Thai Red-Shirts Vow To Rally Until Deputy PM Suthep Is Charged

[whybother]

There were many nonviolent crowd control means available, and April 10 could have been avoided. I happen to be an Abhisit supporter but he could have handled this much more effectively. IMO Cheers

I have no idea if April 10 could have been avoided by any different action taken by the government because I have no idea how it started, and I doubt, and rather hope, that anybody else here does either.

My praise above for Abhisit and the generals has nothing to do with the cloudy and tragic events of that night, but rather with the simple fact that civil war has been avoided, to date, and that the government has generously, and wisely, dealt with the election demand of the Reds. If ever leadership and strength were to be displayed thru compromise, this is one such case. Whether the government has done enough, is another matter, and reasonable people can debate that.

As I am not Thai, I support neither Abhisit nor the Reds. But I do think that foreigners are allowed to support the truth, as they perceive it. And that truth, as I do see it, is that both are partners in clumsy dance. There are no other partners available on the dance floor. They just have to work it out.

And that consideration rather effectively precludes killing each other.

The red leaders nearly accepted a deal last week. That was the same deal that was offered in negotiations 6 weeks ago. April 10 could have been avoided if the reds had accepted the deal that was offered then or at least kept up the negotiations.

"But I do think that foreigners are allowed to support the truth, as they perceive it."

What a lot of foreigners need to do is first support the truth as the facts show it.

[bendejo]

The reds behave like little children. Weeks of firebrand speeches, wielding weapons, and then when the confrontation happens it's all "WAH! Look what they did to us!!"

They don't seem very concerned about people killed/injured in grenade attacks. Anyone else notice how none of these attacks were aimed at reds?

I'm impressed with the shrewdness of the PM: he knows some knucklehead is going to do something stupid (doesn't take a platoon of fortune tellers to figure that one out) and that will void the deal.

I'm wondering if Issan will now have regular terrorist acts, like the southeast.

And anyone who is keeping a child within the barricades, I would personally smack 'em in the face and grab their child and take the kid somewhere safe.

That's the idea, just think of the ghastly sight of the anguished mother holding her bloodied offspring, and how good it's going to look on posters declaring Abhisit a murderer. She'll definitely get a few extra zeroes added to her payout for it. It's sort of like a mother volunteering her kid as a suicide bomber.

I'm laying it out sarcastically but this whole ordeal has been so cynical it turns my stomach.

Edited May 11, 2010 by bendejo

[WinnieTheKhwai]

What's with this persistent ID card myth? People lose them all the time. You go to the Amphur, get it replaced. (Get temporary slip first, etc.) Surely you don't think nobody in this country ever loses an ID card in the laundry or elsewhere?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The reds behave like little children. Weeks of firebrand speeches, wielding weapons, and then when the confrontation happens it's all "WAH! Look what they did to us!!"

They don't seem very concerned about people killed/injured in grenade attacks. Anyone else notice how none of these attacks were aimed at reds?

Or maybe you just missed the statements, because some erm.. mainstream.. newspapers didn't publish them but instead chose to grandstand hatred on the front pages. That's fair.

Also, police were targeted at least once. That's pretty much aimed at (perceived) reds.

I'm impressed with the shrewdness of the PM:

I can't decide if I'm impressed with his patience, or appalled by his ineffectiveness. I think better of him since the road map proposal though, that was VERY reasonable.

I'm wondering if Issan will now have regular terrorist acts, like the southeast.

To achieve what?

Edited May 11, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[melmark]

Will an election really solve the problems?

If the reds win an election won't the yellows be back on the streets doing the same thing within a year of the election?

Both sides are going to eventually force the military to take over.

[way2muchcoffee]

What's with this persistent ID card myth? People lose them all the time. You go to the Amphur, get it replaced. (Get temporary slip first, etc.) Surely you don't think nobody in this country ever loses an ID card in the laundry or elsewhere?

It's not about ID card replacement. It's about thugs holding their ID cards. If they leave without their ID cards then those same thugs will know exactly where they live and that they left the protest area early. It's about intimidation and fear.

I'm not suggesting that this is the case for all the protesters. In fact I have no idea how many may fit into this category, if any at all. I don't doubt that there are some though.

Edited May 11, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[whybother]

Will an election really solve the problems?

If the reds win an election won't the yellows be back on the streets doing the same thing within a year of the election?

Both sides are going to eventually force the military to take over.

If the reds win (or they get a coalition together like 2007), the yellows will be back on the streets if the reds cheated and the courts are slow dealing with the cases.

If the Democrats win (or they get a coalition like now), the reds will be back on the streets ... well, because the Democrats won, and they didn't vote for the Democrats. It won't matter to them that the majority DIDN'T vote for the reds.

[bendejo]

I'm wondering if Issan will now have regular terrorist acts, like the southeast.

To achieve what?

Good question. Ask any of those people camped out in Ratchprasang.

[earthpig]

those that want to fight can't cry foul if they get hurt or killed, it's their choice.

It rather sounds like these people getting hurt or killed is your choice too.

The only innocents at Ratchaprasong are the children.

For the sake of argument, let's say you are correct.

Think about it.

Do we want thai innocent Thai children to risk death to satisfy the blood lust of foreigners?

[way2muchcoffee]

those that want to fight can't cry foul if they get hurt or killed, it's their choice.

It rather sounds like these people getting hurt or killed is your choice too.

The only innocents at Ratchaprasong are the children.

For the sake of argument, let's say you are correct.

Think about it.

Do we want thai innocent Thai children to risk death to satisfy the blood lust of foreigners?

It's the bloodlust of the redshirts I'm worried about. If they didn't want blood they would have left already. They wouldn't have used arms against their own country's police or soldiers. But they did. Any parent with a child there should lose custody of that child forever.

Edited May 11, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[earthpig]

IF, someone in the red shirt protest site resorts to violence or guns, then it's no longer an innocent and must be dealt with whatever means necessary to stop that person from hurting others.

Read what Way2muchcoffee wisely posts above.

It the children and other innocents, AleG, that you are condeming to death.

And stop demanding the blood of others to calm your inner disquiet.

[elcent]

Will an election really solve the problems?

If the reds win an election won't the yellows be back on the streets doing the same thing within a year of the election?

Both sides are going to eventually force the military to take over.

there will be a dispersal and it will continue with clandestine wars, amart against amart, red against yellow, using the poor folks as pawns for exterminations. Not funny in a city like Bangkok. There will be no civil war, or does anybody think that the majority want to miss even one of their favorite soaps?

The govt usually should take this opportunity of the emergency degree to clean up the forces, police and army alike, only then the worst can be avoided. Hardball is on the drawing board now, or should be.

[earthpig]

But bottom line the reds ARE asking for it.

No they arent.

You are.

And just what is the point of your hammer icon smashing that nail?

Like to break a few skulls yourself, is it?

[way2muchcoffee]

IF, someone in the red shirt protest site resorts to violence or guns, then it's no longer an innocent and must be dealt with whatever means necessary to stop that person from hurting others.

Read what Way2muchcoffee wisely posts above.

It the children and other innocents, AleG, that you are condeming to death.

And stop demanding the blood of others to calm your inner disquiet.

But there will be no blood if the redshirts disperse peacefully. The only way there will be blood is if the redshirts fight back against a lawful dispersal operation.

Edited May 11, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[earthpig]

It's the bloodlust of the redshirts I'm worried about.

once the shooting starts, once reds and soldiers see their comrades fall, then the real slaughter may well begin. What the armchair butchers here may not realize, is that real life violence is not a computer game.

Once the genie of violence is let out of the bottle, he doesnt willingly go back in.

its everyone's bloodlust we should be worried about.

[way2muchcoffee]

It's the bloodlust of the redshirts I'm worried about.

once the shooting starts, once reds and soldiers see their comrades fall, then the real slaughter may well begin. What the armchair butchers here may not realize, is that real life violence is not a computer game.

Once the genie of violence is let out of the bottle, he doesnt willingly go back in.

its everyone's bloodlust we should be worried about.

What you fail to understand is that the redshirts must leave one way or another. They have had every opportunity to leave peacefully. They have not chosen to take it. This government has a duty to the citizens who are not protesting as well as to those who are. The problem is that the ones protesting are violent and have taken the city center hostage. Therefore they are the ones the government must take action against.

The redshirts are leaving the government no other choice. The redshirts can leave at anytime. They should leave. I hope and pray that they leave. But if they do not then the government can, should, and will remove them using the least force possible.

Edited May 11, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[dhrobertson]

But bottom line the reds ARE asking for it.

No they arent.

You are.

And just what is the point of your hammer icon smashing that nail?

Like to break a few skulls yourself, is it?

Ah! His pigness returns. How long were you suspended for?

QUOTE (dhrobertson @ 2010-05-11 10:23:52)

Lying, cheating, incapable of being straight about anything.

Are these people Thai?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A good desciption of many Tha girl friends

---------------------------------------------------

I had a Damascene moment today!

Another journal had a letter pointing out that Thaia are notoriously poor at reading maps....

In seems to me that the distaff side have similar problems.

With the uncertain sexuality of many here, I think we have been missing something...

Are the the red "leaders" actually a bunch of girls?

[whybother]

It's the bloodlust of the redshirts I'm worried about.

once the shooting starts, once reds and soldiers see their comrades fall, then the real slaughter may well begin. What the armchair butchers here may not realize, is that real life violence is not a computer game.

Once the genie of violence is let out of the bottle, he doesnt willingly go back in.

its everyone's bloodlust we should be worried about.

Yes. That's what happened on April 10. Everyone was dancing around. The soldiers were just standing there. Then a shot rang out from somewhere (witnesses said they don't know where and video backed that up), and then all hel_l broke loose.

If the army have to move in over the next few days, then things will be a bit more predictable.

If the reds are lucky they will start off, as on April 10, with riot police. The first violent (petrol bombs, grenades, guns) reaction from the reds will result in the riot police pulling back and the army guns coming out.

Then it will be up to the reds how many are killed or injured.

[wlcart]

I think I know what is going to happen next, but how many times in the last couple months have we thought we knew what was next only to be wrong?

It is certainly a crazy city out there these days and no one truly knows anything for absolute sure.

I hear a lot of people saying the government should crackdown, at that is a very logical solution I understand. However, there is no guaranty that a government crackdown will work. We all like to talk smart like the red shirts are uneducated fools, but they are resourceful people who have ways of getting by without significant advantages. I am also sure they have taken measures against a crackdown.

In addition I don't believe the government has shown itself exactly competent. They could easily blunder this whole thing.

Overall I think too a crackdown is in order, but I am aware that it may not happen at all, and if it does happen it may be a total disaster.

Good luck Thailand.....

Edited May 11, 2010 by wlcart

[Jingthing]

What's with this persistent ID card myth? People lose them all the time. You go to the Amphur, get it replaced. (Get temporary slip first, etc.) Surely you don't think nobody in this country ever loses an ID card in the laundry or elsewhere?

Your comment is VERY disingenuous. It's about GETTING PAID! The ID cards were taken with the idea that they would returned when the job is finished and it is time to get paid. These poor people want their ID cards, yes. They also need to get paid. That was the deal.

[Jingthing]

But bottom line the reds ARE asking for it.

No they arent.

You are.

And just what is the point of your hammer icon smashing that nail?

Like to break a few skulls yourself, is it?

Yes they are. No I'm not.

Uh oh, I have stooped to your level.

[62strat]

I think I know what is going to happen next, but how many times in the last couple months have we thought we knew what was next only to be wrong?

It is certainly a crazy city out there these days and no one truly knows anything for absolute sure.

I hear a lot of people saying the government should crackdown, at that is a very logical solution I understand. However, there is no guaranty that a government crackdown will work. We all like to talk smart like the red shirts are uneducated fools, but they are resourceful people who have ways of getting by without significant advantages. I am also sure they have taken measures against a crackdown.

In addition I don't believe the government has shown itself exactly competent. They could easily blunder this whole thing.

Overall I think too a crackdown is in order, but I am aware that it may not happen at all, and if it does happen it may be a total disaster.

Good luck Thailand.....

I agree with this....so far the crackdowns have been very ineffective...the Army fighting civilians in the heart of Bangkok seems like the nuclear option...could lead to years of terrorist attacks ...I really hope the Reds realize that they have won all they can by this, and agree to end this brinkmanship path to Anarchy

[redparrot]

What's with this persistent ID card myth? People lose them all the time. You go to the Amphur, get it replaced. (Get temporary slip first, etc.) Surely you don't think nobody in this country ever loses an ID card in the laundry or elsewhere?

Your comment is VERY disingenuous. It's about GETTING PAID! The ID cards were taken with the idea that they would returned when the job is finished and it is time to get paid. These poor people want their ID cards, yes. They also need to get paid. That was the deal.

I'm going to call bullshit on that one. If hundreds or thousands of people's ID cards would be held hostage or money supposed to be paid that isn't being paid, you'd see them demonstrating against the UDD leaders quite quickly. So your theory is bullshit, sorry.

[noahvail]

But bottom line the reds ARE asking for it.

No they arent.

You are.

And just what is the point of your hammer icon smashing that nail?

Like to break a few skulls yourself, is it?

Yes they are. No I'm not.

Uh oh, I have stooped to your level.

No, you haven't

Maslow, yes?

[Jingthing]

What's with this persistent ID card myth? People lose them all the time. You go to the Amphur, get it replaced. (Get temporary slip first, etc.) Surely you don't think nobody in this country ever loses an ID card in the laundry or elsewhere?

Your comment is VERY disingenuous. It's about GETTING PAID! The ID cards were taken with the idea that they would returned when the job is finished and it is time to get paid. These poor people want their ID cards, yes. They also need to get paid. That was the deal.

I'm going to call bullshit on that one. If hundreds or thousands of people's ID cards would be held hostage or money supposed to be paid that isn't being paid, you'd see them demonstrating against the UDD leaders quite quickly. So your theory is bullshit, sorry.

The red leaders are THUGS. If they complained to the red leaders they would be beat up. Or worse. Plus they have to go back to their villages and maybe be labeled TRAITORS. There is lots of evidence of violent intimidation of red leaders against red "prai". That's the way they do it.

[redparrot]

What's with this persistent ID card myth? People lose them all the time. You go to the Amphur, get it replaced. (Get temporary slip first, etc.) Surely you don't think nobody in this country ever loses an ID card in the laundry or elsewhere?

Your comment is VERY disingenuous. It's about GETTING PAID! The ID cards were taken with the idea that they would returned when the job is finished and it is time to get paid. These poor people want their ID cards, yes. They also need to get paid. That was the deal.

I'm going to call bullshit on that one. If hundreds or thousands of people's ID cards would be held hostage or money supposed to be paid that isn't being paid, you'd see them demonstrating against the UDD leaders quite quickly. So your theory is bullshit, sorry.

The red leaders are THUGS. If they complained to the red leaders they would be beat up. Or worse. Plus they have to go back to their villages and maybe be labeled TRAITORS. There is lots of evidence of violent intimidation of red leaders against red "prai". That's the way they do it.

So the red leaders are beating up their own protesters? Wow, that must be why there keep coming more and more from the North-East. Just last weekend another 5,000 arrived for their "free beatings". Surely you must have been a witness to something that makes you believe that? Please do explain further.

[pcruzer]

protesters around the world protest because they dont like something...issues must be addresed & solutions found. suppression is not a solution

[Jingthing]

protesters around the world protest because they dont like something...issues must be addresed & solutions found. suppression is not a solution

The reds are not peaceful protesters. They are not non-violence civil disobedience players. They are rather a violent, revolutionary INSURGENCY with a terrorist faction. Face facts.

[faranginexile]

Looking at the red leaders and their constant and unrealistic demands, there really is no need anymore for Abhisit to dissolve parliament and call early elections. The reds can bitch and moan all they want, but they are fully to blame and deserve nothing.

This. A deal is not a true deal if one side doesn't fulfill their end of it. The price of Abhisit's concession was the Reds evacuating BKK. This, the Reds have not done. Ergo, Abhisit should feel no obligation to follow through on his part of the alleged bargain.

[AleG]

IF, someone in the red shirt protest site resorts to violence or guns, then it's no longer an innocent and must be dealt with whatever means necessary to stop that person from hurting others.

Read what Way2muchcoffee wisely posts above.

It the children and other innocents, AleG, that you are condeming to death.

I think it's against forum rules to reply to that as you deserve. Off to the ignore list instead.