Thai Red-Shirts Vow To Rally Until Deputy PM Suthep Is Charged

[way2muchcoffee]

How else can Thailand produce a government that is held by all Thais to be legitimate without an election? And how to carryout that election without an amnesty? Elections held with opposition leaders in jail do not generally enjoy a history of having their outcomes respected by all participants.

With a general amnesty for all, Thailand could move on to a successful election the results of which would be widely considered legitimate. Once that is accomplished, then both sides must either accept the outcome, or be exposed as undemocratic with the resultant diminution of legitimacy in the eyes of their supporters and the world.

To date, the Prime Minister and the Generals have managed this revolt well. Let's hope they continue to find the right solutions.

Then perhaps opposition leaders should avoid actively encouraging terrorism.

[madi]

Just have the election,

do a coup, then wait for the fight to begin.

Possible outcomes of a real fight.

10s of thousands dead

Half of Bangkok burned to the ground

Nation split into three or more pieces

Baht at 120

Sky-train now called the blownup train

Subway a war zone too

Taxis used as car bombs

Farangs run out of the nation

You can guess the rest.

You have a vivid imagination I must say.

Perhaps a script for Bangkok Dangerous I ?

Good movie but this one would be called

"Bangkok Burning"

We need a younger Thai Star with battles on the skytrain and in the Subway.

But really

Chaos is never far away in any nation. Do you think the Police would keep working during a fight?

NO

The reds against the other would be chaos for sure.

Perhaps the reds win simply by breaking the system?

My opinion?

I think both sides should negotiate a slow and sure move toward a modern form of democratig government much as we see in The UK.

[62strat]

<snip>

To date, the Prime Minister and the Generals have managed this revolt well. Let's hope they continue to find the right solutions.

Two months of lawlessness and billions lost and and and....

Two months of trying to work a compromise with minimum loss of life, only for these unreasonable thugs to show their true colours at the end.

The govt have army have eight weeks to understand and plan what they're up against, but unfortunately I've got a hunch the reds will sink further lower than this.

Being charged is far from being convicted, convicted is far from sentenced, and that is far from any time served....see former PM as example.....open ended conditions seem to be a desperate tactic or just a silly oneupmanship that can never be achieved.....Here's hoping the Red shirts can somehow see that the leaders they have are at least inept....if they can find better leaders they will easily achieve what is possible in Thai politics (this may be another fight for another time)....time for Reds to proclaim victory and prepare to win some elections.....there is nothing more gained in holding Bangkok hostage and continuing this high stakes game without any real prospect of further reward.... Give each other medals and sell it to the masses !!!!!

[frodo]

And when and if Suthep is charged then they won't stop until he is sentenced, and when and if sentenced until he goes to jail, and then only lift the "protest" when Suthep is executed. And when and if all that gets done they will demand Abhisit to follow the same, etc, etc...

Hyperbole, perhaps. But the red shirts have proven that they won't accept anything but their way.

They don't want compromise, they don't want to negotiate. They have one aim only, get in power for their own personal greed and pride.

Enough is enough, this is no longer a protest, this is an attempt to derail the democratic process and now the judicial system. They were given more than enough time to reach a solution to the situation, but they refuse to reach an agreement so I think it is time for the government to go in with force, the red shirts have the option of dispersing peacefully or fight back. Anyone that want to live up to the "peaceful protester" label should leave, those that want to fight can't cry foul if they get hurt or killed, it's their choice.

Totally agree with that.

They really have nothing on Suthep, except their words and viewpoint, which has been seen already as worthless.

UDD/Red law has already found Suthep guilty of crimes. Is is frightening to imagine what Thailand would be like with UDD/Red laws enacted. People have already witnessed their actions of illegal searches of citizens, rampaging and terrorizing a hospital only on suspicion, kidnapping, lies and deceit.

I would hate to see bloodshed, but the PM must also ensure the safety of all citizens, and he has over the past few months been very tolerant towards them and they have done nothing but shown disrespect and hatred. They have had far to many chances in this. Whatever happens, happens. If there is bloodshed, which the UDD has wanted since day 1, the blood will be only on their hands and not this governments.

[RickBradford]

Many of us knew what the reds really were like well BEFORE this current mess even started. How did anyone seriously EVER believe they came to Bangkok to peacefully "protest"?

Exactly. And does anyone think that they will leave before they incite the fight they've been spoiling for over the past two months? The 'leaders' desperately want the bill written in blood; plenty of easily-led rural folk may pay that price while the likes of Weng and Weera look on, gloating, from a safe distance.

[MacWalen]

I thought this story was already finished. I guess the directives from the leadership are to invent a new reason every day. Tomorrow if they charge him they will say 'and now we wait till he gets convicted, till then we are staying put', you will see. Whatever to continue disrupting. My feeling is that now more than ever Bangkok people hate the Red shirt movement and their leader.

Edited May 11, 2010 by macwalen

[Tigs]

How about the government gives free beer for a year to the 10 000 ex SAS and Special Forces that sit in the bars around Bangkok all day. There must be another 10 000 ex SAS and Special Forces down in Pattya. Give them all a day to sober up and then send them in to capture the Red leaders and see what they are really made of, after all they are all Special Forces aren't they?

[Squigy]

I invite any sane Thai or Farang to walk through the demonstartion and you will quickly see that once a tank fires a shot and this rabble (village mafia) will be on the run. Easy just block all escape routes and then go in and finish all these "simple minded ppl" off. Put them out of their misery.

I have noticed how frightened they all are. Some stupid thugs will make an attempt to show how "strong" they are but a good sniper will end their life.

The whole thing is a sham. Bring it on!!

[cdnmatt]

Oh, come on Nattawut, make up your mind. If you have one...

I don't think the reds were ready for someone like Abhisit, and others currently in the government. Intelligent, mild mannered, articulate, and more than open to negotiation & compromise. They weren't expecting that, so got left running around like chickens with their heads cut off, throwing out whatever excuse came to them that hour.

It's obvious they want a crackdown though, and now, it seems that's exactly what they're going to get.

[Tigs]

<snip>

To date, the Prime Minister and the Generals have managed this revolt well. Let's hope they continue to find the right solutions.

Two months of lawlessness and billions lost and and and....

Two months of trying to work a compromise with minimum loss of life, only for these unreasonable thugs to show their true colours at the end.

The govt have army have eight weeks to understand and plan what they're up against, but unfortunately I've got a hunch the reds will sink further lower than this.

Being charged is far from being convicted, convicted is far from sentenced, and that is far from any time served....see former PM as example.....open ended conditions seem to be a desperate tactic or just a silly oneupmanship that can never be achieved.....Here's hoping the Red shirts can somehow see that the leaders they have are at least inept....if they can find better leaders they will easily achieve what is possible in Thai politics (this may be another fight for another time)....time for Reds to proclaim victory and prepare to win some elections.....there is nothing more gained in holding Bangkok hostage and continuing this high stakes game without any real prospect of further reward.... Give each other medals and sell it to the masses !!!!!

Ok 62strat, straight in with one post. Which reincarnation are you of some of the previous Farang Red Shirt Supporters on here. We seem to be missing a lot lately and then in come more with 1 or 2 posts. Why keep us guessing (although that does appear to be a red trait), just give it to us straight (again I guess it's wishful thinking as reds can't do that). What would you like them to sell to the masses? Communism? Maoist Philosophy? Take your pick of the two, because that's where thee red thugs want to take the masses.

[Jingthing]

Yes, they want a crackdown. Then what? Do you reckon they can transform a crackdown and more "martyrs" into a red win? How?

[FatherF]

Oh, come on Nattawut, make up your mind. If you have one...

I don't think the reds were ready for someone like Abhisit, and others currently in the government. Intelligent, mild mannered, articulate, and more than open to negotiation & compromise. They weren't expecting that, so got left running around like chickens with their heads cut off, throwing out whatever excuse came to them that hour.

It's obvious they want a crackdown though, and now, it seems that's exactly what they're going to get.

More importantly, I don't think Thaksin was ready for someone like Abhisit.

FF

[madi]

Oh, come on Nattawut, make up your mind. If you have one...

I don't think the reds were ready for someone like Abhisit, and others currently in the government. Intelligent, mild mannered, articulate, and more than open to negotiation & compromise. They weren't expecting that, so got left running around like chickens with their heads cut off, throwing out whatever excuse came to them that hour.

It's obvious they want a crackdown though, and now, it seems that's exactly what they're going to get.

More importantly, I don't think Thaksin was ready for someone like Abhisit.

FF

Republic

[brahmburgers]

How else can Thailand produce a government that is held by all Thais to be legitimate without an election? And how to carryout that election without an amnesty? Elections held with opposition leaders in jail do not generally enjoy a history of having their outcomes respected by all participants.

With a general amnesty for all, Thailand could move on to a successful election the results of which would be widely considered legitimate. Once that is accomplished, then both sides must either accept the outcome, or be exposed as undemocratic with the resultant diminution of legitimacy in the eyes of their supporters and the world.

To date, the Prime Minister and the Generals have managed this revolt well. Let's hope they continue to find the right solutions.

In your fantasy land, you can grant amnesty to people who harbor combatants that shoot soldiers (who were firing rubber bullets in the air), and bomb civilians (and then cheer about reports of deaths). But in the real world, terrorists and the people who harbor them - need to be held responsible in a court of law. If found guilty, they need to be punished severely. No magic wand to wave.

My guess is the Reds will fracture in to two factions tomorrow. One faction will reluctantly choose to split the scene, when they see the shit is going to hit the fan in earnest. The other faction, which includes Seh Daeng, Kwanchai and Arisman, will attempt to tough it out. They're the ones Thaksin will look most favorably on, and will reward most handsomely when the smoke clears.

Then again, we may go through another week or two of the same cycle of Abhisit making threats and not being able to follow up, because he {A} doesn't have enough troop support, and {B} he's understandably spooked by having Thais bloodied. Thais getting bloodied in Bkk is what the Thaksin and the Reds want, because it fits with their game plan of trying to paint A's administration as the baddies.

Just have the election,

do a coup, then wait for the fight to begin. Possible outcomes of a real fight.

10s of thousands dead, Half of Bangkok burned to the ground, Nation split into three or more pieces, Baht at 120, Sky-train now called the blownup train, Subway a war zone too, Taxis used as car bombs, Farangs run out of the nation, You can guess the rest.

You forgot Godzilla and Pee Wee Herman and the Flying Monkees.

[earthpig]

The biggest travesty to this country would be to allow people guilty of breaking serious laws a get out of jail free card. Once the law is lost, the country is lost.

You sir are absolutely correct.

And the get out of jail free card given to the coup organizers has nothing to do with this lost country?

That, i'm afraid, is how the reds see it. and that's the problem.

[AleG]

I invite any sane Thai or Farang to walk through the demonstartion and you will quickly see that once a tank fires a shot and this rabble (village mafia) will be on the run. Easy just block all escape routes and then go in and finish all these "simple minded ppl" off. Put them out of their misery.

I have noticed how frightened they all are. Some stupid thugs will make an attempt to show how "strong" they are but a good sniper will end their life.

The whole thing is a sham. Bring it on!!

I hope you are just trolling.

[madi]

I invite any sane Thai or Farang to walk through the demonstartion and you will quickly see that once a tank fires a shot and this rabble (village mafia) will be on the run. Easy just block all escape routes and then go in and finish all these "simple minded ppl" off. Put them out of their misery.

I have noticed how frightened they all are. Some stupid thugs will make an attempt to show how "strong" they are but a good sniper will end their life.

The whole thing is a sham. Bring it on!!

I hope you are just trolling.

Go Back Jack

Do it again

Wheel turning round and round.

[Old Man River]

Yes, they want a crackdown. Then what? Do you reckon they can transform a crackdown and more "martyrs" into a red win? How?

They can't possibly do any worse than they have already. A crack down for the Reds at least takes this in a different direction and gives them something tangible to cry about. Besides, the leaders will be hiding under the stage until the press gets there.

[enginerevision]

"The UDD cannot accept the 'show' staged by the DSI and Mr Suthep" said Mr Nathawut,

Therefore, the UDD would not yet end the rally until Mr Suthep had surrendered to police and entered the judicial process, he added.

[Squigy]

Yes, they want a crackdown. Then what? Do you reckon they can transform a crackdown and more "martyrs" into a red win? How?

They can't possibly do any worse than they have already. A crack down for the Reds at least takes this in a different direction and gives them something tangible to cry about. Besides, the leaders will be hiding under the stage until the press gets there.

Any force can go in and take that place. But there has to be a will to do it. The Red's DO NOT have a force that is capable to fight the Police or the Army.

It would be all over in 30mins if it was done properly.

[earthpig]

those that want to fight can't cry foul if they get hurt or killed, it's their choice.

It rather sounds like these people getting hurt or killed is your choice too.

I can envision you in a former life, dressed in a toga, giving the gladiator the thumbs down.

To think that you are the product of 2,000 years of advancing civilization is, well, a sobering thought.

[Lopburi99]

<snip>

To date, the Prime Minister and the Generals have managed this revolt well. Let's hope they continue to find the right solutions.

<snip> Two months of lawlessness and billions lost and and and....

...and no bloodbath.

correct.

earthpig:

TV members have suggested many ways violence could have been avoided while dispersing the crowd early in the conflict. Abhisit allowed the situation get out of hand and for that reason I don't believe he handled the situation well at all. No tanks had to come rolling in. There were many nonviolent crowd control means available, and April 10 could have been avoided. I happen to be an Abhisit supporter but he could have handled this much more effectively. IMO Cheers

[frodo]

"The UDD cannot accept the 'show' staged by the DSI and Mr Suthep" said Mr Nathawut,

Therefore, the UDD would not yet end the rally until Mr Suthep had surrendered to police and entered the judicial process, he added.

Naturally all bullshit from Nathawut.

First it was to surrender. Suthep did.

Then it was to the Crime Suppression.

Now it's to enter into the judicial process.

Next it will be the demand to find him guilty, or else.

Then it will be execution with his head on a spit for proof.

After that, it will be something else.

They blew it, fair and square and no more of this nonsense. Nuthawut is being charged for terrorism and should have been arrested a long time ago, along with his other partners in crime. If found guilty, no leniency for any of them. End it now.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I invite any sane Thai or Farang to walk through the demonstartion and you will quickly see that once a tank fires a shot and this rabble (village mafia) will be on the run. Easy just block all escape routes and then go in and finish all these "simple minded ppl" off. Put them out of their misery.

I have noticed how frightened they all are. Some stupid thugs will make an attempt to show how "strong" they are but a good sniper will end their life.

The whole thing is a sham. Bring it on!!

I hope you are just trolling.

Meh, just another keyboard rambo with a little too much to drink.

Let's see if the zero tolerance policy against spreading hate and inciting violence is still in effect though.

Edited May 11, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[way2muchcoffee]

those that want to fight can't cry foul if they get hurt or killed, it's their choice.

It rather sounds like these people getting hurt or killed is your choice too.

Actually if protesters get hurt during a dispersal operation then it is entirely of their own choosing. They can leave right now, today. Every moment they remain in the occupied territory they are consciously deciding to violate the law. They have chosen to side with terrorists, insurrectionists, and criminals. They have shown exceedingly poor judgment. The only innocents at Ratchaprasong are the children.

Edited May 11, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Jingthing]

those that want to fight can't cry foul if they get hurt or killed, it's their choice.

It rather sounds like these people getting hurt or killed is your choice too.

I can envision you in a former life, dressed in a toga, giving the gladiator the thumbs down.

To think that you are the product of 2,000 years of advancing civilization is, well, a sobering thought.

The reds aren't reasonable. What is the government supposed to do exactly? Wait until Bangkok goes underwater to flood them out? Get real. This has gone on longer than it would have in any other country in the world. Maybe the reds will win, maybe they won't, but it is clear they want WAR. Maybe some crazy foreigners want war too, but the vast majority of us wanted a peaceful, reasonable solution. But that isn't happening. It isn't good, but that's what's happening, it doesn't mean we are in favor of people getting hurt. But bottom line the reds ARE asking for it.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Jingthing

[AleG]

those that want to fight can't cry foul if they get hurt or killed, it's their choice.

It rather sounds like these people getting hurt or killed is your choice too.

I can envision you in a former life, dressed in a toga, giving the gladiator the thumbs down.

To think that you are the product of 2,000 years of advancing civilization is, well, a sobering thought.

I would suggest that you cut it off with the personal insults.

I don't advocate the armed forces to ram the protest site firing guns, I'd like to see everyone dispersed on their own or arrested without violence. IF, someone in the red shirt protest site resorts to violence or guns, then it's no longer an innocent and must be dealt with whatever means necessary to stop that person from hurting others. Just as if someone pulls a gun on the street and starts shooting passersby the police is allowed to neutralize that person by any means.

[frodo]

Meanwhile, another red-shirt leader Arisman Pongruangrong stated he will not report to police on any condition as the declaration of the emergency decree is unlawful.

Terrorist Arisiman, on bail for his serious crimes last year at the ASEAN Summit while he commits more crimes. The same man who feels it is okay to burn down Bangkok with moltov cocktails. All legal in his mind, but a SOE is not. Again, the UDD/Reds are tarnished with nothing but lies from the same jackass who promised to surrender on April 1st of this year.

Ignorance is one thing, stupidity and foolishness are another. Whichever "protesters" remain after this evening certainly will fit into the later.

[earthpig]

There were many nonviolent crowd control means available, and April 10 could have been avoided. I happen to be an Abhisit supporter but he could have handled this much more effectively. IMO Cheers

I have no idea if April 10 could have been avoided by any different action taken by the government because I have no idea how it started, and I doubt, and rather hope, that anybody else here does either.

My praise above for Abhisit and the generals has nothing to do with the cloudy and tragic events of that night, but rather with the simple fact that civil war has been avoided, to date, and that the government has generously, and wisely, dealt with the election demand of the Reds. If ever leadership and strength were to be displayed thru compromise, this is one such case. Whether the government has done enough, is another matter, and reasonable people can debate that.

As I am not Thai, I support neither Abhisit nor the Reds. But I do think that foreigners are allowed to support the truth, as they perceive it. And that truth, as I do see it, is that both are partners in clumsy dance. There are no other partners available on the dance floor. They just have to work it out.

And that consideration rather effectively precludes killing each other.

[brahmburgers]

^^ The army should clear the barricades at all the "fortress" entrances during daylight. And then retreat and wait. While doing this, the red thugs will show what they are really about, and will respond with petrol bombs, grenades and live fire. That will leave the army to go in there fully armed to clean out the armed protesters.

That's what I recommended earlier.

.... IF, someone in the red shirt protest site resorts to violence or guns, then it's no longer an innocent and must be dealt with whatever means necessary to stop that person from hurting others. Just as if someone pulls a gun on the street and starts shooting passersby the police is allowed to neutralize that person by any means.

I agree. All but a few of us anti-Red members are against all-out violence. Yet, the Reds have pushed themselves in to a corner - literally, and leave no reasonable way out for authorities, other than concerted crowd dispersal. Abhisit and his meek generals and do-nothing police allowed it to get to this point. Yet the onus falls on the Reds and their paymaster, who have had numerous golden opportunities to end this problem - yet continue to steer factions toward a bloody ending.

Message to the poor sops who say they can't leave the protest site because they haven't yet been paid and/or can't get 'permission' of their minders and/or can't get their ID cards returned: GET OUT NOW! What's more important, your life and limbs, or the little things mentioned in the previous sentence?

And anyone who is keeping a child within the barricades, I would personally smack 'em in the face and grab their child and take the kid somewhere safe.