Chulalongkorn Hospital Evacuated After Stormed By Red-Shirts

[Roadman]

Let's keep things in perspective pls. Why is any of this worse than what we've seen very recently, with people getting shot and grenades going off and people dying? I sense a lot of fabricated indignation; the Reds are jittery, they KNOW they can get their faces blown off at any time by government (or rogue army) snipers.. It's chaotic, someone thinks they see military in the building directly overlooking their site.. It happens to be a hospital, but better safe than sorry.

Good of Dr. Weng to apologize though, respect.

Absolute rubbish..the reds are criminal thugs..they are getting padi by Thaksin (a criminal himself), they shoot troops, bomb banks, army, railway stations..they stop cars and beat up cars and their owners who are too slow to obey their illegal roadblocks..they raid poor peoples hospitals..they take bribes to vote... and then the cowards cry when someone fights back.. meanwhile Thailand suffers and the poor suffer the most. Get in there and get them out..shoot them i necessary..gangsters deserve no mercy

The front of your post I agree with but started to disagree towards the end. Yes there are some that could be shot, but there is also the black scum who will be shooting back, and there are also a lot who are armed with slingshots and sharpened sticks earning their ฿500 per day, cause its better than a failed rice crop on your 1 rai family plot. There are also hospitals and those things called civilians wandering around. One could get them all but the body count could be high. Thai's won't tolerate that. It seems they will tolerate the economical glilch on what would have been a brillant year for them if this garbage wasn't going down. It it sucks out this mob fester and allows a way forward then the pain of the economy will be a good trade for minimum body count. Good thing is the elected PM is budgeting for the cost.

[Humungus]

I saw the CNN video, so nice to see them clearing the barricades for the cameras. Too bad they didn't stick around to watch the United Front for Dictatorship against Democracy put them back up.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Humungus

[shawndoc]

To be fair, the video was probably shot and edited before that happened.

They should however have mentioned the two innocent workers who were "captured" by the red shirts and taken back to their compound to be interrogated.

[BKK-Bangkapi]

Remember the ACORN scandal in the US? Undercover journalists were able to make 4 videos that blew up the whole organization... I guess the Reds don't deserve better treatment, it is high time to expose them once and for all.

You might want to look more into it. Turns out the videos were unusable as evidence due to heavy editing. Once the DA's got ahold of the unedited tapes, the cases fell apart.

And the unedited tapes have never been released to the public.

From the LA Times, quoting the California Attorney General after viewing the unedited tapes: "The evidence illustrates that things are not always as partisan zealots portray them through highly selective editing of reality," Brown said. "Sometimes a fuller truth is found on the cutting room floor."

I just checked and you are right, my mistake that I did not follow the ACORN case after the initial exposure. However, the point I wanted to make is that some more investigative journalism would be nice to see in Thailand, not only "breaking news" with no in-depth digging of the subject. If we look back in history, stories resulting of long investigations proved more effective in bringing a change. I might be wrong, maybe nowadays it is tweet-style news that make deeper prints in the public opinion... Still, lets not forget that a good majority of thais don't read much Pantip forum and tweets...

[shawndoc]

I don't think a video showing they were paid to protest would stir up that much trouble. I think most Thai's already assume that, and having confirmation wouldn't change anything. The reds would just say "They're paid for their time, but the pay is so low they wouldn't turn out if they didn't support the cause."

And since I don't speak Thai, I don't really watch any of the Thai channels. Do they not have any investigative reports?

I've always assumed there's a lot more detail and information out there that never makes it to TV since this is an expat forum and few actually speak the language with great fluency.

[BKK-Bangkapi]

I don't think a video showing they were paid to protest would stir up that much trouble. I think most Thai's already assume that, and having confirmation wouldn't change anything. The reds would just say "They're paid for their time, but the pay is so low they wouldn't turn out if they didn't support the cause."

And since I don't speak Thai, I don't really watch any of the Thai channels. Do they not have any investigative reports?

I've always assumed there's a lot more detail and information out there that never makes it to TV since this is an expat forum and few actually speak the language with great fluency.

I understand some Thai and my wife is a native speaker. On TV there are definitely far less investigative reports than in Europe (not much room left between ads, soaps and talk-shows). In 5 years I never saw any "government toppling" investigative report on TV (which is the main source of news for the masses) but maybe I did not watch enough. With regards to the paid mob, although some thais assume it, it is still contested in forums and not spoken of abroad. 500B per day is probably 5 times what they make up north, not to mention free food, free concert and other benefits. Furthermore, a good investigative report could also expose much more of the reds sinister activities, possibly to stir enough trouble to get rid of them.

[timekeeper]

i dreamt this last night so i had to write it down

i have the solution to this red problem

lets make millions of paper doves with messages of love inside and drop them onto the red encampment

i recall it was thaksins idea originally in 2005

didn't it work with those damned annoying southerners?

[difos57]

Seems quiet. Whatever happened to those red shirt terrorist supporters. Are they packing up their boiler room computers and shutting down the money laundering operations? Maybe regrouping, meeting to discuss how to get out of this one.

[brahmburgers]

Memo to PM Abhisit

First order of business:

Get a group of 60 of your best soldiers, arm them with real bullets, with helmets and bulletproof vests, supported by snipers on surrounding buildings, and

Go and arrest Red shirt leaders who have been on the Wanted list for weeks:

- Payap

- Seh Daeng

- Issan Rambo Kittaya, and all the rest.

Do it with martial conviction. Anyone gets in the way, bludgeon them down to the ground. Any leaders running away, shoot their legs out. Anyone who wields a weapon, shoot 'em (same instructions for snipers on surrounding buildings) A nifty way to separate peaceful Red protesters from hard core red/black combatants. It will be messy, but it's got to be done. Hint: don't just come in from one direction, do it as a pincer movement from all directions. Need to breach the barricades? Do it with tanks or fortified tractors supported by troops. Have back-up troops nearby, and be ready to use them.

Make detailed provision for dealing with all who are arrested. That includes added security, plastic handcuffs, and paddy wagons. Once arrested and detained, DON'T RELEASE THEM! Seh Saeng and his buddies were arrested in southern Thailand just before the rallies started, YET THEY WERE RELEASED RIGHT AWAY - WHATEVER COPS RELEASED THOSE KNOWN TERRORISTS SHOULD BE SLAPPED IN THE BRIG FOR TWO YEARS FOR BEING A PARTY TO TREASON.

All the cops at the hospital, when it was breached, should be thrown in the brig for 3 months with no pay.

The trickiest part is finding 60 troops (and officers) with backbones - to lead the assault.

Before the rallies, Thai cops were best known internationally for extorting money from innocent tourists, and letting convicted criminals out of jail (particularly if they were fellow cops). Thai cops also have a reputation for shaking down the most vulnerable, such as migrant workers, for all the money they can get. Now, with the rallies being broadcast worldwide, Thai cops are getting a reputation for wimping out on the job. Case in point: several times recently when a wanted man is within spitting distance, and the cops doing absolutely nothing to arrest him.

Another way which might work to arrest red leaders: It's a ploy used by US law enforcement. Lure the leaders to a meeting. when they're inside, arrest them. unfortunately, Thai security brass are bereft when it comes to creative law enforcement. Have they ever had a sting operation? Have they ever had undercover agents garner evidence that leads to convictions? If so, I've never heard of it. Perhaps it reflects the rote education system that all Thais are saddled with. A system which disdains creative thinking and innovative solutions to challenges. As for Thai security forces, perhaps we should expect a borderline functioning force when all promotions are based on payments (to higher ups) and 'who you know' rather than skills and intelligence.

Edited May 1, 2010 by brahmburgers

[rabo]

Go and arrest Red shirt leaders who have been on the Wanted list for weeks:

- Payap

- Seh Daeng

- Issan Rambo Kittaya, and all the rest.

Seh Daeng and Gen Khittaya are the same guy. Two for one.

[patjem]

The government have some explaining to do too. How is it they failed to protect a place of refuge. Guess the police officer in charge of this disaster has resigned already and if not will be hastily dispatched.

Have the democracy and human rights loviong reds handed Payap and all the perpetrators over to authorites yet?

So, the government should arrange security for ALL building in BKK just in case the reds decide to raid it? Can't see what the government have to explain any further than that we have terrorists to cope with.

[Humungus]

Seems quiet. Whatever happened to those red shirt terrorist supporters. Are they packing up their boiler room computers and shutting down the money laundering operations? Maybe regrouping, meeting to discuss how to get out of this one.

Well it's 4am in Montenegro, maybe they're all asleep still.

[Chinavet]

Memo to PM Abhisit

First order of business:

Get a group of 60 of your best soldiers, arm them with real bullets, with helmets and bulletproof vests, supported by snipers on surrounding buildings, and

Go and arrest Red shirt leaders who have been on the Wanted list for weeks:

- Payap

- Seh Daeng

- Issan Rambo Kittaya, and all the rest.

Do it with martial conviction. Anyone gets in the way, bludgeon them down to the ground. Any leaders running away, shoot their legs out. Anyone who wields a weapon, shoot 'em (same instructions for snipers on surrounding buildings) A nifty way to separate peaceful Red protesters from hard core red/black combatants. It will be messy, but it's got to be done. Hint: don't just come in from one direction, do it as a pincer movement from all directions. Need to breach the barricades? Do it with tanks or fortified tractors supported by troops. Have back-up troops nearby, and be ready to use them.

Make detailed provision for dealing with all who are arrested. That includes added security, plastic handcuffs, and paddy wagons. Once arrested and detained, DON'T RELEASE THEM! Seh Saeng and his buddies were arrested in southern Thailand just before the rallies started, YET THEY WERE RELEASED RIGHT AWAY - WHATEVER COPS RELEASED THOSE KNOWN TERRORISTS SHOULD BE SLAPPED IN THE BRIG FOR TWO YEARS FOR BEING A PARTY TO TREASON.

All the cops at the hospital, when it was breached, should be thrown in the brig for 3 months with no pay.

The trickiest part is finding 60 troops (and officers) with backbones - to lead the assault.

Before the rallies, Thai cops were best known internationally for extorting money from innocent tourists, and letting convicted criminals out of jail (particularly if they were fellow cops). Thai cops also have a reputation for shaking down the most vulnerable, such as migrant workers, for all the money they can get. Now, with the rallies being broadcast worldwide, Thai cops are getting a reputation for wimping out on the job. Case in point: several times recently when a wanted man is within spitting distance, and the cops doing absolutely nothing to arrest him.

Another way which might work to arrest red leaders: It's a ploy used by US law enforcement. Lure the leaders to a meeting. when they're inside, arrest them. unfortunately, Thai security brass are bereft when it comes to creative law enforcement. Have they ever had a sting operation? Have they ever had undercover agents garner evidence that leads to convictions? If so, I've never heard of it. Perhaps it reflects the rote education system that all Thais are saddled with. A system which disdains creative thinking and innovative solutions to challenges. As for Thai security forces, perhaps we should expect a borderline functioning force when all promotions are based on payments (to higher ups) and 'who you know' rather than skills and intelligence.

.....or, continue a sane policy that history will probably show as a major turning point in Thai political progress. Outlast their money, will, patience and support. I hope so, there are still too many elderly, women, children and babies in the site.

Two days ago I wandered through the Red area. I would estimate numbers to be down more than 90% from my previous visit 9 days earlier. People look tired, the smiles and sense of sanuk are largely gone. There seems to be a real sea change in support and it's hard to look good with a People's Movement when there are other large groups of people clearly opposed.

Thaksin has lowered his profile substantially and there are Red leaders that just seem to be missing. Maybe they have realized the big bonus won't eventuate.

Does anyone suspect maybe the money has stopped flowing? There are reports of protesters complaining of not being paid. The whole protest site is a hugely expensive logistics exercise plain for anyone to see. Who rents all the large generator units etc ....will they stay if the invoices don't get paid?

They might try some final desperate acts, but I think and hope the end of this chapter at least, is in sight.

[cdnvic]

Please, some of you, moderate your tone. Advocating violence of any kind will not be tolerated.

[toenail]

This hospital story has been over-played..... let's move on....

"over played??? It is shocking, that is why so many viewers what to give their opinion.

If you think it is "over played" then do not look at the comments --it is like surfing through ones TV channels, you don't have to look at every TV station showing on the air. Right?

[Guest]

Are there any UDD supporters out there prepared to say something about the Chula events? Is there something we've missed that justifies it all?

[Humungus]

This hospital story has been over-played..... let's move on....

"over played??? It is shocking, that is why so many viewers what to give their opinion.

If you think it is "over played" then do not look at the comments --it is like surfing through ones TV channels, you don't have to look at every TV station showing on the air. Right?

It is a significant event, maybe the beginning of the end for the reds. But perhaps it is time to open a new line of discussion for comments that fall outside the hospital topic.

The fact that this topic received 28,000 views and more than 1000 comments in little over 24 hours suggests that the outrage people have been feeling has been pushed over the edge by the hospital invasion.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Humungus

[Mosha]

Are flathead redunset etal really Thaksin posting under different aliases?

Edited May 1, 2010 by Mosha

[andrewbkk]

Two days ago I wandered through the Red area. I would estimate numbers to be down more than 90% from my previous visit 9 days earlier. People look tired, the smiles and sense of sanuk are largely gone.

How many of them are there. I mean, as an estimate. A thousand? Five thousand? Ten thousand?

It's hard to tell with all that netting.

[dhrobertson]

The reds have certainly been put down on this topic.

Let's hope it spells the end on the streets.

If not, it occurs that that nice Mr Abhisit must know people at Sandhurst.

Maybe there's a regiment coming to the end of their tour in Afganistan who would appreciate some R&R in Bangkoki.

Put them up in five star hotels, all expenses paid. Oh, and please can they help out with a small problem while they're here!

[Humungus]

Are flathead resunset etal really Thaksin posting under different aliases?

I think he's too busy circling the globe to spend time posting on this forum. He has islands to buy, gold mines to run, chemo treatments, investments in Saudi cities, vacations on the beach. If I had that kind of schedule I wouldn't be here either. If I had his money I sure wouldn't mess around in Thai politics I'd be living it up somewhere nice.

[Chinavet]

Two days ago I wandered through the Red area. I would estimate numbers to be down more than 90% from my previous visit 9 days earlier. People look tired, the smiles and sense of sanuk are largely gone.

How many of them are there. I mean, as an estimate. A thousand? Five thousand? Ten thousand?

It's hard to tell with all that netting.

Andrew, I don't have the skills to even hazard a guess. The site covers a large area. My first visit I would describe it as crowded, now it is not. Maybe someone else has an eye for an estimate.

[Humungus]

Two days ago I wandered through the Red area. I would estimate numbers to be down more than 90% from my previous visit 9 days earlier. People look tired, the smiles and sense of sanuk are largely gone.

How many of them are there. I mean, as an estimate. A thousand? Five thousand? Ten thousand?

It's hard to tell with all that netting.

How long could you go on M150, Thai whisky, sleeping on the street, listening to a Thai sound system 24 hours a day, under the constant fear of attack before your smile would fade?

[way2muchcoffee]

Let us also not forget that school is set to open soon. Will the children be able to safely get to school? Will the traffic be so bad in downtown BKK that kids have to get up at 3:00 am in order to get to school? Will parents have to leave their houses by 4:00 so they can get their kids to school by 7:30 and then make it over to their places of employment?

These demonstrations are hurting many people. They are not democratic, they are criminal. There is no justification for what the red shirt demonstrators are doing, no matter their grievances. This is not the way to solve the problems in Thai society.

I live in an area near the demonstrations and I work at a school near the demonstrations. My family is living in fear. The high anxiety is taking its toll on our lives. We, and many others, are victims of this criminal mob. There is no resolution to this situation on the horizon. We long for a return to normalcy so that we can simply live our lives in relative peace.

Up until today I have only advocated political solutions. Honest negotiation and compromise has been my position. But this does not seem to be happening. The divisions are apparently too great. Rational minds have not prevailed. We are tired, weary of the anarchy, stressed and oppressed. Sadly, and with a heavy heart, I am forced to change my position.

The government and security forces need to clear these hooligans, thugs, freedom fighters, insurrectionists, terrorists, and 'democracy' advocates from the streets. They have no right to be there and they must be removed, now, today, in broad daylight and with the media present. The government has the moral and legal authority to act. And this is what they must do.

Edited May 1, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Chinavet]

Two days ago I wandered through the Red area. I would estimate numbers to be down more than 90% from my previous visit 9 days earlier. People look tired, the smiles and sense of sanuk are largely gone.

How many of them are there. I mean, as an estimate. A thousand? Five thousand? Ten thousand?

It's hard to tell with all that netting.

How long could you go on M150, Thai whisky, sleeping on the street, listening to a Thai sound system 24 hours a day, under the constant fear of attack before your smile would fade?

Me? Less than an hour.

[ETatBKK]

after 24+ hours, angriness, emotion and sympathy are still there ! saw the event and the pictures on the media, my goodness ! wonder what reds are thinking ( or not thinking at all ) about the rudest raid of Chulalongkorn Hospital !

certainly, reds insulted our intelligence and challenged our empathy on this subject.

first, they acted without brain and raid the hospital,

then they denied any responsibility and faked an apology to the world,

( till now no one hand in Payap as a criminal )

later they defended their justifications of the wrong doing,

rudenessly they did it again to block the hospital

wonder these people called themselves protesters, wonder their motif of demanding democracy, wonder these cold-blooded no brain 'leaders' in power, my goodness !

[Old Man River]

Memo to PM Abhisit

First order of business:

Get a group of 60 of your best soldiers, arm them with real bullets, with helmets and bulletproof vests, supported by snipers on surrounding buildings, and

Go and arrest Red shirt leaders who have been on the Wanted list for weeks:

- Payap

- Seh Daeng

- Issan Rambo Kittaya, and all the rest.

Do it with martial conviction. Anyone gets in the way, bludgeon them down to the ground. Any leaders running away, shoot their legs out. Anyone who wields a weapon, shoot 'em (same instructions for snipers on surrounding buildings) A nifty way to separate peaceful Red protesters from hard core red/black combatants. It will be messy, but it's got to be done. Hint: don't just come in from one direction, do it as a pincer movement from all directions. Need to breach the barricades? Do it with tanks or fortified tractors supported by troops. Have back-up troops nearby, and be ready to use them.

Make detailed provision for dealing with all who are arrested. That includes added security, plastic handcuffs, and paddy wagons. Once arrested and detained, DON'T RELEASE THEM! Seh Saeng and his buddies were arrested in southern Thailand just before the rallies started, YET THEY WERE RELEASED RIGHT AWAY - WHATEVER COPS RELEASED THOSE KNOWN TERRORISTS SHOULD BE SLAPPED IN THE BRIG FOR TWO YEARS FOR BEING A PARTY TO TREASON.

All the cops at the hospital, when it was breached, should be thrown in the brig for 3 months with no pay.

The trickiest part is finding 60 troops (and officers) with backbones - to lead the assault.

Before the rallies, Thai cops were best known internationally for extorting money from innocent tourists, and letting convicted criminals out of jail (particularly if they were fellow cops). Thai cops also have a reputation for shaking down the most vulnerable, such as migrant workers, for all the money they can get. Now, with the rallies being broadcast worldwide, Thai cops are getting a reputation for wimping out on the job. Case in point: several times recently when a wanted man is within spitting distance, and the cops doing absolutely nothing to arrest him.

Another way which might work to arrest red leaders: It's a ploy used by US law enforcement. Lure the leaders to a meeting. when they're inside, arrest them. unfortunately, Thai security brass are bereft when it comes to creative law enforcement. Have they ever had a sting operation? Have they ever had undercover agents garner evidence that leads to convictions? If so, I've never heard of it. Perhaps it reflects the rote education system that all Thais are saddled with. A system which disdains creative thinking and innovative solutions to challenges. As for Thai security forces, perhaps we should expect a borderline functioning force when all promotions are based on payments (to higher ups) and 'who you know' rather than skills and intelligence.

There is one big problem with all this. The police are the one's who are legally responsible for arresting criminals and although they stand next to them, they don't arrest them. They even stood next to Payap while he was invading Chula hospital and nothing happend. In addition, at Chuala hospital they stood next to their top suspect in the Banharn house bombing and nothing happened.

Abhisit has no power to arrest people and neither does the military without first declaring martial law. Anupong has been very forthright in that he is not going to crack down and is not going to call for martial law. Remember, Chamlong said give him martial law and 2 hours and all this would end, but this is not going to happen. Martial law is up to Anupong and he won't do it.

Therefore, you have Abhisit who wants these criminals off the streets so they don't invade hospitals and bomb innocent people, but the police and the military for different reasons won't budge.

Hence, the bottom line is that Bangkok has become like the old wild west in the US. There is law, but no enforcement.

[dhrobertson]

MODERATOR,

Please look at this

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/eo20100423a1.html

does it contravene anything? If not, maybe worth a new thread...

[whybother]

MODERATOR,

Please look at this

<link deleted>

does it contravene anything? If not, maybe worth a new thread...

The heading contravenes the main thing in Thailand.

edit: but a very good article ... maybe an edited version would be good for Thai eyes.

Edited May 1, 2010 by whybother

[Old Man River]

Weng just appeared on Thai TV, saying that the guy wanted for the grenade attack on Banharn's house just happens to look exactly like the redshirt guy hanging around Chula hospital. You can't arrest people just because they look exactly like the wanted poster.

You are right, you can't arrest people because they are the exact image of a wanted poster. However, if they look exactly like the wanted poster and even have the same hairstyle, you do at least call them in for questioning and see if they can clear themselves. If you are a policeman, sworn to uphold the law, you are supposed to question the guy. If you don't at least do this, why bother even talking to witnesses of crimes in the first place?