Red-Shirt Leaders To Spell Out Conditions In Joining Peace Process

[TonyH]

"Somchai claims Thaksin supports peace plan

Former Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat claimed Monday that his brother-in-law, former PM Thaksin Shinawatra supported the peace plan offered by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

He said he and Thaksin would like the reconciliation process to start".

Who the fuc_k cares what Taksin thinks, he's a bloody criminal along with most of the red shirts.

[Crushdepth]

Personally, i think it is shameful that people who ive as guests in a country to take sides and exhibit their (mostly) european elitist prejudices ike these anti red bloggers do

Oh give it a rest with the 'guest' treatment. I think its shameful that some people use that as an excuse to turn a blind eye ti corrupt, criminal and unethical behaviour. The international community needs to resist evil and we are part of that. Don't imagine you improve the situation by sticking your head in the sand.

[TonyH]

THE NATION: @ktnews: Seh Daeng: I've talked to Thaksin. Rally will go on with "2nd generation leaders" named -Kwanchai, Arisman, Suporn, Vaipoj

THE NATION: Seh Daeng to red leaders: "If u want to leave, leave. We don't care."

I guess the militant members of the movement aren't eager to go to prison. The main leaders are ready to leave they have lots to lose by staying on. They could easily get themselves elected in November and get in on the gravy train of Thai politics. The second tier leadership seems less than happy to take the fall for all the bad stuff they've done. The real reds and the fake reds seem to have a serious problem, by setting a date for the end of the protest the top leaders will reveal that they have lost control. Nice to see them sniping at each other for a change.

Yes they seem to be behaving like a pack of street dogs.

[Jimi007]

THE NATION: Seh Daeng to red leaders: "If u want to leave, leave. We don't care."

But will he let them go....... alive?

If they do want to leave they will surely want to try to co-operate with authorities to try to reduce or minamise any 'time' they may get and that will mean spilling the beans, kao dom and anything else they know.

At least one of them has already been locked up and probably wont want the experience again.

Give us amnesty and we will give you everything you need to hang the others.

Looks like some of the old red shirt leaders have already left:

THE NATION: Seh Daeng: Veera, Weng, Nuttawut and Wisa went to negotiate at the 11th Infantry and agreed to put 'hard-core' reds in jails. -NNA

But do I believe anything Seh Daeng says??

[Samuian]

Their "Conditions" - it's like the guy's who occupied Stanfield-Runway are telling the UK Government what to do and by what rules to play - it's Terrorism, Dictate, an extortion attempt, no many in a row - these guys are doing all this what they are accusing their chosen foes of!

Well, what they are told to say.... I guess..

[Silurian]

Somchai claims Thaksin supports peace plan

Former Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat claimed Monday that his brother-in-law, former PM Thaksin Shinawatra supported the peace plan offered by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

He said he and Thaksin would like the reconciliation process to start.

-- The Nation 2010-05-10

THE NATION: @ktnews: Seh Daeng: I've talked to Thaksin. Rally will go on with "2nd generation leaders" named -Kwanchai, Arisman, Suporn, Vaipoj

So which way is it? Does Thaksin want the peace plan to fail or succeed? So confusing.

Oh I forgot, Thaksin isn't really in charge so none of this matters anyway, right?

[Insight]

Somchai claims Thaksin supports peace plan

Former Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat claimed Monday that his brother-in-law, former PM Thaksin Shinawatra supported the peace plan offered by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

He said he and Thaksin would like the reconciliation process to start.

-- The Nation 2010-05-10

THE NATION: @ktnews: Seh Daeng: I've talked to Thaksin. Rally will go on with "2nd generation leaders" named -Kwanchai, Arisman, Suporn, Vaipoj

So which way is it? Does Thaksin want the peace plan to fail or succeed? So confusing.

Oh I forgot, Thaksin isn't really in charge so none of this matters anyway, right?

More fuel earlier this morning:

Thaksin via twitter: Reds at rally have longer vision than leaders, want justice and democracy; can't decide for them if they don't agree

[earthpig]

Personally, i think it is shameful that people who ive as guests in a country to take sides and exhibit their (mostly) european elitist prejudices ike these anti red bloggers do

Oh give it a rest with the 'guest' treatment. I think its shameful that some people use that as an excuse to turn a blind eye ti corrupt, criminal and unethical behaviour. The international community needs to resist evil and we are part of that. Don't imagine you improve the situation by sticking your head in the sand.

Interesting thoughts.

If it is really true that the international community needs to "resist evil", then one needs to be consistent in that view. Was the coup that deposed an elected government here not wrong? (Does it REALLY make me an apologist for the Reds to keep asking this question?)

And if perchance you agree, then what exactly is wrong with the red demand that elections come quickly? The government has cut one full year off their original timetable and should be congratulated for this.

Oh, you dont like the fact that the reds are exacting economic pain on others? Well, that's exaclty what Gandhi and Martin Luther King did, if that thought makes u feel any better. And what the Yellows did. But regardless of whether u think its right or wrong, it a thai issue, not one for arrogant europeans to judge.

The problem with your appeal to resisting evil is that one man's evil is another man's justice. Its tough enough to deal with this when one is a local. We shouldnt be apologists for one side or the other. But yes, i agree we shouldnt stick our heads in the sand either, particularly if we live here.

And one way to do that is to call out bloggers here who are baying for red blood, or who call some of the thais who host them "kwai" and other disgusting names. These are bitter comments by bitter people.

[Roadman]

OK, so what about this scenario. The reds split. The relatively more moderate leaders accept the roadmap. The hard core radical Thaksin/Seh Daeng led insurgents stay to continue their occupation Bangkok. Then can't the government go in against the more radical faction? In such a scenario, it isn't the reds anymore. Its the TWO reds.

The break is finally coming which will please Pinnochio but will need the resolve of Anapoung to do what has to be done. I don't think its two reds. The Blacks became very apparent when they took out Colonel Romklao "Pao" Thuwatham's command on Black Saturday. If the genuine Reds who are stepping up to the plate for democracy via the roadmap walk from the site then those that chose to stay know that to do so is choosing the final solution. The Black Scum of Thaksin are identified along with the paid Thaksins goons. At that point the government and Army have to be ruthless and hit the Black scum with everything they have at whatever the cost, because that is what Say Dung intends to do back for the piece of scum overseas. Anybody who still thinks Thaksin or his buddies are good for Thailand are seriously deluded.

[earthpig]

...the government and Army have to be ruthless and hit the Black scum with everything they have at whatever the cost...

Crushdepth,

Rambo Roadman provides a sweet example of what i was refering to in my last post.

[pedro01]

TAN Network: Nutthawut denies rumors the three ringleaders have been removed

BANGKOK: -- Red-shirt leaders have called off their daily press conference today to discuss their official reaction to the government's proposed peace road map as the premier has insisted terrorism charges against them will not be lifted.

We Love Udon group head and red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana criticized Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's five-point reconciliation plan, calling it insincere and unclear.

Kwanchai stated that he and his fellow red-shirt leaders have been unable to agree on their official response to the plan.

I guess the original 3 stooges have sore throats then and can't speak right now...

[lannarebirth]

I'm not hinting at a conspiracy here - the photos of Thaksin and Seh Daeng in Dubai are enough evidence for me and it's great the way he's implicating Thaksin as the true thug he really is - but why does Seh Daeng make such an effort to sound like some B-Movie Villain? It's amazing it wins support of anybody over the age of 12...

Yeah, you see what I was getting at, or my wife rather. It's bizarre behaviour unless the intent is to look as culpable as possible and throw a spanner in the works..

[ChiangMaiFun]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...nd-t363547.html

Read it and weep as they say, or laught for you red supporters.

Seems they have no intention of going, "we will leave on Monday" another lie detected.

And 2 more bombings last night, Dont even you reds on here think its getting a bit much.

Which Monday?

How can you tell if a red leader is lying? His lips are moving.

How can you tell if a yellow government is lying? they go on TV

[ChiangMaiFun]

Reds would want a general amnesty as their leadership is a nest of criminals.

So was Gandhi and Martin Luther King. That what happens in political protests cum revolts. People break the law to gain what they perceive to be social justice. You are free to not agree with the Red aims. But what the reds are doing hardly makes them common criminals; these people are not pick pockets.

This is a political problem and the best way forward at this stage is an amnesty in order to bring resolution of this matter to the only place where it can be resolved, the ballot box.

and one should consider: if no amnesty, then what?

what many posters who are anti amnesty really want is a blood bath.

todays terrorist is tomorrows 'respected statesman' - doubt it? South Africa? Northern Ireland? Libya? Do I need to go on? no thought not... job done - case proven.

[Jimi007]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...nd-t363547.html

Read it and weep as they say, or laught for you red supporters.

Seems they have no intention of going, "we will leave on Monday" another lie detected.

And 2 more bombings last night, Dont even you reds on here think its getting a bit much.

Which Monday?

How can you tell if a red leader is lying? His lips are moving.

How can you tell if a yellow government is lying? they go on TV

Are you referring to television or Thai Visa.com? And now the the lawful government is "yellow?" Hmm, I guess it is as they didn't stop this ongoing; "protest" in the first place! Spineless? Or prudent? I wonder what Thaksin would have done if faced with anarchists? I can venture a guess. But I am not a fortune teller, Thaksin already has a few!

[gregb]

If it is really true that the international community needs to "resist evil", then one needs to be consistent in that view. Was the coup that deposed an elected government here not wrong? (Does it REALLY make me an apologist for the Reds to keep asking this question?)

Yes, the coup was not wrong. Thaksin eviscerated the democratic institutions of the country. Thaksin bribed and intimidated the judges to remain in power in 2001. The coup was the only way to bring an evil criminal to justice after he had destroyed all the other means.

Yes, resisting evil and supporting democracy where the rule of law is supreme means supporting the coup and supporting the people who tried to restore the rule of law. It means resisting the reds who are trying to usurp the rule of law through tyranny of the majority.

Yes, you are an apologist to the reds to keep asking the question. The coup had nothing to do with disenfranchising voters. That is red propaganda. It was done for the pure and simple reason of bringing a criminal to justice. The military quickly plugged the holes Thaksin was using to commit his attrocities, and quickly returned control to the populace.

I hope now that you have an answer you can finally stop asking that question.

[warfie]

Does anyone else find it ironic that Sah Daeng is claiming that Thaksin wants to dictate the who leads of this movement which is supposedly "Democracy against Dictatorship"?

[ChiangMaiFun]

How can you tell if a red leader is lying? His lips are moving.

How can you tell if a yellow government is lying? they go on TV

Are you referring to television or Thai Visa.com? And now the the lawful government is "yellow?" Hmm, I guess it is as they didn't stop this ongoing; "protest" in the first place! Spineless? Or prudent? I wonder what Thaksin would have done if faced with anarchists? I can venture a guess. But I am not a fortune teller, Thaksin already has a few!

Television - referring to yellow 'leaders' not 'apologists' anyway I was poking fun at the other posters simplistic 'playground' comment

[earthpig]

If it is really true that the international community needs to "resist evil", then one needs to be consistent in that view. Was the coup that deposed an elected government here not wrong? (Does it REALLY make me an apologist for the Reds to keep asking this question?)

Yes, resisting evil and supporting democracy where the rule of law is supreme means supporting the coup and supporting the people who tried to restore the rule of law. It means resisting the reds who are trying to usurp the rule of law through tyranny of the majority.

what u call "tyranny of the majority" most civilized people call democracy.

you hail those who used UNLAWFUL means to restore the rule of law. to you and your ilk, the means justify the ends.

it is precisely what hitler claimed of his 1923 putsch.

in fact, your pro coup position can only imply two things: you respect neither majority rule nor the rule of law.

what you are in effect advocating is violence to achieve your objective, which is the tyranny of the minority over the issan untermensch. this is the real agenda of the anti red european brown shirts who blog here.

[ozzieman05]

Somchai claims Thaksin supports peace plan

Former Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat claimed Monday that his brother-in-law, former PM Thaksin Shinawatra supported the peace plan offered by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

He said he and Thaksin would like the reconciliation process to start.

-- The Nation 2010-05-10

THE NATION: @ktnews: Seh Daeng: I've talked to Thaksin. Rally will go on with "2nd generation leaders" named -Kwanchai, Arisman, Suporn, Vaipoj

So which way is it? Does Thaksin want the peace plan to fail or succeed? So confusing.

Oh I forgot, Thaksin isn't really in charge so none of this matters anyway, right?

Thaskin maybe just seeing the protest did not work

and he has left hime self wide open

so best

plan is

I think the peace plane is good

this is all I wanted all the time

Thaskin Jai Dee

[Pi Sek]

Personally, i think it is shameful that people who ive as guests in a country to take sides and exhibit their (mostly) european elitist prejudices ike these anti red bloggers do

Oh give it a rest with the 'guest' treatment. I think its shameful that some people use that as an excuse to turn a blind eye ti corrupt, criminal and unethical behaviour. The international community needs to resist evil and we are part of that. Don't imagine you improve the situation by sticking your head in the sand.

Interesting thoughts.

If it is really true that the international community needs to "resist evil", then one needs to be consistent in that view. Was the coup that deposed an elected government here not wrong? (Does it REALLY make me an apologist for the Reds to keep asking this question?)

And if perchance you agree, then what exactly is wrong with the red demand that elections come quickly? The government has cut one full year off their original timetable and should be congratulated for this.

Oh, you dont like the fact that the reds are exacting economic pain on others? Well, that's exaclty what Gandhi and Martin Luther King did, if that thought makes u feel any better. And what the Yellows did. But regardless of whether u think its right or wrong, it a thai issue, not one for arrogant europeans to judge.

The problem with your appeal to resisting evil is that one man's evil is another man's justice. Its tough enough to deal with this when one is a local. We shouldnt be apologists for one side or the other. But yes, i agree we shouldnt stick our heads in the sand either, particularly if we live here.

And one way to do that is to call out bloggers here who are baying for red blood, or who call some of the thais who host them "kwai" and other disgusting names. These are bitter comments by bitter people.

Well, in answer to your first question: yes, the coup was wrong, but it was less wrong than allowing Thaksin to continue raping the country. Unfortunately noone had any better ideas.

The situation is different in this case because Abhisit is actually addressing the issues that the Red Shirts are protesting about; whereas Thaksin & TRT were literally changing the Law, doing a blatantly corrupt deal, and then changing the Law back!

RE: Gandhi etc, yeah I suppose I get that. But again, Gandhi actually stood for something. Each day that passes is showing that the Red Shirt protests are nothing to due with democracy, the good of the country and civic duty.

I agree that calling the Reds "khwai daeng" and so on is wrong - but the Reds themselves are making it a more and more common expression.

[ozzieman05]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...nd-t363547.html

Read it and weep as they say, or laught for you red supporters.

Seems they have no intention of going, "we will leave on Monday" another lie detected.

And 2 more bombings last night, Dont even you reds on here think its getting a bit much.

Which Monday?

How can you tell if a red leader is lying? His lips are moving.

How can you tell if a yellow government is lying? they go on TV

True

I remember when Thaskin wore Yellow

and he is one big lier

oops sorry back to my box

[ozzieman05]

Does anyone else find it ironic that Sah Daeng is claiming that Thaksin wants to dictate the who leads of this movement which is supposedly "Democracy against Dictatorship"?

OOOpps

all this time iI thought it was Democracy for a Dictator

[Neurath]

Didn't know the Red Shirts could spell.

[Who, me ?]

So, Reds have been offered a good option, and a good way out of this crisis. Now they drag feet, and want to include their conditions, and still occupy Ratchprasong with no intention to leave. They asked for more protesters to join.....We are even not sure about who is in charge, who has now the power to make a decision.

Now, how long will this situation last? What else does the government need?

When will life be back to almost normal in Bangkok?

[chantorn]

Reds would want a general amnesty as their leadership is a nest of criminals.

So was Gandhi and Martin Luther King. That what happens in political protests cum revolts. People break the law to gain what they perceive to be social justice. You are free to not agree with the Red aims. But what the reds are doing hardly makes them common criminals; these people are not pick pockets.

This is a political problem and the best way forward at this stage is an amnesty in order to bring resolution of this matter to the only place where it can be resolved, the ballot box.

and one should consider: if no amnesty, then what?

what many posters who are anti amnesty really want is a blood bath.

todays terrorist is tomorrows 'respected statesman' - doubt it? South Africa? Northern Ireland? Libya? Do I need to go on? no thought not... job done - case proven.

What finally happens to both Gandhi and Martin Luther King?

They were both shot dead.

[OzMick]

If it is really true that the international community needs to "resist evil", then one needs to be consistent in that view. Was the coup that deposed an elected government here not wrong? (Does it REALLY make me an apologist for the Reds to keep asking this question?)

Yes, resisting evil and supporting democracy where the rule of law is supreme means supporting the coup and supporting the people who tried to restore the rule of law. It means resisting the reds who are trying to usurp the rule of law through tyranny of the majority.

what u call "tyranny of the majority" most civilized people call democracy.

you hail those who used UNLAWFUL means to restore the rule of law. to you and your ilk, the means justify the ends.

it is precisely what hitler claimed of his 1923 putsch.

in fact, your pro coup position can only imply two things: you respect neither majority rule nor the rule of law.

what you are in effect advocating is violence to achieve your objective, which is the tyranny of the minority over the issan untermensch. this is the real agenda of the anti red european brown shirts who blog here.

Your simplistic version of democracy seems to be based on "majority rules." Unfortunately, you overlook the fact that TRT, and its mongrel offspring, never achieved a majority, even when they were practicing obvious electoral fraud. This makes the rest of your rant look a little silly.

Democracy is a complex subject, but one of the main tenets is the separation of the powers of the legislative, judiciary and enforcement arms. If not kept well separated, democracy can all too easily slip into dictatorship. By his actions this is exactly what Thaksin was attempting before the coup, appointing cronies and family to positions of power, and creating law specifically for his own financial gain.

At the time of the coup he was NOT the PM, having resigned, and elections were well overdue. Your parallels to the 1923 putsch are baseless - this was not a power grab but the halting of one in progress.

I applauded it at the time as being bloodless, but in hindsight, I wish they had shot the b@st@rd.

Also, please do not refer to all expatriates as "european", it is at least inaccurate and at worst, insulting.

[Jimi007]

Does anyone else find it ironic that Sah Daeng is claiming that Thaksin wants to dictate the who leads of this movement which is supposedly "Democracy against Dictatorship"?

I find it to be an oxymoron! It seems to be one of my favorite words these days! My oldest oxymoron that I remember was, and is still true today is: Army Intelligence? But then I'm just a wee bit cynical!

Typo

Edited May 10, 2010 by Jimi007

[Jimi007]

If it is really true that the international community needs to "resist evil", then one needs to be consistent in that view. Was the coup that deposed an elected government here not wrong? (Does it REALLY make me an apologist for the Reds to keep asking this question?)

Yes, resisting evil and supporting democracy where the rule of law is supreme means supporting the coup and supporting the people who tried to restore the rule of law. It means resisting the reds who are trying to usurp the rule of law through tyranny of the majority.

what u call "tyranny of the majority" most civilized people call democracy.

you hail those who used UNLAWFUL means to restore the rule of law. to you and your ilk, the means justify the ends.

it is precisely what hitler claimed of his 1923 putsch.

in fact, your pro coup position can only imply two things: you respect neither majority rule nor the rule of law.

what you are in effect advocating is violence to achieve your objective, which is the tyranny of the minority over the issan untermensch. this is the real agenda of the anti red european brown shirts who blog here.

Your simplistic version of democracy seems to be based on "majority rules." Unfortunately, you overlook the fact that TRT, and its mongrel offspring, never achieved a majority, even when they were practicing obvious electoral fraud. This makes the rest of your rant look a little silly.

Democracy is a complex subject, but one of the main tenets is the separation of the powers of the legislative, judiciary and enforcement arms. If not kept well separated, democracy can all too easily slip into dictatorship. By his actions this is exactly what Thaksin was attempting before the coup, appointing cronies and family to positions of power, and creating law specifically for his own financial gain.

At the time of the coup he was NOT the PM, having resigned, and elections were well overdue. Your parallels to the 1923 putsch are baseless - this was not a power grab but the halting of one in progress.

I applauded it at the time as being bloodless, but in hindsight, I wish they had shot the b@st@rd.

Also, please do not refer to all expatriates as "european", it is at least inaccurate and at worst, insulting.

OzMick, I agree with everything you have just written! And I even post where I live and where I'm from. I didn't burn my bridges and run from my responsibilities in my home country! Still have a home there in case of emergency!

Cheers!

[gregb]

you hail those who used UNLAWFUL means to restore the rule of law

At least we both agree that Thaksin destroyed the rule of law, and the coup was used to restore it.

That is a start.