting people up by manoeuvring any and every political conversation around to certain supreme court judgements, which Thai law forbids us to discuss, and which we won't discuss here. Then, as soon as you tempt your opponents to step over this line, you get their posts deleted for breaking TV rules, leaving just your side of the argument.

Another inconsistency Rix, and so much for free speech. Over the past months, your stance on political matters has changed as a matter of convenience, morphing as soon as holes in your argument have been brought to light. I think that you just like arguing just for its own sake, and don't really have an opinion at all.

[herkycan]

My worry is in all of this is that what happens if another election is called? If the Red shirts win, surely the Yellow shirts will protest it and vice versa, if the Yellows win then the reds will be back on the street. I really don't see a win for anybody in all of this and as usual, the losers will be the common people..it's always the way

[rixalex]

Now you are a supporter of free speech, eh Rix? How do you reconcile this noble belief with your habit of shutting people up by manoeuvring any and every political conversation around to certain supreme court judgements, which Thai law forbids us to discuss, and which we won't discuss here. Then, as soon as you tempt your opponents to step over this line, you get their posts deleted for breaking TV rules, leaving just your side of the argument.

Hi Mr Clock,

You made exactly the same accusation against me yesterday:

First you have nothing more to say to cover up for your ever changing values, then you start banging on about court cases again in the hope that you will shut up any opposing viewpoint in this forum. We all know what happens next - you challenge posters to question the wisdom of court judgments, which is against Thai law. Then, you report them to the mods for breaking the rules and get their posts deleted, leaving only your posts on the forum.

It wasn't true yesterday, and it's not true today. Perhaps you should contact a mod with your troubles.

I have never reported your posts, but if they are being deleted either someone else is, or the mods are doing it themselves. Either way, it's nobody elses problem but yours. Go and read the rules. They are clear. In the meantime, stop spreading lies about me that have no foundation whatsoever and for which you have no proof at all.

Next time you do, i will happily report you because frankly you have become a tiresome bore.

[scorecard]

You obviously have never watched BBC's Hard Talk. It's famous for pinning down politicians by interrupting their waffle and demanding straight answers to straight questions. Abhisit knew what he was letting himself in for when he agreed to do the interview, but still could not give convincing answers. There was nothing unusual about the way that Abhisit was questioned.

I was an avid watcher of the show in the days of Tim Sebastian and Steven Sakur, but my interest has tailed off in recent times as i think Bedawi, great news reader though she is, is not up to this job. Just my opinion.

Kudos to Abhisit for being prepared to attempt answering tough questions, even if some of his answers weren't convincing.

Anything is better than this:

I guess some members will recall thaksins response to a valid question from a western journalist at a press conference, thaksins response 'Idiot scum'.

[SomTumTiger]

Feels like a real 'sea change' after the Reds stormed the hospital. Certainly lost momentum, and are on their heels, retreating. Let is weaken a little more, and then arrest all the leaders.

[whybother]

Now the reds have blockaded Khon Kaen airport too. Looking for a multicoloured leader.

It seems you are only allowed to protest if you are a red supporter.

RED DEMOCRACY AT WORK.

[SomTumTiger]

Yeah - I would like to hear Levelhead, Mazeltov, or any of the other "Pro-reds" explain why it is ok for these red gangs to go out "looking" for people, with an obviously violent or ill-intentioned agenda? Is that what you are so strongly advocating? Red Justice? This is the main reason the Reds will lose. They will keep going and going until they eventually hang themselves.

[lannarebirth]

Now the reds have blockaded Khon Kaen airport too. Looking for a multicoloured leader.

It seems you are only allowed to protest if you are a red supporter.

RED DEMOCRACY AT WORK.

So now that want to alienate the people of the single region that offers them even 50% support. I don't think Abhisit needs to do anything to defeat this brain trust. Just give'em a little more rope...

[gymboy33]

Now the reds have blockaded Khon Kaen airport too. Looking for a multicoloured leader.

It seems you are only allowed to protest if you are a red supporter.

RED DEMOCRACY AT WORK.

So now that want to alienate the people of the single region that offers them even 50% support. I don't think Abhisit needs to do anything to defeat this brain trust. Just give'em a little more rope...

i think khon kaen offers them a lot more then 50%!! its a red shirt heart land

[whybother]

Now the reds have blockaded Khon Kaen airport too. Looking for a multicoloured leader.

It seems you are only allowed to protest if you are a red supporter.

RED DEMOCRACY AT WORK.

So now that want to alienate the people of the single region that offers them even 50% support. I don't think Abhisit needs to do anything to defeat this brain trust. Just give'em a little more rope...

i think khon kaen offers them a lot more then 50%!! its a red shirt heart land

That still doesn't give them the right to stop people gathering.

[lannarebirth]

Now the reds have blockaded Khon Kaen airport too. Looking for a multicoloured leader.

It seems you are only allowed to protest if you are a red supporter.

RED DEMOCRACY AT WORK.

So now that want to alienate the people of the single region that offers them even 50% support. I don't think Abhisit needs to do anything to defeat this brain trust. Just give'em a little more rope...

i think khon kaen offers them a lot more then 50%!! its a red shirt heart land

http://www.tannetwork.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1028179

[kraxlhuber]

yesterday in parliament session, Chalerm said it was pointless to grill Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva as "he led the only democratic government in the world tainted by bloodshed".

i thought the reds said the government weren't DEMOCRATIC??

now Phua Thai MP Chalerm says they are??

wasn't that democracy thing something that the reds were fighting for ?

now Chalerm says they already have it?

is it time for the reds to to go home then?

oh sorry, for a moment, i forgot that the red version of democracy is much different to the regular version of democracy

Glad to know that Chalerm and his murderous sons have clean hands!

Poeples Democratic Republic of China is democratic ,oh ,yes but a homegrown version,so was the DDR,(Deutsche DemoKratische Republik) . They virtuelly took over/continued the system of Hitler,Stasi,HJ,Volksbund,etc.etc.in the name of Democracy,,,,,,,.

Hitlers Germany was a National Socialist Republic.

Now, what kind of Democracy would that scumbag family Chalerm have in mind.

There is a saying,the apple is not falling far from the tree (or like that).I would say like son-like father.

That slain policeman on duty in that discotheque in Bangkok committed suicide in front of 200 patrons.The guy did the dissapearing act in Malaysia for 3 months, in order not to be traced with cardite from the gunshot.

Nice politician has Thailand eh?

[gemini81]

Now the reds have blockaded Khon Kaen airport too. Looking for a multicoloured leader.

It seems you are only allowed to protest if you are a red supporter.

RED DEMOCRACY AT WORK.

So now that want to alienate the people of the single region that offers them even 50% support. I don't think Abhisit needs to do anything to defeat this brain trust. Just give'em a little more rope...

i think khon kaen offers them a lot more then 50%!! its a red shirt heart land

That still doesn't give them the right to stop people gathering.

This isn't a gathering. A gathering is peaceful. A protest (you know, you come for one day, hold up signs...ACTUALLY go home after you made your point.) Thanks to this bunch, people won't have any rights anymore.

[brahmburgers]

100% agree with you, and it upsets me when I see so many people trying to distroy this very decent man. What wrong with these reds cant they see Abhisit is a very good PM. "What a shame for Thailand"

Why doesn't anyone find the systematic suppression of free speech and thought to be contrary to the concept of democracy and a very scary thing to boot? Can't anyone actually form a counter argument to explain why that is ok?

They can't see that he is "a very good PM" because he isn't! He is egomaniacal and without any ordinary moral framework, and perfectly willing to destroy Thailand if it saves face for himself. How is it that Thailand under this "very good PM" is in worse shambles than it has been for decades and on the verge of civil war?

Gatoresoft, you keep jamming on the same tired tune like a broken record. Ok, we get it, you don't like Abhisit and you're eager to say the worst things you can - to sully his name. You're very much a lone voice barking in the wind. The big irony is, the things you try to tar Abhisit with, are the things that apply to Thaksin, the Red's hero and savior. Your accusations against Abhisit are so outlandish, as to not merit a response.

Methinks you are possibly a formerly banned T.Visa member who got another email address and got a new account here. Whatever. Just take a moment to think about what Abhisit has done in recent weeks. Among other things, he's been amazingly restrained. Any other leader, Thai or foreign, (with similar challenges) would have unleashed a much firmer response and many Reds would likely be injured and killed by now. It's now looking like A's amazing self-restraint is getting the desired results: namely, it's enabling the Reds to show their true colors as violent rowdies who are itching for a big messy brawl. Abhisit didn't give that to them, so that's why Red remnants are still barricaded in, and making messes in downtown Bkk.

Edited April 30, 2010 by brahmburgers

[h90]

Yeah - I would like to hear Levelhead, Mazeltov, or any of the other "Pro-reds" explain why it is ok for these red gangs to go out "looking" for people, with an obviously violent or ill-intentioned agenda? Is that what you are so strongly advocating? Red Justice? This is the main reason the Reds will lose. They will keep going and going until they eventually hang themselves.

That were fake reds....in fact yellow/army facist abhisit followers who wanted to discredit the peaceful reds....will be their answer.

Since the beginning, everything that brought bad press was later "fake reds".....

[whybother]

This isn't a gathering. A gathering is peaceful. A protest (you know, you come for one day, hold up signs...ACTUALLY go home after you made your point.) Thanks to this bunch, people won't have any rights anymore.

I was talking about the reds stopping someone gathering in Khon Kaen.

RED DEMOCRACY AT WORK.

[Old Man River]

Can we start a new topic: Red shirt leaders have lost control.

One of the leaders organises an invasion of a hospital, and all the other leaders can do is say "Sorry, It wasn't us".

Yes, red shirt terrorists have also lost control. It's anarchy.

It is a failed state. They all can talk about rule of law, but there is nobody who will enforce it. The military are happy to let the people remain at Redtown, but not outside of it. The police don't seem to care at all what the Reds do or where they go. They stand next to Reds with outstanding arrest warrants and do nothing. It seems the only one's who really care at all about rule of law are the government and they can do nothing.

Abhisit might as well dissolve parliament. He has no control so this government right now is a government in name only.

[brahmburgers]

Now the reds have blockaded Khon Kaen airport too. Looking for a multicoloured leader. It seems you are only allowed to protest if you are a red supporter. RED DEMOCRACY AT WORK.

Exactly. Plus, even before the messy rallies, Abhisit and his administration were threatened with violence whenever they ventured to visit some regions of Thailand.

Reds are to democracy what fire is to slush.

Now the reds have blockaded Khon Kaen airport too. Looking for a multicoloured leader.

It seems you are only allowed to protest if you are a red supporter.

RED DEMOCRACY AT WORK.

So now that want to alienate the people of the single region that offers them even 50% support. I don't think Abhisit needs to do anything to defeat this brain trust. Just give'em a little more rope...

i think khon kaen offers them a lot more then 50%!! its a red shirt heart land

They call Chiang Rai, where I reside, 'Red Shirt territory' also, yet there are scant few Reds to be seen. Even at their public rallies downtown, they're lucky if they get five people to fill the 200 plastic chairs they set out on the street in front of Saen Phu Hotel.

Even in Kon Kaen or any other so-called Red Shirt bastion, I'd guess support for the Reds has gone waaaaay down. Issanites aren't stupid. All the mess and violence of the Reds in Bangkok must be turning a lot of former Reds away from the hot-headed alarmist rhetoric they're hearing on TV. Here's what I predict: The next general election, whether it's sooner or later, will show a big defeat for the Reds and Puea Thai. Very soon after, the Reds will cry foul, and be doing big messy violent rallies all over again. Mark my words.

[MAJIC]

It would seem the PM is just timidly doing nothing, but I think there are things going on that are not going to be mentioned in print, things involving fortune tellers, mysticism and the like.

Taksin was known to have a bunch of fortune tellers, and remember the reds' cursing ceremonies? Does the PM have his own soothsayers telling him Taksin will soon be departing, or H1N1 will overtake the rabble?

On the other hand maybe the PM has been simply waiting for the rains, thinking a good torrent will clear the streets.

I still have the impression Abhisit is waiting for a military coup to rescue him from this. He sure as hel_l has dropped enough hints! Maybe this political solution he claims to be working on has something to do with Taksin's flunkies, trying to get the man in private jet to tell his goons to go home. I don't doubt they can find a few rats in the red ranks, but I think they know they won't be around long enough to spend the betrayal money.

All just my opinion.

Do you really think this highly educated and intelligent man believes in fortune telling and mysticism?