Thailand Could Deteriorate Into Undeclared Civil War

[Neurath]

I am always willing to learn - my search for education and depth of knowledge rarely ceases

You have enlightened me on two fronts and your education is much appreciated........I am lazy when it comes to back ground political research because until I identify tangible results I do not tend to swallow any 'party line'.....you see I have nothing I want to sell, and as stated only in the market to buy when tangible evidence is presented.......so you are correct I maybe better avoiding the complex issues........ ........any figures on how much real revenue this 'land tax' will flush from the wealthy? Would the cost not reduce their tax payments on profits......is the tax more than the annual increase in the land value?

Nice Geo ---- You sell the Red party -line but claim not to sell anything. You admit that you don't know the complicated issues but feel free to challenge the government's plans and accomplishments. What do you base those challenges on? Research? No, not by your admission.

So tell me Geo ---

What has PPP/PTP done for the poor? If you decide they did in fact, accomplish something. How did that manifest itself across the ENTIRE country in a sustainable way? You may feel free to answer for TRT as well but please remember the sustainable portion of the question!

If you want to see results it would behoove the reds to go home and see the results. They have, after all, been offered elections a whole year early!

It would also be good if you spoke up about the behaviour of the reds .. and what you think the consequences of said behaviour should be. Or would that require information that you don't possess?

I find it very interesting that you wish comment from a person who is accused of not knowing what they are talking about..........

Perhaps looking for an easy platform to allow you further comment along such lines.......

Maybe you could care to do some research on my previous posts........where I have......

Declared that I find violence by either side unacceptable.

That Abhisit is a capable man and I applaud his patient stance, (in the face of pressure from many) to avoid a bloody 'crack down'

I feel, irrespective of the pathetic 'tit for tat' debates (that are circulating on TV) an election is the fair solution. I do not see what Abhisit has to fear......his opposition on the street appears to have no manifesto.......

I join the many voices who are crying out for various improvements to move Thailand forward.......which come from all sides.....

I think also there are a few people on this forum who are getting a bit stale and losing sight of the fact that you do not have to be on one side or the other to acknowledge that change is necessary to move Thailand forward.

Demanding an immediate dissolution of the house (15 days, 30 days whatever) and backing that up with force of arms and strangulation of key economic infrastructure is a blow against the legitimacy of any seated government and any conceivable way that they could be seated- now or in the future. Decisions need to be made about increasing economic and social opportunity, those decisions will entail wealth redistribution. If precedents are continually set allowing for groups to remove constitutionally seated governments then no government, not this one and not the next, can implement policy. Ever.

No immediate election under these conditions.

[deadsnoopy]

Looks like Thaksin has now switched sides and is joining the pinks

[deadsnoopy]

Many people here have made the mistaken assumption that because Abhisit is currently clashing with this PTP/UDD/Red Shirt machine that he is pro yellow faction, and that just isn't the case

What was the reason he appointed Kasit his Foreign Minister, then? Not to mention Abhisit's father is on the board of directors of one of the companies who gave the most money to the yellow PAD.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Many people here have made the mistaken assumption that because Abhisit is currently clashing with this PTP/UDD/Red Shirt machine that he is pro yellow faction, and that just isn't the case

What was the reason he appointed Kasit his Foreign Minister, then? Not to mention Abhisit's father is on the board of directors of one of the companies who gave the most money to the yellow PAD.

Exactly! why, why, why? to suggest he is not yellow is an absurdity that not even the most ardent yellow fellows can defend.

[pimay11]

I join the many voices who are crying out for various improvements to move Thailand forward.......which come from all sides.....

I think also there are a few people on this forum who are getting a bit stale and losing sight of the fact that you do not have to be on one side or the other to acknowledge that change is necessary to move Thailand forward.

I disagree, as things stand now you have to be on neither side to see changes that bring improvements to the quality of most people's lives. That change is all coming from the middle, where the Abhisit government resides. The red/yellow factions are impediments to change. Many people here have made the mistaken assumption that because Abhisit is currently clashing with this PTP/UDD/Red Shirt machine that he is pro yellow faction, and that just isn't the case

People wishing to give their children an opportunity for an educated more rewarding life than they may have experienced.......come from all sides........my statement was not about colours......

The Abhisit administration is in the process of implementing policies that will bring improvements to all Thai peoples lives. He must figure out a way to communicate this to the masses. He must have the cooperation of the local government people at the village level. At this time he does not have this in the North and Northeast. He also must deal with the ongoing crisis plus run the country. I admire his tenacity and patience in dealing with the red issue. Needless to say he is between a rock and a hard place. I understand there are people on this forum who want the military to end this immediately. I think this should have happened in the very beginning but now the reds are self destructing and loosing support daily. They and the PTP have not put forth any agenda to improve the economy or the situation of the poor which they are claiming to represent. I don't want to sound like a broken record but everyone except the poor sheep sleeping on the streets know this is only about one man.

[473geo]

I join the many voices who are crying out for various improvements to move Thailand forward.......which come from all sides.....

I think also there are a few people on this forum who are getting a bit stale and losing sight of the fact that you do not have to be on one side or the other to acknowledge that change is necessary to move Thailand forward.

I disagree, as things stand now you have to be on neither side to see changes that bring improvements to the quality of most people's lives. That change is all coming from the middle, where the Abhisit government resides. The red/yellow factions are impediments to change. Many people here have made the mistaken assumption that because Abhisit is currently clashing with this PTP/UDD/Red Shirt machine that he is pro yellow faction, and that just isn't the case

People wishing to give their children an opportunity for an educated more rewarding life than they may have experienced.......come from all sides........my statement was not about colours......

The Abhisit administration is in the process of implementing policies that will bring improvements to all Thai peoples lives. He must figure out a way to communicate this to the masses. He must have the cooperation of the local government people at the village level. At this time he does not have this in the North and Northeast. He also must deal with the ongoing crisis plus run the country. I admire his tenacity and patience in dealing with the red issue. Needless to say he is between a rock and a hard place. I understand there are people on this forum who want the military to end this immediately. I think this should have happened in the very beginning but now the reds are self destructing and loosing support daily. They and the PTP have not put forth any agenda to improve the economy or the situation of the poor which they are claiming to represent. I don't want to sound like a broken record but everyone except the poor sheep sleeping on the streets know this is only about one man.

Funny (apart from your cracked record) Weeks ago at the start of this protest on this very forum I advocated Abhisit get vocal and passionate and reached out to the rural areas - at that time I was accused of being a Yellow supporter - well done for catching up....

[deadsnoopy]

PM to talk to foreign press more on political problems

BANGKOK (NNT) -- The Thai government will explain the ongoing domestic political situation with the international community on a continuous basis to prevent problems from the government’s operations to deal with protests.

Speaking in his weekly television program “Confidence in Thailand with Prime Minister Abhisit,” the prime minister admitted that understanding needed to be created continuously since many sides were still confused over the situation in Thailand.

Prime Minister Abhisit noted that he had explained the country’s situation in his recent meeting with Timor's president upon his visit to Thailand. He said the latter now understood that law enforcement and operations of the Thai government against the protests were justified.

The prime minister added that he would give more interviews to the international media, apart from his previous interviews with CNN and BBC, in a bid to make the government’s security and political solutions acceptable among the international community.

-- NNT 2010-05-02

I'm sure the people of Timor will be happy to get updated on how things are going with the red shirts.

[pimay11]

Well said 473geo.

Funny (apart from your cracked record) Weeks ago at the start of this protest on this very forum I advocated Abhisit get vocal and passionate and reached out to the rural areas - at that time I was accused of being a Yellow supporter - well done for catching up....

You're the kind of man I like. A man of vision. Abhisit should use the Sunday morning broadcast to explain the policies his adminstration is implementating or has plans to implement to help the Thai populace. No one else is doing this.

As for catching up, I may be in the slow lane sometimes but I eventually get there. BTW as you I am not a supporter of any color. I support what is right and adhears to common sense.

[Jerrytheyoung]

I join the many voices who are crying out for various improvements to move Thailand forward.......which come from all sides.....

I think also there are a few people on this forum who are getting a bit stale and losing sight of the fact that you do not have to be on one side or the other to acknowledge that change is necessary to move Thailand forward.

I disagree, as things stand now you have to be on neither side to see changes that bring improvements to the quality of most people's lives. That change is all coming from the middle, where the Abhisit government resides. The red/yellow factions are impediments to change. Many people here have made the mistaken assumption that because Abhisit is currently clashing with this PTP/UDD/Red Shirt machine that he is pro yellow faction, and that just isn't the case

People wishing to give their children an opportunity for an educated more rewarding life than they may have experienced.......come from all sides........my statement was not about colours......

The Abhisit administration is in the process of implementing policies that will bring improvements to all Thai peoples lives. He must figure out a way to communicate this to the masses. He must have the cooperation of the local government people at the village level. At this time he does not have this in the North and Northeast. He also must deal with the ongoing crisis plus run the country. I admire his tenacity and patience in dealing with the red issue. Needless to say he is between a rock and a hard place. I understand there are people on this forum who want the military to end this immediately. I think this should have happened in the very beginning but now the reds are self destructing and loosing support daily. They and the PTP have not put forth any agenda to improve the economy or the situation of the poor which they are claiming to represent. I don't want to sound like a broken record but everyone except the poor sheep sleeping on the streets know this is only about one man.

BUDGET!!! Where is the Budget... Only rhetorics.

[deadsnoopy]

According to Thai news, Abhisit just allocated something over 200 million Baht to police to better deal with the protesters. Like they have done anything for their money so far? I wonder how many Benz's that will buy. Or BMW motorbikes.

If he could only allocate that much to the poor Thais, there wouldn't be so many red shirts on the streets, I'm sure.

[ChiangMaiFun]

According to Thai news, Abhisit just allocated something over 200 million Baht to police to better deal with the protesters. Like they have done anything for their money so far? I wonder how many Benz's that will buy. Or BMW motorbikes.

If he could only allocate that much to the poor Thais, there wouldn't be so many red shirts on the streets, I'm sure.

Right...

[pimay11]

jerrytheyoung: BUDGET!!! Where is the Budget... Only rhetorics.

The budget my friend is in the government coffers. This is how the government funds projects. The government collects taxes and the funds are divided up to support various projects. Government 101. If there is not enough money to fund projects the government has an option to float bonds or borrow money.

[simonmiller]

You bet. What makes these external interests/groups more capable of de-fusing the political situation? I realize that objectivity plays a role, but are there many examples where external intervention in the conflicts between internal factions in a country actually resultant in a positive solution?

Anyone?

Kosovo? Bosnia? External interventionists (usually) only intervene when things have already got really bad - so the external forces coming in often seem as though they have created the chaos that was already developing. I can't see the UN sending troops to Thailand, surely? (Might be good for the battered Tourist industry though... plenty of R&R dollars to spend...)

[pimay11]

You bet. What makes these external interests/groups more capable of de-fusing the political situation? I realize that objectivity plays a role, but are there many examples where external intervention in the conflicts between internal factions in a country actually resultant in a positive solution?

External group eliminate paymaster. No paymaster = no funds. No funds = no reds. End of story.

[Slip]

Anyone?

Kosovo? Bosnia? External interventionists (usually) only intervene when things have already got really bad - so the external forces coming in often seem as though they have created the chaos that was already developing. I can't see the UN sending troops to Thailand, surely? (Might be good for the battered Tourist industry though... plenty of R&R dollars to spend...)

LOL- Surely if the UN (or anyone else for that matter) sent troops to Thailand, the problem would be over in 2 quick shakes. No more internal squabble required.

[EDIT: Fixed quote as it was not showing who said what]

Edited May 2, 2010 by Slip

[animatic]

I disagree, as things stand now you have to be on neither side to see changes that bring improvements to the quality of most people's lives. That change is all coming from the middle, where the Abhisit government resides. The red/yellow factions are impediments to change. Many people here have made the mistaken assumption that because Abhisit is currently clashing with this PTP/UDD/Red Shirt machine that he is pro yellow faction, and that just isn't the case

People wishing to give their children an opportunity for an educated more rewarding life than they may have experienced.......come from all sides........my statement was not about colours......

The Abhisit administration is in the process of implementing policies that will bring improvements to all Thai peoples lives. He must figure out a way to communicate this to the masses. He must have the cooperation of the local government people at the village level. At this time he does not have this in the North and Northeast. He also must deal with the ongoing crisis plus run the country. I admire his tenacity and patience in dealing with the red issue. Needless to say he is between a rock and a hard place. I understand there are people on this forum who want the military to end this immediately. I think this should have happened in the very beginning but now the reds are self destructing and loosing support daily. They and the PTP have not put forth any agenda to improve the economy or the situation of the poor which they are claiming to represent. I don't want to sound like a broken record but everyone except the poor sheep sleeping on the streets know this is only about one man.

BUDGET!!! Where is the Budget... Only rhetorics.

Jerry the don't want to fold the government now,

because the WANT TO PASS THE BUDGET FIRST....

Seems you haven't grasped that nettle yet.

Because if PTP gets their mits on it, it's toast and all the good potential wasted.

They spent last year salvaging the economy, because PPP completely IGNORED

the coming world crisis focusing on Thaksin/TRT recovery efforts,

and the country was ill prepared when the hammer fell.

This year, finally back on track, the Dems HAVE started projects, but the budget must be passed.

PTP and Thaksin want first crack at that money to finance their election plans.

That and jigger the army and police lists back their way, making a full take over easier.

Very simple really.

I don't care who runs the country as long as they are competent

and at least have some semblance of honesty towards helping ALL the people.

I know PTP will NOT meet that criteria, and worse will dismantle good things for their profit..

Edited May 2, 2010 by animatic

[deadsnoopy]

Jerry the don't want to fold the government now,

because the WANT TO PASS THE BUDGET FIRST....

Seems you haven't grasped that nettle yet.

Because if PTP gets their mits on it, it's toast and all the good potential wasted.

They spent last year salvaging the economy, because PPP completely IGNORED

the coming world crisis focusing on Thaksin/TRT recovery efforts,

and the country was ill prepared when the hammer fell.

This year, finally back on track, the Dems HAVE started projects, but the budget must be passed.

PTP and Thaksin want first crack at that money to finance their election plans.

That and jigger the army and police lists back their way, making a full take over easier.

Very simple really.

I don't care who runs the country as long as they are competent

and at least have some semblance of honesty towards helping ALL the people.

I know PTP will NOT meet that criteria, and worse will dismantle good things for their profit..

You realize that the "budget" they're trying to pass isn't a budget to help the poor people, but to give more funds to the army, right?

[simonmiller]

The Reds offer little to Thailand. No education or skills to help compete in the global economy. Excessively macho aggressive personalities. They may say they want democracy but even if it came it wouldn't help them. They are obsolete and will never have decent wages or positions of power. This is their swan song. Soon enough they will return back to their dried up rice fields to sit drinking Lao Khao and chewing on bettle nut. Of course agriculture is a vital industry but in much of the world this too is done by highly educated people with business management skills. The reds will be left behind if they like it or not. Thailand ought to take a few tanks and run over their puny barricades to introduce them to the 21st century and send them running scared. However the rest of Thailand may not be ready for the world either so maybe this will go on a while.

Wasabi - your post suggests that you believe it is appropriate for large parts of te population to remain illiterate, uneducated and poverty-stricken. It is a shame people cannot see the people of this country as Thai first, then Red/Yellow/Purple/whatever second - it is through such hateful and blinkered perspectives that the seeds of civil war are sown.

[lannarebirth]

Many people here have made the mistaken assumption that because Abhisit is currently clashing with this PTP/UDD/Red Shirt machine that he is pro yellow faction, and that just isn't the case

What was the reason he appointed Kasit his Foreign Minister, then? Not to mention Abhisit's father is on the board of directors of one of the companies who gave the most money to the yellow PAD.

I think that was a mistake. He clearly was not his first choice. I'll give you an example of how you can agree with some things and not others using myself as an example. I hated PAD's close links to the military. Their "new politics" blunder was both stupid and insulting. Their leaders are iffy. I disagree with the central tenet of their organization, which we can't talk about. I liked that they were anti-Thaksin and that's all. I don't care what becomes of them now frankly.

[momentumwaves]

So, to re-cap.

Is Thailand closer, or further away from a civil war, now that Abhisit has declared his latest strategy?

[Jerrytheyoung]

Jerry the don't want to fold the government now,

because the WANT TO PASS THE BUDGET FIRST....

Seems you haven't grasped that nettle yet.

Because if PTP gets their mits on it, it's toast and all the good potential wasted.

They spent last year salvaging the economy, because PPP completely IGNORED

the coming world crisis focusing on Thaksin/TRT recovery efforts,

and the country was ill prepared when the hammer fell.

This year, finally back on track, the Dems HAVE started projects, but the budget must be passed.

PTP and Thaksin want first crack at that money to finance their election plans.

That and jigger the army and police lists back their way, making a full take over easier.

Very simple really.

I don't care who runs the country as long as they are competent

and at least have some semblance of honesty towards helping ALL the people.

I know PTP will NOT meet that criteria, and worse will dismantle good things for their profit..

So somebody has to show me the consistency between the rhetorics (Education....) and the Budget which is going to pass....

[jdinasia]

According to Thai news, Abhisit just allocated something over 200 million Baht to police to better deal with the protesters. Like they have done anything for their money so far? I wonder how many Benz's that will buy. Or BMW motorbikes.

If he could only allocate that much to the poor Thais, there wouldn't be so many red shirts on the streets, I'm sure.

Right...

LOL --- I guess that the Reds have missed the Free healthcare (that is actually funded better than the crap job Thaksin did on the 30 baht scheme). They also seem to have missed governent funded education (15 years) that reduce the cost to attend school to nothing. The debt relief for farmers many of whom added debt under Thaksin's failed loan scheme (that required farmers to be loyal for continued debt relief.)

hel_l --- who needs facts when there is the red party line to quote!

[jcbangkok]

Many people here have made the mistaken assumption that because Abhisit is currently clashing with this PTP/UDD/Red Shirt machine that he is pro yellow faction, and that just isn't the case

What was the reason he appointed Kasit his Foreign Minister, then? Not to mention Abhisit's father is on the board of directors of one of the companies who gave the most money to the yellow PAD.

Exactly! why, why, why? to suggest he is not yellow is an absurdity that not even the most ardent yellow fellows can defend.

Not to mention that he has welcomed pink and "multi-colored" demonstrations, even though they're clearly forbidden under the current state of emergency. Clearly, whether the law applies or not depends on the color of the shirt you're wearing.

actually the rule applies to groups of 5 w/bad intentions

[jcbangkok]

Jerry the don't want to fold the government now,

because the WANT TO PASS THE BUDGET FIRST....

Seems you haven't grasped that nettle yet.

Because if PTP gets their mits on it, it's toast and all the good potential wasted.

They spent last year salvaging the economy, because PPP completely IGNORED

the coming world crisis focusing on Thaksin/TRT recovery efforts,

and the country was ill prepared when the hammer fell.

This year, finally back on track, the Dems HAVE started projects, but the budget must be passed.

PTP and Thaksin want first crack at that money to finance their election plans.

That and jigger the army and police lists back their way, making a full take over easier.

Very simple really.

I don't care who runs the country as long as they are competent

and at least have some semblance of honesty towards helping ALL the people.

I know PTP will NOT meet that criteria, and worse will dismantle good things for their profit..

You realize that the "budget" they're trying to pass isn't a budget to help the poor people, but to give more funds to the army, right?

GOOD, first things first .. Thailand needs a stronger military to swiftly deal with these red terrorists and the havoc they cause on to the country and its people who overwhelmingly condemn the lawless red mob and their terrorist actions.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Transparency of the Budget: Anti Corruption tool:

Show me the budget in mass and percentage.... You talk, talk ... no credibility only if action (budget) is consistent with your speech. We want to see how you plan to spend the money: this year and following years, and evolution from previous governments.

Demonstrate that there is no clientele policy, no hidden subsidises....

please show us.....

Edited May 2, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[Jerrytheyoung]

GOOD, first things first .. Thailand needs a stronger military to swiftly deal with these red terrorists and the havoc they cause on to the country and its people who overwhelmingly condemn the lawless red mob and their terrorist actions.

Yes, it is interesting to see this Budget: how many submarines are required for controlling the Red Mob?

[Jerrytheyoung]

So, to re-cap.

Is Thailand closer, or further away from a civil war, now that Abhisit has declared his latest strategy?

just a politician gesticulation to look good in front of Japanese medias (Remember one Japanese Journalist killed the 10 April).

Nothing new under the Thai politician sky.

Edited May 2, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[dhrobertson]

http://www.emergingmarkets.org/article.asp...mp;LS=EMS390139

worth a read / snigger!

[toptuan]

GOOD, first things first .. Thailand needs a stronger military to swiftly deal with these red terrorists and the havoc they cause on to the country and its people who overwhelmingly condemn the lawless red mob and their terrorist actions.

Yes, it is interesting to see this Budget: how many submarines are required for controlling the Red Mob?

And to line the pockets of the 1,000+ military generals for this little country. (By comparison, the USA has 661 generals for a country of 300 million).

[473geo]

According to Thai news, Abhisit just allocated something over 200 million Baht to police to better deal with the protesters. Like they have done anything for their money so far? I wonder how many Benz's that will buy. Or BMW motorbikes.

If he could only allocate that much to the poor Thais, there wouldn't be so many red shirts on the streets, I'm sure.

Right...

LOL --- I guess that the Reds have missed the Free healthcare (that is actually funded better than the crap job Thaksin did on the 30 baht scheme). They also seem to have missed governent funded education (15 years) that reduce the cost to attend school to nothing. The debt relief for farmers many of whom added debt under Thaksin's failed loan scheme (that required farmers to be loyal for continued debt relief.)

hel_l --- who needs facts when there is the red party line to quote!

2001 - Universal healthcare scheme known as the 30 baht scheme was introduced

2006 - Coup - The then Public Health Minister, Mongkol Na Songkhla, abolished the 30 baht co-payment and made the UC scheme free.

It is not yet clear whether the scheme will be modified further under the coalition government that came to power in January 2008

Just a little fact from wiki

Edited May 2, 2010 by 473geo