Bangkok: Red-Shirts Storm Chulalongkorn Hospital

[pontius]

(Don't bother responding to WhinyTheKwaai. Rubbish argument.)

The Red evolution:

1. "It was the government"

2. "It wasn't us"

3. "They were fake reds"

4. "Ok, they were reds, but they acted on their own"

5. "Ok, errrr, sorry"

So? What's the next level?

[jonnyscot]

We see red dressed monks down here quite often, and this is yellow country. I wouldn't read too much into it.

yes, agreed, my other half explained to me a few weeks ago about that, I think her explanation was that the slightly different colour indicated whether they walked through the country visiting different areas or whether they were based in a temple, appologies if incorrect

[earthpig]

You are a laughing stock.

and why would you expect people who would overthrow a democratically elected government to NOT use a hospital to infiltrate the red enclave?

use your insight, Insight.

[jackr]

Time Thai police were disbanded. They are an F****** embarassment.

Police? They shouldn't even be labelled as such. Lollipop men or paid pilferers would be a better one.

You guys are almost funny if the matter at hand wasn't so sad.. There are documented cases of the government (or other parties) using snipers against unarmed protesters. Now there's a building overlooking the main sites, a perfect sniper's position or from where to lob a few more grenades. It seems reasonable to want to rule that out and prevent more needless bloodshed. The Reds clearly don't trust the government, not even to not use a hospital to kill their own citizens from. That's SAD!

I don't find that sad. What I do find sad is your trollish post.

[elcent]

I only hope the good cops, those with common sense and integrity will go after the bad cops. It's a disgrace for the ones who are doing their duties to be undermined by a few supervisors. Statistic says that 2% of police force are involved in mafia activities, - bad apples that spoil the rest.

Or will we see military police take over the police forces completely and refurbish the whole police force? Unbearable as it is now, the chances are getting high for this move.

[dhrobertson]

No matter what else one may think of them, ff the reds are going to defend ratchaprasong against an army assualt one point of tactics cannot be disputed: they have to defend the flanks, and not only the main approaches. All their barricades will be useless if the army infilitrates their territory thru the many buildings that border their enclave. And too the Red high command has to be concerned about snipers and observation posts hiding in these contiguous areas.

That I suppose is why there have been many reports of Reds concerned with this infiltration, both thru Chulalongkorn and also thru Central World. And that is why if you visit the enclave, you will see that the black guards constantly have the campus and other contiguous areas under surveilance thru binoculars.

And Chulalongkorn U. itself is a well known hotbed of antiRed, pro regime sentiment. It would seem obvious that the Red tactitians would view the Chulalongkorn campus as a dagger pointed at the heart of their enclave.

Its a terrible thing to have hospital patients and operating theaters disturbed. It is also a direct and inevitable result of the 2006 coup that disenfranchised half the population of Thailand. As what was a protest has since Songkran become a much wider revolt against the government, incidents such as this are likely to continue and worsen.

Oh, so that's OK then. I now understand storming a hospital is due to a coup which occurred 4 years ago. Silly me.

The red "high" (more like low) command should forget about snipers. Tanks will do the job much more effectively.

The red shirts have lost all credibility and should go home now while they still can.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Wow this topic has been entertaining!! Keep it up guys..

You guys are almost funny if the matter at hand wasn't so sad.. There are documented cases of the government (or other parties) using snipers against unarmed protesters. Now there's a building overlooking the main sites, a perfect sniper's position or from where to lob a few more grenades. It seems reasonable to want to rule that out and prevent more needless bloodshed. The Reds clearly don't trust this government, not even not to use a hospital to kill their own citizens from. That's SAD!

Go home red apologist. We do not want your opinions.

Time for cannon loaded with grapeshot

I like grapes. Expensive, but nice. As for going home, I'm going home tomorrow night, landing at Suvarnabhumi on Sunday. I really look forward to it, and see all my friends again, yellow, red and in between. There's actually more common ground than you'd think. If this situation wasn't managed with such insanity, stubborn arrogance and just plain incompetence (on both sides) then we'd be exploring the common ground by now, and actual ways forward.

looks like your definitely in the minority today whinnie

six others got there before me

Try refreshing the News Clippings forum every 5-10 seconds to see if I post?

Late night was it?

Long day. By tomorrow I will have been out of Thailand for a whole week. Sucks big twinkies.

Edited April 30, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[lazurus]

After storming a hospital they don't need red shirts, just look for red faces.

I think Payap needs a Big Mac break too.

Edited April 30, 2010 by lazurus

[dobadoy]

Weng admitted that the storming of the state hospital by a group red-shirts and guards, led by another UDD core leader Payap Panket yesterday was inappropriate.

Telling that the red-apologists on this forum have not got the critical brain to decide themselves what is appropriate or not, and have to wait for their leaders to tell them.

Edited April 30, 2010 by dobadoy

[SICA]

Look, I'm not one to support the Thai police, but what were they going to do in this situation? They were outnumbered by a huge amount. They tried to defuse the situation and worked out a reasonable agreement with the reds (just 5 people going inside).

Of course the reds didn't honor their agreement and stormed in when the hospital opened the doors to let the 5 in. But again, what could a handful of police have done?

Had they tried to arrest Payap Panket, they would have likely kicked off a riot which would have spilled over into the hospital.

I think in this situation, they did the best they could have done under the circumstances.

Unfortunately i have to agree, By arresting those who have arrest warrants issued they would have surely started a riot further endangering the safetly of the patients.

It seems more and more as though many parts of Bangkok (and some areas of Thailand) are lawless. All you need to do is stuff a red bandana in your pocket and you can get with almost anything.

The Red Shirts involved with this abhorant act are scratching the bottom of the barrel. The Red's leaders saying they didn't order this act is totally irrelevant. They did what they did in the name of the Red Shirts so an apology is just embarrassing.

What little sympathy i had for them has now been washed away, as i hope it has for anybody else who once felt sorry them.

[Publicus]

Wow this topic has been entertaining!! Keep it up guys..

Note that other newspapers have a less rabid account of events than the Nation, but it's entertaining to see so many people are getting worked into a frenzy..

You guys are almost funny if the matter at hand wasn't so sad.. There are documented cases of the government (or other parties) using snipers against unarmed protesters. Now there's a building overlooking the main sites, a perfect sniper's position or from where to lob a few more grenades. It seems reasonable to want to rule that out and prevent more needless bloodshed. The Reds clearly don't trust the government, not even to not use a hospital to kill their own citizens from. That's SAD!

Enough already, there should be a negotiated settlement. Clearly the amount of suspicion and disrespect on both sides is at maximum levels. That's just not good for anybody and especially not Thailand as a whole.

Over to you..

I'm afraid the government's strategy is to give the Reds enuff rope to hang themselves. The government doesn't want Thais killing Thais, as in a violent and bloody military crackdown, but a spiral of Red violence is instead is what is happening.

Each day, each hour the Reds get worse and then again unimaginably worse as in this instance. How much outrage must the Reds need to cause, need to create with each new day before this stops? The government is not going to shoot Red Thais into defeat, nor are the Reds going to stop daily escalations of their insurectionist violence. There's got to be a tipping point at some time and place. The question is what that tipping point will have to be for the society and for the government.

This Red cakewalk precedent having been established, which hospital and which patient is next? Waiting out the Reds isn't a viable strategy as the Reds endlessly use their destructive creativity in inceasingly menacing and outrageous ways. How much longer and what will it take for the population to get off sitting on its hands to allow the government to do its work to stop these ever increasing and inpudently brazen outrages?

Edited April 30, 2010 by Publicus

[dobadoy]

After storming a hospital they don't need red shirts, just look for red faces.

Easiest way to solve the identity problem is put YELLOW dye in the water for the water cannons. Not only will you know who was rioting when they're rounded up, but they'll literally have 'changed shirts'.

[whybother]

You are a laughing stock.

and why would you expect people who would overthrow a democratically elected government to NOT use a hospital to infiltrate the red enclave?

use your insight, Insight.

Which "democratically elected government" was over thrown? Go and do some research.

[barky]

Well, I don't care what anybody says. This act has now crossed every line possibe. Anybody who still supports these terrorists are equally brain dead and culpable.

The PM now has my permission to put a bull dozer through the lot of the squalid, seething mass and gun down any that physically resist.

Clear the streets of this filth and give the city back to law-abiding humans...not leave in the hands of these dogs.

[elcent]

and why would you expect people who would overthrow a democratically elected government to NOT use a hospital to infiltrate the red enclave?

use your insight, Insight.

because there were rumors that grenades have been fired from the roof of the hospital doesn't mean a dime. It's another red herring laid out by the red terrorists, unless they did it themselves.

The whole thing was made to intimidate the hospital since doctors from there organized demos to stop the reds creating even more terror. But believe me, even doctors are entitled to have opinions, most of the time they make intelligent decisions.

[Insight]

You are a laughing stock.

and why would you expect people who would overthrow a democratically elected government to NOT use a hospital to infiltrate the red enclave?

use your insight, Insight.

Why am I biting? Here goes anyhow...

Attacking from a hospital would place the hospital right in the firing line, along with all its patients. Even the most tyrannical of govts could apply a modicum of common sense and realise that, at the very least, the risk of negative PR that would follow renders the risk not worth it.

Such levels of common sense are clearly not among the reds.

[lazygourmet]

Only bullets can stop them!

[dobadoy]

Wow this topic has been entertaining!! Keep it up guys..

Note that other newspapers have a less rabid account of events than the Nation, but it's entertaining to see so many people are getting worked into a frenzy..

You guys are almost funny if the matter at hand wasn't so sad.. There are documented cases of the government (or other parties) using snipers against unarmed protesters. Now there's a building overlooking the main sites, a perfect sniper's position or from where to lob a few more grenades. It seems reasonable to want to rule that out and prevent more needless bloodshed. The Reds clearly don't trust the government, not even to not use a hospital to kill their own citizens from. That's SAD!

Enough already, there should be a negotiated settlement. Clearly the amount of suspicion and disrespect on both sides is at maximum levels. That's just not good for anybody and especially not Thailand as a whole.

Over to you..

I'm afraid the government's strategy is to give the Reds enuff rope to hang themselves. The government doesn't want Thais killing Thais, as in a violent and bloody military crackdown, but a spiral of Red violence is instead is what is happening.

Each day, each hour the Reds get worse and then again unimaginably worse as in this instance. How much outrage must the Reds need to cause, need to create with each new day before this stops? The government is not going to shoot Red Thais into defeat, nor are the Reds going to stop daily escalations of their insurectionist violence. There's got to be a tipping point at some time and place. The question is what that tipping point will have to be for the society and for the government.

This Red cakewalk precedent having been established, which hospital and which patient is next? Waiting out the Reds isn't a viable strategy as the Reds endlessly use their destructive creativity in inceasingly menacing and outrageous ways. How much longer and what will it take for the population to get off sitting on its hands to allow the government to do its work to stop these ever increasing and and inpudently brazen outrages?

I was feeling like this a few days ago, too Publicus. I'm calmer now. I have a feeling (confirmed by Weng's "apology" this morning), that we have seen the last of the violence. The Vibhavadi Road incident was a turning point. The Reds are losing the propaganda war. Thaksin's confiscarted money has today be transferred out of his and his kids frozen accounts and to the Ministry of Finance.

The battle is over. It's now all about face-saving. How do both sides end this without looking like they lost? My bet is a third party (I don't mean the King) will have to come in and negotiate. I doubt it will be EU/UN because that would be unacceptable to the gov't. Must be some respected and neutral person within Thai life, if there is any left?

[Crushdepth]

Hassling a hospital is unacceptable, these people can go to hel_l.

[ThaksinKharma]

Thailand certainly didn't respond to this in the same manner they responded to the last time one of its hospitals was over-run by terrorists.

In January 2000 episode at the Ratchaburi hospital, ALL the terrorists were slain by Thai security forces.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Only bullets can stop them!

So.. Wait. Some people call me a Red apologist or even a troll.

But it's you and the Grapeshot guy advocating mass slaughter of civilian protesters. Maybe time to re-calibrate sensors of what's going on in the world, and what would be appropriate, realistic and moral responses to the challenges posed. You guys DO allow yourselves to be worked up in a frenzy. I try to understand first, and judge later. Many of the protesters are very aware that their faces may get blown off at any time.

Edited April 30, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[dhrobertson]

Wow this topic has been entertaining!! Keep it up guys..

Note that other newspapers have a less rabid account of events than the Nation, but it's entertaining to see so many people are getting worked into a frenzy..

You guys are almost funny if the matter at hand wasn't so sad.. There are documented cases of the government (or other parties) using snipers against unarmed protesters. Now there's a building overlooking the main sites, a perfect sniper's position or from where to lob a few more grenades. It seems reasonable to want to rule that out and prevent more needless bloodshed. The Reds clearly don't trust the government, not even to not use a hospital to kill their own citizens from. That's SAD!

Enough already, there should be a negotiated settlement. Clearly the amount of suspicion and disrespect on both sides is at maximum levels. That's just not good for anybody and especially not Thailand as a whole.

Over to you..

I'm afraid the government's strategy is to give the Reds enuff rope to hang themselves. The government doesn't want Thais killing Thais, as in a violent and bloody military crackdown, but a spiral of Red violence is instead is what is happening.

Each day, each hour the Reds get worse and then again unimaginably worse as in this instance. How much outrage must the Reds need to cause, need to create with each new day before this stops? The government is not going to shoot Red Thais into defeat, nor are the Reds going to stop daily escalations of their insurectionist violence. There's got to be a tipping point at some time and place. The question is what that tipping point will have to be for the society and for the government.

This Red cakewalk precedent having been established, which hospital and which patient is next? Waiting out the Reds isn't a viable strategy as the Reds endlessly use their destructive creativity in inceasingly menacing and outrageous ways. How much longer and what will it take for the population to get off sitting on its hands to allow the government to do its work to stop these ever increasing and and inpudently brazen outrages?

I was feeling like this a few days ago, too Publicus. I'm calmer now. I have a feeling (confirmed by Weng's "apology" this morning), that we have seen the last of the violence. The Vibhavadi Road incident was a turning point. The Reds are losing the propaganda war. Thaksin's confiscarted money has today be transferred out of his and his kids frozen accounts and to the Ministry of Finance.

The battle is over. It's now all about face-saving. How do both sides end this without looking like they lost? My bet is a third party (I don't mean the King) will have to come in and negotiate. I doubt it will be EU/UN because that would be unacceptable to the gov't. Must be some respected and neutral person within Thai life, if there is any left?

Red apologists on here have certainly been eviscerated

The residue look increasingly foolish and will hopefully disappear completely.

Then maybe we can discuss ways forward.

[Gonzo the Face]

Wow this topic has been entertaining!! Keep it up guys..

Note that other newspapers have a less rabid account of events than the Nation, but it's entertaining to see so many people are getting worked into a frenzy..

You guys are almost funny if the matter at hand wasn't so sad.. There are documented cases of the government (or other parties) using snipers against unarmed protesters. Now there's a building overlooking the main sites, a perfect sniper's position or from where to lob a few more grenades. It seems reasonable to want to rule that out and prevent more needless bloodshed. The Reds clearly don't trust the government, not even to not use a hospital to kill their own citizens from. That's SAD!

Enough already, there should be a negotiated settlement. Clearly the amount of suspicion and disrespect on both sides is at maximum levels. That's just not good for anybody and especially not Thailand as a whole.

Over to you..

I can think of no other words that would be more appropriate to dedicate to you Winnie....so to you and all your same same friends , I offer the following.

[earthpig]

You are a laughing stock.

and why would you expect people who would overthrow a democratically elected government to NOT use a hospital to infiltrate the red enclave?

use your insight, Insight.

Which "democratically elected government" was over thrown? Go and do some research.

more "insight" from the clueless

[dobadoy]

From the red stage: "Payap acted on his own."

Ahh, the ultimate curse from Red High Command!

Will he now be transferred to an inactive post? No hero's treatment at Macdonald's for him.

(wonder how long before the Heros of Red Hypocrisy start fighting among themselves? Too much sunshine and limelight, and as the 15-minute fame cameras start turning their attention elsewhere, what will become of these poor wallflowers?)

Edited April 30, 2010 by dobadoy

[ThaksinKharma]

Had they tried to arrest Payap Panket, they would have likely kicked off a riot which would have spilled over into the hospital.

Unfortunately i have to agree, By arresting those who have arrest warrants issued they would have surely started a riot further endangering the safetly of the patients.

Unfortunately, he was already arrested from the red turmoil that was Black Songkran 2009.

He committed this latest terrorist act while already out on bail.

Six red shirts surrender to face charges

By The Nation

Published on June 19, 2009

Six leaders of the red-shirt protesters were released on bail yesterday after turning themselves in to face charges of inciting unrest in Bangkok during Songkran.

Wiputhalaeng Patanapum-thai, Suporn Attawong, Payap Panket, Pol Lt-Colonel Waipot Apornrat, Somchai Paiboon, and Pichet Sukchindathong surrendered to the Metropolitan Police Bureau Region One commander Pol Maj-General Wichai Sangprapai.

They denied all charges and were released on a bail of Bt500,000 each, posted by eight Pheu Thai Party MPs.

[Herm]

I'm not new to Thailand but been here over 20 years and in all this time I have never experienced a state of Anarchy until now.

Even considering the usual Thai none logical way of thinking, this goes way beyond anything ever experienced here. The red shirts going to the UN and than to the EU complaining that the government is using "weapons of war" against them while they themselves are firing M79 grenades, RPG's and life ammunition at targets, seems totally .... well the only word that comes to mind is mad.

The well .. "formerly" reds claim to fight for democracy but considering all their actions, including storming the Hospital yesterday seem to be the act of an illegal mob with the aim to overthrow a government rather than a peaceful demonstration.

One thing seems obvious, if the government does not act swiftly now, the anarchy will spread and the country will turn into a war zone like some African countries have in the past with warlords ruling their regions. The government can't be afraid of using force to stop all this anarchy since the red's are clearly led by a terrorist cell. I'm sure that no one in the international scene will blame them for concise actions against an unusual large number of violent law breakers holding the capital hostage.

It is the right of the law respecting citizen to be protected by the government forces from such anarchy. This is what the whole system of governments is about, otherwise we should all be allowed to carry arms and we call Thailand "the wild East".

[dhrobertson]

Only bullets can stop them!

So.. Wait. Some people call me a Red apologist or even a troll.

But it's you and the Grapeshot guy advocating mass slaughter of civilian protesters. Maybe time to re-calibrate sensors of what's going on in the world, and what would be appropriate, realistic and moral responses to the challenges posed. You guys DO allow yourselves to be worked up in a frenzy. I try to understand first, and judge later. Many of the protesters are very aware that their faces may get blown off at any time.

You are a red apologist.

And I stand by what I said. By all means give time for people to get out, but then crush the remainder.

Until these oafs move out, there can never be elections.

We have all had enough.

[hammered]

Have the reds handed Payap over yet? That is the test of whether they really didnt mean it or not. Nobody believing in people's rights and emocracy would condone this action under any circumstance and would try to remedy it immediatley. The reds are now beyond anything the yellows did.

[pkspeaker]

This is foolishness, you think the protesters have any chance in hel_l of 'defening' their protest site against army and police armed with automatic weapons, armored vehicles, etc. with a bunch of bamboosticks..please

there seems to be this misconception that the Army and police are not doing anything because some of their officers 'sympathize' with the reds-it's not happeneing.. with the exception of Iran in 1979, when has an Army ever not followed orders in the last 60 years, never.. if the order comes to disperse it will be done and quickly..there is not going to be a civil war, most that the reds can do is run off into the jungle and wage a guerilla war just like they were doing in the 60,70,80s ..

The reason the Army/government is waiting is:

1) violently cracking down on the reds will give them sympathy and more votes, the reason the redshirt leaders took over center bangkok is to provoke the government into doing this; that failed and now they are getting desperate and doing things like ransacking hospitals.

2) not cracking down makes everyone get tired of, or hate the redshirts, which start to look like a bunch of thugs, not victims or democracy activists.

3) The economic impact of the occupation is really not as bad as it looks, ritzy hotels and places like Gaysorn are possessions of just a few rich people, not the rich class altogether..most Thai peoples economic life hardly revolve around Siam Paragon, it's just 3 malls and a few hotels, bkk has more ritzy malls and hotels just down the bts or a short drive away. Tourists soon realize that the situation here really isn't that dangerous and there are many better places in Thailand for them to go.

4) cracking down too quickly increases the chance of civilian deaths because the reshirts hide armed men with grenades and guns amounst the crowd and use human sheilds, they then scream "murderers" in other words they want the police to massacre the unarmed civilians because it helps them politically.

5) The longer the police army wait, the more protesters go home, there's not that many reds down there now, i was there 2 days ago and moral seems to be low, people getting bored, again thats why they start getting desperate and doing stupid things like raiding hospitals or trying to break out of their protest zone-which failed.

6) in another month of standoff the red shirts will be more willing to negotiate a more reasonable time frame for new elections.

No matter what else one may think of them, ff the reds are going to defend ratchaprasong against an army assualt one point of tactics cannot be disputed: they have to defend the flanks, and not only the main approaches. All their barricades will be useless if the army infilitrates their territory thru the many buildings that border their enclave. And too the Red high command has to be concerned about snipers and observation posts hiding in these contiguous areas.

That I suppose is why there have been many reports of Reds concerned with this infiltration, both thru Chulalongkorn and also thru Central World. And that is why if you visit the enclave, you will see that the black guards constantly have the campus and other contiguous areas under surveilance thru binoculars.

And Chulalongkorn U. itself is a well known hotbed of antiRed, pro regime sentiment. It would seem obvious that the Red tactitians would view the Chulalongkorn campus as a dagger pointed at the heart of their enclave.

Its a terrible thing to have hospital patients and operating theaters disturbed. It is also a direct and inevitable result of the 2006 coup that disenfranchised half the population of Thailand. As what was a protest has since Songkran become a much wider revolt against the government, incidents such as this are likely to continue and worsen.