The Rural Poor Of Thailand... Some Surprises

[freemind1]

why a man that had the same opportunities than the other would barely make a living while the later

will progress without any limits.....

self motivation and perseverance is certainly the main factor between these 2 individuals

you don't need to stay in thailand to see this....back home, people that stay where there is no work

might end-up with a more miserable life than many thai not willing to find an answer to their problems...

trying to grow tomatoes in winter...is a bit harder then in a hot country...

[chops]

QUOTE: To the American, the Thai seems impoverished, his house appalling basic, his expectations in life distressingly limited. But the Thai carpenter probably lives on family land rent-free, pays nothing to moderate the climate, produces his own vegetables, chickens, eggs and pork, and rides his own motor-cycle to his jobs. He's seen the American lifestyle on TV, and it's so far beyond the range of his experience, he doesn't feel deprived or envious. QUOTE

I don't think anybody in developing countries are envious of American lifestyles these days.

[rijb]

Here, the locals watch Thai soaps. They see Bangkok lifestyles. And Korean on weekends.

[giddyup]

One of the problems for the poor people in Thailand is that they do not want to show that they are poor. If someone dies in the family they have to make a large party for maybe one week in order to show they can and in order to collect as much merit for the dead as possible. In order to hold the party they have to borrow money at the local loan shark at 10 % interest per month. It is the same with weddings, monkhood etc. Of course some of the money comes in again from gifts from the guests. Another large expense is contributions to the temples. They cannot just give 20 baht, they have to give 100, 200 or more not to loose face and to gain more merit. As the OP indicated rural life in Thailand is not so bad, luckily most people own a little land and can live on that combined with some work. As far as I see the major problem is that they are often in deep debt to loan sharks.

Talking of temple donations.. my GF has just given 10,000 baht to the temple in her village. I asked her if she didn't think the money would be better spent if it went to an orphanage or some other charity. Her response is that everyone in the village will know the money came from her, in fact her name will be displayed in the temple somewhere along with the amount of donation. It's all about creating an impression of wealth.

[xthAi76s]

QUOTE: To the American, the Thai seems impoverished, his house appalling basic, his expectations in life distressingly limited. But the Thai carpenter probably lives on family land rent-free, pays nothing to moderate the climate, produces his own vegetables, chickens, eggs and pork, and rides his own motor-cycle to his jobs. He's seen the American lifestyle on TV, and it's so far beyond the range of his experience, he doesn't feel deprived or envious. QUOTE

I don't think anybody in developing countries are envious of American lifestyles these days.

lol -- Funny, but I think you'll find that being 'poor' and down-and-out just about anywhere in America is going to be rather nice for the majority of people in Thailand from both the lower and middle classes.

[Trembly]

How does getting together with a farang make the family a winner? My partner got so sick of her family's constant bitching about a continuing hand-out, the mother's piece of sin-sod, and so many other ao-bpriap moments, that she couldn't take it anymore (kriat mahk mahk, sia jai). She kicked them out of our home and changed her phone number. I have felt this way for some time, but this is something she needed to learn and realize for herself.

I also resent being labeled as an inferior option from an alternative occupation. We met purely by chance, and have stayed together through hard work & patience & survival from a lot of stressful situations, not because she sold her soul. She has had a tough life and showed a lot of guts to go off and try to make her way in a strange country. She is a great girl and a good mother with a kind heart. She deserves a guy like me and I deserve a girl like her.

So take your flawed and offensive generalities and stuff 'em up where the sun doesn't shine.

Relax hombre, generalisations are true in general.

In general, Thais don't speak very good English.

In general, farangs don't speak very good Thai.

In general, people want to be able to communicate meaningfully with their partners along with all of the usual requirements.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Trembly

[Thongkorn]

I wounder how many members of Thai Visa have actual Lived in the Jungles of Thailand and seen the poverty. I have lived in the Jungles of South Thailand for months, They have what they can get from the Jungle. We made a house from bamboo, we ate bamboo, tools where made from it, implements where made from it, mainly because its there in abundance, They did not have any money, they lived from their skills and whit, They had nothing, but they where most giving people i have known. They did not think they where poor, they just knew they where happy. So how do you define poor.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Thongkorn

[tartempion]

This thread is headed "The rural poor of Thailand"

I live amongst the Rural poor and so I do not agree with much of this article.

+1

Yep, I see families eating khao niauw with leaves from the trees, no money for meat, catch a fish or kill a chicken sometimes

They did have a few baht lately because they (bought?) chicken carcasses, crashed them with a bat and grilled the bones.

Aroy maak maak!

When I first travelled across Thailand by bus I was convinced by experiment that all Thais were well fed: indeed at main bus stops people would enter the bus and sell food, all passengers did buy food, thus all Thais can afford food all day long;

Living in a village I discovered that not all Thais have money (and desire/need) to take a bus somewhere

[TommoPhysicist]

Sounds like a super optimistic article to me. The 13 to 14 years of education? Where did that number come from? It must have been written by a Bangkok elite and designed to sooth his conscience..

And yet currently only 20% of Thais graduate from Highschool (5 years ago it was only 5%)

[zzaa09]

Relax hombre, generalisations are true in general.

In general, Thais don't speak very good English.

In general, farangs don't speak very good Thai.

In general, people want to be able to communicate meaningfully with their partners along with all of the usual requirements.

Seem to have this textbook of predictability down pat - like most.

Yet, nothing is ever the same twice.

[bangkokrick]

This article was written by Robert Woodrow and ripped from his blog. Nothing to do with the OP. Woodrow has interviewed numerous past Thai PM's

[Trembly]

Relax hombre, generalisations are true in general.

In general, Thais don't speak very good English.

In general, farangs don't speak very good Thai.

In general, people want to be able to communicate meaningfully with their partners along with all of the usual requirements.

Seem to have this textbook of predictability down pat - like most.

Yet, nothing is ever the same twice.

I don't understand.

[jamescollister]

I live in a remote village, probably one of the most isolated farangs in Thailand. People do eat things that would turn peoples stomachs, but that's what they are used to. Wife's Aunt, a well to do Thai comes to visit from BKK and all she wants is bugs, sticky rice, frogs and som tam [issan style.]

Kids get free milk at school and kindergarten and are fed lunch. The government gives free fingerling's [fish] each year, chickens are everywhere. there are fish in the rice paddies. If someone falls on hard times the family helps or they go to the local wat for food, no one goes hungry and no one is sleeping under a bridge. They may be cash poor, but life is not a 50 hour working week and in debt for 35 years paying for a home. Really who has a better life, if you think that assets and status count, then they are poor. If you think that happiness and long term security, home, food and family are the most important, then they are rich. Jim

[somchai69]

And when the monsoon rains fail...............

Not such a rosey picture.

Photos courtesy of Wikipedia

[canuckamuck]

I have been to several villages that aren't on the power grid. Most farmers I know are deeply in debt and borrow every year to plant the next crop. Having a second hand Honda Dream is hardly a financial achievement. Quite a few people in my village can't even afford to pour a cement floor for their hut which often is a single room dwelling with a fire pit in the center. My mother in law spent a week collecting grass, dried it, and prepared it to make brooms. She made 5 dollars. Paved roads are nice, but they are only an inch thick and frequently wash away or disappear into a plain of muddy holes.

People don't starve here because there is lots of food and the weather is hot but mild mannered. Most of the money in the GDP is controlled by a very small group. Yes you can prove Thailand is in the upper reaches of the developing world, but there are very few true statements in the OP.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Sounds like a super optimistic article to me. The 13 to 14 years of education? Where did that number come from? It must have been written by a Bangkok elite and designed to sooth his conscience..

And yet currently only 20% of Thais graduate from Highschool (5 years ago it was only 5%)

And I'd really like to see an urban vs rural breakdown, never mind "high school" (is M6 considered "graduating"?) but even to 14-15, definitely a small fraction in my experience.

The article is definitely an over-optimistic whitewash.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I live in a remote village, probably one of the most isolated farangs in Thailand. People do eat things that would turn peoples stomachs, but that's what they are used to. Wife's Aunt, a well to do Thai comes to visit from BKK and all she wants is bugs, sticky rice, frogs and som tam [issan style.]

Kids get free milk at school and kindergarten and are fed lunch. The government gives free fingerling's [fish] each year, chickens are everywhere. there are fish in the rice paddies. If someone falls on hard times the family helps or they go to the local wat for food, no one goes hungry and no one is sleeping under a bridge. They may be cash poor, but life is not a 50 hour working week and in debt for 35 years paying for a home. Really who has a better life, if you think that assets and status count, then they are poor. If you think that happiness and long term security, home, food and family are the most important, then they are rich. Jim

I wholeheartedly agree, but am afraid that television and the Internet are making short work of this attitude among the younger generations, they want in on the consumerist rat race and all the mod cons.

How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm / After they've seen Paree'

[jamescollister]

I live in a remote village, probably one of the most isolated farangs in Thailand. People do eat things that would turn peoples stomachs, but that's what they are used to. Wife's Aunt, a well to do Thai comes to visit from BKK and all she wants is bugs, sticky rice, frogs and som tam [issan style.]

Kids get free milk at school and kindergarten and are fed lunch. The government gives free fingerling's [fish] each year, chickens are everywhere. there are fish in the rice paddies. If someone falls on hard times the family helps or they go to the local wat for food, no one goes hungry and no one is sleeping under a bridge. They may be cash poor, but life is not a 50 hour working week and in debt for 35 years paying for a home. Really who has a better life, if you think that assets and status count, then they are poor. If you think that happiness and long term security, home, food and family are the most important, then they are rich. Jim

I wholeheartedly agree, but am afraid that television and the Internet are making short work of this attitude among the younger generations, they want in on the consumerist rat race and all the mod cons.

How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm / After they've seen Paree'

You are right on the TV, things are changing fast and most of my village would give a kidney for a car. I tell them you don't understand how it all works. If you want western things you have to work and work hard and long. They seem to think that the soap operas and western TV are real. Feel sorry that they will end up selling their land and end up as paid employees rather then happy live in the moment people, Their choice. Jim

[jamescollister]

I have been to several villages that aren't on the power grid. Most farmers I know are deeply in debt and borrow every year to plant the next crop. Having a second hand Honda Dream is hardly a financial achievement. Quite a few people in my village can't even afford to pour a cement floor for their hut which often is a single room dwelling with a fire pit in the center. My mother in law spent a week collecting grass, dried it, and prepared it to make brooms. She made 5 dollars. Paved roads are nice, but they are only an inch thick and frequently wash away or disappear into a plain of muddy holes.

People don't starve here because there is lots of food and the weather is hot but mild mannered. Most of the money in the GDP is controlled by a very small group. Yes you can prove Thailand is in the upper reaches of the developing world, but there are very few true statements in the OP.

Where are you, never seen a fire pit in a house, everyone cooks outside. Most of the older homes here are stilt houses, no need for concrete floor. We have had electricity for years and I though I was about as far away from anything in Thailand as you could get. Jim

[aussiebebe]

Respect to the OP for his post. I've lived in Bangkok for six years and never been to a rural village. I've holidayed in Chiangmai, Samet (a lot), Phuket, Pattaya (too much) and Samui but never been to a real rural village, I've no idea what it's like and don't want to find out but I'll take the OP's word for it that it's better than Nigeria!

Cheers

[canuckamuck]

I have been to several villages that aren't on the power grid. Most farmers I know are deeply in debt and borrow every year to plant the next crop. Having a second hand Honda Dream is hardly a financial achievement. Quite a few people in my village can't even afford to pour a cement floor for their hut which often is a single room dwelling with a fire pit in the center. My mother in law spent a week collecting grass, dried it, and prepared it to make brooms. She made 5 dollars. Paved roads are nice, but they are only an inch thick and frequently wash away or disappear into a plain of muddy holes.

People don't starve here because there is lots of food and the weather is hot but mild mannered. Most of the money in the GDP is controlled by a very small group. Yes you can prove Thailand is in the upper reaches of the developing world, but there are very few true statements in the OP.

Where are you, never seen a fire pit in a house, everyone cooks outside. Most of the older homes here are stilt houses, no need for concrete floor. We have had electricity for years and I though I was about as far away from anything in Thailand as you could get. Jim

I have even seen fire pits on the floor in stilt houses with thatch roofs and bamboo floors, in fact there is one like that four houses down from me. I would say stilt houses make up half of this village. People cook outside and inside at the same time, depending on what they cook. Even my wife cooks on the open fire outside occasionally, even though we have a stove, oven, microwave, and BBQ. And often they cook on the fire pit which is inside her mother's house that (wait for it) is on the ground with no concrete floor, about 4 meters from my house. I am in Chiang Rai province, between Doi Chang and Wawee. But I have seen similar villages here and in Mae Hong son, and Chiang Mai province.

Firepits in the house are useful in cold season when your altitude is 700 meters+

[jamescollister]

I have been to several villages that aren't on the power grid. Most farmers I know are deeply in debt and borrow every year to plant the next crop. Having a second hand Honda Dream is hardly a financial achievement. Quite a few people in my village can't even afford to pour a cement floor for their hut which often is a single room dwelling with a fire pit in the center. My mother in law spent a week collecting grass, dried it, and prepared it to make brooms. She made 5 dollars. Paved roads are nice, but they are only an inch thick and frequently wash away or disappear into a plain of muddy holes.

People don't starve here because there is lots of food and the weather is hot but mild mannered. Most of the money in the GDP is controlled by a very small group. Yes you can prove Thailand is in the upper reaches of the developing world, but there are very few true statements in the OP.

Where are you, never seen a fire pit in a house, everyone cooks outside. Most of the older homes here are stilt houses, no need for concrete floor. We have had electricity for years and I though I was about as far away from anything in Thailand as you could get. Jim

I have even seen fire pits on the floor in stilt houses with thatch roofs and bamboo floors, in fact there is one like that four houses down from me. I would say stilt houses make up half of this village. People cook outside and inside at the same time, depending on what they cook. Even my wife cooks on the open fire outside occasionally, even though we have a stove, oven, microwave, and BBQ. And often they cook on the fire pit which is inside her mother's house that (wait for it) is on the ground with no concrete floor, about 4 meters from my house. I am in Chiang Rai province, between Doi Chang and Wawee. But I have seen similar villages here and in Mae Hong son, and Chiang Mai province.

Firepits in the house are useful in cold season when your altitude is 700 meters+

Guess that answer my question, I'm down on the Lao Cambodia border, Drops to 18 degrees once in a blue moon, no one cooks inside and most homes are stilt houses, It is a big varied country in the end, Jim

[oli123]

Lived in a hilltribe village for 6 months, and while alot of people live very basic, they all had food, most seemed happy and while they wernt rich and probably only had 300 bhat to there name at any one point in time had a better life then many of the unemployed back home (Iif you are excluding creature comforts such as a good matress etc)

Kids all can go to school etc

Other Se asia countries that i have visited are a different matter

Edited May 18, 2012 by oli123

[wana]

Thailand is country of great diversity

you cant just say its rich or poor are this or that

in bangkok ,farangs probably have much less wealth than rich thais

but farangs are percieved as wealthier and many of them are stupid (in regards to throwing money around ) which compounds the problem

there are plenty of slums in bangkok ,which i doubt thai people would prefer over a condo in a new building

if there was government housing like in the west

people here probably dont visit slums very often but they are very depressing places ,often children ,almost naked playing in

puddles of dirty water while their parents are sniffing glue from a plastic bag

i was in one awile ago under a tollway bridge and a policeman came over and told me i should not stop here because "not good area for safety "

only a couple of miles from victory monument BTW so there is as much poverty in bkk as there is in the provinces ,much of that article

makes thailand sound like disneyland ,which it certaintly isnt .........

Edited May 18, 2012 by wana

[Geekfreaklover]

The OP's article made a comparison of Thailand's rural poor and other developing country's rural poor regions. The crux of the article was that rural Thailand isn't as poor as 1) some would imagine and 2)as other other developing countries are. The article gave evidence (however shaky) that rural Thailand is one of the richest rural poor regions comapred with other developing countries.

I lived in isaan for many years. Before I arrived I had an idea about isaan and rural Thailand being a poor area. That our post industrial revolutionalized world was far better than the life that farmers in Asia were living. Now, I'm not so sure. In the rural parts of Thailand there are fish swimming in the rivers. Fruit hanging from the trees. Rice growing in the paddies. You just have to reach out and take it. If you have something to eat and somewhere to sleep you are as rich as any man. There is always the option to go work in the city.

In comparision. I've been to places in India and Nepal, Cambodia, Laos, Burma - I have seen real poverty. The type of poverty the average rural Thai would not comprehend.

This, I think is the OP's point.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Geekfreaklover

[wana]

The OP's article made a comparison of Thailand's rural poor and other developing country's rural poor regions. The crux of the article was that rural Thailand isn't as poor as 1) some would imagine and 2)as other other developing countries are. The article gave evidence (however shaky) that rural Thailand has one of the richest rural poor regions in comparison with other developing countries.

I lived in isaan for many years. Before I arrived I had an idea about isaan and rural Thailand being a poor area. That our post industrial revolutionalized world was far better than the life that farmers in Asia were living. Now, I'm not so sure. In the rural parts of Thailand there are fish swimming in the rivers. Fruit hanging from the trees. Rice growing in the paddies. You just have to reach out and take it. If you have something to eat and somewhere to sleep you are as rich as any man. There is always the option to go work in the city.

In comparision. I've been to places in India and Nepal, Cambodia, Laos, Burma - I have seen real poverty. The type of poverty the average rural Thai would not comprehend.

This, I think is the OP's point.

there is always going to be somewhere poorer ,the world is a big place

and most of the money ,wealth,ownership is owned by a select few

thailand is amongst the top of developing poor countries but it is still a developing poor country

but how far

[geronomo24]

Very interesting article..i am sure and i have no doubt you are right with satistics..But i think you need to also factor in the changing face of Thailand..Many of the nouveau rich in thailand have achieved that status by selling off the family land and replacing it with a new car/apartment or one or another of the westen ideals that as we speak in relation to the world markets are no longer credible..The basics are changing very quickly..And Thailand like Bali and most emerging Asian countries is in danger of leaving behind the very things that allowed then a decent feed and a cheap beer..Lets hope not and that they keep the values of the common people

[vpi78]

Very interesting article..i am sure and i have no doubt you are right with satistics..But i think you need to also factor in the changing face of Thailand..Many of the nouveau rich in thailand have achieved that status by selling off the family land and replacing it with a new car/apartment or one or another of the westen ideals that as we speak in relation to the world markets are no longer credible..The basics are changing very quickly..And Thailand like Bali and most emerging Asian countries is in danger of leaving behind the very things that allowed then a decent feed and a cheap beer..Lets hope not and that they keep the values of the common people

Care to cite any sources about that fanciful porky "nouveau rich in Thailand ... achieved ... selling off land for new car ..."

No? I didn't think so.

[xthAi76s]

The article makes the point that Thailand, while still very much a poor country (at least for the 99%-ers), does quite a bit better than many other developing, poor countries. However, the article's bias is rather obvious, and, as many posters have stated, it whitewashes a reality of relative hardship that is impossible to ignore.

Yes, Thailand is ideal for food production as everything just grows here. Thais never needed to develop the agricultural efficiencies that their neighbors to the north (China) and east (Korea/Japan) pioneered (say, for rice production) because the climate in Thailand is just absolutely perfect for various food production. Just throw some seed anywhere on the ground in the right parts of Thailand, and you'll likely have a rather bountiful yield.

Also, not that it was the article's point, but if fails to mention what role favorable US economic/trade policy has played in Thailand's continuing economic development (as I think this is really the only fundamental place Thailand is developing -- certainly not legally, not culturally, not ethically, etc). Some economists/historians believe that a very significant portion of Thai economic development owes its thanks to these US policies. I am one to agree.

As for the whitewashing in the article, for every article like it, there are likely AT LEAST as many that paint a different picture.

http://www.pbs.org/n...land_05-17.html

Combating Hardship in Rural Thailand

(AIR DATE: May 17, 2012)

Transcript

JEFFREY BROWN: Next tonight, narrowing the gap between urban and rural dwellers that exists even in a relatively prosperous country such as Thailand.

Special correspondent Fred de Sam Lazaro reports on one social entrepreneur's project in that Southeast Asian nation...

...

Edited May 19, 2012 by xthAi76s

[BigJohnnyBKK]

All this stuff about food-source animals being abundantly available in the paddies is a crock in my experience. First of that's certainly never been true in drought conditions as much of the countryside is experiencing right now.

More significantly, the commercial agribusiness vendors assisted by the government have been pushing chemical fertilizer + pesticide + engineered crop varieties for many decades now, and that's certainly taken over the fields around the villages I've spent time in, and those places no longer have wildlife available for harvesting.

The old people talk nostalgically of these Edenic conditions that I assume posters here are parroting from old texts.

Or perhaps there are some areas of the country where they still use traditional organic methods in their rice cropping, but I doubt these are the norm.

And decent fruit rarely "just grows", proper orchards take a fair amount of work - and are usually very regularly and heavily sprayed.

Respect to the OP for his post. I've lived in Bangkok for six years and never been to a rural village. I've holidayed in Chiangmai, Samet (a lot), Phuket, Pattaya (too much) and Samui but never been to a real rural village, I've no idea what it's like and don't want to find out but I'll take the OP's word for it that it's better than Nigeria!

Cheers

Then I would say you haven't been to the real Thailand, haven't met the best people here. But that's just me.