Thailand's Yellow-Shirts Call For PM Abhisit To Stand Down

[cheguevara]

Yeah good question, why are the reds still running around free.

The yellow shirts were out after 30 minutes. Do you honestly believe the red shirts will be out in the same time when they turn themselves in?

[lazurus]

<snip>

As you see, red isn't so much different from yellow in the way they operate. So my question, why are one group allowed to run around freely while the other is being charged with terrorism?

How many times do you have to be told?

The yellows have been charged and are waiting for court proceedings.

That is exactly they same thing that will happen with most of the reds.

Since 2 years? And why were they not charged with terrorism? Abhisit has clearly said that the red shirts will be charged with terrorism because they entered government house for 30 minutes. The PAD were there for 8 months ...but no terrorism charges?

Even Che can probably think of a few other things the reds have done that warrant terrorism charges. Even their leaders claimed to be eager to have their day in court. Did the PAD enter government house?

Edited May 7, 2010 by lazurus

[MandoDog]

The People's Alliance for Democracy on Friday reaffirmed its opposition to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's reconciliation plan and called for the military to declare the martial law in Bangkok.

Does anybody else find this to be hilarious?

[cheguevara]

The People's Alliance for Democracy on Friday reaffirmed its opposition to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's reconciliation plan and called for the military to declare the martial law in Bangkok.

Does anybody else find this to be hilarious?

What I find even more hilarious is that an "Alliance for Democracy" is against holding Elections. Clearly shows their true intentions, doesn't it?

[lazurus]

The People's Alliance for Democracy on Friday reaffirmed its opposition to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's reconciliation plan and called for the military to declare the martial law in Bangkok.

Does anybody else find this to be hilarious?

What I find even more hilarious is that an "Alliance for Democracy" is against holding Elections. Clearly shows their true intentions, doesn't it?

The UDD have yet to agree to the plan that would give them elections they could win, shows their true intentions, doesn't it?

[cheguevara]

The People's Alliance for Democracy on Friday reaffirmed its opposition to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's reconciliation plan and called for the military to declare the martial law in Bangkok.

Does anybody else find this to be hilarious?

What I find even more hilarious is that an "Alliance for Democracy" is against holding Elections. Clearly shows their true intentions, doesn't it?

The UDD have yet to agree to the plan that would give them elections they could win, shows their true intentions, doesn't it?

According to current news, the UDD will agree today at 6pm and disperse by May 10th.

Looks like its the yellow's turn to play monkeys.

[rabo]

<snip>

As you see, red isn't so much different from yellow in the way they operate. So my question, why are one group allowed to run around freely while the other is being charged with terrorism?

How many times do you have to be told?

The yellows have been charged and are waiting for court proceedings.

That is exactly they same thing that will happen with most of the reds.

Since 2 years? And why were they not charged with terrorism? Abhisit has clearly said that the red shirts will be charged with terrorism because they entered government house for 30 minutes. The PAD were there for 8 months ...but no terrorism charges?

Because unlike the red-shirts, the yellows did not use grenades, plastic explosives, and RPG rockets to destroy the country's infrastructure, possess a trained militant wing led by a general, and publicly call for the burning of buildings and destruction of BTS stations.

The yellows entered the restricted zone in the airport, without boarding passes? (just guessing here).

Edited May 7, 2010 by rabo

[whybother]

According to current news, the UDD will agree today at 6pm and disperse by May 10th.

Looks like its the yellow's turn to play monkeys.

And further to that:

THE NATION: Urgent, Kwanchai said redshirt leaders agree to end the rally on May 10 though some reds want to stay on.

Based on some discussions on this thread, that means that the reds leaders don't really agree, because some of their supporters want to stay on.

edit: if you missed it, some say that because the PAD disagree with the road map, then Abhisit be serious about it.

Edited May 7, 2010 by whybother

[vinceentz]

"Some men aren't looking for anything logical.

They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with.

Some men just want to watch the world burn."

Works for both Reds and Yellows.... Sadly....

Let's have that election and hope that no matter who "looses" they'll understand the fundamentals of democracy and accept defeat without creating more violence.

[lazurus]

According to current news, the UDD will agree today at 6pm and disperse by May 10th.

Looks like its the yellow's turn to play monkeys.

And further to that:

THE NATION: Urgent, Kwanchai said redshirt leaders agree to end the rally on May 10 though some reds want to stay on.

Based on some discussions on this thread, that means that the reds leaders don't really agree, because some of their supporters want to stay on.

edit: if you missed it, some say that because the PAD disagree with the road map, then Abhisit be serious about it.

One thing is certain from the reds announcements today, no one knows when they are going to leave. Some say monday, some want to stay, tomorrow they are launching their own roadmap, maybe they want the emergency decree lifted first. Sounds like they want to keep playing games. And it's not nice to call them monkeys Che, the reds have feelings, and once the red leaders tell them what their feelings are they might get upset.

[way2muchcoffee]

So why aren't the yellow shirts in prison for terrorism charges? Taking over 2 international airports is terrorism. Holding government house hostage for 8 months with armed guards is terrorism.

1) During the yellow shirt demonstrations the red shirts came out and attacked them several times. This was the first violence to occur.

2) There was an injunction against the government at the time. The courts ruled that the government could not disperse the demonstrators from GH as up until that time the only violence to occur was when red shirts attacked PAD. So as far as Government House is concerned, they PAD were there legally.

3) There were grenade bombings of the PAD camp almost nightly for several weeks. These attacks are widely beloved to come from Seh Daeng's crew. Seh Daeng had threatened grenade attacks shortly before the grenades started flying. The PAD did do some damage during their occupation and several items went missing. Charges have been filed and the court cases are ongoing.

4) The PAD were in violation of the law when they blocked parliament. The police attempted to disperse them, killing some demonstrators and injuring many. Charges have been filed against the PAD leaders for this and the cases are ongoing in the court system.

5) The video evidence you are seeing of PAD violence was instigated by red shirts. There were gangs of red shirts looking for blood. This was gang warfare. The PAD guards responded to the violence and so both sides were committing illegal violent acts towards each other. The PAD never resorted to grenades. No red shirts were killed, while several PAD were killed.

6) The airport is an interesting case. The airport was taken non-violently. AOT closed the airport during a peaceful PAD demonstration. The PAD stayed on after AOT made the decision to close the airport. This is not a clear cut case of the PAD closing the airport, however their demonstration at the airport was illegal and the court cases are in process as we speak.

7) The case of the murdered PAD guard remains a mystery. Nobody knows who killed him or how he died.

I suspect you know all of this already Che, but you continue to post inane questions. Why is this? Do you have some kind of political agenda? Why are you trying to spread misinformation?

Edited May 7, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[way2muchcoffee]

The time ran out on me during an edit. There are some corrections.

Numbers two and three should read as follows:

2) There was an injunction against the government at the time. The courts ruled that the government could not disperse the demonstrators from GH as up until that time the only violence to occur was when red shirts attacked PAD. So as far as Government House is concerned, they PAD were there legally. The PAD did do some damage during their occupation and several items went missing. Charges have been filed and the court cases are ongoing.

3) There were grenade bombings of the PAD camp almost nightly for several weeks. These attacks are widely beloved to come from Seh Daeng's crew. Seh Daeng had threatened grenade attacks shortly before the grenades started flying. No charges have been filed for the multiple grenade attacks on the PAD camp.

Edited May 7, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[KASABIAN]

^^ Brilliant! One of the grammar police caught with his pants down using spell check.

[cheguevara]

So why aren't the yellow shirts in prison for terrorism charges? Taking over 2 international airports is terrorism. Holding government house hostage for 8 months with armed guards is terrorism.

1) During the yellow shirt demonstrations the red shirts came out and attacked them several times. This was the first violence to occur.

2) There was an injunction against the government at the time. The courts ruled that the government could not disperse the demonstrators from GH as up until that time the only violence to occur was when red shirts attacked PAD. So as far as Government House is concerned, they PAD were there legally.

3) There were grenade bombings of the PAD camp almost nightly for several weeks. These attacks are widely beloved to come from Seh Daeng's crew. Seh Daeng had threatened grenade attacks shortly before the grenades started flying. The PAD did do some damage during their occupation and several items went missing. Charges have been filed and the court cases are ongoing.

4) The PAD were in violation of the law when they blocked parliament. The police attempted to disperse them, killing some demonstrators and injuring many. Charges have been filed against the PAD leaders for this and the cases are ongoing in the court system.

5) The video evidence you are seeing of PAD violence was instigated by red shirts. There were gangs of red shirts looking for blood. This was gang warfare. The PAD guards responded to the violence and so both sides were committing illegal violent acts towards each other. The PAD never resorted to grenades. No red shirts were killed, while several PAD were killed.

6) The airport is an interesting case. The airport was taken non-violently. AOT closed the airport during a peaceful PAD demonstration. The PAD stayed on after AOT made the decision to close the airport. This is not a clear cut case of the PAD closing the airport, however their demonstration at the airport was illegal and the court cases are in process as we speak.

7) The case of the murdered PAD guard remains a mystery. Nobody knows who killed him or how he died.

I suspect you know all of this already Che, but you continue to post inane questions. Why is this? Do you have some kind of political agenda? Why are you trying to spread misinformation?

How do you know that the grenade attacks were launched by red shirts? There is no proof, just allegations and speculations at this point. Couldn't it have been just as well a yellow shirt launching the grenades to later accuse the red shirts of doing it? I'm not saying it was yellow or red.

Your suggestion of the court cases against the yellow shirts still going on are ridiculous. The court cases are all but dead and will never reach a verdict. Or do you think a group of red shirts could today take over the airport, hold it hostage for 10 days, cause billions in losses and then walk out of the police station after 30 minutes, and 2 years later still not be sentenced? And the PAD were armed when they took over the airports. It wasn't all "peaceful". There are plenty of photos of them standing around with handguns and rifles guarding the airport entrances. An armed group, taking over an international airport, in order to overthrow a democratically elected government. If that doesn't qualify as terrorism, I don't know what does, I'm sorry.

Double standards, my friend. Anyone believing otherwise belongs in Disneyland.

[way2muchcoffee]

How do you know that the grenade attacks were launched by red shirts? There is no proof, just allegations and speculations at this point. Couldn't it have been just as well a yellow shirt launching the grenades to later accuse the red shirts of doing it? I'm not saying it was yellow or red.

How do I know it was the red shirts? I don't. I know who I believe is most likely to have done it. You know who you believe is most likely to have done it. The balance of circumstances would suggest red shirts or the allies, but neither of us knows for sure. We will all have to wait until charges are levied, followed by a court case and a verdict. It is also possible that we will never know for sure.

Your suggestion of the court cases against the yellow shirts still going on are ridiculous. The court cases are all but dead and will never reach a verdict. Or do you think a group of red shirts could today take over the airport, hold it hostage for 10 days, cause billions in losses and then walk out of the police station after 30 minutes, and 2 years later still not be sentenced? And the PAD were armed when they took over the airports. It wasn't all "peaceful". There are plenty of photos of them standing around with handguns and rifles guarding the airport entrances. An armed group, taking over an international airport, in order to overthrow a democratically elected government. If that doesn't qualify as terrorism, I don't know what does, I'm sorry.

I don't support the PAD. I think their leaders should be jailed just like the red shirt leaders. I believe the crimes of the red shirt leaders are more severe, but that both groups of leaders deserve significant jail time. Given how things go here though I doubt many on either side will see much time inside a jail. There may be a few fall guys from lower levels in the hierarchy, and one or two higher-ups may pull a Thaksin and abscond, but that will probably be the extent of it.

I don't think Kasit should face any criminal charges in the same way that I don't think PTP politicians who spoke on red stages once or twice should face criminal charges for that alone. They are deserving of censure though, and they should certainly not be in any cabinet position now or after the next election.

Double standards, my friend. Anyone believing otherwise belongs in Disneyland.

Nope. I don't think so. Those who committed crimes should pay, be they yellow, red, blue, green, brown, pink, multi-colored, orange, or no color at all. I'll leave it up to the judiciary to weigh the specific crime in each individual case and assess fair punishment, though what I think will actually happen I have already mentioned above.

Edited May 7, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[SPIKECM]

Nonsense? Oh, sorry. Its parliamentary democracy at work is it? I see. Except the whole problem is actually quite simple. Democracy will wipe away power from the yellows. You know this obviously. Sticking in the adjective though seems to do away with the idea that the people in a one man, one vote, democracy don't want who is governing them. Parliamentary democracy stuck Apisit is his position of power but he is not there through the popular vote. This is the crux of the wider political problem in Thailand. Democracy is the threat to the Bangkok business elite, representled by Apisit.

Thailand has gone through a massive period of economic prosperity and the poor have had little share. The trickle down theory of wealth really doesn't work too well for your average Thai. Once supply of labour looks low, they just bring in the Burmese. Cheap labour is what the economy is based on in Thailand, but the problem is that Thaksin has been the catalyst for what may well be a people's revolution in this country. The disparity of income in Thailand has been an ignored issue in Thailand for too long. It is almost unique to Thailand, how so much extreme wealth has been rubbed in the faces of the poor for so long and seemingly without envy.

The weakness of the system for the yellows is that Thailand is indeed a parliamentary democracy. They may use this to legitimise their power right now, but their problem is the word "democracy". The Bangkok elite never were comfortable at all that Issan peasants have as much right to vote as they have, but they previously managed to get round that. They now complain about vote buying as there is now a box to tick that was never there before. That is what's new in Thailand. My point was (and just wait to see if it is nonsense or not) is that the old ruling elite have really nowhere to go now in a democratic Thailand. They don't just fear the people's vote; they know it is their end.

I fear what may lie ahead, as it may well turn out worse for the average Thai, but the old Bangkok business elite "had it cummin" for a long time. Their greed turned into blind arrogance and their present arrogant hold to power can only be held in the long term without parliamentary democracy; not because of it.

Aphisit was elected in the 2007 polls as a member of parliament and the leader of the democrats. When the PPP violated the election laws the other parties formed a coalition and a new government was formed. That's how parliamentary democracy works. I suggest you look it up before posting anymore nonsense. The Yellows are upset that the PM is caving in to the reds. The reds can't be trusted to follow through on any requirements of the roadmap. They certainly won't surrender on the 15th.

Part of democracy is not being forced into having elections and everyone waiting until they are actually due.

[yoshiwara]

So why aren't the yellow shirts in prison for terrorism charges? Taking over 2 international airports is terrorism. Holding government house hostage for 8 months with armed guards is terrorism.

1) During the yellow shirt demonstrations the red shirts came out and attacked them several times. This was the first violence to occur.

2) There was an injunction against the government at the time. The courts ruled that the government could not disperse the demonstrators from GH as up until that time the only violence to occur was when red shirts attacked PAD. So as far as Government House is concerned, they PAD were there legally.

3) There were grenade bombings of the PAD camp almost nightly for several weeks. These attacks are widely beloved to come from Seh Daeng's crew. Seh Daeng had threatened grenade attacks shortly before the grenades started flying. The PAD did do some damage during their occupation and several items went missing. Charges have been filed and the court cases are ongoing.

4) The PAD were in violation of the law when they blocked parliament. The police attempted to disperse them, killing some demonstrators and injuring many. Charges have been filed against the PAD leaders for this and the cases are ongoing in the court system.

5) The video evidence you are seeing of PAD violence was instigated by red shirts. There were gangs of red shirts looking for blood. This was gang warfare. The PAD guards responded to the violence and so both sides were committing illegal violent acts towards each other. The PAD never resorted to grenades. No red shirts were killed, while several PAD were killed.

6) The airport is an interesting case. The airport was taken non-violently. AOT closed the airport during a peaceful PAD demonstration. The PAD stayed on after AOT made the decision to close the airport. This is not a clear cut case of the PAD closing the airport, however their demonstration at the airport was illegal and the court cases are in process as we speak.

7) The case of the murdered PAD guard remains a mystery. Nobody knows who killed him or how he died.

I suspect you know all of this already Che, but you continue to post inane questions. Why is this? Do you have some kind of political agenda? Why are you trying to spread misinformation?

How do you know that the grenade attacks were launched by red shirts? There is no proof, just allegations and speculations at this point. Couldn't it have been just as well a yellow shirt launching the grenades to later accuse the red shirts of doing it? I'm not saying it was yellow or red.

Your suggestion of the court cases against the yellow shirts still going on are ridiculous. The court cases are all but dead and will never reach a verdict. Or do you think a group of red shirts could today take over the airport, hold it hostage for 10 days, cause billions in losses and then walk out of the police station after 30 minutes, and 2 years later still not be sentenced? And the PAD were armed when they took over the airports. It wasn't all "peaceful". There are plenty of photos of them standing around with handguns and rifles guarding the airport entrances. An armed group, taking over an international airport, in order to overthrow a democratically elected government. If that doesn't qualify as terrorism, I don't know what does, I'm sorry.

Double standards, my friend. Anyone believing otherwise belongs in Disneyland.

Anyone with a Che Guevara logo accusing others of living in a Disneyland gives us all a laugh.

Particularly when all red violence is either shrugged off or denied.

[mavup]

<snip>

As you see, red isn't so much different from yellow in the way they operate. So my question, why are one group allowed to run around freely while the other is being charged with terrorism?

How many times do you have to be told?

The yellows have been charged and are waiting for court proceedings.

That is exactly they same thing that will happen with most of the reds.

Since 2 years?

So what? We're still waiting as various red leaders have been out on bail for 3 years since leading the bloody attack in front of Prem's house that injured hundreds.

Edited May 8, 2010 by mavup

[selftaopath]

It will never end.

I agree. I feel strongly that NO has not been taught in Lack of Sanctions (LOS). If it was then people might not like the outcome of ????? elections, but would accept NO. You did not win etc. Or NO it is against the law........or NO you do not qualify for that position/grade etc etc etc. GEEZE

[way2muchcoffee]

It will never end.

I agree. I feel strongly that NO has not been taught in Lack of Sanctions (LOS). If it was then people might not like the outcome of ????? elections, but would accept NO. You did not win etc. Or NO it is against the law........or NO you do not qualify for that position/grade etc etc etc. GEEZE

You might be on to something. They do have 'not yes', which doesn't seem to be the same thing. No is just too harsh and confrontational. We see this inability to say or accept NO starting very young in the way children are raised. Also in schools we see this. Teachers are prevented from disciplining a misbehaving child, or handing out failing grades that the students clearly earned by their complete lack of effort. Now Thailand certainly isn't unique in this. It has been a disturbing trend across the world, and the consequences are becoming obvious.

Edited May 9, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[selftaopath]

Maybe form a new party of Reds and Yellows, call it the People Alliance for International Democracy... or P.A.I.D....

LOVE IT. Hope it sticks.

Thanks

[silk]

What? You mean we're actually going to have an election? You could see why the Alliance for Democracy would be against that! The PAD realizes, they will lose... again. They realize that their only chance of being in power was to get Abhisit in power without a real election, and now he wants to give up power? This is an outrage! My guess is a couple weeks after the elections the yellows will be camping out in the city, and we can rinse and repeat.

I feel bad for Abhisit. He's in a tough position. The old power figures refuse to give it up, or to compromise in any way. This deal was a compromise, both sides had to give something. He's turned away the people who put him in power though by doing so. Still, kudos for trying. I get the feeling the yellows would have much rather he just plow over the Reds with tanks, ala Tiananmen Square, to put those "poor uneducated peasants" in their place. The first step for change in Thailand, will be teaching both sides the rules of compromise.

Absolutely right "RULES OF CPMPROMISE" have to be thaught and respected

[SpoliaOpima]

I guess you dont understand the red shirts are fighting for a voice in their country/

The yellow shirts have taken control of this country and have left the poor holding an empty bag!

The RED shirts are patriots most of them are 100 per cent Thai!

While the yellow shirts have a significant percentage of Chinese blood!

That sounds rather racist. Who cares what percentage of blood is 'Thai'? Most of the redshirts in Bangkok have Lao and Cambodian blood, for that matter. Who cares?

[SpoliaOpima]

Now I am sure that many of you who did not understand before are getting a more complete picture....

The Yellow shirts the minority by far will not relinquish control to the red shirts who are a majority of this country's population.

The Yellow shirts know that they can not win an election....

The Red shirts know that who ever they elect will get thrown out for a multitude of reasons...

Where do you get you information? Polls show about 1 in 3 Thais support the Reds, 1 in 3 the Yellows the other third have no affiliation.

[sbk]

Off topic trollish and inflammatory posts are being deleted. Posters will not receive notification and breaches of the rules will result in immediate suspension.

Please use the report button to notify moderators on duty to inflammatory posts

[bapak]

Officers from the Thung Mahamek police station used an arrest warrant to put Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdiphol under police detention at the Vajira Hospital.

He was arrested on charges of terrorism.

The Nation

Oh, what brave police. Where have they been for the past few weeks? Most likely a reward for the police who served the warrant.

[eggomaniac]

....Sondhi Limthongkul behind the steering wheel again...

LaoPo

EGGsactly!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Election-Yea...it-t370328.html

Edited May 30, 2010 by eggomaniac

[animatic]

....Sondhi Limthongkul behind the steering wheel again...

LaoPo

EGGsactly!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Election-Yea...it-t370328.html

You credit him with power he has never possesed.