Double Nationality Question

[chevyinasia]

@chevyinasia Thanks, I love the info you've provided here. I'll do that probably next year since now I'm already (thanks to the nice officer at my new school) in the process of a Non-B + work permit. I definitely would love to have a Non-O visa soon. Is that what you have yourself ... and you work without work permit ?

Yes, I have a Non-O. I previously had a Non-O based on my foreigner wife working in Thailand and I was able to get a work permit under that. I learned that the Immigration Department has different requirements for a Non-B than the Labor Department does for a work permit. Anyhow, my wife's contract was not renewed, so her Non-B (and therefore my Non-O) were effectively expired. I was able to get a new Non-O based on my Thai nationality and no work permit is required. So much more convenient. However, I am now in the peculiar position of trying to get a spouse visa for my farang wife.

[jcon]

First, if I've read correctly, the OP already has a Thai ID card (which means he is already registered on a tabien baan).

I takes 3 days to get a Thai Passport. Go to the Office of Consular affairs on Chaengwattana Rd, and it will very literally take you fewer than 30 mins. They will swipe your Thai ID, then you just go through the door where it's kind of an assembly line. Sit at the desk, photo taken right there, just like the Thai DMV does. Proceed to cashier. 1000 baht IIRC (maybe 20 baht processing fee also, can't recall). Come pick it up in 3 days. I just did this for my Thai Passport renewal. It took me 15 mins from when I parked my car to when I was out the door (went at 3pm). When I picked up my passport, it took me fewer than 10 mins (I was the only one there). This was just last month. Yes, I realize that I was there for a 'renewal,' but the process for the first passport is exactly the same (Thai PP only good for 5 years).

That part is easy.

As far as the stamping in/out go - there seems to be a few options. Somebody mentioned to leave Thailand on the foreign passport (the one which was used to enter Thailand), use the Foreign PP to enter/exit the next country, and then return on the Thai PP. The problem there is that there will be no "departure" to match your "arrival." If the case is as as samran says, then maybe that would work if you spoke to a higher-up at immigration.

This is what I did (a bit over 5 years ago): I just got a foreign passport at the local embassy here in Thailand. No stamps, but they gave me a letter to give to immigration upon my exit to show that I had previously come into the country on that passport. Now what I did was simply leave Thailand on my new Thai PP, and enter/exit the next country on my other passport. No questions were asked about why I had no stamps upon my arrival in my other home country. Immigration just said, "Welcome home."

Then entered Thailand on my Thai passport (so that matched up the arrival to the earlier departure). Now I realize that it may be the case that in the system, I guess I've never technically left Thailand on my old Passport, but in that eventuality I suppose it would be similar to the route samran is suggesting. I've never had a problem with either passport in the 5 years since, and I've traveled the world. Maybe I got lucky because of the lack of inter-connectedness of technologies, etc., but that's the way I did it.

I'd be interested in hearing the "correct" method of doing this, however - as I have family in the same situation who aren't willing to do it the way I did it.

Edit: You do have to bring your foreign passport in order to pick up your Thai passport. Also, I cannot read, nor write in Thai, but can speak Thai - no barriers there, it can all be done in English.

Edited May 10, 2010 by jcon

[TerryLH]

"Edit: You do have to bring your foreign passport in order to pick up your Thai passport."

Why? That makes no sense.

OP

Go spend a 1000฿ to get a Thai passport, then go to immigration and ask them what to do.

This should've been a no brainer once the OP said he had a Thai ID and is on a house registration.

[Arkady]

Immigration are Police and always take a very restricted view of dual citizenship but have no basis for action in law so for the most past have to back down if challenged. But; due mostly to the obvious problems this creates in the South, there are many who wish to tighten (and/or eliminate). I suspect a court of law would not back up the police at this juncture. But there may be a new set of rules if the constitution is re-written in the next few months.

You are right. Immigration seems to take the view that dual citizenship is a device that allows criminals to evade the law and stops them from being able to do their job of tracking people's movements properly. The senior officers seem to have instructed officers that it is an illegal practice. Unfortunately a court is unlikely to ever opine on this because the Nationality Act doesn't provide for any judicial process. All matters to do with nationality are up the discretion of the Interior Minister. I am not sure what the view of the ministry is as they haven't made this clear, which may be just as well, but I assume that under the current minister it is negative. I think there is fortunately little likelihood of nationality rules being changed along with the constitution. Unlike Singapore and Malaysia, for example, which do mandate a single nationality in their constitutions (quite possibly to avoid having a large number of dual Singapore-Malaysia nationals since they were originally the same country), nationality rules have never been included in the Thai constitution. As they work under time pressure and have to get approval from a joint session of parliament, Thai constitution drafters usually only change what they regard as absolutely essential for political aims and tend to leave all else unchanged. The Southern problem is certainly an issue here, as is perhaps now the Thaksin issue. However, the problem in the South seems to be largely people who have got ID cards they are not entitled to. Because wages are higher in Malaysia, some Thai Malays like to take their new born kids over the border and register them as born in Malaysia with the help of relatives over the border and possibly using different names. I think the Thais regard the problem as one of largely genuine Thai citizens who also a fake Malaysian ID and nationality and move across the border without passing checkpoints or using passports. In this case there is nothing the Thais can do to crack down on it by tightening up the Nationality Act or passport control. The Nationality Act was amended in 2008, having previously been amended in 1992. With the Interior Ministry's current urgent agenda to improve Bhumjai Thai's at the next agenda, I don't think that coming out with yet another nationality act is going to be a priority.

[tombkk]

All matters to do with nationality are up the discretion of the Interior Minister. I am not sure what the view of the ministry is as they haven't made this clear, which may be just as well, but I assume that under the current minister it is negative.

The current Interior Minister is at the same time the Honorary Consul-General of Papua New Guinea (no joke). And he is not signing PR applications. I will let this hang here for a moment...