Thai Protesters Accept Pm Abhisit Election Roadmap, but refuse to go home

[invex]

well said, You prove my point.the gap is iIS getting smaller, but it takes time, but there are more rreforrms that need to come, more like a Social reforms to benefits the lower classes and the remote people in Thailand.

Just and advise for any goverment to come- Thailand should start turning to the provinces for the gowth engine and not base its economy on Bangkok,Eastern seaboward industries and south tourism that are based on cheap labour from the poor population and benefits the owners, but real education and sustainble growth upcountry that can benefit everybody.

I wish i was such a polyanna. I remember only too well just over a year ago, when there was a radio station in Chang Mai, and it was against the Thaskin supporting government. The Red Shirts, attacked the announcer and pulled his father out of a car and killed his father. Hundreds of witnesses, yet noboey was brought to justice for this execution.

Can party exercise free speach in Issan and live? Without being able to campain, put forth ideas, and programs, there is no hope for a healing of the classes. At the present time until the government really comes down with a heavy hand on this kind of extra-judicial killings becasue of a persons party of belief, I see little hope of anything but more of the turmoil, rampant corruption, and lawlessness that has permiated the region for years.

i am very happy to contradict you on this one:

on the 8th April 2010 a court in Chang Mai sentenced five men to 20 years in jail for the murder of the father of a key member of the yellow shirt People's Alliance for Democracy.

One of the convicted men is the chief security guard of the red shirt Rak Chiang Mai 51 group.

he is Niyom Lueangcharoen, he has jumped bail and remains at large.

Niyom, aka DJ Lae, has been seen on stage at the red rally on 7th April 2010 at Ratchaprasong intersection.

he has been reported as seen to be socialising with Jataporn at the red rally in Bangkok

there is a warrant out for his arrest

red leaders engaged in social intercourse with convicted murderers at peaceful rallies for democracy, whatever next..........?

How can be convicted murderers out on bail?

Sorry, I might be not so clever, but I don't get that.

[old wanderer]

well said, You prove my point.the gap is iIS getting smaller, but it takes time, but there are more rreforrms that need to come, more like a Social reforms to benefits the lower classes and the remote people in Thailand.

Just and advise for any goverment to come- Thailand should start turning to the provinces for the gowth engine and not base its economy on Bangkok,Eastern seaboward industries and south tourism that are based on cheap labour from the poor population and benefits the owners, but real education and sustainble growth upcountry that can benefit everybody.

I wish i was such a polyanna. I remember only too well just over a year ago, when there was a radio station in Chang Mai, and it was against the Thaskin supporting government. The Red Shirts, attacked the announcer and pulled his father out of a car and killed his father. Hundreds of witnesses, yet noboey was brought to justice for this execution.

Can party exercise free speach in Issan and live? Without being able to campain, put forth ideas, and programs, there is no hope for a healing of the classes. At the present time until the government really comes down with a heavy hand on this kind of extra-judicial killings becasue of a persons party of belief, I see little hope of anything but more of the turmoil, rampant corruption, and lawlessness that has permiated the region for years.

i am very happy to contradict you on this one:

on the 8th April 2010 a court in Chang Mai sentenced five men to 20 years in jail for the murder of the father of a key member of the yellow shirt People's Alliance for Democracy.

One of the convicted men is the chief security guard of the red shirt Rak Chiang Mai 51 group.

he is Niyom Lueangcharoen, he has jumped bail and remains at large.

Niyom, aka DJ Lae, has been seen on stage at the red rally on 7th April 2010 at Ratchaprasong intersection.

he has been reported as seen to be socialising with Jataporn at the red rally in Bangkok

there is a warrant out for his arrest

red leaders engaged in social intercourse with convicted murderers at peaceful rallies for democracy, whatever next..........?

Well with all this going on in BKK, that fact did slip by me...I am pleasantly surprised.

However, as you can see this Red party certainly does not have much of a moral basis. Here is a convicted murder, socializing with the leadership. But then if you look at Thaskin and how much blood he had on his hands, it is no surprise.

[old wanderer]

How can be convicted murderers out on bail?

Sorry, I might be not so clever, but I don't get that.

Well look at her nibs....Pochiman, sentenced to 3 years in jail for tax evasion, and managed to stay gone until the very last day for appeals, then filed an appeal and was granted bail and still left to travel internationally.

[shawndoc]

How can be convicted murderers out on bail?

Sorry, I might be not so clever, but I don't get that.

Pending appeal. This happens in western countries too, but a lot less frequently.

[timekeeper]

well said, You prove my point.the gap is iIS getting smaller, but it takes time, but there are more rreforrms that need to come, more like a Social reforms to benefits the lower classes and the remote people in Thailand.

Just and advise for any goverment to come- Thailand should start turning to the provinces for the gowth engine and not base its economy on Bangkok,Eastern seaboward industries and south tourism that are based on cheap labour from the poor population and benefits the owners, but real education and sustainble growth upcountry that can benefit everybody.

I wish i was such a polyanna. I remember only too well just over a year ago, when there was a radio station in Chang Mai, and it was against the Thaskin supporting government. The Red Shirts, attacked the announcer and pulled his father out of a car and killed his father. Hundreds of witnesses, yet noboey was brought to justice for this execution.

Can party exercise free speach in Issan and live? Without being able to campain, put forth ideas, and programs, there is no hope for a healing of the classes. At the present time until the government really comes down with a heavy hand on this kind of extra-judicial killings becasue of a persons party of belief, I see little hope of anything but more of the turmoil, rampant corruption, and lawlessness that has permiated the region for years.

i am very happy to contradict you on this one:

on the 8th April 2010 a court in Chang Mai sentenced five men to 20 years in jail for the murder of the father of a key member of the yellow shirt People's Alliance for Democracy.

One of the convicted men is the chief security guard of the red shirt Rak Chiang Mai 51 group.

he is Niyom Lueangcharoen, he has jumped bail and remains at large.

Niyom, aka DJ Lae, has been seen on stage at the red rally on 7th April 2010 at Ratchaprasong intersection.

he has been reported as seen to be socialising with Jataporn at the red rally in Bangkok

there is a warrant out for his arrest

red leaders engaged in social intercourse with convicted murderers at peaceful rallies for democracy, whatever next..........?

How can be convicted murderers out on bail?

Sorry, I might be not so clever, but I don't get that.

ok, he was out on bail, he did not attend court, he was convicted in his absence with the other four defendants

his bail has since been revoked and an arrest warrant has been issued for him

[ChiangMaiFun]

Arrest warrants sought for leaders

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Department of Investigation is obtaining arrest warrants for nine leaders of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship for their alleged acts of terrorism during the month long protest of red shirted demonstrators in Bangkok.

Abhisist said two weeks ago, that he had a plan to seperate the terrorists from the red protesters

this is it.

DSI have just received 29million in extra funding

they have done a stirling job so far

in fact i would go as far to say that the DSI have saved Abhisit

its only a matter of time before they round up everyone involved and in true Thai tradition, everyone will inform on each other to try to get out from under the rock and the whole conspiracy will unwind from the bottom up

there may be one or two mysterious disapearances, odd accidents and outright assassinations along the way but once the conspiracy road map is complete, the opposition Phua Thai will be given a choice, get out of politics or go to jail free

same for the rest of the red leaders, they will be told to shut up, quietly fade away or go immediately to jail

if the were foolish enough to try to fight the charges there will be more trials here than Nuremburg, and likely as many public hangings.......

Abhisit and Korn will walk the next election with a landslide

Landslide? let's see...

[elcent]

-- The Nation

Porntip: Troop killed in Don Muang clash not killed by friendly fire

Doctor Porntip Rojanasunan, the director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, announced Tuesday that a troop killed during a clash between troops and protesters on April 28 was not killed by a friendly fire.

Porntip said the ballistic study found that Pvt Narongrit Sala was shot by someone from a building under construction near a petrol station.

The shooter was not on the Don Muang Tollway, Porntip said.

The petrol station was the are where a foreign media captured a man in black with gun.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[timekeeper]

Arrest warrants sought for leaders

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Department of Investigation is obtaining arrest warrants for nine leaders of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship for their alleged acts of terrorism during the month long protest of red shirted demonstrators in Bangkok.

Abhisist said two weeks ago, that he had a plan to seperate the terrorists from the red protesters

this is it.

DSI have just received 29million in extra funding

they have done a stirling job so far

in fact i would go as far to say that the DSI have saved Abhisit

its only a matter of time before they round up everyone involved and in true Thai tradition, everyone will inform on each other to try to get out from under the rock and the whole conspiracy will unwind from the bottom up

there may be one or two mysterious disapearances, odd accidents and outright assassinations along the way but once the conspiracy road map is complete, the opposition Phua Thai will be given a choice, get out of politics or go to jail free

same for the rest of the red leaders, they will be told to shut up, quietly fade away or go immediately to jail

if the were foolish enough to try to fight the charges there will be more trials here than Nuremburg, and likely as many public hangings.......

Abhisit and Korn will walk the next election with a landslide

Landslide? let's see...

ok we'll see what happens but i am certain of this, by the time all the evidence has been amassed by the DSI against the conspirators, they will be merely Abhisit's pawns in the end game

the Dems will get to campaign in red territory because their leaders will tell the local reds to let them do so without any harassment

whatever reasons they give to them to justify it will be up to them to manufacture but the real reason will be because they have been told to do so by Abhisit or they will go to jail on charges of conspiracy to murder, treason, lesse majeste and terrorism

Abhisit is not so meek and mild, to let this opportunity pass him by

the reds 15 minutes of fame is over.........

[landofthefree]

Arrest warrants sought for leaders

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Department of Investigation is obtaining arrest warrants for nine leaders of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship for their alleged acts of terrorism during the month long protest of red shirted demonstrators in Bangkok.

Abhisist said two weeks ago, that he had a plan to seperate the terrorists from the red protesters

this is it.

DSI have just received 29million in extra funding

they have done a stirling job so far

in fact i would go as far to say that the DSI have saved Abhisit

its only a matter of time before they round up everyone involved and in true Thai tradition, everyone will inform on each other to try to get out from under the rock and the whole conspiracy will unwind from the bottom up

there may be one or two mysterious disapearances, odd accidents and outright assassinations along the way but once the conspiracy road map is complete, the opposition Phua Thai will be given a choice, get out of politics or go to jail free

same for the rest of the red leaders, they will be told to shut up, quietly fade away or go immediately to jail

if the were foolish enough to try to fight the charges there will be more trials here than Nuremburg, and likely as many public hangings.......

Abhisit and Korn will walk the next election with a landslide

Landslide? let's see...

ok we'll see what happens but i am certain of this, by the time all the evidence has been amassed by the DSI against the conspirators, they will be merely Abhisit's pawns in the end game

the Dems will get to campaign in red territory because their leaders will tell the local reds to let them do so without any harassment

whatever reasons they give to them to justify it will be up to them to manufacture but the real reason will be because they have been told to do so by Abhisit or they will go to jail on charges of conspiracy to murder, treason, lesse majeste and terrorism

Abhisit is not so meek and mild, to let this opportunity pass him by

the reds 15 minutes of fame is over.........

Sorry to shatter your ilusions but the Reds formerly Thai Rak Thai supporters were the Government in Thailand and the only one that has had a majority and has been reelected in recent years. Do you really think that a military coup will make the electorate change the way that they vote? Pheua Thai will be the new Government and that is why the reds want an election. Do you think they would be calling for an election if they thought they were going to lose?

[timekeeper]

Arrest warrants sought for leaders

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Department of Investigation is obtaining arrest warrants for nine leaders of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship for their alleged acts of terrorism during the month long protest of red shirted demonstrators in Bangkok.

Abhisist said two weeks ago, that he had a plan to seperate the terrorists from the red protesters

this is it.

DSI have just received 29million in extra funding

they have done a stirling job so far

in fact i would go as far to say that the DSI have saved Abhisit

its only a matter of time before they round up everyone involved and in true Thai tradition, everyone will inform on each other to try to get out from under the rock and the whole conspiracy will unwind from the bottom up

there may be one or two mysterious disapearances, odd accidents and outright assassinations along the way but once the conspiracy road map is complete, the opposition Phua Thai will be given a choice, get out of politics or go to jail free

same for the rest of the red leaders, they will be told to shut up, quietly fade away or go immediately to jail

if the were foolish enough to try to fight the charges there will be more trials here than Nuremburg, and likely as many public hangings.......

Abhisit and Korn will walk the next election with a landslide

Landslide? let's see...

ok we'll see what happens but i am certain of this, by the time all the evidence has been amassed by the DSI against the conspirators, they will be merely Abhisit's pawns in the end game

the Dems will get to campaign in red territory because their leaders will tell the local reds to let them do so without any harassment

whatever reasons they give to them to justify it will be up to them to manufacture but the real reason will be because they have been told to do so by Abhisit or they will go to jail on charges of conspiracy to murder, treason, lesse majeste and terrorism

Abhisit is not so meek and mild, to let this opportunity pass him by

the reds 15 minutes of fame is over.........

Sorry to shatter your ilusions but the Reds formerly Thai Rak Thai supporters were the Government in Thailand and the only one that has had a majority and has been reelected in recent years. Do you really think that a military coup will make the electorate change the way that they vote? Pheua Thai will be the new Government and that is why the reds want an election. Do you think they would be calling for an election if they thought they were going to lose?

maybe they thought they would get a new election and that Phua Thai would win that election when they first started this campaign but the playing field has changed significantly now and its too late to back track.

the biggest thing on the red leaders agenda now is self preservation and despite their noisy, conflicting rhetoric to the masses, they will do almost anything to achieve it including opening the door to the Dems to win the next election

its either that or they will be in jail or worse........

[SomTumTiger]

As long as people aren't infringing on others rights, and chucking grenades, I don't give a crap who won. Just get the hel_l out and go farm something.

[midas]

Arrest warrants sought for leaders

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Department of Investigation is obtaining arrest warrants for nine leaders of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship for their alleged acts of terrorism during the month long protest of red shirted demonstrators in Bangkok.

Abhisist said two weeks ago, that he had a plan to seperate the terrorists from the red protesters

this is it.

DSI have just received 29million in extra funding

they have done a stirling job so far

in fact i would go as far to say that the DSI have saved Abhisit

its only a matter of time before they round up everyone involved and in true Thai tradition, everyone will inform on each other to try to get out from under the rock and the whole conspiracy will unwind from the bottom up

there may be one or two mysterious disapearances, odd accidents and outright assassinations along the way but once the conspiracy road map is complete, the opposition Phua Thai will be given a choice, get out of politics or go to jail free

same for the rest of the red leaders, they will be told to shut up, quietly fade away or go immediately to jail

if the were foolish enough to try to fight the charges there will be more trials here than Nuremburg, and likely as many public hangings.......

Abhisit and Korn will walk the next election with a landslide

Landslide? let's see...

ok we'll see what happens but i am certain of this, by the time all the evidence has been amassed by the DSI against the conspirators, they will be merely Abhisit's pawns in the end game

the Dems will get to campaign in red territory because their leaders will tell the local reds to let them do so without any harassment

whatever reasons they give to them to justify it will be up to them to manufacture but the real reason will be because they have been told to do so by Abhisit or they will go to jail on charges of conspiracy to murder, treason, lesse majeste and terrorism

Abhisit is not so meek and mild, to let this opportunity pass him by

the reds 15 minutes of fame is over.........

Sorry to shatter your ilusions but the Reds formerly Thai Rak Thai supporters were the Government in Thailand and the only one that has had a majority and has been reelected in recent years. Do you really think that a military coup will make the electorate change the way that they vote? Pheua Thai will be the new Government and that is why the reds want an election. Do you think they would be calling for an election if they thought they were going to lose?

yes and in those days it was just another boring election -so much appathy. BUT this time around the people of Isaan will

go to cast their votes remembering the 26 people that died in BKK .............so expect an even bigger majority this time .

[noahvail]

Sorry to shatter your ilusions but the Reds formerly Thai Rak Thai supporters were the Government in Thailand and the only one that has had a majority and has been reelected in recent years. Do you really think that a military coup will make the electorate change the way that they vote? Pheua Thai will be the new Government and that is why the reds want an election. Do you think they would be calling for an election if they thought they were going to lose?

I think there is a strong possibility that they would call for a general election - knowing they would lose.

It's called a self-destruct mode.

If the red shirt leaders on stage in BKK cannot lead by consensus, never mind by a semblance of democracy (remember Weng rejecting out of hand, the PM's offer, during televised negotiations? - he made a unilateral decision without consultation), how could they come together long enough to be a cohesive voice during an election process?

Remember Seh Daeng countermanding the decisions of the rest of the red shirt leaders when it came to the barricades after the Chula hospital fiasco?

Remember Jutaporn directly contradicting Veera on stage?

In your favour, though, I will admit that the reds withdrew their motion for a no-confidence vote against the PM in Parliament. There, they knew they could not win, even when they were at their strongest point of the rebellion.

So perhaps there is hope for your side. Perhaps there are enough voices of reason within the red shirt leaders to actually come out on top of the election (not win, no way, but come out on top and have to form a coalition government, as we have now).

Frankly, I doubt it. If 70% of the red shirts at the protest site were from BKK, as claimed, then a few weeks ago there were 21,000 BKK red shirts present (30,000 x 70%). Now, there are about 2,100 showing up (3,000 x 70%). Why is it that the other 19,000 can no longer be bothered to take a short BTS ride to the protest? Is it possible that the leadership has alienated so many thousands of the former followers?

[noahvail]

yes and in those days it was just another boring election -so much appathy. BUT this time around the people of Isaan will

go to cast their votes remembering the 26 people that died in BKK .............so expect an even bigger majority this time .

I have no doubt that the people of Issan will remember their fallen comrades for a very long time. But the people of Issan are not stupid, and they will remember the vitriolic words and actions of their leaders for just as long.

I live pretty much in the heart of Issan, in what was termed red shirt country. I'm fortunate to have made many friends and good acquaintances here. Before the rally, virtually everyone was a vocal supporter of the red shirts; there were a few older people who still flew the flag of the King. I kept a neutral stance - until the hospital fiasco turned me anti-red.

Now, the farmers, workers, and shopkeepers whom I know have returned from BKK disillusioned, angry with their 'leadership' and exceptionally angry with the storming of the Chula hospital. They are now, in some cases, very vocally against the reds.

Instead of seeing 30 pickup trucks go by each day with red ribbons on their aerials, there are only about three or four each day. To me, that is a very telling number who have removed their outward signs of support.

I now ask them how they will vote: their response, generally, is now "for Mr Abhisit." There are some who say "I don't know." Fair enough. That's what a free election is about - the ability of each voter to cast his/her vote as they see it.

And before the flames start, yes, I am aware that mine is only anecdotal evidence from that which I have observed. Actually, I have sugar-coated it a bit, because even though I've seen hatred and disgust on the faces of my friends toward the reds, I wouldn't say that because too many red shirt apologists would jump all over me for that.

[pornsasi]

Arrest warrants sought for leaders

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Department of Investigation is obtaining arrest warrants for nine leaders of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship for their alleged acts of terrorism during the month long protest of red shirted demonstrators in Bangkok.

Abhisist said two weeks ago, that he had a plan to seperate the terrorists from the red protesters

this is it.

DSI have just received 29million in extra funding

they have done a stirling job so far

in fact i would go as far to say that the DSI have saved Abhisit

its only a matter of time before they round up everyone involved and in true Thai tradition, everyone will inform on each other to try to get out from under the rock and the whole conspiracy will unwind from the bottom up

there may be one or two mysterious disapearances, odd accidents and outright assassinations along the way but once the conspiracy road map is complete, the opposition Phua Thai will be given a choice, get out of politics or go to jail free

same for the rest of the red leaders, they will be told to shut up, quietly fade away or go immediately to jail

if the were foolish enough to try to fight the charges there will be more trials here than Nuremburg, and likely as many public hangings.......

Abhisit and Korn will walk the next election with a landslide

Short of putting the opposition in jail , an idiotic idea sorry to say , its by no mean certain that Abhisit or the dems

will win the next election (by winning i mean a dem dominated coalition coming to power) i dont mean an absolute majority .

In fact most analysts agree that if Abhisit remain as unpopular in North and Central Thailand as he is now , he

is likely to loose .

Maybe if he has enough MPs and all his coalition partners stay with him he may win . Thats an iffy proposition and again

recipe for unstability (thaksin was the only PM in what ? 50 years to serve a full term) which says a whole lot on the stupidity

of the half digested parlementary system a la british currently in use .

[jcbangkok]

i wonder if this is considered a win and the Red protestors will get their ID cards back and get paid for their efforts?

i heard they would only get paid by Thaksin if Abhisit was forced out and the house dissolved....

i bet there's many a red in Bangkok wondering exactly the same thing.........

Source please?

So, basically it was a commission only gig.

[Thai at Heart]

Arrest warrants sought for leaders

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Department of Investigation is obtaining arrest warrants for nine leaders of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship for their alleged acts of terrorism during the month long protest of red shirted demonstrators in Bangkok.

Abhisist said two weeks ago, that he had a plan to seperate the terrorists from the red protesters

this is it.

DSI have just received 29million in extra funding

they have done a stirling job so far

in fact i would go as far to say that the DSI have saved Abhisit

its only a matter of time before they round up everyone involved and in true Thai tradition, everyone will inform on each other to try to get out from under the rock and the whole conspiracy will unwind from the bottom up

there may be one or two mysterious disapearances, odd accidents and outright assassinations along the way but once the conspiracy road map is complete, the opposition Phua Thai will be given a choice, get out of politics or go to jail free

same for the rest of the red leaders, they will be told to shut up, quietly fade away or go immediately to jail

if the were foolish enough to try to fight the charges there will be more trials here than Nuremburg, and likely as many public hangings.......

Abhisit and Korn will walk the next election with a landslide

Short of putting the opposition in jail , an idiotic idea sorry to say , its by no mean certain that Abhisit or the dems

will win the next election (by winning i mean a dem dominated coalition coming to power) i dont mean an absolute majority .

In fact most analysts agree that if Abhisit remain as unpopular in North and Central Thailand as he is now , he

is likely to loose .

Maybe if he has enough MPs and all his coalition partners stay with him he may win . Thats an iffy proposition and again

recipe for unstability (thaksin was the only PM in what ? 50 years to serve a full term) which says a whole lot on the stupidity

of the half digested parlementary system a la british currently in use .

In this situation, I don't expect the Dems to be able to make any significant gains in the traditionally 'red' areas. The dems never really had any support there, and it will remain that way.

I had an interesting conversation with someone the other day who was possibly the most fervent pro-Thaksin person I have ever met. He is a businessman in one of the business areas around Bangkok. He would be the perfect example of an SME owner. He explained to me that once the parliament changed hands to be the dems, he was being offered all sorts of access to business, but with huge (30%) under the table payments to various government people. When asked if this was the case under TRT/PPP he explained no. He explained to me that their way was to siphon off major government contracts whilst, under the dems the system was to siphon from local business.

I didn't buy his line hook and sinker but he was absolutely convinced that this was the case. So, it would appear in his eyes that as long as the PPP people were paid from skimming major government deals through the party network he didn't care as long as it meant that the PPP reps weren't trying to skim too much from local business. He was convinced that the Dems have never cared for the little man in their entire political history and that this perception will prevent the Dems from ever winning a majority in an election.

[whybother]

So now I'm trying to work out who Abhisit is a puppet of, as stated by most red supporters on here for the last 8 weeks.

He can't be part of "Team Yellow". They seem to be very much against his road map.

He isn't being controlled by Newin, since the coalition parties haven't been part of the Road Map discussion, and most of the Democrats haven't been either.

He can't be controlled by the army, since they are divided anyway, aren't they?

He wants to make sure the reds don't get their hands on the next leader of the army, therefore ensuring we don't have a taste of Red Democracy.

Part of his road map is to change the constitution with input from all parties, not just politicians, and not only his side.

HE seems to be in control of where things are going now.

Just a thought, but maybe he's working for the good of all Thais and all Thailand.

[lannarebirth]

So now I'm trying to work out who Abhisit is a puppet of, as stated by most red supporters on here for the last 8 weeks.

He can't be part of "Team Yellow". They seem to be very much against his road map.

He isn't being controlled by Newin, since the coalition parties haven't been part of the Road Map discussion, and most of the Democrats haven't been either.

He can't be controlled by the army, since they are divided anyway, aren't they?

He wants to make sure the reds don't get their hands on the next leader of the army, therefore ensuring we don't have a taste of Red Democracy.

Part of his road map is to change the constitution with input from all parties, not just politicians, and not only his side.

HE seems to be in control of where things are going now.

Just a thought, but maybe he's working for the good of all Thais and all Thailand.

He seems to be calling the shots, but it remains to be seen if he is "in control". I think the public are the only ones behind him right now and I'm not sure if those sentiments will be enough to swing "stakeholders" over to his side. Let's hope.

[Redsunset]

This is the stupidest Thai soap opera in Thailand history.

I can't believe Abhisit sets down five generalities with no specifics that everyone on this planet would agree to - "motherhood and apple pie" and the red shirts agree to it and decide they might end the rally.

What Abhisit proposed is like the Declaration of Independence. They are truths any moron would agree to.

Fact is, he will not leave the country and he will not dissolve the House immediately. So the red shirts have LOST if they accept his offer.

This is ridiculous

[otherstuff1957]

This is the stupidest Thai soap opera in Thailand history.

I can't believe Abhisit sets down five generalities with no specifics that everyone on this planet would agree to - "motherhood and apple pie" and the red shirts agree to it and decide they might end the rally.

What Abhisit proposed is like the Declaration of Independence. They are truths any moron would agree to.

Fact is, he will not leave the country and he will not dissolve the House immediately. So the red shirts have LOST if they accept his offer.

This is ridiculous

So you're disappointed with a negotiated compromise (early elections) and the strong possibility of no further bloodshed?

I can't figure out of Abhisit just stumbled though this or if his largely non-violent reaction to the Reds was strategic. Either way, I'm glad that a workable compromise seems possible and that we didn't "slide into civil war". I know that a lot of the more warlike posters here (on both sides) will be disappointed that there was neither a revolution nor a crackdown (aside from April 10) but, quite frankly, violence would have solved nothing and just led to deepening divisions and future problems. Now, hopefully we can have an open and fair election.

Edited May 5, 2010 by otherstuff1957

[jcbangkok]

According to the Thai Constitution ...

The dissolution of the House of Representatives shall be made in the form of a Royal Decree in which the day for a new general election must be fixed for not less than forty-five days but not more than sixty days as from the day the House of Representatives has been dissolved and such election day must be the same throughout the Kingdom.

Red mob leaders appear to be waiving the flag of ignorance, which seems to be standard operation procedures for the red mob leaders, in demanding a date be set for house dissolution. The constitution seems extremely clear there is only a 15 day window. So, if the reds stop harming Thailand and its people, the elections will go fwd on the 14th which means house dissolution will happen mid to late September and it would seem very likely to be the end of September to minimize the dissolution period. Bottom line they seem overly concerned about 15 days.

And it is completely idiotic for them to believe any specific date given for house dissolution would hold any more weight than the proposed date for elections.

In other words ... it is very clear they are stalling and once again being dishonest to their followers of their true motivations. According to quotes from red followers today, at least some, seem to be under the impression house dissolution can still happen very soon (well before mid September).

Some comments from the red mob ...

Protester within group said, "I will not go home until the PM officially announces that he will dissolve the House. I don't want him to play tricks with us."

54yearold man from Nonthaburi, who wished to remain unnamed, said he wanted immediate dissolution of the House

"We are now waiting for announcement of House dissolution. The prime minister may announce it soon and we will get to go home," Veera told the crowd at Rajprasong.

I personally hope and wish the house dissolution could happen a day before elections but according the constitution, that cannot happen. But this is Thailand and maybe they will change the constitution before then but I now question the need to do this given a better understanding of how dissolution works.

[johncat1]

"Thai Red Shirts accept roadmap but refuse to go home "

Q. I wonder why they don't want to go home?

A. They have a better standard of living in Bangkok than on their farms

If they return home now they may have to work for a living instead of living off Thaksins handouts

They know it is rice planting season and that is hard work

REDS THE PARTY IS OVER !! GO HOME AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR FAMILIES

[paulbkk]

Personally, i think this is the first positive sign for an end so far. I hope it works and Thailand can move forward. Its stressful for all concerned. I also have to comment, that normally i only read the live updates, cos some people opinions on these topics annoy me and probably alot of other people too. There seems to be alot of know it all farangs posting crap about Thailand. We are mearly guests in this country. Yet people seem to have some very extreme opinions about this situation. We all have our opinions sure. But we are not Thai. We can provide encouragement and advice. Not slag off this and that person who are involved in this political crisis. I have been here for 12 years and know to keep my mouth shut on things like this. This is a very positive sign for everyone. A civil war and violence is a real possible event that might happen. So, if the reds do accept this and go home. DEE MAK MAK

[SpoliaOpima]

"Thai Red Shirts accept roadmap but refuse to go home "

Q. I wonder why they don't want to go home?

A. They have a better standard of living in Bangkok than on their farms

If they return home now they may have to work for a living instead of living off Thaksins handouts

They know it is rice planting season and that is hard work

REDS THE PARTY IS OVER !! GO HOME AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR FAMILIES

My sentiments exactly. I live in the neighbourhood they have taken hostage. I'm tired of seeing signs like 'No democracy in Thailand.' Am tempted to post my own saying, 'No democracy in Chidlom!' since obviously our voice doesn't count even though we outnumber the squatters. But I know I'd get beat up after posting it - so much for freedom of speech.

[bangkokrick]

"Thai Red Shirts accept roadmap but refuse to go home "

Q. I wonder why they don't want to go home?

A. They have a better standard of living in Bangkok than on their farms

If they return home now they may have to work for a living instead of living off Thaksins handouts

They know it is rice planting season and that is hard work

REDS THE PARTY IS OVER !! GO HOME AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR FAMILIES

I don't think that they are being allowed to go home until the red leaders say so. They first need to get back their ID cards and probably the money that they earned from taking part in the protest.

Cheers, Rick

[xminator]

There is a small possibility that the Red leaders are just a tiny bit reserved of taking anything that come from the government as truth. What legal consequence would it have for Abhisit if he start postponing the dissolution? None. He and the coalition control the majority in parliament, and thats it.

Of course the red leaders can go home, and watch the government launch a propaganda war when we get closer to september. There WILL be "incidents" when the army reshuffle is completed, enough for Mark to put on his most sincere face on all NBT stations interrupting whatever soap might be playing and announce that due to national unrest there will be no new elections. Then we're back to march and red shirts on the streets again.

Alternatives? We might see Constitution Court dissolve the Democrats somewhere between end of May until start of August. The first case is already accepted there, the second will be passed to Attorney General for inspection before sent to Constitution Court. This will see Abhisit banned from politics for 5 years. Along with a handfull of other Democrat leaders. It will not be the exodus that PT experienced, but the government have to step down. We might see the MPs from Democrats split into two camps, new politics party and a New Democrats (or whatever they chose to call themself, it wont be anything that says "socialist" as those names are banned by EC...). Then follows a few weeks where the opposition parties will be courted by PT and "new" Democrats - much like what happend in 2008, and there is two possible outcomes. A new government led by former Democrats, or a new government led by PT. PT will not dissolve house. They will use government power to reinstate the 97 constitution, or at least seriously amend the 2007 constitution.

If a PT led government try to change the constitution I expect another round of PAD/Yellow/Pink/Alliance protests. Same if we have elections this november and PT win. I hope I'm wrong and that PAD lack the popular support they did have after the last election. If the constitution is changed by PT it also increases the risk of another coup as the coup junta lose their immunity.

[Steely Dan]

This is the stupidest Thai soap opera in Thailand history.

I can't believe Abhisit sets down five generalities with no specifics that everyone on this planet would agree to - "motherhood and apple pie" and the red shirts agree to it and decide they might end the rally.

What Abhisit proposed is like the Declaration of Independence. They are truths any moron would agree to.

Fact is, he will not leave the country and he will not dissolve the House immediately. So the red shirts have LOST if they accept his offer.

This is ridiculous

So you're disappointed with a negotiated compromise (early elections) and the strong possibility of no further bloodshed?

I can't figure out of Abhisit just stumbled though this or if his largely non-violent reaction to the Reds was strategic. Either way, I'm glad that a workable compromise seems possible and that we didn't "slide into civil war". I know that a lot of the more warlike posters here (on both sides) will be disappointed that there was neither a revolution nor a crackdown (aside from April 10) but, quite frankly, violence would have solved nothing and just led to deepening divisions and future problems. Now, hopefully we can have an open and fair election.

Abhisit could have been more proactive in nipping the protests in the bud, but when it became clear that the Reds contained elements with the sole intention of causing a massacre he then played a blinder. Consider this; the police were neither use nor ornament and Thaksin had probably bought elements within the army making it very difficult for Abhisit to remove the reds by force. Nevertheless by handing control to the army chief was imho diplomatic code telling the army to show it's true colours.

Since then with Thaksin in twitter-mode The red leadership lost coordination and made several mistakes alienating many hundreds of thousands of people. With a new head honcho for the army likely to be anti-Thaksin and an ill (or dead?) Thaksin less able to bankroll the mass intimidation and vote buying I would bet a fair few people in the north decide to vote against the red stazi, we shall see.

[midas]

There is a small possibility that the Red leaders are just a tiny bit reserved of taking anything that come from the government as truth. What legal consequence would it have for Abhisit if he start postponing the dissolution? None. He and the coalition control the majority in parliament, and thats it.

Of course the red leaders can go home, and watch the government launch a propaganda war when we get closer to september. There WILL be "incidents" when the army reshuffle is completed, enough for Mark to put on his most sincere face on all NBT stations interrupting whatever soap might be playing and announce that due to national unrest there will be no new elections. Then we're back to march and red shirts on the streets again.

.

This was abundantly clear to me from the moment is was announced and yet when the reds started by seeking assurances, the government supporters immediately started with cries of “ why dont they just go home “ and “ the reds are not being serious “.

Apart from that the PM may not even have the proper authority to promise all this yet so its understandable the reds are treading carefully :-

NNT 2010-05-05

“BANGKOK (NNT) -- The ruling Democrat Party has admitted disunity among its own party members in agreement towards the reconciliation roadmap proposed by Prime Minister and Democrat Party Leader Abhisit Vejjajiva.

Spokesperson to the Democrat Party Leader, Thepthai Senpong, stated that not all party members agree with the reconciliation roadmap. “

Edited May 5, 2010 by midas

[plachon]

"Thai Red Shirts accept roadmap but refuse to go home "

Q. I wonder why they don't want to go home?

A. They have a better standard of living in Bangkok than on their farms

If they return home now they may have to work for a living instead of living off Thaksins handouts

They know it is rice planting season and that is hard work

REDS THE PARTY IS OVER !! GO HOME AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR FAMILIES

I don't think that they are being allowed to go home until the red leaders say so. They first need to get back their ID cards and probably the money that they earned from taking part in the protest.

Cheers, Rick

Close, but not quite the full picture me guesses....

Veera Musikapong was quoted as saying something v. interesting in today's press. See below, just lifted from Webfact's newstories of the day.........

In a light-hearted address to the crowd, Veera said the protesters would not remain forever in Bangkok's retail heartland, which has been crippled by eight weeks of rallies that have triggered deadly unrest.

"We will not stay here until we obtain the land title deed," he joked.

"But it seems some of you are reluctant to go home, like the freed birds around the temple of the Emerald Buddha," he added, referring to the Buddhist practice of releasing caged birds.

Now, I read this as the rank and file Red protesters he views as being like the caged sparrows and swallows on sale outside temples, that when one opens the door to freedom they stay put or when one throws them in the air to fly away from their cage, they alight nearby, confounding the idea that they would want to escape far and fast.

Could this mean, then, that Veera has cynically been using psych-ops Redshirt style on the simple Reds to imprison them in a virtual prison (cage) of their own making (i.e. the bamboo and tyre barricades) and now when it is time to let them go, they are reluctant to fly "home". For those sleeping on the pavements for the past 8 weeks and been subjected to 24/7 Red propaganda blaring at them, and given free food and foot massages, with handouts galore, then it is somewhat understandable that central BKK has become home. For many, I'd hazard a guess, may not have a job or close knit family like the Red community to go to and removed from the crutch of welfare will struggle to adapt in the "real world" of making a living and not lounging around all day listening to hatred-filled speeches and sharpening bamboo poles to kill time.

There is also the possiblity that many were expecting big payouts from Thaksin's largesse as the payment for sweating on the streets these past weeks and are reluctant to give up on the dream that there is not some massive pot of Redgold at the end of the toxic rainbow. Similarly, judging from the experiences of the lads from Pichit who had to go cap in hand to the Democrat Party to ask for a ticket home as the Redshirt leaders had taken their ID cards and not delivered on daily payments for attendance, then there's more than a few who are waiting for their cards to be returned.

All in all, this means that it is the end of the dream for the Reds that there really is a tooth fairy, Elvis really is not dead and Thaksin will come down in his private jet and start doling out fistfuls of moolah to anyone wearing a redshirt. Sad day for the Reds, especially when they realise their hero has ball cancer and maybe not long for this mortal coil.