Millions Of Thais Lack Welfare Coverage

[buddy]

" More than half of all workers are at risk of occupational hazards, with about 2.9 million injured or sick annually, the minister said".

2.9 Million injured or sick will be more than an underplay of the real figures, the real cost to the economy and suffering of families cant be calculated in terms of human suffering.

In my other life when I worked for a Western Multi-National Engineering Company in a specialist field in Thailand, I actually had to develop and deliver Technical training from scratch to our own technicians and Clients Technicians alike, as the Technical & Health & Safety standards were so low due to the fact that there was (and amazingly) still is no vocational training schools in this field in the whole of Thailand.

This specialist field is essencial to any Countrys existance and maintenance to the quality of life in the modern world, and is essential to food production and preservation, medicines, manufacturing etc

The reason I am stating this is that i investigated through a Millionaire Bangkok business figure with his political contacts wether it would be a viable proposition to set up a vocational training school for Technicians in this field, however it would require Government support for Technicians and apprentices as they could not afford the tuition fee's over a 4 year period...the answer not interested!

Maybe I knocked on the wrong doors but I would still be interested in setting up a vocational training school even now.

Part of the training included strong Health & Safety, so no vocational training in Thailand, the undertakers and hospitals keep busy.

[fvw53]

Hi Redsunset

You wrote

QUOTE

Except France is a de facto communist country.

UNQUOTE

I am not a Frenchman but I object to your stupid 'Sarah Palin' opinion.

The French pay indeed high taxes but they do not have to worry about a pension for their old days, about health insurance, about student loans, they have also paid holidays ....

How many people in the USA would prefer to be free of the stress to get all this by paying "French" taxes?

If this is "communism" then for most people it is better than the "American dream" where pensions can be misused by private funds and where health care is decided by private insurance companies paying "death panels" to exclude whoever they can from the coverage they paid for.

[henryalleman]

Basically, full health care costs a hel_l of a lot of money. It is not something that the Thai government (any, not just this one) can bring in without a lot of planning and new taxes.

Even then, there will be a line drawn, where some treatments will still need to be paid by the patient and would not be covered by the government. At the moment, with "free" health care, that line is VERY low.

i think that within the next 20-50 years in countrys with universal health care such as britian and france will have to start drawing the lines lower as costs spiral. I expect that new provision rules equating quality of life delivered and length of time provided versus cost will be implemented meaning many hugely expensive cancer treatments where only a few more months in a decrebid and sick state and such will nolonger be available; i also expect peoples own life style choices maybe to effect the treatment they are entitled to for free, for example smokers having to pay for their own cancer treatments or obsese for diabeties.

I don't think so, the percentages of the BNP of this countries is much lower than the privatised healthcare in the states. So in short. The coverage of an National healthcare is much better and for a much lower price than for instance the US.

Just look the figures in a previous posting.

[Jerrytheyoung]

" More than half of all workers are at risk of occupational hazards, with about 2.9 million injured or sick annually, the minister said".

2.9 Million injured or sick will be more than an underplay of the real figures, the real cost to the economy and suffering of families cant be calculated in terms of human suffering.

In my other life when I worked for a Western Multi-National Engineering Company in a specialist field in Thailand, I actually had to develop and deliver Technical training from scratch to our own technicians and Clients Technicians alike, as the Technical & Health & Safety standards were so low due to the fact that there was (and amazingly) still is no vocational training schools in this field in the whole of Thailand.

This specialist field is essencial to any Countrys existance and maintenance to the quality of life in the modern world, and is essential to food production and preservation, medicines, manufacturing etc

The reason I am stating this is that i investigated through a Millionaire Bangkok business figure with his political contacts wether it would be a viable proposition to set up a vocational training school for Technicians in this field, however it would require Government support for Technicians and apprentices as they could not afford the tuition fee's over a 4 year period...the answer not interested!

Maybe I knocked on the wrong doors but I would still be interested in setting up a vocational training school even now.

Part of the training included strong Health & Safety, so no vocational training in Thailand, the undertakers and hospitals keep busy.

i have been involved in a project for the Commission on Higher Education, it is very difficult to handle even with Thai inside support. Thai Administration is a mosaic of lobbies, you have to handle a navigation through a sea of Committees (set up under pretext of Anti Corruption, in fact serving some administration officers by getting allowances in plus their basic salaries). They are tolerating you for setting up the project, then as soon as running, they want to sideline you and take over. A lot of xenophobia in the administration, but from time to time, some very smart and nice people; a difficult navigation to set up a project.

[educationthailand]

I'm posting this here since new political threads are not allowed, and there's already been talk on this thread of education.

An Open Letter to All Thai People-

The Change that Thailand Really Needs – A Complete Overhaul of the Education System

First off, why should you listen to the opinion of a foreigner about the change Thailand really needs? Because I've read books that you're not allowed to read, I've seen documentaries that you're not allowed to see, and possibly most importantly, I've openly discussed and debated certain issues that you're not allowed to talk about. I've lived and worked in Thailand for a number of years, and I've even stayed at a temple and studied Buddhism like most of you have. Then again, this is just one person's opinion – it's just as important or not as important as yours is.

A quick read through Thailand's political history shows that your country has suffered more than two dozens coups and been close to civil war many times in the past. The current political crisis is no different – two groups of rich elites fighting for power. Will a change in government really solve the problems you face everyday? Will having a different set of rich elites in power really improve your life?

Thaksin gave you free health care, Abhisit gave you free education. Thaksin was the first so you support him and reject the current government as elitist. But Thailand will always be controlled by the rich elite no matter which color of shirt is currently in style. This is because there will always be inequality in a capitalist society. Some jobs require more education and more skills than others. Some people are just starting their careers and others are ready to retire after decades of experience. Some people work harder than others. The rich elite will always control a country because they will always have better access to education and always have more money. In some countries it is more obvious than others, but the end result is that you always have been and will always be ruled by the elite class. Even in my country where the uneducated and unskilled now can obtain jobs with decent salaries and benefits, that 'lower class' still does not run the country.

So if all future governments will consist of the rich elite, what change will really improve the lives of everyday Thai people? The people in power and management positions need a complete change of attitude towards people lower than them. These rich elites use the superior-inferior, Pi-Nong, higher-lower part of Thai culture to take advantage of people lower than them. People in the 'lower position' accept this treatment as their place in the world. Any foreigner who has worked in Thailand has most likely been disgusted at the way Thai workers are treated by management. We can give you countless examples of poor treatment of workers and how workers should stand up for their rights. Think of how your local rice mafia bosses treat you. Will a change in government change that? Of course not.

I hope this attitude will slowly change as more and more Thai's study, work, and travel abroad. More Thai's are seeing the benefits of treating workers better and not accepting horrible treatment from management. More Thai's are seeing the benefits of more social programs, of questioning anything they feel like. But this change will take decades. Your director or manager who is 50 years old will never change their superior-inferior thinking towards you. But in 15, 20, 30 years, this younger generation of people who have been educated abroad and seen a different way of doing things, those people will eventually become management, and if, and only if, they are strong enough, they can change the culture and treat the common worker better. This will improve your life, changing the government will not.

How can Thailand make this change faster? Through better education. There have been recent trends of spending more money on education and recruiting better teachers through scholarships, but these efforts are not enough. The Thai education system needs a complete overhaul, from the top down. Teach students to think and problem solve instead of rote learning and never questioning. Teach students to take responsibility for their actions – that bad behaviour has consequences. Teach students that their opinion matters, even if it goes against the group. It has been the norm that someone studies education only when their GPA is so low that they have no other options. Teachers have always been poorly paid and treated badly. Start by recruiting more top graduates into education. Give them better pay and working conditions. Let them teach critical thinking and problem solving. Do away from an early age with the status-quo of using Pi-Nong to take advantage of others. And most importantly, let the students think for themselves and express their opinions. That is what needs to change to make Thailand better for all Thai people.

It is time for the red shirts, yellow shirts, multi-colored shirts, black shirts, green shirts, blue shirts, and pink shirts to stop protesting when their government of choice is not in power. These political battles have been going on for decades but your lives have only seen minor improvements. It is time for all Thai people to come together and make a change that will significantly improve the lives of all Thai people – completely overhaul your education system.

[MGiacomoCM]

An Issan story from my direct entourage;

The Father from the Family (Nong Khai village nearby Siwilai) is directed to Khon Khaeng regional hospital for investigation and treatment: there, they diagnostic a lung cancer (He is a medium smoker), told him "treatment is too much expansive', we cannot do anything for you, go home".

The family has sold the pick up in order to buy drugs for smoothing the end life of the father and also spend the money in searching a solution through parallel medicare.....

That illustrates the real problem. According to governmental papers and people living in well-off Bangkok areas this could never happen. But reality is different. Just a few weeks back Abhisit talked about women's rights in Thailand (!!!), priasing his policies and Thailand decade long good work in this area... Seems the PM is just too far away from the poor to know anything about their daily life. All his promises of free education have not reached a single member of my wife's family or friends in Issan. One doesn't have to wonder why the Reds can recruit supporters so easily, as long as millions of poor are receiving hardly anything of the promised support, while having to watch Abhisit pad his own shoulder, telling them how much he is doing for them.

[kurtgruen]

I'm posting this here since new political threads are not allowed, and there's already been talk on this thread of education.

An Open Letter to All Thai People-

The Change that Thailand Really Needs – A Complete Overhaul of the Education System

First off, why should you listen to the opinion of a foreigner about the change Thailand really needs? Because I've read books that you're not allowed to read, I've seen documentaries that you're not allowed to see, and possibly most importantly, I've openly discussed and debated certain issues that you're not allowed to talk about. I've lived and worked in Thailand for a number of years, and I've even stayed at a temple and studied Buddhism like most of you have. Then again, this is just one person's opinion – it's just as important or not as important as yours is.

A quick read through Thailand's political history shows that your country has suffered more than two dozens coups and been close to civil war many times in the past. The current political crisis is no different – two groups of rich elites fighting for power. Will a change in government really solve the problems you face everyday? Will having a different set of rich elites in power really improve your life?

Thaksin gave you free health care, Abhisit gave you free education. Thaksin was the first so you support him and reject the current government as elitist. But Thailand will always be controlled by the rich elite no matter which color of shirt is currently in style. This is because there will always be inequality in a capitalist society. Some jobs require more education and more skills than others. Some people are just starting their careers and others are ready to retire after decades of experience. Some people work harder than others. The rich elite will always control a country because they will always have better access to education and always have more money. In some countries it is more obvious than others, but the end result is that you always have been and will always be ruled by the elite class. Even in my country where the uneducated and unskilled now can obtain jobs with decent salaries and benefits, that 'lower class' still does not run the country.

So if all future governments will consist of the rich elite, what change will really improve the lives of everyday Thai people? The people in power and management positions need a complete change of attitude towards people lower than them. These rich elites use the superior-inferior, Pi-Nong, higher-lower part of Thai culture to take advantage of people lower than them. People in the 'lower position' accept this treatment as their place in the world. Any foreigner who has worked in Thailand has most likely been disgusted at the way Thai workers are treated by management. We can give you countless examples of poor treatment of workers and how workers should stand up for their rights. Think of how your local rice mafia bosses treat you. Will a change in government change that? Of course not.

I hope this attitude will slowly change as more and more Thai's study, work, and travel abroad. More Thai's are seeing the benefits of treating workers better and not accepting horrible treatment from management. More Thai's are seeing the benefits of more social programs, of questioning anything they feel like. But this change will take decades. Your director or manager who is 50 years old will never change their superior-inferior thinking towards you. But in 15, 20, 30 years, this younger generation of people who have been educated abroad and seen a different way of doing things, those people will eventually become management, and if, and only if, they are strong enough, they can change the culture and treat the common worker better. This will improve your life, changing the government will not.

How can Thailand make this change faster? Through better education. There have been recent trends of spending more money on education and recruiting better teachers through scholarships, but these efforts are not enough. The Thai education system needs a complete overhaul, from the top down. Teach students to think and problem solve instead of rote learning and never questioning. Teach students to take responsibility for their actions – that bad behaviour has consequences. Teach students that their opinion matters, even if it goes against the group. It has been the norm that someone studies education only when their GPA is so low that they have no other options. Teachers have always been poorly paid and treated badly. Start by recruiting more top graduates into education. Give them better pay and working conditions. Let them teach critical thinking and problem solving. Do away from an early age with the status-quo of using Pi-Nong to take advantage of others. And most importantly, let the students think for themselves and express their opinions. That is what needs to change to make Thailand better for all Thai people.

It is time for the red shirts, yellow shirts, multi-colored shirts, black shirts, green shirts, blue shirts, and pink shirts to stop protesting when their government of choice is not in power. These political battles have been going on for decades but your lives have only seen minor improvements. It is time for all Thai people to come together and make a change that will significantly improve the lives of all Thai people – completely overhaul your education system.

Well said and worth repeating!

[Jerrytheyoung]

Basically, full health care costs a hel_l of a lot of money. It is not something that the Thai government (any, not just this one) can bring in without a lot of planning and new taxes.

Even then, there will be a line drawn, where some treatments will still need to be paid by the patient and would not be covered by the government. At the moment, with "free" health care, that line is VERY low.

i think that within the next 20-50 years in countrys with universal health care such as britian and france will have to start drawing the lines lower as costs spiral. I expect that new provision rules equating quality of life delivered and length of time provided versus cost will be implemented meaning many hugely expensive cancer treatments where only a few more months in a decrebid and sick state and such will nolonger be available; i also expect peoples own life style choices maybe to effect the treatment they are entitled to for free, for example smokers having to pay for their own cancer treatments or obsese for diabeties.

I don't think so, the percentages of the BNP of this countries is much lower than the privatised healthcare in the states. So in short. The coverage of an National healthcare is much better and for a much lower price than for instance the US.

Just look the figures in a previous posting.

yes, the reason being; Governments do exert pressure on the medical professionals. Salaries are far lower than US ones. An agreement (a Convention) is signed between Goverment and most of Doctors: it is a key point. So the price of a visit is limited, but fairly reimbursed by the Medicare. If you want, you can see a non-conventioned specialist but you will be reimbursed less or even not at all. Most of Doctors have to sign the Convention, if not they have no customers.

This is the reason why the costs are lower....

[MGiacomoCM]

BTW: People affected by a land tax that starts at 5 rai can hardly be called rice barons! Any family around my families house owns more or at least close to that amount of land and is still poor. So go tell those poeple, who can't even make a decent living with their 5 rai rice field, much less send their kids to a school whose English teacher's credentials aren't "having a farang boyfriend", our Oxford educated PM wants them to pay land tax now...

[Jerrytheyoung]

EDUCATION WEALTHFARE.....

To be credible all the government measures have to be supported by a line in the Budget, if not it is only rhetoric (We call that "Effet d'annonces" in France). This kind of politician manoeuvers (used and abused by all Parties once in Government) has been demasked by People who do not believe it anymore. Now we trust something when a line in the Budget is clearly going with.

So, what is the budget of this Government? How much is allocated to improve Education? How much is allocated for improving the wealthfare of poorest People? How much is allocated to modernise Agriculture? How much is allocated for developping infrastructure in Northern Country? How much is allocated for decentralising the Industry?

If it is a 5 or 10 years planning... BUDGET on those 5 or 10 years

The debate on a Budget is the main political event in a Country. This is what should be on the table if you want to prove your sincerity.... Please show me your Budget and how you modify it to take care of the demands of Northern Population: everything else is inconsistent blah-blah-blah....

BUDGET PLEASE......

Edited May 2, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[citizen33]

The earlier poster who wanted to know what his social security health entitlement covers can look here.

http://www.sso.go.th/english/faq.php?menu_...;content_id=350

Also look at some of the old threads in the insurance sub-forum.

This scheme is not as limited as another poster suggested, though in an ideal world a westerner would probably want private HI coverage as well. It is definitely worth keeping up the contributions as the SSS will cover you after age 65 even with pre-existing conditions (at which stage your private insurer is likely to show you the door). The other two Thai public scheme - the UC scheme and the Civil Servants Medical Benefit Scheme are not normally open to Westerners.

At present every amphur has a public district hospital, albeit of variable quality, and below that there is a network of local health centres. A lot of the current debate concerns what to do at the tambon and sub-tambon levels. After the 30 baht reforms in 2001, the first plan was to beef up the health centres with more qualified staff and form Primary Care Units (PCUs) from clusters of health centres. This was linked to the idea of 'glai baan, glai jai' ('close to the home, close to the heart') health care. This didn't work well because of staff shortages and problems in getting the money to flow through the district hospitals (the CUPs) to the health centres, and so other arrangements involving local medical units and sub-tambon health promotion hospitals are being tried in some areas. Some areas also have community health funds, with part of the funding for health promotion coming through local government. So the plan for the new vocational hospitals is another (experimental?) piece in the jigsaw rather than a new direction for the system.

[hammered]

Policy issues like this are only going to be solved when a government isnt distracted by other concerns. To be fair it is opne of the few achievements of the current government that it has actually enacted more policies than all governments put together since 2005 which gives an idea of the silly gamesmanship going on. Right now there are all kinds of bits of legislation that havent been passed in which th elegal time frame for them to be passed has expired. In terms of legislation there is a huge backlog and mess and a lot of it relates to issues that directly involve a few hundred thousand peopel here and there. A right mess.

A whole slew of legislation tied to 6 month time frames was completley ignored by the first government after the most recent election and the timne frame on all of those pieces expired in the course of that government without a single one being discussed. Things like this arent brought up in the hate filled simple soundbite world of the current power struggle but they affect a lot of people when you add them all up.

[MGiacomoCM]

Here's another one: My stepdaughter recently took the entrance exam to a public school with real good reputation. She's a real smart girl with a willingness to learn I hardly see here in Thailand, a straight A student. Although she was really confident of having done good, she failed. So I set out to inquire. I was neither told her score nor the score of the accepted students or how close she was from getting in. Until talking to one of the other parents. Apparently you get in not based on your test score. To have a chance you have to specify the amount of money you are willing to donate on the test papers. So much for free education. I'm paying for a private school now. But thinking about the 1000s of young girls who are not that lucky, makes me want to do more than just switching off the TV when Abhisit is talking about his free-education program...

[Jerrytheyoung]

Policy issues like this are only going to be solved when a government isnt distracted by other concerns. To be fair it is opne of the few achievements of the current government that it has actually enacted more policies than all governments put together since 2005 which gives an idea of the silly gamesmanship going on. Right now there are all kinds of bits of legislation that havent been passed in which th elegal time frame for them to be passed has expired. In terms of legislation there is a huge backlog and mess and a lot of it relates to issues that directly involve a few hundred thousand peopel here and there. A right mess.

A whole slew of legislation tied to 6 month time frames was completley ignored by the first government after the most recent election and the timne frame on all of those pieces expired in the course of that government without a single one being discussed. Things like this arent brought up in the hate filled simple soundbite world of the current power struggle but they affect a lot of people when you add them all up.

But everybody is rushing to pass the budget bill, because there.... is the money for the Politicians and the next election....All the rhetorics are only "Powder for eyes"... So let discuss seriously, BUDGET what is in your Budget?

Edited May 2, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[Sisaketmike]

Since this thread is about social security and before it descends into the usual red vs yellow nonsense I will ask a question.

I pay tax here and social security, I received a card that allows me to go to hospital, my staff tell me that at the hospital I will treated without paying any extra, somehow this does not sound correct to me, can anyone shed light on what is and what is not covered, or steer me to a page that explains this?

Thanks

When you and your employer are paying monthly an amount which is normally 5% of your salary, but mostly less that they save some money. It's a social security, and your employer has to pay the same amount.

You're only allowed to go to a government hospital, the insurance company won't pay other bills like going to a clinic, or private hospitals.

Should you pay in a few years and reach 50+ you'll be able to get money back. Even if you'd lose your job, you could go on with this insurance company to be covered. Then you'd still have a full coverage insurance for about 500 baht/month.

A motorcycle insurance for example is only covering 15,000 baht. I had an accident eight months ago and the company paid 75,000 baht for the operation and hospital.

This will also allow you to see a dentist twice a year, but they'll only pay 500 baht two times a year.

Please look at this:

SOCIAL SECURITY:

The objective of the fund is to support employees who suffer from accident, illness, disability or death, not related to work. As of 2004 all Thai Companies must register for Social Welfare tax on all employees including the foreigners who hold work permit. failure will mean loss of work permit & or fine.You must pay 5% tax on employees wages each month & 5% government fee. eg Say you earn 10,000 baht a month =5% twice. Then you have one employee on say 6000 baht & then 2 others on 5000 baht again taxed at 6% = 1560 baht to pay each month.Social Security Fund. Employers, employees and the government must contribute an equal monthly sum to the Social Security Fund at the rate of 5% on employment income. The maximum wage for computing the contribution is Bht15,000 per month. Employer and employee contributions must be remitted to the Fund by the employer within 15 days of the following month.

Here's a link:

http://www.asiatradingonline.com/taxemployees.htm

Edited May 2, 2010 by Sisaketmike

[mccw]

Here's another one: My stepdaughter recently took the entrance exam to a public school with real good reputation. She's a real smart girl with a willingness to learn I hardly see here in Thailand, a straight A student. Although she was really confident of having done good, she failed. So I set out to inquire. I was neither told her score nor the score of the accepted students or how close she was from getting in. Until talking to one of the other parents. Apparently you get in not based on your test score. To have a chance you have to specify the amount of money you are willing to donate on the test papers. So much for free education. I'm paying for a private school now. But thinking about the 1000s of young girls who are not that lucky, makes me want to do more than just switching off the TV when Abhisit is talking about his free-education program...

obviously corruption needs to be addressed at all levels; how your schools local adminis connected to abhisit free education policy i'm not sure

[thaibkk]

welfare for everybody, working or not = look at your paycheck and deduct 50% as they do in western countries from your gross salary in stead of 1o-2o% here...

anybody up for it to lose half of their wadges for ... solidarity ?

[Pakboong]

I'm posting this here since new political threads are not allowed, and there's already been talk on this thread of education.

An Open Letter to All Thai People-

The Change that Thailand Really Needs – A Complete Overhaul of the Education System

First off, why should you listen to the opinion of a foreigner about the change Thailand really needs? Because I've read books that you're not allowed to read, I've seen documentaries that you're not allowed to see, and possibly most importantly, I've openly discussed and debated certain issues that you're not allowed to talk about. I've lived and worked in Thailand for a number of years, and I've even stayed at a temple and studied Buddhism like most of you have. Then again, this is just one person's opinion – it's just as important or not as important as yours is.

A quick read through Thailand's political history shows that your country has suffered more than two dozens coups and been close to civil war many times in the past. The current political crisis is no different – two groups of rich elites fighting for power. Will a change in government really solve the problems you face everyday? Will having a different set of rich elites in power really improve your life?

Thaksin gave you free health care, Abhisit gave you free education. Thaksin was the first so you support him and reject the current government as elitist. But Thailand will always be controlled by the rich elite no matter which color of shirt is currently in style. This is because there will always be inequality in a capitalist society. Some jobs require more education and more skills than others. Some people are just starting their careers and others are ready to retire after decades of experience. Some people work harder than others. The rich elite will always control a country because they will always have better access to education and always have more money. In some countries it is more obvious than others, but the end result is that you always have been and will always be ruled by the elite class. Even in my country where the uneducated and unskilled now can obtain jobs with decent salaries and benefits, that 'lower class' still does not run the country.

So if all future governments will consist of the rich elite, what change will really improve the lives of everyday Thai people? The people in power and management positions need a complete change of attitude towards people lower than them. These rich elites use the superior-inferior, Pi-Nong, higher-lower part of Thai culture to take advantage of people lower than them. People in the 'lower position' accept this treatment as their place in the world. Any foreigner who has worked in Thailand has most likely been disgusted at the way Thai workers are treated by management. We can give you countless examples of poor treatment of workers and how workers should stand up for their rights. Think of how your local rice mafia bosses treat you. Will a change in government change that? Of course not.

I hope this attitude will slowly change as more and more Thai's study, work, and travel abroad. More Thai's are seeing the benefits of treating workers better and not accepting horrible treatment from management. More Thai's are seeing the benefits of more social programs, of questioning anything they feel like. But this change will take decades. Your director or manager who is 50 years old will never change their superior-inferior thinking towards you. But in 15, 20, 30 years, this younger generation of people who have been educated abroad and seen a different way of doing things, those people will eventually become management, and if, and only if, they are strong enough, they can change the culture and treat the common worker better. This will improve your life, changing the government will not.

How can Thailand make this change faster? Through better education. There have been recent trends of spending more money on education and recruiting better teachers through scholarships, but these efforts are not enough. The Thai education system needs a complete overhaul, from the top down. Teach students to think and problem solve instead of rote learning and never questioning. Teach students to take responsibility for their actions – that bad behaviour has consequences. Teach students that their opinion matters, even if it goes against the group. It has been the norm that someone studies education only when their GPA is so low that they have no other options. Teachers have always been poorly paid and treated badly. Start by recruiting more top graduates into education. Give them better pay and working conditions. Let them teach critical thinking and problem solving. Do away from an early age with the status-quo of using Pi-Nong to take advantage of others. And most importantly, let the students think for themselves and express their opinions. That is what needs to change to make Thailand better for all Thai people.

It is time for the red shirts, yellow shirts, multi-colored shirts, black shirts, green shirts, blue shirts, and pink shirts to stop protesting when their government of choice is not in power. These political battles have been going on for decades but your lives have only seen minor improvements. It is time for all Thai people to come together and make a change that will significantly improve the lives of all Thai people – completely overhaul your education system.

Changing potential is a tough nut to crack and one that many experts call a fool's notion.

The Elites as they are called here, can easily afford to double the minimum wage across the board. these people are rediculously wealthy. There will be fall-out but there always is. Something easy to do and will have far reaching results. The uneducable need more resources and they have no other legitimate way to get them. Keeping them in school longer serves only to drag the more capable down with them.

[Thongkorn]

Collecting Taxes would be a good thing, that is if people pay tax, maybe why the bart is so strong, because none is paid out on civil or social care for the people,

[jayjay0]

What they are saying is the same thing any government says when they want your support. Support us and look what we are going to do for you. Of course it never comes about but hey they got your vote so it must be OK.

As has has been said earlier building buildings and putting delux furnature in them helps no one except the contractors and suppliers.

[hammered]

Policy issues like this are only going to be solved when a government isnt distracted by other concerns. To be fair it is opne of the few achievements of the current government that it has actually enacted more policies than all governments put together since 2005 which gives an idea of the silly gamesmanship going on. Right now there are all kinds of bits of legislation that havent been passed in which th elegal time frame for them to be passed has expired. In terms of legislation there is a huge backlog and mess and a lot of it relates to issues that directly involve a few hundred thousand peopel here and there. A right mess.

A whole slew of legislation tied to 6 month time frames was completley ignored by the first government after the most recent election and the timne frame on all of those pieces expired in the course of that government without a single one being discussed. Things like this arent brought up in the hate filled simple soundbite world of the current power struggle but they affect a lot of people when you add them all up.

But everybody is rushing to pass the budget bill, because there.... is the money for the Politicians and the next election....All the rhetorics are only "Powder for eyes"... So let discuss seriously, BUDGET what is in your Budget?

Im not commenting on budget. I am talking about a massive backlog in legislation which is a totally different issure

[Sisaketmike]

Since this thread is about social security and before it descends into the usual red vs yellow nonsense I will ask a question.

I pay tax here and social security, I received a card that allows me to go to hospital, my staff tell me that at the hospital I will treated without paying any extra, somehow this does not sound correct to me, can anyone shed light on what is and what is not covered, or steer me to a page that explains this?

Thanks

An Issan story from my direct entourage;

The Father from the Family (Nong Khai village nearby Siwilai) is directed to Khon Khaeng regional hospital for investigation and treatment: there, they diagnostic a lung cancer (He is a medium smoker), told him "treatment is too much expansive', we cannot do anything for you, go home".

The family has sold the pick up in order to buy drugs for smoothing the end life of the father and also spend the money in searching a solution through parallel medicare.....

Sorry to hear that. But your relative should be registered; they should be able to give him the treatment at his local hospital. Places like the Chula hospital would have been a good way to go to, hope you’ll find a way to keep him alive.

[mccw]

BTW: People affected by a land tax that starts at 5 rai can hardly be called rice barons! Any family around my families house owns more or at least close to that amount of land and is still poor. So go tell those poeple, who can't even make a decent living with their 5 rai rice field, much less send their kids to a school whose English teacher's credentials aren't "having a farang boyfriend", our Oxford educated PM wants them to pay land tax now...

Rice barons I'm refering to the big money merchants who have taken over debtors lands and now use them as labour,, this is the trick the red capitalist who oppose the gov for try to tax them and use money for education, if people are educated they are less contollable/ easy to exploit.

The average small holding farm in thailand is 3 rai..... 5 rai i think is the proposed starting point but obviously it would be stagered so the more you own the more you pay so barely or just 5 rai would little to no tax.

If people live by the sufficiency ecomony they can have all they need to eat and stay alive from 3 rai only; better than only grow rice for money and follow politician dream of riches.

Like i heard some one speak in the village yesterday say "why our parrents and grandparents can live in peace and happy life?; thailand is rich land and can find down plenty food around, so long we peaceful no real worry like another country kill each other and worry for your life everyday" .........

just because u support the rights of the poor does not mean you have to b a red shirt. red leader and poliician are quite blatantly just using them and couldnt give a monkeys.

All north and issaaan have been red controlled for past 15+ years, they money from central gov to develop but are lagging so far behind in some places, people complain its the corruption, so the very people they should b upset with are now the ones they hope to leadthem to prosperrity! crazy. let the dems have a go and vote them out in a couple of years if no progress; couple years int gunna kill any one, maurading thuggerry and genade attacts will

[noahvail]

Since this thread is about social security and before it descends into the usual red vs yellow nonsense I will ask a question.

I pay tax here and social security, I received a card that allows me to go to hospital, my staff tell me that at the hospital I will treated without paying any extra, somehow this does not sound correct to me, can anyone shed light on what is and what is not covered, or steer me to a page that explains this?

Thanks

My situation is not the same as yours, but has some similarities, so perhaps it is not off topic.

I'm on a retirement extension, not working or paying into the system. As soon as I got my yellow Tambien Baan book (states that I am listed as a resident in a particular house), I was given access to the government hospitals - under the same plan as the Thai members of the community.

The 30-baht plan has been reduced to the 0-baht plan for simple emergency or hospital clinic functions. Dentistry costs are greatly reduced: I had two extractions and a 4-tooth plate made for 1,600 baht. I see a few specialists; one I see each month for between one and one-and-a-half hours; this costs me 50 baht.

My town has a PCU and a small hospital, which is more like a large clinic with some limited surgical features. But I go into the next province for treatment whenever practicable, and pay the same (or no) rates. There I'm seen at a teaching hospital, by professors from the University - at less than 10% of what I would be charged for their services at the private hospital.

Frankly, I feel embarrassed to be charged so little. There are always money trees around for the benefit of those who cannot afford the 50 baht for a specialist or 300 baht for meds; I always contribute to those, often several at each visit.

But that brings up another difficulty with the medical schemes here: the cost of medicines is often way out of the reach of the rural poor. My own meds are many and varied, and are downright expensive. But I go across the road from the hospital to a private pharmacy and save between 15 and 30% of the cost at the hospital. The pharmacists at the hospital will often tell their patients which pharmacy to go to for their particular meds, in order to save the most money.

With respect to meds, my opinion is that the ones manufactured in Thailand under license are the same quality as their branded meds in the west. However, those made in other countries...I'm sure you can surmise some of them...do not always have the quality control that Thailand does. I can generally tell within a couple of days if a "generic" med isn't correct; and I'll replace it with a more expensive branded one. (After 16 years of meds, you learn to listen to your body quickly and carefully.)

So in a word, yes, the medical schemes are available to foreigners under certain conditions. Yours appears to be one of them.

[lannarebirth]

Changing potential is a tough nut to crack and one that many experts call a fool's notion.

The Elites as they are called here, can easily afford to double the minimum wage across the board. these people are rediculously wealthy. There will be fall-out but there always is. Something easy to do and will have far reaching results. The uneducable need more resources and they have no other legitimate way to get them. Keeping them in school longer serves only to drag the more capable down with them.

This single policy could affect more people, more quickly that just about any other, including education. Minimum wages raised say 25%/yr for the next 4 years would be a great thing for Thailand and clear out a lot more people loafing around unproductive farms. Kick the taxi rates up at the same rate too.

[silk]

An Issan story from my direct entourage;

The Father from the Family (Nong Khai village nearby Siwilai) is directed to Khon Khaeng regional hospital for investigation and treatment: there, they diagnostic a lung cancer (He is a medium smoker), told him "treatment is too much expansive', we cannot do anything for you, go home".

The family has sold the pick up in order to buy drugs for smoothing the end life of the father and also spend the money in searching a solution through parallel medicare.....

That illustrates the real problem. According to governmental papers and people living in well-off Bangkok areas this could never happen. But reality is different. Just a few weeks back Abhisit talked about women's rights in Thailand (!!!), priasing his policies and Thailand decade long good work in this area... Seems the PM is just too far away from the poor to know anything about their daily life. All his promises of free education have not reached a single member of my wife's family or friends in Issan. One doesn't have to wonder why the Reds can recruit supporters so easily, as long as millions of poor are receiving hardly anything of the promised support, while having to watch Abhisit pad his own shoulder, telling them how much he is doing for them.

Your Issan family and friends might have to switch the tv channel from soap opera to the news. In addition there are educational programs on tv.

[lannarebirth]

BTW: People affected by a land tax that starts at 5 rai can hardly be called rice barons! Any family around my families house owns more or at least close to that amount of land and is still poor. So go tell those poeple, who can't even make a decent living with their 5 rai rice field, much less send their kids to a school whose English teacher's credentials aren't "having a farang boyfriend", our Oxford educated PM wants them to pay land tax now...

Rice barons I'm refering to the big money merchants who have taken over debtors lands and now use them as labour,, this is the trick the red capitalist who oppose the gov for try to tax them and use money for education, if people are educated they are less contollable/ easy to exploit.

The average small holding farm in thailand is 3 rai..... 5 rai i think is the proposed starting point but obviously it would be stagered so the more you own the more you pay so barely or just 5 rai would little to no tax.

If people live by the sufficiency ecomony they can have all they need to eat and stay alive from 3 rai only; better than only grow rice for money and follow politician dream of riches.

Like i heard some one speak in the village yesterday say "why our parrents and grandparents can live in peace and happy life?; thailand is rich land and can find down plenty food around, so long we peaceful no real worry like another country kill each other and worry for your life everyday" .........

just because u support the rights of the poor does not mean you have to b a red shirt. red leader and poliician are quite blatantly just using them and couldnt give a monkeys.

All north and issaaan have been red controlled for past 15+ years, they money from central gov to develop but are lagging so far behind in some places, people complain its the corruption, so the very people they should b upset with are now the ones they hope to leadthem to prosperrity! crazy. let the dems have a go and vote them out in a couple of years if no progress; couple years int gunna kill any one, maurading thuggerry and genade attacts will

Most agricultural land is either exempt or taxed at reduced rate from what I understand.

[silk]

BTW: People affected by a land tax that starts at 5 rai can hardly be called rice barons! Any family around my families house owns more or at least close to that amount of land and is still poor. So go tell those poeple, who can't even make a decent living with their 5 rai rice field, much less send their kids to a school whose English teacher's credentials aren't "having a farang boyfriend", our Oxford educated PM wants them to pay land tax now...

Who owns 5 rai land is not poor, they have a place to live and food (might be rice from their ricefield only)

[MGiacomoCM]

obviously corruption needs to be addressed at all levels; how your schools local adminis connected to abhisit free education policy i'm not sure

After the Democrats took over all kinds of public servants and officials were replaced, starting from the police and school officials, right to civil servants at the local Amphoe. A friend of my wife who was in a leading position had at the later had to 'retire' on corruption claims and was replaced by a 20 year old university graduate whose first move was to accidentally throw out half of the offices archives, losing records and data of hundreds of people. I get that a PM can only do so much, BUT he is suppossed to be in charge. Or at the very least he should KNOW that his policies are not properly implemented and not go around bragging about their alleged success. What I see here is that since Abhisit is in power corruption is more rampant and openly practiced than ever. Of course Mr. T was corrupt like hel_l, but he was also so powerful, that police wer afraid of getting caught receiving bribes if not directly oredered to. Abhisit on the other hand is seen as so weak that his policies are openly sabotaged even by public officials in a lot of places. Is that his fault? Perhaps not. But as the PM he is responsible, he can't be measured on good will alone. If results don't get to the people he can't expect them to support him just for trying hard.

[Redsunset]

If government officials were not so corrupt and the our hard earned tax monies went where they should have gone, then we would not have half the problems we have now.

I'm sick and tired of being responsible for things the government should be responsible for. I do what I can by paying my taxes and serving my community.... these fat, pork barrel spending, lazy, good for nothing, corrupt politicians should all be thrown in jail - the whole lot of them.

That is why half the country does not get the safety net they deserve, without turning China into a Communist state.