Bangkok: Red-Shirts Slam Chulalongkorn Hospital For Evacuating Patients

[Humungus]

As usual a day with tough talk and no action. Just let the reds do what they want while the police stand around with thumbs firmly inserted.

[TAWP]

The world understands a government trying to disperse a mob of insurgents. The world does not understand an attack on a hospital, except as pure evil.

so let me get this right,,your calling all those thousands of ppl (some died and hundreds got injured) who "defended" their rally site on april 10th as insurgents????

If a burglar breaks into your house, sits down on a sofa and watches your a for a while, would you accept his defense that he is merely defending himself and that you are the evil one when you are next trying to throw him out?

[TAWP]

THE NATION: Arisman told redshirts: "We'll again have a chance to flex our muscles."

I do not condone violence, but I wish somebody would bitchslap this guy in public, with a hundred people watching and laughing.

A good pistol whipping would be even better.

A good cook-to-face-slapping might be more up his alley.

(I meant the Monty Python one, you dirty mind you!)

[TAWP]

If the army is refusing to take over from police then the next move is a coupe which will certainly put the country on the verge of a civil war because both the reds, yellows and every color will band together against the army in hope of international intervention.

How do you figure that jc? The Yellows have been begging the gov't to declare martial law. The multi-colours will are yellows in another shirt. Only the reds will be against a coup. Do you remember the flowers and general feeling of relief when they got rid of Thaksin?

For my mind, a coup and a military gov't to oversee elections and constitutional reform may be the only answer. That'd be a REPEAT of what happened after 2006, only this time they need to:

- disband ALL parties - Pheua Thai, Democrat, etc etc

- repeal what's left of the 5-year ban on politicians from TRT dissolution (its nearly been 5 years anyway)

- arrest and imprison both Yellow and Red lawbreakers without any trial

- fire all police commanders who failed to do their duty over the last 7 weeks

- hunt down all rogue soldiers and stolen war weapons

- and finally set off a loud alarm clock to wake me up from such idealistic dreaming

Actually, I kinda support this suggestion...

Another thing: Any political party that wants to register themselves should apply a brief summary of their political platform together with the papers, and have a full 'shadow government' document (budget, plans, ideas) ready for distribution on demand.

[jackr]

The world understands a government trying to disperse a mob of insurgents. The world does not understand an attack on a hospital, except as pure evil.

so let me get this right,,your calling all those thousands of ppl (some died and hundreds got injured) who "defended" their rally site on april 10th as insurgents????

If a burglar breaks into your house, sits down on a sofa and watches your a for a while, would you accept his defense that he is merely defending himself and that you are the evil one when you are next trying to throw him out?

Man, don't bother. You're attempting to impart logic and reason on folk that don't know shit from Shinola... ie, you can't educate pork.

[tharae]

I really have the utmost respect for the PM and think he is an honest and very fair man as politicians go but for whatever reason ... they are simply not moving on these guys when they have an opportunity to enforce the law. Time after time they send the police in to do a job, such as clearing the path to the hospital, and instead of the police issuing demand and warnings they go into negotiations with wanted criminals. The result is the reds give just enough to turn the heat off and possibly make the gov't look heavy handed if they do anything to enforce the law.

The Reds have pulled back but not to where the PM and hospital has demanded they move to allow the hospital to safely care for patients. They order them to take down the barricade and the open one lane ... it goes on and on and all this does is give the reds an excuse to say they were working with police and had moved when the big bad army attacked us.

"The Ox is slow, but the earth is patient" Ahbisit is winning the propaganda war. The Reds are becoming increasingly marginalised and irrelevant with the broader community. The risk is that they will become more unpredictable as they unravel. Fascinating.

Edited May 2, 2010 by tharae

[lannarebirth]

The world understands a government trying to disperse a mob of insurgents. The world does not understand an attack on a hospital, except as pure evil.

so let me get this right,,your calling all those thousands of ppl (some died and hundreds got injured) who "defended" their rally site on april 10th as insurgents????

If a burglar breaks into your house, sits down on a sofa and watches your a for a while, would you accept his defense that he is merely defending himself and that you are the evil one when you are next trying to throw him out?

What you need is a mediator.

[Redsunset]

What is the story with DAVID PURCELL, this Aussie ex-military man who is making speeches about how the government sucks and supporting the reds shirts? This, my friends, gives Australians a very very bad name!!!

So much for Americans being disgraceful.... this Aussie makes Americans look like God's gift to mankind! Man some Aussies are weird.

Surely you have met his ilk in bars in Thailand

Indeed. One of the principle reasons I have long stayed out of them and drink at home.

Dobad... indeed... they are all over the place... just a HUGE chip on their shoulders.

[Redsunset]

As usual a day with tough talk and no action. Just let the reds do what they want while the police stand around with thumbs firmly inserted.

Humungus, everytime I hear Abhisit on TV, he repeats the same old song... "We are going to get tough on the protesters... just be patient.... it is the same old record playing over and over again.... pure nonsense from a man who calls himself a Prime Minister.

Trash talk, really.

[Redsunset]

What is the story with DAVID PURCELL, this Aussie ex-military man who is making speeches about how the government sucks and supporting the reds shirts? This, my friends, gives Australians a very very bad name!!!

So much for Americans being disgraceful.... this Aussie makes Americans look like God's gift to mankind! Man some Aussies are weird.

backpacker-turned-sexpat-down-on-his-luck-trying to make a name for himself. He'll be writing a book about when he gets out of prison, will be a minor celebrity, probaby appearing on some reality TV show in 2011, and hope to god he doesn't make a pop song so we can all forget he existed in a short a time as possible.

Some people are an embarrassment to Existence.

Pure idiocy. Just a loser with nothing going for him, who needs attention. Probably can't hold down a job because he is an irresponsible, lazy moron.

[Humungus]

As usual a day with tough talk and no action. Just let the reds do what they want while the police stand around with thumbs firmly inserted.

Humungus, everytime I hear Abhisit on TV, he repeats the same old song... "We are going to get tough on the protesters... just be patient.... it is the same old record playing over and over again.... pure nonsense from a man who calls himself a Prime Minister.

Trash talk, really.

Yep, the PM and red shirt leaders are good at talking to reporters and supporters but not to each other, and neither side are coming up with useful ways of ending the stalemate.

[dobadoy]

If the army is refusing to take over from police then the next move is a coupe which will certainly put the country on the verge of a civil war because both the reds, yellows and every color will band together against the army in hope of international intervention.

How do you figure that jc? The Yellows have been begging the gov't to declare martial law. The multi-colours will are yellows in another shirt. Only the reds will be against a coup. Do you remember the flowers and general feeling of relief when they got rid of Thaksin?

For my mind, a coup and a military gov't to oversee elections and constitutional reform may be the only answer. That'd be a REPEAT of what happened after 2006, only this time they need to:

- disband ALL parties - Pheua Thai, Democrat, etc etc

- repeal what's left of the 5-year ban on politicians from TRT dissolution (its nearly been 5 years anyway)

- arrest and imprison both Yellow and Red lawbreakers without any trial

- fire all police commanders who failed to do their duty over the last 7 weeks

- hunt down all rogue soldiers and stolen war weapons

- and finally set off a loud alarm clock to wake me up from such idealistic dreaming

Actually, I kinda support this suggestion...

Another thing: Any political party that wants to register themselves should apply a brief summary of their political platform together with the papers, and have a full 'shadow government' document (budget, plans, ideas) ready for distribution on demand.

Yep, you second-guessed the edit I was too late to make. I wanted to add:

no party should be allowed to register without a full manifesto setting out practical and specific policies (not vague ideological platitutdes like UDD's 6 principles - I mean 'we will do this....we will do that... we will pay for it like this... it will have these benefits... etc).

[animatic]

I really have the utmost respect for the PM and think he is an honest and very fair man as politicians go but for whatever reason ... they are simply not moving on these guys when they have an opportunity to enforce the law. Time after time they send the police in to do a job, such as clearing the path to the hospital, and instead of the police issuing demand and warnings they go into negotiations with wanted criminals. The result is the reds give just enough to turn the heat off and possibly make the gov't look heavy handed if they do anything to enforce the law.

The Reds have pulled back but not to where the PM and hospital has demanded they move to allow the hospital to safely care for patients. They order them to take down the barricade and the open one lane ... it goes on and on and all this does is give the reds an excuse to say they were working with police and had moved when the big bad army attacked us.

"The Ox is slow, but the earth is patient" Ahbisit is winning the propaganda war. The Reds are becoming increasingly marginalised and irrelevant with the broader community. The risk is that they will become more unpredictable as they unravel. Fascinating.

I agree, it is a very Confucian way to deal with all this.

Behold the relevance of Confucian thought in the age of Internet.

Interesting for sure.

Correct about the unraveling too, the remainders of the red crowd are clearly the least stable,

and most prone to LIKING violence... and likely the most highly indoctrinated...

What or where will their short wired minds veer off to, when Veera et al are not an 'controlling influence'.

[jdinasia]

The world understands a government trying to disperse a mob of insurgents. The world does not understand an attack on a hospital, except as pure evil.

so let me get this right,,your calling all those thousands of ppl (some died and hundreds got injured) who "defended" their rally site on april 10th as insurgents????

If a burglar breaks into your house, sits down on a sofa and watches your a for a while, would you accept his defense that he is merely defending himself and that you are the evil one when you are next trying to throw him out?

What you need is a mediator.

LOL

That's right, forget about the rule of law entirely!

[kissdani]

so let me get this right,,your calling all those thousands of ppl (some died and hundreds got injured) who "defended" their rally site on april 10th as insurgents????

If a burglar breaks into your house, sits down on a sofa and watches your a for a while, would you accept his defense that he is merely defending himself and that you are the evil one when you are next trying to throw him out?

What you need is a mediator.

LOL

That's right, forget about the rule of law entirely!

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

[dobadoy]

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

There is a precedent in British law that allows the police to kill rioting protesters who do not disperse after all other means have been tried.

[thaibai]

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

The redshirts have weapons and they want to use them.

Are you saying they can block the streets how many years they want?

Ofc people will get injured or die if you try to remove an angry

assault weapon armed mob.

The day after, more than 100 people died caused by songkran celebration.

I say it is a bigger crime to completely ignore the

Songkran mass-casualties every year.

100 regular Thaicitizens lives are more important than 9 redshirt hooligans lives.

Edited May 2, 2010 by thaibai

[way2muchcoffee]

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

You mean the day peaceful protesters took up arms against their government, military, and police? You mean the day peaceful protesters killed 5 soldiers, several civilians, and assassinated military officers?

You are mistaken. This is the day the red shirts lost all legitimacy.

Edited May 2, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[jdinasia]

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

There is a precedent in British law that allows the police to kill rioting protesters who do not disperse after all other means have been tried.

Hmmm returning fire seems to be all the law that you need. The reds attacked 1st Reg (with weapons) and Thaicom (with weapons). We have seen the videos of the time when people died. Sae Daeng's HEAVILY armed "Ronin" militia amongst the reds. We have heard Sae daeng's admissions ... etc etc.

At some point a lawless ARMED mob that is in defiance of a STate of Emergency decree becomme the ONLY people responsible for the deaths that ensue.

Edited May 2, 2010 by jdinasia

[dutchweller]

I just came back from 4 days Up country with Th GF family...

Last time we talked to the family they were all Staunch Reds now.....

They had nothing nice to say about what is happening in BKK they all complained the Red leaders were now only continuing for there own profits not for the Little people..

My GF mother mentioned many of her friends Sons and Daughter had returned home from BKK because they had now lost there jobs in Bkk Because of the Red Anarchy..Alot of Angry Mothers with Unemployed Sons and Daughters now..

On the outer had I was talking to the farmers next door who were all having a bit of a party as they had all returned from BKK

They were Quite excited as they explained they had all made a large sum of money while "Playing with the reds" as one put it.

He explained to me that if you registered and got yourself a Red supporter ID card at dinner time every day you could pick up your "Special Rice" that had a small plastic bag with your days "WAGE" in it.

He told me that in the 15 days he had been "playing" he had made close to 20 000 b.

I asked him why he had come back He smiled at me and said "I dont want to die A Red shirt and I need to start planting my rice next week"..

And they all Laughed and said dont worry all the Rice farmers will go home soon from BKK because The rice planting season starts in the next few weeks...and that is more important than Thaksin and his Money...

I even got teased because I had a Red Shirt on the day we caught the bus back to BKK.

My GFs brother ( A police officer ) rushed to market store to buy me a Blue shirt and made me take off the red shirt and throw it in the rubbish......it was Quite a spectacle at the bus station as he was still in police uniform..

Anyhow thats my observations from a trip out of Bkk make of it what you will..

:D

[kissdani]

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

There is a precedent in British law that allows the police to kill rioting protesters who do not disperse after all other means have been tried.

What law? Do you have a quote or can link to a source?

[kissdani]

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

There is a precedent in British law that allows the police to kill rioting protesters who do not disperse after all other means have been tried.

Hmmm returning fire seems to be all the law that you need. The reds attacked 1st Reg (with weapons) and Thaicom (with weapons). We have seen the videos of the time when people died. Sae Daeng's HEAVILY armed "Ronin" militia amongst the reds. We have heard Sae daeng's admissions ... etc etc.

At some point a lawless ARMED mob that is in defiance of a STate of Emergency decree becomme the ONLY people responsible for the deaths that ensue.

- Thai government warned of international legal action

against killing of the civilians -

Bangkok: The Asian Centre for Human Rights, a NGO having Special Consultative Status with the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) warned against impending human rights catastrophe against the Red Shirts demonstrators in Bangkok, Thailand and condemned the violations of the right to life of the Red Shirt protestors and absolute denial of the freedom of expression by the Government of Thailand through banning and/or blocking of all the television stations, radio stations and the internet sites allegedly closed to the opposition political parties.

The evidence including video records of the events on 10 April 2010 presented to the ACHR establish beyond any reasonable doubt that the Thai security forces used disproportionate force that resulted in the violation of the right to life of a large number of civilians and injury of about 800 protestors.

Principle 9 of the United Nations Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials clearly states that “Law enforcement officials shall not use firearms against persons except in self-defence or defence of others against the imminent threat of death or serious injury, to prevent the perpetration of a particularly serious crime involving grave threat to life, to arrest a person presenting such a danger and resisting their authority, or to prevent his or her escape, and only when less extreme means are insufficient to achieve these objectives. In any event, intentional lethal use of firearms may only be made when strictly unavoidable in order to protect life”.

“It is clear from the evidence submitted to the ACHR by the opposition political parties that the firings by the security forces have not been ‘in self-defence or defence of others against the imminent threat of death or serious injury’ but premeditated and willful acts of killings.”- stated Mr Suhas Chakma, Director of Asian Centre for Human Rights.

...

continue here:

http://www.achrweb.org/press/2010/THAI01-2010.html

[rixalex]

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

When you attack armed forces you are going to get a reaction. Naive to think otherwise.

[kissdani]

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

When you attack armed forces you are going to get a reaction. Naive to think otherwise.

Why you send armed forces against protesters? Naive to think this was the right think to do.

It isn't the job of the Thai army to fight against Thai people who just rally against the current government.

[dobadoy]

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

There is a precedent in British law that allows the police to kill rioting protesters who do not disperse after all other means have been tried.

Hmmm returning fire seems to be all the law that you need. The reds attacked 1st Reg (with weapons) and Thaicom (with weapons). We have seen the videos of the time when people died. Sae Daeng's HEAVILY armed "Ronin" militia amongst the reds. We have heard Sae daeng's admissions ... etc etc.

At some point a lawless ARMED mob that is in defiance of a STate of Emergency decree becomme the ONLY people responsible for the deaths that ensue.

- Thai government warned of international legal action

against killing of the civilians -

Bangkok: The Asian Centre for Human Rights, a NGO having Special Consultative Status with the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) warned against impending human rights catastrophe against the Red Shirts demonstrators in Bangkok, Thailand and condemned the violations of the right to life of the Red Shirt protestors and absolute denial of the freedom of expression by the Government of Thailand through banning and/or blocking of all the television stations, radio stations and the internet sites allegedly closed to the opposition political parties.

The evidence including video records of the events on 10 April 2010 presented to the ACHR establish beyond any reasonable doubt that the Thai security forces used disproportionate force that resulted in the violation of the right to life of a large number of civilians and injury of about 800 protestors.

Principle 9 of the United Nations Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials clearly states that "Law enforcement officials shall not use firearms against persons except in self-defence or defence of others against the imminent threat of death or serious injury, to prevent the perpetration of a particularly serious crime involving grave threat to life, to arrest a person presenting such a danger and resisting their authority, or to prevent his or her escape, and only when less extreme means are insufficient to achieve these objectives. In any event, intentional lethal use of firearms may only be made when strictly unavoidable in order to protect life".

"It is clear from the evidence submitted to the ACHR by the opposition political parties that the firings by the security forces have not been 'in self-defence or defence of others against the imminent threat of death or serious injury' but premeditated and willful acts of killings."- stated Mr Suhas Chakma, Director of Asian Centre for Human Rights.

...

continue here:

http://www.achrweb.org/press/2010/THAI01-2010.html

Both the language and the content of that report suggest it is hardly objective or neutral. Just one quote should suffice, Mr Chakma's conclusions are based entirely on

"the evidence submitted to the ACHR by the opposition political parties"

What kind of impartial observer bases their conclusions on something like that? Not a very impartial one.

And since when do NGOs use legalese like "establishes beyond any reasonable doubt" - a juristic term to be decided by a jury in court after a full trial, not some half-baked NGO sitting in their office watching UDD doctored videos.

Edited May 2, 2010 by cdnvic
removed formatting - please do not modify others' quotes

[AleG]

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

When you attack armed forces you are going to get a reaction. Naive to think otherwise.

Why you send armed forces against protesters? Naive to think this was the right think to do.

It isn't the job of the Thai army to fight against Thai people who just rally against the current government.

The officer in command of the operation was blown up with a grenade, how much more provocation is needed before the soldiers start firing in self defense?

The blood from April 10th is in the "third hand", black shirts, ronin warriors or whatever other name you want to use. They went there with the purpose of killing people, Colonel Romklao commanding post was targeted by a laser before the grenade hit, it was premeditated murder.

Of course the firing in self defense was a complete cock-up (predicably in this parts), but I doubt that the army would have started the shooting with live ammo if unprovoked like that.

[Jingthing]

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

When you attack armed forces you are going to get a reaction. Naive to think otherwise.

Why you send armed forces against protesters? Naive to think this was the right think to do.

It isn't the job of the Thai army to fight against Thai people who just rally against the current government.

The red shirt insurgent occupation of Bangkok is a rally, eh? That's funny. Kind of like saying the Nazis were a mah jong society.

[thepodest]

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

When you attack armed forces you are going to get a reaction. Naive to think otherwise.

Why you send armed forces against protesters? Naive to think this was the right think to do.

It isn't the job of the Thai army to fight against Thai people who just rally against the current government.

What should we send in then??? Police with sticks and stones??

These people need to know that they can defend themselves. These people need to know that if they are fired upon, they can fire back.

This is how it works around the world. In every "democratic" countries.

[elcent]

I just came back from 4 days Up country with Th GF family...

Last time we talked to the family they were all Staunch Reds now.....

They had nothing nice to say about what is happening in BKK they all complained the Red leaders were now only continuing for there own profits not for the Little people..

My GF mother mentioned many of her friends Sons and Daughter had returned home from BKK because they had now lost there jobs in Bkk Because of the Red Anarchy..Alot of Angry Mothers with Unemployed Sons and Daughters now..

On the outer had I was talking to the farmers next door who were all having a bit of a party as they had all returned from BKK

They were Quite excited as they explained they had all made a large sum of money while "Playing with the reds" as one put it.

He explained to me that if you registered and got yourself a Red supporter ID card at dinner time every day you could pick up your "Special Rice" that had a small plastic bag with your days "WAGE" in it.

He told me that in the 15 days he had been "playing" he had made close to 20 000 b.

I asked him why he had come back He smiled at me and said "I dont want to die A Red shirt and I need to start planting my rice next week"..

And they all Laughed and said dont worry all the Rice farmers will go home soon from BKK because The rice planting season starts in the next few weeks...and that is more important than Thaksin and his Money...

I even got teased because I had a Red Shirt on the day we caught the bus back to BKK.

My GFs brother ( A police officer ) rushed to market store to buy me a Blue shirt and made me take off the red shirt and throw it in the rubbish......it was Quite a spectacle at the bus station as he was still in police uniform..

Anyhow thats my observations from a trip out of Bkk make of it what you will..

:D

nice, thanks.

This is the way I know these kind of people here too. And this is also the reason why there will be no civil war. If some of the reds try the will get culled by those who supported them before.

That what you see here now (the majority) in Bangkok are the ones with nowhere to go and some from the local crime gangs looking for excitement.

[kissdani]

There is no law that justified the massacre of 10. april.

And it is the day where Abhisit and Suthep lost their legitimacy to lead the country.

When you attack armed forces you are going to get a reaction. Naive to think otherwise.

Why you send armed forces against protesters? Naive to think this was the right think to do.

It isn't the job of the Thai army to fight against Thai people who just rally against the current government.

The red shirt insurgent occupation of Bangkok is a rally, eh? That's funny. Kind of like saying the Nazis were a mah jong society.

You are the opposite of funny.

"red shirt insurgent occupation of Bangkok"? Who told you that, even the government doesn't use such words.

Unlike you, Falang USA, the Reds are are Thai people and you should learn to accept that Thai people "occupy" Thailand.

Wasn't it Eichmann who said it in his defense that it was all legitimate and he act according to the law? Eichmann was a Nazi.