Success In Business

[marquess]

The question, is can an individual farang really be successful and make a lot of money in business here in Thailand? Naturally one hears of so and so opening a bar or running a computer repair service. I have yet to see one Farang really achieve multi millionaire status, here in Thailand. Why is this so? Ideas and comments please (Please let's exclude those in the entertaiment field)

[Tornado]

Depends on what business you start off with. It seems that many farangs end up poor/business fails in Thailand but I think that has also to do with problems with wives, government and partying - being focused, above board and doing a proper job.

If you are commited to a business and you know your demographics, have some talent and some back up capital, you should do very well.

[Heng]

Bill Heinecke, B. Grimm (who has been dead since the early 1900's), um... Jim Thompson (who has likely been dead since the late 60's)...

I'm sure there are a few others.

Why so few? IMO if you spend too much time complaining about the rules, there isn't much time left to actually play the game.

[duke69]

Bill Heinecke, B. Grimm (who has been dead since the early 1900's), um... Jim Thompson (who has likely been dead since the late 60's)...

I'm sure there are a few others. 

Why so few?  IMO if you spend too much time complaining about the rules, there isn't much time left to actually play the game. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jim Thompson ....... don't include him since his history is not very clear. But he is still alive!!! I saw him yesterday in Cameron Highlands (Malaysia) looking for mushrooms.

To answer the query: Only very good and outstanding people can make a lot of money in Thailand and only if the SUPERGENIUS is also connected with politicians locally ..... which means nobody coming to LOS with 3 Tshirts and 240 Condoms in his bags (99% of foreigners) .....

Also in Europe and US the success is related to "friends" @ high level,

[Ajarn]

I believe there are a myriad of ways for the clever farang to make money here, even a teacher

I always had a decent salary as a teacher, but I also had outside work. As a university teacher, I only taught from 9-15 hours per week in my jobs, which left me lots of time... Once you've established yourself in your community, and especially if you are well-qualified educationally, many more doors will open to you... 1000+ baht per hour teaching gigs are not at all unknown here, but they're mostly not interested in newbies...

As for other ways to generate money in teaching here, try stepping out of the classroom, and begin to think out of the box...

Some years ago, I had a company called Chiang Mai Testing Services (CMTS). We offered 'practice' Toefl and Toeic tests at 200 baht per shot. We were used by local english schools and larger companies mostly. Minimum of 10..

Before, and after.... One test at the beginning of the class, one at the end, to show the student's 'improvement'. Very easy to market anywhere we went, because every student loves to see marked improvement.... (no gurantees of real-life English improvement though, I'd say (to myself )

So, the quick math:

200x20 students (average number per class)= 4,000x 2 times per class term.

Time: 2 hours for testing 20 students, approx 3 minutes each to mark and evalute exam.

Total work time for 4,000 baht: 3 hours. (Plus the travel time, etc.)

Hire some hungry and handsome teacher to do the testing and marking, and you'll still generate a nice margin. That added 60,000+ to my income, most months...

And why didn't those hungry handsome teachers do this on their own? Because they couldn't be bothered with the legwork to set it up... Guess they weren't that hungry, afterall....

All off any books, but I wouldn't recommend that now. This was 10+ years ago. But I'm sure it could be done legally...

Lot's of roads in Thailand for the creative guy with energy and a desire for fun while making money. Hey, sounds like a hooker!

Yep. Lots of roads...

Edited June 8, 2005 by Ajarn

[Kerryd]

Famous saying I first heard over 10 years ago.

"If you want to make a small fortune in Thailand, start with a BIG one" !

In other words, if you start off with a large fortune, hopefully by the time you realize things aren't working out, you may still be able to escape with a small fortune.

That being said, making money in Thailand is possible, but you have to do the legwork first. (i.e. What do you propose to do. Is there a market for it here. What are the rules/regulations for setting up a company. Who do I have to "know" to smooth things along. Can I do this without having to learn the local language ?)

Whether you want to set up a chain of internet shops (heaven forbid), or dive-shops (Poseidon forbid) or food-cart vendors, there is a lot of work that has to go on, and a lot of money that has to be spent, before you'll see your first baht of return.

Best bet to make it rich in Thailand ? Win the lottery (fat chance) or marry in to Toxin's family (even fatter chance !).

[duke69]

Ajarn

I know that everything in this world is different and the glass can be either half full or half empty ......................

BUT

this time the question is clear!!!!!

Is 1000 Euro per month on an unsecure job the answer to the poster????

Come on!!!

You can live very well with 60.000 baht per month, just like a factory worker in Leverkusen or in the Hannover Harbour!!

You can live like a McDonald waiter in Manchester ....

may be better than them

But the query was clear (and for an English teacgher like you should be even clearer).

Marquess wanted to know if a foreign ever made million of Euros (or US$, not Baht) and became rich in Thailand.

Marquess is not interested in a teacher (which indeed is not the best category in Thailand to show off their successful business life) who played illegally 10+ years ago ..... just to have a 1 room apt, a tuk tuk and 2 (not 3) beers in a bar!!!

Otherwise TGS will start writing here that he was a billionaire making 3 US$ a day!!!

[chownah]

If a westerner is interested in achieving 'multi millionaire status' ('multi millionaire status' is exactly what the original poster is asking about) and if that same westerner is smart enough to actually make multi millions then that westerner is smart enough to know that you can do it alot easier and alot bigger elsewhere.

If you say 'yeah but I want to live in Thailand', then my opinion is that you really don't have the drive to make multi millions. To make multi millions (I'm talking dollars or euros....not baht) you need to have a high degree of dedication to your enterprise...you will be too busy making money to really care too much about where you live.

Thailand is not a good place for westerners to make multi millions.....I'm not saying its impossible but it is alot easier somewhere else.

Edited June 8, 2005 by chownah

[Ajarn]

Duke, sorry you didn't see anything of value in my post, maybe if you expanded your thinking and opened your mind a bit more, you might get some points..

It's not about Who you know, or even what you know... It's about what you do. It's about hustling. It's about details. My teacher story was just an example of 'thinking outside the box', there's no limit to the income from such a simple idea as that, done on a large scale. Think a bit more about potential down the road, not just what you can put in your pocket today.

Be creative. Don't set roadblocks for yourself, ie, "you need a fortune to make a fortune". Too many have proved that to be untrue.

Broaden your thinking, and the world will become broader, too.

[Soi Mongrel]

It is definitely possible, though not as a bar owner or English teacher. Come here with skills, education, a respectible appearance, and some street smarts -- plus a bit of luck -- and you can easily make as much in Thailand as you could back home.

[mpdkorat]

Duke, sorry you didn't see anything of value in my post, maybe if you expanded your thinking and opened your mind a bit more, you might get some points..

It's not about Who you know, or even what you know... It's about what you do. It's about hustling. It's about details.  My teacher story was just an example of 'thinking outside the box', there's no limit to the income from such a simple idea as that, done on a large scale. Think a bit more about potential down the road, not just what you can put in your pocket today.

Be creative. Don't set roadblocks for yourself, ie, "you need a fortune to make a fortune". Too many have proved that to be untrue.

Broaden your thinking, and the world will become broader, too. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

''Thinking outside the box, broaden your thinking''. That goes without saying.

It's not about Who you know, or even what you know'' Yes it is and at all levels of business.

''Be creative. Don't set roadblocks for yourself'' You do not need to set road blocks the Thai's will assist you on that one.

Your teacher story was a good idea an extra 60,000 baht goes a long way here. But your not doing it now why?? Road block......??

Yes you can make money with great effort and luck. Better to wait till you have it and wait to you are ready to chill out, then come here to retire, leaving most of your assets in your home country where they will be much safer for many reasons.

[pedro01]

Duke, sorry you didn't see anything of value in my post, maybe if you expanded your thinking and opened your mind a bit more, you might get some points..

It's not about Who you know, or even what you know... It's about what you do. It's about hustling. It's about details.  My teacher story was just an example of 'thinking outside the box', there's no limit to the income from such a simple idea as that, done on a large scale. Think a bit more about potential down the road, not just what you can put in your pocket today.

Be creative. Don't set roadblocks for yourself, ie, "you need a fortune to make a fortune". Too many have proved that to be untrue.

Broaden your thinking, and the world will become broader, too. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah - broaden your horizons & you too can earn 4,000 for 3 hours work (plus travel time of course).

Errr - Ajarn - some of us are earning a lot more than that already, in Thailand, in our day jobs.

Show us the big money..

[kreon]

i've had a number of businesses here...i made money by either selling them back to my thai partners or when owned by myself closed them down and took the cash out when they reached their max profit peaks

right now am in the middle of setting-up two new ones

as ajarn says, its about creativity and balls, whether the sums are large or small, you must always keep an eye out for the competition and/or your thai parteners

and with the internet and other parts of asia right on your doorstep, there are plenty of opportunites abound

i think the guys that make most of their money here, don't neccesarily make it here in thailand only, they tend to use asia as a whole as their business platform

the point is you all have to start somewhere, some things work, some don't, same elsewhere around the world, one disadvantage in thailand is the currency restriction of expatriation profits offshore, so most guys here will be very low-key about their true financial status

Edited June 8, 2005 by kreon

[Indo-Siam]

An opening quotation: "Opportunity is missed by most because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas A. Edison

Here is the business analysis of waht it takes to become a "multi (US$) Millionnaire in Thailand:

You need to accumulate US $2 million

Either: 1) Save US $200,000 per year (667,000 baht per month)

2) Build a business that sells for 80,000,000 baht.

What sort of business sells for 80 million baht? Well, if you assume a P/E ratio of 15, it means that you company has to be making an after tax profit of 5.4 million baht per year = 450,000 baht per month. Or - if the company has assets of - let's say 5 million baht = 420,000 baht per month profit.

OK. Well, to earn after tax profit of 420,000 baht per month, you need to create a company - or several companies, that gross 1,200,000 baht per month - with about 50% profit before taxes. Assuming 20 workdays per month, that's 60,000 baht (gross) per day.

How do you do that? Well, the tough way is to pursue a line of business where you have to find new customers constantly, to make up that entire amount. A much easier way is to operate a business where you gradually build up an ever-growing roster of steady, repeat customers. 60,000 baht gross per day (20 days per month) is 120 customers each paying you 15,000 baht per month.

How do you achieve that?

Pick up 1.5 new customers per month, at 15,000 baht per month each, every month, for 10 years - and lose 0.75 old customers each month through attrition. And - hang onto a 50% profit margin, before taxes. Stick it into a spreadsheet, and check it out.

Now - is it realistic to sell a Thai Private Co. Ltd. for 15 times earnings? I don't know. That's about a 6.6% return on investment. If you can pull off the scenario I outline above, you are producing a profit growth of more than 10% year-on year.

So - what are the characteristics of a company that erans 1.2 millon per month, and makes 60% profit before taxes? Well, it has expenses of 600,000 baht per month. Let's say - 150,000 baht per month salary for the founder/MD, 80,000 baht rent of facilities, 70,000 baht per month in utilities, 100,000 baht per month in other expenses, and 200,000 baht per month in Thai staff salaries.

Is all this doable? Yes it is.

It isn't "sexy" - it isn't constantly chasing "long shots," and trying to make your whole nut on one "whale" of a deal (which I see so many foreigners here trying to do). It is doggedly and persistently building up recurring business - small, incremental business. Relentlessly. And it means hanging onto customers - and trying to help them remain successful, and in business.

If you have more than 10 years to play out the sceanrio, then you can operate with less demanding benchmarks.

'Time for a closing quote - I think it came from someone earlier, but I heard it attributed to Martin Luther King: "Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway. "

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[aqua]

I have met a very successful Black / Red Tilapia farmer from the UK who has been here for years and has PR. He operates 2 farms in Prachinburi and has over 50 ponds and all he does is spawns and sells Tilapia fry. He has thousands of customers within Thailand and they even air freight fry to international markets

[Tornado]

Indo Siam = It isn't "sexy" - it isn't constantly chasing "long shots," and trying to make your whole nut on one "whale" of a deal (which I see so many foreigners here trying to do). It is doggedly and persistently building up recurring business - small, incremental business. Relentlessly. And it means hanging onto customers - and trying to help them remain successful, and in business.

In context with your post, I think they are very wise words.

[Ajarn]

Duke, sorry you didn't see anything of value in my post, maybe if you expanded your thinking and opened your mind a bit more, you might get some points..

It's not about Who you know, or even what you know... It's about what you do. It's about hustling. It's about details.  My teacher story was just an example of 'thinking outside the box', there's no limit to the income from such a simple idea as that, done on a large scale. Think a bit more about potential down the road, not just what you can put in your pocket today.

Be creative. Don't set roadblocks for yourself, ie, "you need a fortune to make a fortune". Too many have proved that to be untrue.

Broaden your thinking, and the world will become broader, too. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

''Thinking outside the box, broaden your thinking''. That goes without saying.

It's not about Who you know, or even what you know'' Yes it is and at all levels of business.

''Be creative. Don't set roadblocks for yourself'' You do not need to set road blocks the Thai's will assist you on that one.

Your teacher story was a good idea an extra 60,000 baht goes a long way here. But your not doing it now why?? Road block......??

Yes you can make money with great effort and luck. Better to wait till you have it and wait to you are ready to chill out, then come here to retire, leaving most of your assets in your home country where they will be much safer for many reasons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not about Who you know, or even what you know'' Yes it is and at all levels of business.

Please use the full context... Including, 'it's about what you do'. Your spin doesn't follow...

''Be creative. Don't set roadblocks for yourself'' You do not need to set road blocks the Thai's will assist you on that one.

again...'ie, "you need a fortune to make a fortune" . Too many have proved that to be untrue'.. Roadblocks from outside wasn't the main point, but you knew that, huh?

Your teacher story was a good idea an extra 60,000 baht goes a long way here. But your not doing it now why?? Road block......??

Yes, of a sort. I was forced into retirement by a stroke which left me paralyzed on one side. Thankfully, I'm financially quite comforatable. And I'm happy to try to support and encourage others to succeed here, not including the stroke part .

Yes you can make money with great effort and luck. Better to wait till you have it and wait to you are ready to chill out, then come here to retire, leaving most of your assets in your home country where they will be much safer for many reasons.

I completely agree. Better safe than sorry, for most, if you can.

[Dragonman]

I also think why come to Thailand to try and make lots of money. Much easier in a Country you really know lots about and where the spoken language is your native one. Besides the fact that profit margins are lower here.

Anyway I earned 10 times more before I retired here, but I actually had to work. Some people seem to like it, but I did it for the money.

[Rinrada]

  Anyway I earned 10 times more before I retired here, but I actually had to work. Some people seem to like it, but I did it for the money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Think you got it about right here If you gotta actually work to make money then you will probabally never get rich but you could still be happy and achieve a level of personal satisfaction.....up 2 you

[mpdkorat]

Duke, sorry you didn't see anything of value in my post, maybe if you expanded your thinking and opened your mind a bit more, you might get some points..

It's not about Who you know, or even what you know... It's about what you do. It's about hustling. It's about details.  My teacher story was just an example of 'thinking outside the box', there's no limit to the income from such a simple idea as that, done on a large scale. Think a bit more about potential down the road, not just what you can put in your pocket today.

Be creative. Don't set roadblocks for yourself, ie, "you need a fortune to make a fortune". Too many have proved that to be untrue.

Broaden your thinking, and the world will become broader, too. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

''Thinking outside the box, broaden your thinking''. That goes without saying.

It's not about Who you know, or even what you know'' Yes it is and at all levels of business.

''Be creative. Don't set roadblocks for yourself'' You do not need to set road blocks the Thai's will assist you on that one.

Your teacher story was a good idea an extra 60,000 baht goes a long way here. But your not doing it now why?? Road block......??

Yes you can make money with great effort and luck. Better to wait till you have it and wait to you are ready to chill out, then come here to retire, leaving most of your assets in your home country where they will be much safer for many reasons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not about Who you know, or even what you know'' Yes it is and at all levels of business.

Please use the full context... Including, 'it's about what you do'. Your spin doesn't follow...

''Be creative. Don't set roadblocks for yourself'' You do not need to set road blocks the Thai's will assist you on that one.

again...'ie, "you need a fortune to make a fortune" . Too many have proved that to be untrue'.. Roadblocks from outside wasn't the main point, but you knew that, huh?

Your teacher story was a good idea an extra 60,000 baht goes a long way here. But your not doing it now why?? Road block......??

Yes, of a sort. I was forced into retirement by a stroke which left me paralyzed on one side. Thankfully, I'm financially quite comforatable. And I'm happy to try to support and encourage others to succeed here, not including the stroke part .

Yes you can make money with great effort and luck. Better to wait till you have it and wait to you are ready to chill out, then come here to retire, leaving most of your assets in your home country where they will be much safer for many reasons.

I completely agree. Better safe than sorry, for most, if you can.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think what I said made sense even after you added to my quoted part. It's not that you are definitely wrong it is just it really does not work that way here. When it comes to advise to a new comer it is better to ere on the side of safety, don’t you think?

Sorry about the stroke which left you paralyzed, can you still throw the blackboard rubber at the students?

[LaoPo]

I have met a very successful Black / Red Tilapia farmer from the UK who has been here for years and has PR. He operates 2 farms in Prachinburi and has over 50 ponds and all he does is spawns and sells Tilapia fry. He has thousands of customers within Thailand and they even air freight fry to international markets

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting but scary also.

There have been a few stories of successful fish-farmers before, who have been murdered, just because they were successful ......

Staying very, very low-profile is important I would think.

LaoPo

[aqua]

Interesting but scary also.

There have been a few stories of successful fish-farmers before, who have been murdered, just because they were successful  ......

Staying very, very low-profile is important I would think.

Good advice for any fish farmers out there

[LaoPo]

The question, is can an individual farang really be successful and make a lot of money in business here in Thailand? Naturally one hears of so and so opening a bar or running a computer repair service.  I have yet to see one Farang really achieve multi millionaire status, here in Thailand. Why is this so? Ideas and comments please (Please let's exclude those in the entertaiment field)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, there are a few multi millionaires!

Why is this so?

Because they are not on TV....don't visit bars...stay low-profile...work their a##ses off...and most likely don't cross along 'walking street' in Pattaya....but play on the more important golf courses in Thailand where they meet the 'rich and famous'....

I used to work with a Frenchman who is married into the most influent family of TH (and increased their wealth substantially); I know of a Dutch guy who has factories all over the country....and another one who is (together with a rich Thai family) very big in project development and real estate.

Since he joined in he increased their, and his own, wealth

But, of course there are only a few, the majority will never be multi-millionaires.

LaoPo

[chownah]

I have met a very successful Black / Red Tilapia farmer from the UK who has been here for years and has PR. He operates 2 farms in Prachinburi and has over 50 ponds and all he does is spawns and sells Tilapia fry. He has thousands of customers within Thailand and they even air freight fry to international markets

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So how much does this farmer make?

[aqua]

Because they are not on TV....don't visit bars...stay low-profile...work their a##ses off...and most likely don't cross along 'walking street' in Pattaya....but play on the more important golf courses in Thailand where they meet the 'rich and famous'....

Don't know about spending time on golf courses but I would think that staying low profile, not getting into any disputes and working hard would be some of the keys to success. Also, don't involve any family members, girlfriends as it seems to lead to disputes and failure of the business. Keep the business seperate and find some business partners with similar goals to work with

[chownah]

The question, is can an individual farang really be successful and make a lot of money in business here in Thailand? Naturally one hears of so and so opening a bar or running a computer repair service.  I have yet to see one Farang really achieve multi millionaire status, here in Thailand. Why is this so? Ideas and comments please (Please let's exclude those in the entertaiment field)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, there are a few multi millionaires!

Why is this so?

Because they are not on TV....don't visit bars...stay low-profile...work their a##ses off...and most likely don't cross along 'walking street' in Pattaya....but play on the more important golf courses in Thailand where they meet the 'rich and famous'....

I used to work with a Frenchman who is married into the most influent family of TH (and increased their wealth substantially); I know of a Dutch guy who has factories all over the country....and another one who is (together with a rich Thai family) very big in project development and real estate.

Since he joined in he increased their, and his own, wealth

But, of course there are only a few, the majority will never be multi-millionaires.

LaoPo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll bet they were all rich before they came to Thailand. You don't marry into 'the most influent family of TH' unless you are rich already.

[aqua]

So how much does this farmer make?

From what I gather the first 3 years all revenue went back into the business as working capital and to develop the business further. As to how much he makes, not sure

[Dakhar]

I also think why come to Thailand to try and make lots of money. Much easier in a Country you really know lots about and where the spoken language is your native one. Besides the fact that profit margins are lower here.

  Anyway I earned 10 times more before I retired here, but I actually had to work. Some people seem to like it, but I did it for the money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I like your post and I agree.... But here is another thought. Currently, I make 4 to 5 tims the avg. American. Now, when I finally land in Thailand, I hope that my investments earn me aprox. 6 times the avg thai. Sure that will be around 8 times less than what I made in the states... but so what, comfortable is comfortable, no matter which way you slice it. It is all relative.

and like you, I am doing it for the money....

[Oleg_Rus]

I knew one brit who made pretty hefty income on computer networks installations. so good - he bought Jaguar and small house at Patanakarn in three years. How? he provided first class services for his clients, never fails his contract and always stuck to details. Nice guy, but really hard-ass.

I think the easiest way here is some sort of export - anything produced here, but with very strong supervision, that is - "devil in details"

Teaching - as my friend said - is rebound for creative businessman between his project.

Let's say even travel agency can make 100K a year at least, then what about other more creative things? the tire recylcing factory at Eastern Seaboard was sold with profit of 3mills, and started with 200K investment 1998, and there are other good examples ...

Booz Import Co., from Scotland was sold so good ot makes two partnes legit millioners at the age of 54. both scotts, though, sold to thai.

German guys ran recruitment comp. in 1997-8, become bloody reach until his TGF stole money from customers and run away. He came back from Deutchland straight to "Bangkok Hilton"

and more and more...

[samran]

I think the common thread is hard work...and keeping your head down, where it is in business or working for yourself. Stay out of the bars too on a school night.

A farang couple I know who live in Bangers....Each make 80K a month teching, and earn about 25-30K each per month by doing privates each night. So its a long day for them, but they like to kick back on the weekends, and lay low during the week.

The live off their privates salary, save there earnings. 160K is more that £2000 per month which they are saving. Plus they have a small property back in the UK which they rent out....so they are going to retire quite comfortably.