Do Hirers Know A Decent Teacher From A Bad One?

[brahmburgers]

I just spoke with three farang English teachers. Two were from England and another from Australia. The two Brits were currently teaching and the Aussie told me he was 'between jobs' but had a long history of teaching in Thailand.

The odd part is, neither of the three men could speak English well. More specifically, each had a manner of speaking which was barely understandable for a fluent English speaker like myself. I'm American, and though I can't speak for all Americans, I speak English in such a manner that is understandable by people from many walks of life. I speak clearly and not fast. In contrast, the three Crown Subjects who I attempted to speak with, do not speak clearly. All three spoke quickly, but one in particular sped his sentences on to an indecipherable degree. The other two were mumblers, one of whom spoke with his head bowed down, which made it even more difficult to decipher what he was trying to say, the third man's sentences trailed off into jibberish sounding syllables.

If these men, and other farang like them, were granted teaching positions in Thai schools, surely they must have been interviewed beforehand. My guess is they were interviewed by one or more Thais who were impressed by paper credentials (easy to fake) and the fact that the three were farang and therefore (in the Thais' perspective) able to speak English.

I pity any students having to try to learn English from the likes of these men.

[jackdawson]

I speak clearly and not fast

if u bend at just the right angle , u should be able to reach around and pat yourself on the back

[Bobr]

I don't think so. I've heard Thai teachers conducting English classes for 10-11 and 12 year old children, and I could not understand what they were saying.

[keeniau96]

There are many peculiar dialects of English spoken. I have had problems understanding some friends from Australia, parts of Africa, some regions of the USA and indeed the UK. Pity the students who have such vocal models for their instruction.

[PeaceBlondie]

Standard English should be spoken in every English classroom by all teachers, Thai or farang or Filipina. Regional dialects not spoken. A native speaking Australian professor of English mistook my Midwestern American English as British.

[lazurus]

At middle of the road English language programs the management have no idea whether the teachers are good or not. They don't really care. If they can get enough foreign bodies in the classrooms that is their main objective. Sometimes the management doesn't speak english themselves, but usually they are interested in making money and finding teachers willing to work for relatively low wages.

I've known teachers that were totally incompetent, some that were total frauds, and some whose sanity was questionable. Others had no business being anywhere near children. In 2007 a man who was the subject of a world wide search by authorities for child abuse had no problem obtaining employment at a Thai School.

[Musongman]

I agree with the OP in many ways. My years teaching English in Japan, taught me that all English is not the same. Paper qualifications could not make up for the bad English many applicants spoke. In the beginning, I was guilty of speaking too quickly, but never of slatternly pronunciation or enunciation. Can the same be said for those teaching Thai to foreigners? Could the "rote" system employed by most Thai language schools be a result of laziness, poor speech or indifference? Language teaching is something I would never voluntarily return to doing. Yes, excellent speakers deserve a pat on the back!

[Slip]

Standard English should be spoken in every English classroom by all teachers, Thai or farang or Filipina. Regional dialects not spoken. A native speaking Australian professor of English mistook my Midwestern American English as British.

Is that the Queen's English, as we call it, old chap?

[PeaceBlondie]

I think it was called Received Pronunciation - a version limited to a tiny corner of south-west England, by verrrry proper English gentle persons. Or BBC before they hired Welsh and Glaswegians. American broadcasters learned N. Indianan.

Agreeing with lazurus - most Thai educators don't know or care about qwalikifashuns.

[madmitch]

"neither of the three men could speak English well"

That's not very good English either.

My GF's family took English lessons from a Thai. I was not around so didn't get a chance to speak to the teacher, whom I suspect could not speak English herself. At the end of the course the kids' English was no better than it was before but they could proudly say and spell the months of the year in English! I suspect the teacher was cheap but I wish they had spoken to me about it.

[PeaceBlondie]

.Since this is in Teaching Forum, special rule apply. See the pinned note.

[Sisaketmike]

Standard English should be spoken in every English classroom by all teachers, Thai or farang or Filipina. Regional dialects not spoken. A native speaking Australian professor of English mistook my Midwestern American English as British.

I'm sorry to say that. But how can somebody speak "Standard English", without being able to realize that nobody else can understand him/her? Can a -for example- Welsh guy adjust his English to Standard English?

That's like to ask an East German from lower saxony to speak High German.

I've met many 'teachers', some of them were so hard to understand and far away from speaking Standard English. That means that other teachers had to ask twice what some were trying to say.

How should students understand them is my biggest concern. A foreigner should adjust his English to the students. The sad thing is that lots don't even realize that.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Sisaketmike

[Sisaketmike]

"neither of the three men could speak English well"

That's not very good English either.

My GF's family took English lessons from a Thai. I was not around so didn't get a chance to speak to the teacher, whom I suspect could not speak English herself. At the end of the course the kids' English was no better than it was before but they could proudly say and spell the months of the year in English! I suspect the teacher was cheap but I wish they had spoken to me about it.

Many Thai teachers are running a language school business beside. The results are not really good. Easy to understand why. How can you teach a language you can't speak?

Also that Thai teachers are better in teaching Grammar isn't really true. A former student, Grade 8 said in a perfect way: Thai students have to learn a lot of Grammar, but they don't know vocabulary to use it.

The old teaching technique: The teacher is writing something on the board, some Thai explanation and the students copy that. Those who slept in this lesson will copy that afterward from a friend.

[Xangsamhua]

This thread is all over the place. I'm too old and tired to be bothered arguing over which accent/dialect/sociolect/ethnolect of World Englishes is the clearest and most suitable for teaching in Thailand. There are too many. Even Oz English is classified into Broad, General and Cultivated.

We have 17 nationalities teaching in English at our school and the kids are able to adapt pretty well to nearly every accent. The only ones I can think of that both kids and Thai staff had real problems understanding were (1) an Indian who had an IELTS Speaking score of 8(!) (I found him perfectly clear) and (2) an Italian, who had an excellent vocabulary but very strong Italian intonation (also a high IELTS score).

I don't know if some accents are better than others for teaching Thai students. Some teachers have told me they find US English easiest to follow; others have said Australian. I haven't asked many. English is too diversified to pick and choose. Also, a person presenting for an interview may well speak more carefully than he would among friends. I have to ask my daughters to slow down when they speak to me or their mother (and I'm a native speaker), and to follow a discussion among their spouses and friends is a real challenge, but I know both of them don't speak that way when they teach in the classroom.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Xangsamhua

[brahmburgers]

I speak clearly and not fast

if u bend at just the right angle , u should be able to reach around and pat yourself on the back

I'm not that limber. I was on a flight from the US to Bkk a few years ago, and was sitting next to a young Frenchman. Everything he said in English to me, I had to ask him to repeat at least once because his accent was so thick. Later he told me he had already been accepted at a prestigious Thai U, to teach English. I had a similar experience with a Finnish man whose handle on English was atrocious, yet he too had landed a good paying job teaching English at a Thai U.

Thai staff who hire would do themselves and their students a big favor if they had a native English speaker assist them in finding decent teachers. Most Thai staff, on their own, don't seem to be able to gauge a decent speaker of English from a bad one.

Then there's the issue of Thai nationals who try and teach English, yet wind up saddling their students with tons of ridiculous grammatical rules which only suffice in confusing the issues (plus their pronunciation is often off base). I've seen it first hand, when some Thai students asked me to assist them with an assignment. I looked it over and had to decline, as it was too convoluted and nutzoid for me to decipher. Add that to the ridiculous dictionaries that Thai students are given for reference (every page has at least one glaringly archaic word that hasn't been used in conversation in 250 years) - and it's no surprise that most Thai U graduates are abysmal at speaking English.

Incidentally, those dictionaries (compiled by Thai scholars) must be copies of copies of antiquated dictionaries. Why else would they have so many archaic words and phrases? English is best taught by native English speakers who can speak (and think) clearly. All others merely obfuscate the issue.

Edited May 3, 2010 by brahmburgers

[Scott]

Let's exercise great care in being critical of the accent of different nationalities. In my last 10 years of hiring people, I have seen and heard nearly every accent and combination of accent imaginable.

Non-native speakers were hired to teach subjects, such as math, science, social studies, PE, music etc. Most students could easily adapt to the accents (it took about 6 weeks).

I have also met a number of native speakers who were very difficult, but not because of their accent--they just spoke poorly, mumbling, too quiet and in one case, a person who had an exceptionally low voice and many of the sounds came through his nose--or so it seemed.

[thaicbr]

One thing to remember is that IF you teach all day and in the evenings then when you actually get to speak with someone that speaks and understands English then you might be tempted to speak faster. I know i do at times because lets face it i might have spent the previous 8 hours speaking much slower than my native speed.. and i have been told i have a very neutral accent.

[beano2274]

Excuse me but you were not in a teaching environment, when I am out with friends I talk completely different than when I am in the class.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think it's about time to remind everyone that:

3. It is inflammatory to refer to teachers in general or groups of teachers (by age, nationality, ethnicity, age, sexual preference, religion, or gender) in negative terms. It is also inflammatory to refer to the group of posters on this forum in negative terms. You may relate anecdotes about individual teachers who specifically deserve criticism in relation to some part of their identity as listed above, but such remarks should be carefully considered. The moderators reserve the right to determine if such statements about individual teachers remain on the forum.

While the topic and the ongoing discussion are skirting the letter of this guideline, they certainly violate the spirit of it- and frankly, I'm not really sure what the topic is about. The title is about hirers, but there is precious little about human resources being said in the thread. I also don't see this 'accent' discussion going anywhere near being 'resolved,' as there's no objective way to demonstrate if an accent is 'clear' or not.

Thread closed.