Chulalongkorn Hospital Evacuated After Stormed By Red-Shirts

[monkfish]

My money's on Newin for the next PM to be sure, there just being the small matter of 5-year ban to get round. When's it up? Before December 2011...ahhh...

No chance - way too polarising and would lead us back to square one IMHO.

My money would be on Jaturon for next PM

Edited April 30, 2010 by monkfish

[Insight]

Understood hammered, but this to me sounds like old power games. Abhisit has won the hearts of many of the past few weeks and he is as distant from the typical Isaan gangster character as you can get.

No doubt things are different in the sticks but putting the country under the influence of somebody like Newin simply risks exposing everybody to what's going on here right now another time.

About time the country matured IMHO.

Abhisit will ned amiracle to survive all this. Even those who shoudl be his allies are critical and it purely a numbers game imho. Im not sying Newin will be th big man but wacth him. He is abetter player than most and very powerful

Why do you think that hammered? Opinions of the people who surround you or...?

I believe that loss of life is Abhisit's biggest threat. So far it's been extraordinary contained, but that can all change tomorrow. Until such an unfortunate event, I reckon Abhisit will be called upon to lead the country beyond this mess.

[BKMITCH]

Let's keep things in perspective pls. Why is any of this worse than what we've seen very recently, with people getting shot and grenades going off and people dying? I sense a lot of fabricated indignation; the Reds are jittery, they KNOW they can get their faces blown off at any time by government (or rogue army) snipers.. It's chaotic, someone thinks they see military in the building directly overlooking their site.. It happens to be a hospital, but better safe than sorry.

Good of Dr. Weng to apologize though, respect.

We must remember who is breaking the law. If you want change and it appears that is what the Red Shirts want, go home and vote when the election are held. Then, if you don't get what you want obey the laws. This suffering has gone on too long.

[dobadoy]

CNN report on hospital invasion:

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world...?iref=allsearch

This one from the Brit press

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/3...ital-red-shirts

I hate CNN's emotive drawl!

[dobadoy]

My money's on Newin for the next PM to be sure, there just being the small matter of 5-year ban to get round. When's it up? Before December 2011...ahhh...

No chance - way too polarising and would lead us back to square one IMHO.

My money would be on Jaturon [sic: Jatupon] for next PM

Even the reds in the know are backing Natthawut.

[way2muchcoffee]

So what you think about Weng seems clear, but would you agree with the jingthing interpretation too?

How it comes that member Hawk tells us something else? What is true?

Recap: The whole point started with member jingthing who wanted to frame and blame the red shirts for the October 76 tragedy with finger-pointing at Samak. mass murder of innocent peaceful non violent students, he said.

Unfortunately he refused to become more elaborate. Busy typing so many entries per day he had no time leftover to do it.

I said it is necessary to keep the things in context and look at the source of his information.

because it is mostly a version of the history that Dr. Weng and Prof. Giles Ji Ungpakorn opine. who are not exactly leading figures of the anti-red movement, right.

Actually is that what Jingthing called "common knowledge- google it" the history written & published by and according to Ungpakorn and former CPT like Weng and nobody else. A version recognised and accepted by the so called 'western liberal view'. And too detailed books about it are banned in Thailand. A reduced wiki version seems to be jungthings common "knowledge". In thai context something like 'wengen'.

Than in Thailand that version far from established, that explained Samaks reaction in the Al Jazeera interview "only one died". Only strange for western eyes. Samak was loyal to the constitution and a staunch anti-communist just like the Democrats Party for example, the Chuan Leekpai government wanted to honour Dictator Thanom Kittikachorn. And the evil-communist card or the blame game to label someone as anti-monarchist is still a tactic today, used against an anti-government protest.

You cannot one day rant again the unconstitutional students protests and claim they wanted to overthrow the monarchy and are all thuggish Maoist and a Marxist and so on. And three pages later suddenly start to to say they are all innocent and take Samak as bogeyman who represents the evil force. It is to complex and pretty complicated and cannot be reduce into two lines of hate comment. this way you will repeatedly commit a fallacy after fallacy.

I don't want to defend Marxism or claim that Samak is a good guy.

But you cannot say October massacre=peaceful students vs.Samak=PPP=Red Shirts

or October massacre=communist/maoist revolt=Weng/Giles=Red Shirts

Put and keep the things in context or you are nothing else than a dishonest demagogue, telling half truths and lies.

Good post mazeltov. I'm being genuine here, without any hidden sarcasm or digs.

[dobadoy]

Let's keep things in perspective pls. Why is any of this worse than what we've seen very recently, with people getting shot and grenades going off and people dying? I sense a lot of fabricated indignation; the Reds are jittery, they KNOW they can get their faces blown off at any time by government (or rogue army) snipers.. It's chaotic, someone thinks they see military in the building directly overlooking their site.. It happens to be a hospital, but better safe than sorry.

Good of Dr. Weng to apologize though, respect.

We must remember who is breaking the law. If you want change and it appears that is what the Red Shirts want, go home and vote when the election are held. Then, if you don't get what you want obey the laws. This suffering has gone on too long.

Joined in 2006 and this is only your THIRD post.

R.E.S.P.E.C.T brother!

[Jimi007]

yeh i know av/goverment, their media and lackeys are trying to blame all the 25 deaths and 800 injuries on the black shirts...

and trying to whitewash their part in the bloodbath...

You tried that line in another thread.

No one has said that ALL the deaths and injuries were caused by the black shirts.

Yes it was not just the black shirts but the reds too responsible for EVERY SINGLE DEATH AND INJURY

There is a law in the US and it states if you are part of a crime and somebody dies, you are responsible for that death. Example: You rob a bank with a friend and the police come and kill your friend because he is holding a weapon in a threatening manor. YOU are charged for murder. Not sure about Thailand but other states / countries have similar laws and it makes sense. Don't rob a bank and nobody dies.

Come on this is Thailand. They would be released on bail and become a citizen of Montenegro ...

[elcent]

Abhisit will ned amiracle to survive all this. Even those who shoudl be his allies are critical and it purely a numbers game imho. Im not sying Newin will be th big man but wacth him. He is abetter player than most and very powerful

Agreed. Even if he wins the battle he won't win the war. At the end of the day, there has to be reconciliation for the 'true believers' on both sides, and Abhisit can no more bring this country to a settled and lasting peace than Thaskin could. Personally, I hope he'll clear the path for someone who can finally bring Thaksin's long divisive legacy to an end. Maybe he can return to fulfil his 'promise' in better times much further down the road.

never, it's to late, far to late. Thaksin's behaving like a coward out of the books. He will be held responsible for far more other things that haven't been put on the table yet.

Newin, in case he makes it, will be very very short lived.

There will be new generations of politicians coming and the old power cliques will be things of the past. It will move pretty fast ones this mess is cleared. Abhisit may have another chance after 6 years.

The courts will deliver tough punishments for red and yellow leaders. Thailand will never be the same in terms of corruption and monkey business.

[jdinasia]

Understood hammered, but this to me sounds like old power games. Abhisit has won the hearts of many of the past few weeks and he is as distant from the typical Isaan gangster character as you can get.

No doubt things are different in the sticks but putting the country under the influence of somebody like Newin simply risks exposing everybody to what's going on here right now another time.

About time the country matured IMHO.

Abhisit will ned amiracle to survive all this. Even those who shoudl be his allies are critical and it purely a numbers game imho. Im not sying Newin will be th big man but wacth him. He is abetter player than most and very powerful

Why do you think that hammered? Opinions of the people who surround you or...?

I believe that loss of life is Abhisit's biggest threat. So far it's been extraordinary contained, but that can all change tomorrow. Until such an unfortunate event, I reckon Abhisit will be called upon to lead the country beyond this mess.

There's a good chance (imho) that Abhisit can survive until the next elections unless something goes terribly bad immediately.

Now ... Can Abhisit survive longer than that?

I am not sure. If MAJOR red heads tumble over this mess then he may very well come out GOLDEN. If by stalling and not going in HARD he gave time for evidence come to light that shows some of the claims against Chavalit are true. That Sae Daeng and others are not only behind the attacks but that they were given direction from above? Then he comes out smelling like a rose.

I honestly (sadly) doubt too many major Red heads will roll. Therefore the Dems will have Abhisit fall on his sword and hopefully Korn can step up. If those two flipped a coin to see who would go for the brass ring first ... I am sure that Abhisit rues the day that he lost!

[dobadoy]

The courts will deliver tough punishments for red and yellow leaders. Thailand will never be the same in terms of corruption and monkey business.

I hope you're right, but both the history and culture of this country lead me to think this is Western romanticism.

[elcent]

CNN report on hospital invasion:

http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world...?iref=allsearch

This one from the Brit press

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/3...ital-red-shirts

I hate CNN's emotive drawl!

Still no mentioning that TWO MEN HAVE BEEN KIDNAPPED FROM THE HOSPITAL.

Edited April 30, 2010 by elcent

[monkfish]

My money's on Newin for the next PM to be sure, there just being the small matter of 5-year ban to get round. When's it up? Before December 2011...ahhh...

No chance - way too polarising and would lead us back to square one IMHO.

My money would be on Jaturon [sic: Jatupon] for next PM

Even the reds in the know are backing Natthawut.

Nope Jaturon Chaisaeng former finance minister of TRT want to take the bet?

[Tigs]

Abhisit will ned amiracle to survive all this. Even those who shoudl be his allies are critical and it purely a numbers game imho. Im not sying Newin will be th big man but wacth him. He is abetter player than most and very powerful

Agreed. Even if he wins the battle he won't win the war. At the end of the day, there has to be reconciliation for the 'true believers' on both sides, and Abhisit can no more bring this country to a settled and lasting peace than Thaskin could. Personally, I hope he'll clear the path for someone who can finally bring Thaksin's long divisive legacy to an end. Maybe he can return to fulfil his 'promise' in better times much further down the road.

never, it's to late, far to late. Thaksin's behaving like a coward out of the books. He will be held responsible for far more other things that haven't been put on the table yet.

Newin, in case he makes it, will be very very short lived.

There will be new generations of politicians coming and the old power cliques will be things of the past. It will move pretty fast ones this mess is cleared. Abhisit may have another chance after 6 years.

The courts will deliver tough punishments for red and yellow leaders. Thailand will never be the same in terms of corruption and monkey business.

I doubt that the yellow leaders will be punished and the reason is simple. I am sure that when the yellows rapped it all up last time, their first item on the agenda at the negotiating table was that all yellow leaders would have immunity for what happened during the protests. This is a luxury that the red leaders now realise they are not going to get. They are getting desperate because of this and have little to lose now. I believe that they are stuffed and they know it. The PM should now completely ignore anything said at the first negotiation with these cowboys and go for the throat, it is just a matter of time.

[dobadoy]

Nope Jaturon Chaisaeng former finance minister of TRT want to take the bet?

Apologies. Thought it was a typo.

As to the point: not a chance Pheua Thai are going to be a majority. A lot of people seem to forget that TRT back in their heyday only had a majority via i. buying politicians from other parties and ii. coalition voting. Those glory days are long gone, and after this debacle, no matter who wins, you're not going to get a Pheua-led government.

I go back to my original point: Newin is the only one who can bridge both sides.

[mazeltov]

Newin named after notorious Burmese general Ne Win by his parents. Strange parents?

Why is it strange?

His father Chai Chidchob is an MP and the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Member of the Bhumjaithai Party part of the current coalition government lead by Abhisit.

Strange people in the government?

[dobadoy]

I doubt that the yellow leaders will be punished and the reason is simple. I am sure that when the yellows rapped it all up last time, their first item on the agenda at the negotiating table was that all yellow leaders would have immunity for what happened during the protests. This is a luxury that the red leaders now realise they are not going to get. They are getting desperate because of this and have little to lose now. I believe that they are stuffed and they know it. The PM should now completely ignore anything said at the first negotiation with these cowboys and go for the throat, it is just a matter of time.

Nope. Amnesty for the big boys in return for a few small fry scapegoats will be an under-the-table precondition on any deal for not starting a guerilla war.

100% on this.

Edited April 30, 2010 by dobadoy

[elcent]

Nope Jaturon Chaisaeng former finance minister of TRT want to take the bet?

Apologies. Thought it was a typo.

As to the point: not a chance Pheua Thai are going to be a majority. A lot of people seem to forget that TRT back in their heyday only had a majority via i. buying politicians from other parties and ii. coalition voting. Those glory days are long gone, and after this debacle, no matter who wins, you're not going to get a Pheua-led government.

I go back to my original point: Newin is the only one who can bridge both sides.

that's on the board drawings, but reality will be different.

[elcent]

I doubt that the yellow leaders will be punished and the reason is simple. I am sure that when the yellows rapped it all up last time, their first item on the agenda at the negotiating table was that all yellow leaders would have immunity for what happened during the protests. This is a luxury that the red leaders now realise they are not going to get. They are getting desperate because of this and have little to lose now. I believe that they are stuffed and they know it. The PM should now completely ignore anything said at the first negotiation with these cowboys and go for the throat, it is just a matter of time.

Nope. Amnesty for the big boys in return for a few small fry scapegoats will be an under-the-table precondition on any deal for not starting a guerilla war.

100% on this.

the reds wanted the guerrilla war but failed. I'll be sleeping much better tonight after I've seen the common folks rejecting it and the good cops in action.

It will be tough for red and yellow, which are the main instigators all the way long. There will be more revelation of background players coming to make sure there is no escape from punishment.

[jdinasia]

Abhisit will ned amiracle to survive all this. Even those who shoudl be his allies are critical and it purely a numbers game imho. Im not sying Newin will be th big man but wacth him. He is abetter player than most and very powerful

Agreed. Even if he wins the battle he won't win the war. At the end of the day, there has to be reconciliation for the 'true believers' on both sides, and Abhisit can no more bring this country to a settled and lasting peace than Thaskin could. Personally, I hope he'll clear the path for someone who can finally bring Thaksin's long divisive legacy to an end. Maybe he can return to fulfil his 'promise' in better times much further down the road.

never, it's to late, far to late. Thaksin's behaving like a coward out of the books. He will be held responsible for far more other things that haven't been put on the table yet.

Newin, in case he makes it, will be very very short lived.

There will be new generations of politicians coming and the old power cliques will be things of the past. It will move pretty fast ones this mess is cleared. Abhisit may have another chance after 6 years.

The courts will deliver tough punishments for red and yellow leaders. Thailand will never be the same in terms of corruption and monkey business.

I doubt that the yellow leaders will be punished and the reason is simple. I am sure that when the yellows rapped it all up last time, their first item on the agenda at the negotiating table was that all yellow leaders would have immunity for what happened during the protests. This is a luxury that the red leaders now realise they are not going to get. They are getting desperate because of this and have little to lose now. I believe that they are stuffed and they know it. The PM should now completely ignore anything said at the first negotiation with these cowboys and go for the throat, it is just a matter of time.

I agree with your conclusion but not your reasoning. The PAD's actions at Government House were roughly cleared by the injunction they had stopping them from being removed. The PAD's actions at Parliament were covered by Chavalit falling on his sword and taking responsibility for the police crackdown. The PAD's choice to go to Swampy is mitigated by the grenade attacks that the police failed to prevent (even at Swampy). The closure of the airport itself falls directly on the AOT chief in charge of the airport.

So what happens to the leaders of the PAD? They lose in civil court. They pay at least 1 billion baht in fines and penalties. Much of that to Thai Air the national carrier. Sonthi L gets hit harder, probably 3 years in jail from his conviction when he loses the appeal. The court then takes the assassinition attempt into account and reduces the sentence.

The Reds ... nothing will save Weng Veera and Jatuporn.

[elcent]

I just want to express my sympathies and admiration for the nurses, doctors and other staff from Chulalongkorn Hospital who selflessly have acted for their patients welfare with responsibility in a speedy manner.

To all the patients out there. I pray and wish you all a speedy recovery, you're heroes too.

- Love and the power of it can heal many wounds.

[lannarebirth]

I doubt that the yellow leaders will be punished and the reason is simple. I am sure that when the yellows rapped it all up last time, their first item on the agenda at the negotiating table was that all yellow leaders would have immunity for what happened during the protests. This is a luxury that the red leaders now realise they are not going to get. They are getting desperate because of this and have little to lose now. I believe that they are stuffed and they know it. The PM should now completely ignore anything said at the first negotiation with these cowboys and go for the throat, it is just a matter of time.

Nope. Amnesty for the big boys in return for a few small fry scapegoats will be an under-the-table precondition on any deal for not starting a guerilla war.

100% on this.

the reds wanted the guerrilla war but failed. I'll be sleeping much better tonight after I've seen the common folks rejecting it and the good cops in action.

It will be tough for red and yellow, which are the main instigators all the way long. There will be more revelation of background players coming to make sure there is no escape from punishment.

We still don't have any idea of their resources for pressing a guerilla war. I think the high crowd count "padding" around the hardcore element will soon abate. Then we'll know what kind of mayhem they really have in store and if they're willing to do it without all those civilians running interference for them. We also don't know what kinds of violence they have planned for other areas of the country. It would help alot if DSI could turn a few more stool pigeons.

[jdinasia]

I doubt that the yellow leaders will be punished and the reason is simple. I am sure that when the yellows rapped it all up last time, their first item on the agenda at the negotiating table was that all yellow leaders would have immunity for what happened during the protests. This is a luxury that the red leaders now realise they are not going to get. They are getting desperate because of this and have little to lose now. I believe that they are stuffed and they know it. The PM should now completely ignore anything said at the first negotiation with these cowboys and go for the throat, it is just a matter of time.

Nope. Amnesty for the big boys in return for a few small fry scapegoats will be an under-the-table precondition on any deal for not starting a guerilla war.

100% on this.

the reds wanted the guerrilla war but failed. I'll be sleeping much better tonight after I've seen the common folks rejecting it and the good cops in action.

It will be tough for red and yellow, which are the main instigators all the way long. There will be more revelation of background players coming to make sure there is no escape from punishment.

We still don't have any idea of their resources for pressing a guerilla war. I think the high crowd count "padding" around the hardcore element will soon abate. Then we'll know what kind of mayhem they really have in store and if they're willing to do it without all those civilians running interference for them. We also don't know what kinds of violence they have planned for other areas of the country. It would help alot if DSI could turn a few more stool pigeons.

I disagree with the conclusion that the Red big boys will all get any kind of Amnesty. If they nail Weng I think he'd take it, Veera has already served time in jail for a failed coup etc ...

If however they grap a couple of core leaders like jatuporn and strip him of his parliamentary immunity and threaten him with the needle. I think he'd crumble and give them all up to save himself from the death sentence for treason.

[Meridian007]

I just want to express my sympathies and admiration for the nurses, doctors and other staff from Chulalongkorn Hospital who selflessly have acted for their patients welfare with responsibility in a speedy manner.

To all the patients out there. I pray and wish you all a speedy recovery, you're heroes too.

- Love and the power of it can heal many wounds.

Hear, hear! And also for the doctors and other staff at the other hospitals who have to work extra hard to cover the workload from Chula. (my gf is one of them, she's working overnight tonight, and she only just got a chance to call me. She is swamped!)

[Jimi007]

I'm borrowing this quote from someone I met: The root of all evil isn't money, it is the "greed" of money! I'm not sure of the origin, but it seems applicable to the Thai's and many other people's problems...

[souvenirdeparis]

The whole thing isn't that easy, even in the lower North east are red meetings on daily bases. They pay 500 for a ordinary citizen and up to 2,000 for an 'educated' person. The reds would only win, if the actual PM would leave.

.

can Farang apply ?

[jcbangkok]

I'm borrowing this quote from someone I met: The root of all evil isn't money, it is the "greed" of money! I'm not sure of the origin, but it seems applicable to the Thai's and many other people's problems...

For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Timothy 6:10 (The Bible)

[dobadoy]

The paper that cannot be mentioned scathing on the reds, but also Abhisit. Pointing out that, despite all the strong rhetoric, Payap and Seh Daeng are walking around Bangkok at will. Not to mention hob-nobbing with police commanders...

Hey, but "we will not tolerate intimdation of the public" ... :-(

[farangnonthaburi]

It's completely absurd how every time a "farang" has an opinion then someone has to counter that he/she doesn't have the right. I have been living in Thailand for nearly 15 years now, I have Thai children and run a business that employs 10+ Thais. Over the past 15 years I have probably paid more tax than some of these $#$ redshirts have in their whole life and I have helped support many Thais by creating jobs and opportunities. This morning we had to let go 6 Thai staff because the business has slowed down so much that we cannot pay their salaries. It's completely absurd and a stain on Thailand and especially The North. As a matter of fact my wife's family is from Udon Thani and she has always prided herself in being from Isaan, but not anymore.

It's also completely absurd how the western media is portraying this whole debacle. Had this taken place anywhere in Europe, the riot police would have been much more heavy handed than the Thai authorities. I am 100% certain that any MOB trying to block a European government using the means of the red shirt mob would have been dealt with quickly and decisively.

The way the police force is conducting themselves here is also outrageous. They are not paid to have an opinion, they are paid to uphold the law and if they can't they should be replaced.

The latest hospital stunt is the last drop and I fervently hope the army will find their balls and nuke these ass holes.

I started reading this but saw you are a farang and then realized your opinion didn't matter ;-)

I don't even take offense :-) I know I am a second class citizen and can in no way measure up to the moral conduct of ordinary Thais. Obviously I should be censored and kicked out of the country for having an opinion.

The two times you will usually hear your opinion is not welcome as a farang is when ...

1) you are giving an opinion which they don't agree with

2) You have some farang who things he is better then everyone else sharing his opinion on how farangs shouldn't share their opinion while in Thailand. What the fail to understand is that they are violating their own claimed belief since it is not up to them to have an opinion of how anyone speaks or behaves in Thailand.

In either case it is rarely ever a Thai saying you shouldn't voice your opinion. If they are, see #1

Nobody can deny Thailand is a copy cat society and has great interest in learning EVERYTHING about what is done in other countries.

I've just had enough soon - actually I have had enough for a while already... I think it's time we have a Farang Coup. I vote for myself a prime minister. I think I have enough cash to get about 300 or so Isan votes....

[farangnonthaburi]

The Red PR should be real proud of the photos of the displacement of patients.

Without question they will say that those photos are photoshopped...