Is Thaivisa Female-friendly?

[bonobo]

The ThaiVisa membership is overwhelmingly male.  I don't know if women are not as interested as men in the subject matter posted or if what I see as the anti-female tone of many posters tends to steer them off (or if there is another reason, for that matter.)

On a daily basis, I read posts which deride Thai women as being money-hungry scam artists, of being stupid, of being unable to love, and so on.  I read posts which deride Western women as being sexless harpies who hate men, take everything in a divorce, are "fat, disgusting slobs," are "bitches," and so on.

Of course, not all posters are like this.  But recently, there have been a spate of posts in this vein, or even in a less blatant style where the stated goal in a relationship seems to be to "seduce" and "get her into the sack."  This still tends to objectify women, and I can see how this might be uncomfortable for our female members to read.

What strikes me about all of this is that all men have some degree of relationship with women.  We all have or have had a mother, who I assume most of us love.  And most of the vitriol seems to come from what I assume are hetrosexual men, so we have wives, daughters, sisters, girlfriends, and platonic friends.  So when we make these kinds of posts, it seems to me that we are hitting back at those women close to us.

It is more ironic, in my opinion, in that from reading many posts here, there is a high percentage of men who are here in Thailand specifically because of the women. Yet they deride them, the very reason they visit or live here.  It just doesn't make much sense to me.

I feel ThaiVisa should be a place where all people, male or female, should feel comfortable.  Yes, I know egregious cases of anti-female posts get deleted and the posters warned, but the tone of other posts, even if not actually breaking posting rules, can lead to an overall atmosphere which is not conducive to making everyone feel comfortable and at ease.

I am not knocking ThaiVisa itself (which I have obviously invested a lot of my time and effort.)  But the forum is made up of the posts of the membership.  And it is the posts of some male members which lead to this problem, as I see it.

OK, I will get off my soapbox now.  This observation has been building in me, and I guess I just had to vent.  I doubt this thread will make much of a difference, but I just ask that posters think a bit about how their posts might be perceived and use a little common courtesy.

Thanks.

 

[anothertorres]

the dregs of the global society live in Thailand and you can only assume that any Thai forum consists of that very demographic. and me? i'm just happy to be here...

[robblok]

I think its because a lot of the guys meet the wrong kind of woman. They want the super sexy lots younger girl and are themselves not in that leage at all so they pay(pay directly or impress them with money because that is what they have). The kind of woman that are bought are of course a lot more likely to deceive them because they are in it for the money. That is IMHO how it starts.

If they would look at a different kind of woman closer to how they themselves look then they would get a better kind. Many posters know this but loads don't want to acknowledge it. And yes there are always exceptions.

[mca]

I'll have to admit a large number of expats I've run in to over the years have a nasty streak running through them. Either complete contempt for Thai people, being so full of bullshit they could keep a rose nursery fertilized for years or just downright stitch up artistes. My tolerance level for these types is exactly zero. Life is waaaaaay too short to listen to their crap.

The amount of <deleted> written on here by some tells me more about the poster themselves than any comment they may have on Thai women etc.

Edited May 4, 2010 by mca

[FarangCravings]

On a daily basis, I read posts which deride Thai women as being money-hungry scam artists, of being stupid, of being unable to love, and so on. I read posts which deride Western women as being sexless harpies who hate men, take everything in a divorce, are "fat, disgusting slobs," are "bitches," and so on.

Well its true is it not ??

I dont think those that post are lying they are telling it the way it is in there experience here I have met so many guys that have been ripped off albeit there stupidity but in any other country its Fraud but here its accepted a thai bird can clean you out of everything and then move onto the next guy.

it cant be denied theres hundreds of cases in thailand

It not illegal to be stupid which is what most of these guys are but I still feel for them

I watched one US tv program about a guy who was doing the same he got 8 years in jail for making an American bird fall in love and give him all her money he did it to 3 women and was eventually arrested wnet to trail and jailed.

Shame its not the same here

[carmine]

I'll have to admit a large number of expats I've run in to over the years have a nasty streak running through them. Either complete contempt for Thai people, being so full of bullshit they could keep a rose nursery fertilized for years or just downright stitch up artistes. My tolerance level for these types is exactly zero. Life is waaaaaay too short to listen to their crap.

The amount of <deleted> written on here by some tells me more about the poster themselves than any comment they may have on Thai women etc.

I think it's fair to say that the way you have catagorized theses expats could just as easily catagorize a fairly decent percentage of Thais too.

[bonobo]

On a daily basis, I read posts which deride Thai women as being money-hungry scam artists, of being stupid, of being unable to love, and so on. I read posts which deride Western women as being sexless harpies who hate men, take everything in a divorce, are "fat, disgusting slobs," are "bitches," and so on.

Well its true is it not ??

And that illustrates my point exactly.

[mca]

Well its true is it not ??

I dont think those that post are lying they are telling it the way it is in there experience here I have met so many guys that have been ripped off albeit there stupidity but in any other country its Fraud but here its accepted a thai bird can clean you out of everything and then move onto the next guy.

it cant be denied theres hundreds of cases in thailand

I think it's the sweeping generalization that Thai women will rip you off that's the point of contention. A bit like saying every young black teenager in London is a mugger.

[bkkjames]

Regarding the posts about Western women, you must read them pretty quickly Bonobo because they generally get deleted if there is any hint of negativity - seems its pretty one side. Only sweet posts or no posts

[OxfordWill]

Well according to this report (attached) there is another side to the topic. Check out the Thailand country profile for expat experiences.

"However, the luckiest expats for finding love were found in Thailand – some 47%

admit finding love since moving to the country. This is in stark contrast to the

worldwide average of just 20%.

"

HSBCInternationalExpatExperienceReport2009.pdf

[FarangCravings]

Well according to this report (attached) there is another side to the topic. Check out the Thailand country profile for expat experiences.

"However, the luckiest expats for finding love were found in Thailand – some 47%

admit finding love since moving to the country. This is in stark contrast to the

worldwide average of just 20%.

"

Or think they have found love till the money runs out or she cleans him out

Now I am only going by the people I have met and the tons of storys of guys losing Cars Motorbike Houses money Gold

Yes I do know of some that are happily attached like myself and many of my friends but I think there are just too many storys of guys lsoing everything for it to be ignored.

Yes there are good thai women (most are ting tong anyway) and I have lots fo friends that have been with there women a long time and some were previous BG and they are very happy together I think those sort are hard to find though

[sarahsbloke]

On a daily basis, I read posts which deride Thai women as being money-hungry scam artists, of being stupid, of being unable to love, and so on. I read posts which deride Western women as being sexless harpies who hate men, take everything in a divorce, are "fat, disgusting slobs," are "bitches," and so on.

I'm pretty sure that the men posting don't hate western women, but hate the western justice system that give the western women a 'free' house they never worked for. Similarly the men posting don't hate Thai women, but hate the system which forces the men to put houses in a Thai womans name, which is subsequently taken from them.

So I don't think it's really about hating women at all, but hating the perceived injustice in women taking houses from men for whatever reason. Some people express themselves badly and it looks like they blame the woman and not the system. Those who learn from past experience lose one house and move on.

[h90]

When it starts with Thai women, Thais, Farang women etc etc I stop reading because I know some nonsense will come in the next sentence.

Neither Thais (male, female) not farangs are complete uniform.

People are different.

But there are a lot males who can't find a wife in their home country, meet one bar girl after the other and than think all Thai women are the same as these bar girls.

[sarahsbloke]

But there are a lot males who can't find a wife in their home country

I did find a wife in my own country and we were married for 30 years, but when she got fed up with me and drove me away, I didn't want another woman my own age ....... unlike men all women have a sell by date printed on them (round about 50), after that not much point except force of habit.

I'm not convinced women in the western society even like men very much, let alone want to live with them forever.

Anyway as a woman when you reach 50 why not divorce the husband, you can get almost everything, why keep him?

And don't forget the benifits system, poor hard done by, mentally abused single woman/mother mistreated by rough/nasty/oafish man, is worth a load of government cash.

Single middle class man gets nothing.

Edited May 4, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Naam]

OK, I will get off my soapbox now.

it was about time that one of you moderators got ON your soapbox!

[neverdie]

OK, I will get off my soapbox now.

it was about time that one of you moderators got ON your soapbox!

its a long climb down for you, i heard

[Berkshire]

It's quite simple, actually—yet, complicated in a sort of surreal way. To simplify, consider this:

Farang man visits Thailand for the first time. Makes a B-line to the bars. Becomes enamored with Thai bargirls. He hasn't had this sort of attention in years, let alone, from young, attractive babes. Has the GF experience of his life.

Leaves Thailand, but is convinced that Thai women just love farangs. Doesn't realize (or refuses to realize) that it was all a fantasy. Much like paying to go see Avatar to escape reality for a couple of hours.

Goes back to his dreary home and all he can think about is returning to Thailand. Once he's tasted the forbidden fruit, normal life pretty much sucks. He vows to move to Thailand forever and live that fantasy life that westerner's like him can only dream about.

Returns to Thailand to stay, believing that his fantasies will all come true once he's here full-time.

Slowly realizes (is forced to this time) that it was in fact a fantasy. That Thai women are, by and large, nothing like bargirls. Regular Thai women view him sort of the same as farang women back in Farangland (well, a bit better). Even the bargirls aren't the same when the meter's not running.

Continues to frequent the bars because that's all he knows. The relationships that he has with the bargirls are nothing like that "week" that he had when he visited that first time. He's starting to realize that he's not as "handsome" as he thought he was. Starts to develop animosity for not only bargirls, but Thai girls in general.

His contempt goes well beyond the Thai women now as he lashes out at everything Thai. Why do they do things this way? Why do they speak this ridiculous language? Why don't they speak English? Why don't they do things the way we do things back home? Why, why, why?

Alas, he either returns home a bitter, broken man, or sticks around and vents on ThaiVisa.

[sarahsbloke]

And don't forget the benifits system,

This idiot can't even spell benefits ....... bum, that was me!

[carmine]

Regarding the posts about Western women, you must read them pretty quickly Bonobo because they generally get deleted if there is any hint of negativity - seems its pretty one side. Only sweet posts or no posts

Hit the nail on the head there

[Old Croc]

A question was asked in the first few words of the title of this thread, then ignored as the OP launched into an attack on men in the rest of his post.

He appears to have a one sided view of the subject, and his status on the forum may tend to hinder posters who might wish to disagree with some of the conclusions reached. This type of heavy handed attitude by the people who run the forum could even have spurred some frustrated posters to have made the sort of posts that are outside reasonable guidelines.

Because of the unique nature of Thailand and many of people who migrate here, there is always going to be an over representation of bitter, nasty expats who blame others for the mess their life has become. And, unfortunately, they sometimes feel the need to vent their anger on this forum. These posts are correctly deleted.

However, in my opinion, there has developed here, a culture of placing female members on some sort of untouchable pedestal. If anyone has the termerity to critisize, strongly disagree or engage in a war of words with a female member they are automatically put in the position of trangressor and villain and labelled misoginist. Their posts are deleted.

On the other hand, mainly in that sacred place called the Ladies forum, different rules seem to apply. Men are routinely called fat, old, dirty, smelly sexpats and worse. Threads are started to discuss mens appendages (size) and their disgusting habits and behaviour. Young man-candy picture threads are there for the women on the forum to drool over.

Misandry is common, and acceptable.

I think an even handed approach towards all posters is the way to go. No protectionism, no hypocrisy and no tolerance of any poster spreading hate or bitterness on the basis of gender.

[cdnvic]

And don't forget the benifits system,

This idiot can't even spell benefits ....... bum, that was me!

Since you are only flaming yourself I'll let you off with a warning.

[bkkjames]

And don't forget the benifits system,

This idiot can't even spell benefits ....... bum, that was me!

Since you are only flaming yourself I'll let you off with a warning.

Pretty funny stuff on such a very serious topic! Perhaps we should introduce him to the Edit button?

[bkkjames]

A question was asked in the first few words of the title of this thread, then ignored as the OP launched into an attack on men in the rest of his post.

He appears to have a one sided view of the subject, and his status on the forum may tend to hinder posters who might wish to disagree with some of the conclusions reached. This type of heavy handed attitude by the people who run the forum could even have spurred some frustrated posters to have made the sort of posts that are outside reasonable guidelines.

Because of the unique nature of Thailand and many of people who migrate here, there is always going to be an over representation of bitter, nasty expats who blame others for the mess their life has become. And, unfortunately, they sometimes feel the need to vent their anger on this forum. These posts are correctly deleted.

However, in my opinion, there has developed here, a culture of placing female members on some sort of untouchable pedestal. If anyone has the termerity to critisize, strongly disagree or engage in a war of words with a female member they are automatically put in the position of trangressor and villain and labelled misoginist. Their posts are deleted.

On the other hand, mainly in that sacred place called the Ladies forum, different rules seem to apply. Men are routinely called fat, old, dirty, smelly sexpats and worse. Threads are started to discuss mens appendages (size) and their disgusting habits and behaviour. Young man-candy picture threads are there for the women on the forum to drool over.

Misandry is common, and acceptable.

I think an even handed approach towards all posters is the way to go. No protectionism, no hypocrisy and no tolerance of any poster spreading hate or bitterness on the basis of gender.

Nice to know you Old Croc

[bonobo]

A question was asked in the first few words of the title of this thread, then ignored as the OP launched into an attack on men in the rest of his post.

He appears to have a one sided view of the subject, and his status on the forum may tend to hinder posters who might wish to disagree with some of the conclusions reached. This type of heavy handed attitude by the people who run the forum could even have spurred some frustrated posters to have made the sort of posts that are outside reasonable guidelines.

Feel free to disagree with anything I, or any other moderator, for that matter, post as a member.  (Criticisms of moderation, though, as always, should be addressed via PM or by writing [email protected].)

I take issue with your first sentence, though.  I asked a question, then gave my reasons for asking it.  Pretty simple, I think.  And I was careful to write that not all men fall into this category, and that much of what I wrote was prefaced as my feelings or opinions.  So how my posts that I feel some men might be making it uncomfortable for our female members is an attack on men in general is really beyond me.  And as I also posted that this is only from some male posters, I am not sure how that can be construed as one-sided.

[bkkjames]

A question was asked in the first few words of the title of this thread, then ignored as the OP launched into an attack on men in the rest of his post.

He appears to have a one sided view of the subject, and his status on the forum may tend to hinder posters who might wish to disagree with some of the conclusions reached. This type of heavy handed attitude by the people who run the forum could even have spurred some frustrated posters to have made the sort of posts that are outside reasonable guidelines.

Feel free to disagree with anything I, or any other moderator, for that matter, post as a member. 

I take issue with your first sentence, though.  I asked a question, then gave my reasons for asking it.  Pretty simple, I think.  And I was careful to write that not all men fall into this category, and that much of what I wrote was prefaced as my feelings or opinions.  So how my posts that I feel some men might be making it uncomfortable for our female members is an attack on men in general is really beyond me.  And as I also posted that this is only from some male posters, I am not sure how that can be construed as one-sided.

When a male member makes a general statement about Western Women, he does (n't) mean all of them...just the one's it pertains to.

For example, if I was to say "Western Women look funny with curly hair" doesn't mean I was talking about SBK.

Edited May 4, 2010 by bkkjames

[mark45y]

I have worked in two large businesses where I was the only male executive (health care and a women‘s college). I noticed a duplicity of this objectifying phenomenon. Lunches, staff meetings after hours relaxing functions and conventions were all filled with men bashing jokes and objectifying men in general. Serious non business discussions were reserved for divorce strategy planning and why cats were better than husbands.

I would disagree that the dregs of global society live in Thailand and have found many interesting people who have fascinating jobs and views of life. Oil, mining, defense, and many other interesting if primarily masculine dangerous jobs make for interesting stories.

In Thai business I have not observed the political correctness that is currently rampant in western business. It is a bit archaic but sometimes refreshing.

I know the average Thai boss would not last two minutes in some of the places I have worked. I think as western men become acclimated to Thai ways it is predictable that this would upset western woman who have become used to western PC business patterns.

I don’t feel in general western women want equality. They want an absence of criticism. It is perfectly OK to bash the fat uncouth falang as long as it is a he.

I would rather see more women posting on Thai Visa. I think their input is a welcome change from the same old drunken pub stereotypes. But I would like to see them posting with equality and not retreating behind a wall of PC armor when they have been intellectually bested. I don’t think the answer is to create a cocoon of molly coddling to get more female posters.

The men who live here happily have beat the system. My ex wife told the judge that she wanted to make sure I never had another happy day in my life after she divorced me. She would have been correct had I stayed in the west. She didn’t know about Thailand.

Some men try and make Thailand as much like the west as possible and this creates friction with those of us who have adapted to Thai customs, good and bad because we wanted to get away from the west.

Thailand is a male dominated society run by women. Some people have difficulty grasping this concept.

[AndyBlueEyes]

I do agree that many TV male posters become misogynistic ("misogynistical" is not a word) after they have some bad experiences with Thai women and begin to paint all Thai women with the same brush. Perhaps the root cause of this distrust or hatred is that the type of Thai women that many farangs becomes involved with are not really representative of the what most Thais would consider to be an average Thai woman.

[samuibeachcomber]

post 17 pretty much describes it.Back to the original post.I think there is a backlash from guys towards western women.We want women to be women not men.We dont want women to think like men,act like men and behave like men,we want to be different and we want women to be different to us,otherwise whats the point.The sexes are meant to compliment each other not to be clones.The different roles that men and women had in society defined the difference,now women can have and do anything a man can,and the roles have become blurred and as a result i believe men do not respect women as they once did.And of course this is just one reason that men come to asia to seek a relationship that he saw his mother and father have way back in the 1950's when growing up as a young man.

[bonobo]

I do agree that many TV male posters become misogynistic ("misogynistical" is not a word) 

Yes, I know and tried to change it, but there isn't an editing function for sub-titles!  (And you are also invited to read the thread on corrections of others' writing.    )  

[Boo]

oh dear, some pretty predicable posts from the usual suspects but some thoughtful posts too. Nice try bonobo but sadly the victims & haters will always be victims & haters cause it is always someone else fault & never anything to do with them