PM Abhisit To Red-Shirts: Leave Today

[oceano]

Cut what? they have all they need for stay month.

I suppose the fuel truck is parked nearby, or does the generator run on solar power?

Sorry i dont look for that, what i see are 7 o 8 generator all working when i stay there, they have hundreds of box of water, they make also ice , in 2 or 3 hours i was there i see all the time car and pickup come inside whit water, food and other thing.

I say again im not whit them or yellows, please, im and observer only, that and i can say they are not stupid at all, they know very well the governament can cut power and food supply and they know, like us, like all normal people what they can do for stay there long time.

Thai mind is so easy to follow, the problem that many want find more complex situation for talk about, they are not western they think day per day.

So is so easy to know what happen tonight...only think the easy way.

Ciaoo

Edited May 12, 2010 by oceano

[christiaan]

From a 'distance' and to some western standards I would say Abhisit has done a great job till now and it looks like he will continue to do so. Ofcourse he is not perfect and he will have made some mistakes but he could be the best prime minister Thailand had in years. I know many people will object this since especially the hardliners long for a hard way of dealing the problems but considering with any hardline solution there would be dramatic consequenses of all kind I think he walked the right road in a learning proces. I hope in the last month he, and the wise people in government, had the time to learn how to dissolve this protest in the best way now.

For all the 'shouters' outside and without government responsibillity: it is easy to critisize the people in charge but Thailand can be happy most of you are not in charge and will never be. It is time to pray heaven will be helpfull to the Thai people so they can move to a better future. And especially the poor people in Thailand need this future because they have been more and more separated from this in the last years.

[ambros5]

I felt sorry to all Thais. My opinion --- Abishit is creating a guerilla unit (militants) among red by giving them free starve training. Even they cracked and clear the roads, sure there will be a guerialla warfare in the heart of Bangkok. Remember! the majority Thais are with Reds because they had captured twice legal electrol role and not absconding power through military. Only 40% are with Abishit.

I think, the best solution was to dissolve the parliment and pave the way for election. Some of here were happy that Abishit going to crack the Reds but never realised what is going to happen in future. It will be a worst nightmare in Bangkok like Pakistan and Iraq. Anytime around the corner car bombs can explode and many Thai lives will be lost. After the crack the Reds can do this because they were named as terrorist by Abishit. It is better to do terrorist act rather than to be called as terrorist. If a innocent was called thief then he has right to steal. There is no point one arguing that he was innocent.

It is very hard for the army to win this war because all are same Thais. It is not like in Sri Lanka were my Tamil people were once fight against the majority sinhalese. So the Sinhalese Army easily won by Chinese and Pakistan supplied arms. But in Thailand it is impossible to control by army because of same people with different ideology. It is going to be Thais going to kill Thais. Possible North and North east can turn into republic of Thailand without king influence.

Hey! do not take my writing very serious. It's only my opinion.

Best regards.... from Malaysian.

[elcent]

9. The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom,

sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.

- Anupong???

[oceano]

From a 'distance' and to some western standards I would say Abhisit has done a great job till now and it looks like he will continue to do so. Ofcourse he is not perfect and he will have made some mistakes but he could be the best prime minister Thailand had in years. I know many people will object this since especially the hardliners long for a hard way of dealing the problems but considering with any hardline solution there would be dramatic consequenses of all kind I think he walked the right road in a learning proces. I hope in the last month he, and the wise people in government, had the time to learn how to dissolve this protest in the best way now.

For all the 'shouters' outside and without government responsibillity: it is easy to critisize the people in charge but Thailand can be happy most of you are not in charge and will never be. It is time to pray heaven will be helpfull to the Thai people so they can move to a better future. And especially the poor people in Thailand need this future because they have been more and more separated from this in the last years.

I agree whit you, him do the best for this country, the idea of the 5 point is very good.

[lungmi]

For all the specialists who know what to do (right or wrong, it's not my beer), this link can give you a deeper understanding of the actual situation.

Don't forget: Thaksin and Abhisit have chinese Hakka-Han roots. For me it's sure that A. knows The Art of War (Sun-Tzu), for T. I'm not sure, because he comes from a family of loan-sharks.

I studied the book these days and I found a lot of congruences with the actual situation. A. seems irresolute, but I found some reasons why - but look by yourself.

http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html

According to Sun Tzu one sure way to defeat is

By commanding the army to advance or to retreat,

being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey.

This is called hobbling the army.

And another one apt for this situation

He will win whose army is animated by the same

spirit throughout all its ranks.

Doesn't look good for Abhisit on Sun Tzu's reckoning if you ask me...

Absolutely right, but the army has different factions, you don`t need all. A good selection (Air Force..??..) can be a way out.

Endurance is another factor. But I'm not a future teller, Thaksin has the best.

[Herm]

9. The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom,

sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.

- Anupong???

Thai ??

[Herm]

Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya will brief foreign envoys about the latest political situation in Thailand on Wednesday.

I would take this as another sign of an impending crackdown - I hope

Edited May 12, 2010 by Herm

[lungmi]

9. The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom,

sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.

- Anupong???

Thai ??

You see, with all this problems I wonder why Abhisit does'nt give up.

[dobadoy]

Weng: We will run at soldiers with bare hands, even if they fire with assault rifles.

Shouldn't Weng have used 'they' rather than 'we' here? Not a cat in hel_l's chance he will be anywhere near the front line.

How I hate these rabble-rousers who throw away others' lives so cheaply.

I got the pronoun wrong. Of course, speaking from the red stage, Weng meant "You"...

[ratcatcher]

9. The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom,

sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.

- Anupong???

Thai ??

You see, with all this problems I wonder why Abhisit does'nt give up.

WHY?

Because he doesn't have to.

It's a chess game and right now he's checkmated the Reds.

[thepodest]

I felt sorry to all Thais. My opinion --- Abishit is creating a guerilla unit (militants) among red by giving them free starve training. Even they cracked and clear the roads, sure there will be a guerialla warfare in the heart of Bangkok. Remember! the majority Thais are with Reds because they had captured twice legal electrol role and not absconding power through military. Only 40% are with Abishit.

I think, the best solution was to dissolve the parliment and pave the way for election. Some of here were happy that Abishit going to crack the Reds but never realised what is going to happen in future. It will be a worst nightmare in Bangkok like Pakistan and Iraq. Anytime around the corner car bombs can explode and many Thai lives will be lost. After the crack the Reds can do this because they were named as terrorist by Abishit. It is better to do terrorist act rather than to be called as terrorist. If a innocent was called thief then he has right to steal. There is no point one arguing that he was innocent.

It is very hard for the army to win this war because all are same Thais. It is not like in Sri Lanka were my Tamil people were once fight against the majority sinhalese. So the Sinhalese Army easily won by Chinese and Pakistan supplied arms. But in Thailand it is impossible to control by army because of same people with different ideology. It is going to be Thais going to kill Thais. Possible North and North east can turn into republic of Thailand without king influence.

Hey! do not take my writing very serious. It's only my opinion.

Best regards.... from Malaysian.

I don't think "40%" of Thais are with the Reds. Maybe they share the same concerns of poverty, double standards and corruption. I share the same concerns too, but there's no way in hel_l I would ever associate with the Redshirts due to its leaders and the direction so far.

The leaders of Reds talk about Poverty, Double standards, but they do not propose any long term solutions to address that. All they say is DISSOLVE THE HOUSE DISSOLVE THE HOUSE ELECTION ELECTION. In contrast, Abhisit's government has made plans for land taxing and educational reforms. These problems will not simply go away.

It is obvious that Thaksin is calling the shots. Even Sae Daueng openly admits he is under the command of Thaksin, and even mentioned that Thaksin "replaced" the current leaders because they are willing to go along with the PM's reconciliation plan.

"Army specialist Khattiya Sawasdipol said former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra had telephoned him on Sunday and said he had decided to appoint a second generation of leaders of the UDD to replace the present key leaders, who had agreed to accept the government's road map to national reconciliation."

Is it a coincidence that a man accused of being in charge of the men in black and previous bombings is exclusively under the command of Thaksin?

How can Redshirt be a movement for democracy when the true hidden purpose that its follower has continuity failed to perceive is to serve the agenda of one man, the man behind the curtains, Thaksin.

Edited May 12, 2010 by thepodest

[Robby nz]

The Mrs always has a laugh when she hears Weng speaking, asked her why and she says Weng in Thai means “to do or say something in a nonsensical manner”.

Looked in my little dictionary and the only thing (closest) I could find is “broken or slightly cracked”

Make up your own mind.

[Squigy]

When the place is cleared, what happens after. What is the Govts exit strategy?

I believe that all the guns and explosives are located in the white contanier behind the stage. That will be where deaths take place and they who protect that place along with the UDD leaders inside deserve to die.

All these other barricardes are just to slow down the advance of Police or Army. Go through the sewers into the heart and it will be all over in 30 mins.

[bkkjames]

When the place is cleared, what happens after. What is the Govts exit strategy?

I believe that all the guns and explosives are located in the white contanier behind the stage. That will be where deaths take place and they who protect that place along with the UDD leaders inside deserve to die.

All these other barricardes are just to slow down the advance of Police or Army. Go through the sewers into the heart and it will be all over in 30 mins.

shhhhhh or they will start shooting fireworks at the ground mate.

[davidb98]

the government/military are frustrated, all the efforts of their (dumb)

intelligence has revealed that the reds do not have any war weapons, all

the violence has been by military and military related forces

the deeper reason for forcing Suthep and Abhisit into the legal process

is to bring the facts of the violence into the light

its apparent that the "crackdowns" just end up with the

government/military/yellow/blue, etc opportunists just fighting each

other, with some civilian including red casualties on the side

so, do you want Thailand:

to continue with the military in control and a succession of military

puppets in the government?

or

do you want to be ruled by democratic governments that bring the

military under control and are subject to regular elections by the Thai

people?

all Thai people of good will should join in the effort to ban all

military involvement in business and politics in Thailand, keep them

restricted to their role in defending against external forces not

"internal enemies"

[basjke]

the government/military are frustrated, all the efforts of their (dumb)

intelligence has revealed that the reds do not have any war weapons, all

the violence has been by military and military related forces

the deeper reason for forcing Suthep and Abhisit into the legal process

is to bring the facts of the violence into the light

its apparent that the "crackdowns" just end up with the

government/military/yellow/blue, etc opportunists just fighting each

other, with some civilian including red casualties on the side

so, do you want Thailand:

to continue with the military in control and a succession of military

puppets in the government?

or

do you want to be ruled by democratic governments that bring the

military under control and are subject to regular elections by the Thai

people?

all Thai people of good will should join in the effort to ban all

military involvement in business and politics in Thailand, keep them

restricted to their role in defending against external forces not

"internal enemies"

Can you please direct us to your source for this news because I'm sure I have missed that one.

[thepodest]

the government/military are frustrated, all the efforts of their (dumb)

intelligence has revealed that the reds do not have any war weapons, all

the violence has been by military and military related forces

the deeper reason for forcing Suthep and Abhisit into the legal process

is to bring the facts of the violence into the light

its apparent that the "crackdowns" just end up with the

government/military/yellow/blue, etc opportunists just fighting each

other, with some civilian including red casualties on the side

so, do you want Thailand:

to continue with the military in control and a succession of military

puppets in the government?

or

do you want to be ruled by democratic governments that bring the

military under control and are subject to regular elections by the Thai

people?

all Thai people of good will should join in the effort to ban all

military involvement in business and politics in Thailand, keep them

restricted to their role in defending against external forces not

"internal enemies"

Can you please direct us to your source for this news because I'm sure I have missed that one.

I'd also like to know. Probably pulled it out of his arse

[granuaile]

the government/military are frustrated, all the efforts of their (dumb)

intelligence has revealed that the reds do not have any war weapons, all

the violence has been by military and military related forces

the deeper reason for forcing Suthep and Abhisit into the legal process

is to bring the facts of the violence into the light

its apparent that the "crackdowns" just end up with the

government/military/yellow/blue, etc opportunists just fighting each

other, with some civilian including red casualties on the side

so, do you want Thailand:

to continue with the military in control and a succession of military

puppets in the government?

or

do you want to be ruled by democratic governments that bring the

military under control and are subject to regular elections by the Thai

people?

all Thai people of good will should join in the effort to ban all

military involvement in business and politics in Thailand, keep them

restricted to their role in defending against external forces not

"internal enemies"

As I remember in the US when I joined the army I swore to protect against both external and internal enemies... Not that unusual. I talked with a friend last night - Thai. She said she will leave Thailand if Thaksin ever returns. Democratic government. Yeah we've seen demonstrations of the redshirt idea of democracy, launch a grenade at anyone who disagrees with you. Actually there is really little - if anything - accurate in this.... Personally I like the military...

[earthpig]

Some of here were happy that Abishit going to crack the Reds but never realised what is going to happen in future. It will be a worst nightmare in Bangkok like Pakistan and Iraq. Anytime around the corner car bombs can explode and many Thai lives will be lost. After the crack the Reds can do this because they were named as terrorist by Abishit. It is better to do terrorist act rather than to be called as terrorist. If a innocent was called thief then he has right to steal. There is no point one arguing that he was innocent.

It is going to be Thais going to kill Thais. Possible North and North east can turn into republic of Thailand without king influence.

Nobody knows what will happen if there is a violent crackdown on the Reds, but horrible scenarios like this cannot be ruled out.

The wisdom of Abhisit and the Generals in not cracking down and in conceeding to the Reds a new election has kept matters largely under control to date, even bearing in mind the tragic events of 10 April.

Once again, circumstances are forcing Abhisit to show leadership. Only a general amnesty will bring about the national reconcilliation and new elections that is the only solution to have a democratically elected goverment that has legitimacy in the eyes of most Thais.

Abhisit is on the cusp of becoming a political leader of historical dimensions in Thailand. An amnesty will seal his reputation, and may earn the lasting gratitude of this generation of Thais.

[MaxLee]

The government is getting outplayed by the Red shirt leaders nice and slowly...

F%$*k Road map,... Did Abhisit and co. really think that the Red shirts would agree to something like a road map??? The government fell for it. All the red shirt leader's agreement was a lie from the start to toy with Abhisit and co, and lure them into a a game of Demonstrator's corruption.

The government was corrupt in past years, and now they are being taken out in their own game.

If I was a red shirt leader, I would say to myself, it was a smart move that I made, making all these empty promises, about an apparent agreement such as a road map, and catch the nifty government officials off guard and cause more trouble to the despair of innocent people.

The red shirt leaders want power as well, and I mean the leaders only. Their followers are too stupid to resist against their policies... and the rest of the Thai population can only watch and hope in vain...

I must say "smart move", red shirt leaders... "You are really the men!!!!!",... I mean, I'm just pointing out that, although their intentions are really against my beliefs,... one must admit that they have done a tremendous job in slowly taking control of the situation and dictating the political tempo.

Again, I'm not saying, that I agree with what the Red shirt leaders and their followers are doing in the name of the majority of Thailand,... all I'm saying is, that they really managed to trick and lure Abhisit and co. by using his Road map proposal to THEIR advantage and expose the government's real weakness when they are NOT THE ONES who are in control with THEIR corruption themes...

[saintofsilence]

The government is getting outplayed by the Red shirt leaders nice and slowly...

F%$*k Road map,... Did Abhisit and co. really think that the Red shirts would agree to something like a road map??? The government fell for it. All the red shirt leader's agreement was a lie from the start to toy with Abhisit and co, and lure them into a a game of Demonstrator's corruption.

The government was corrupt in past years, and now they are being taken out in their own game.

If I was a red shirt leader, I would say to myself, it was a smart move that I made, making all these empty promises, about an apparent agreement such as a road map, and catch the nifty government officials off guard and cause more trouble to the despair of innocent people.

The red shirt leaders want power as well, and I mean the leaders only. Their followers are too stupid to resist against their policies... and the rest of the Thai population can only watch and hope in vain...

I must say "smart move", red shirt leaders... "You are really the men!!!!!",... I mean, I'm just pointing out that, although their intentions are really against my beliefs,... one must admit that they have done a tremendous job in slowly taking control of the situation and dictating the political tempo.

Again, I'm not saying, that I agree with what the Red shirt leaders and their followers are doing in the name of the majority of Thailand,... all I'm saying is, that they really managed to trick and lure Abhisit and co. by using his Road map proposal to THEIR advantage and expose the government's real weakness when they are NOT THE ONES who are in control with THEIR corruption themes...

The Men are using women and children as human shields ' Does that make them Men ?

Edited May 12, 2010 by saintofsilence

[noahvail]

The government is getting outplayed by the Red shirt leaders nice and slowly...

F%$*k Road map,... Did Abhisit and co. really think that the Red shirts would agree to something like a road map??? The government fell for it. All the red shirt leader's agreement was a lie from the start to toy with Abhisit and co, and lure them into a a game of Demonstrator's corruption.

The government was corrupt in past years, and now they are being taken out in their own game.

If I was a red shirt leader, I would say to myself, it was a smart move that I made, making all these empty promises, about an apparent agreement such as a road map, and catch the nifty government officials off guard and cause more trouble to the despair of innocent people.

The red shirt leaders want power as well, and I mean the leaders only. Their followers are too stupid to resist against their policies... and the rest of the Thai population can only watch and hope in vain...

I must say "smart move", red shirt leaders... "You are really the men!!!!!",... I mean, I'm just pointing out that, although their intentions are really against my beliefs,... one must admit that they have done a tremendous job in slowly taking control of the situation and dictating the political tempo.

Again, I'm not saying, that I agree with what the Red shirt leaders and their followers are doing in the name of the majority of Thailand,... all I'm saying is, that they really managed to trick and lure Abhisit and co. by using his Road map proposal to THEIR advantage and expose the government's real weakness when they are NOT THE ONES who are in control with THEIR corruption themes...

The Men are using women and children as human shields ' Does that make them Men ?

Poor old sod Saint doesn't realize that his side has been played - and outplayed. Sad, innit?

[ChouDoufu]

i'm just kinda wondering....

they're cutting off the water and electric, planning on a mob dispersal operation.

resistance is expected, with grenades and petrol bombs to be used.

and the barricades are built of fuel-soaked tires.

what happens when the fire starts?

then goes out of control?

how will the emergency services save all the poor red shirts from being bbq'd?

......

ah, i understand.

[Samuian]

When the place is cleared, what happens after. What is the Govts exit strategy?

I believe that all the guns and explosives are located in the white contanier behind the stage. That will be where deaths take place and they who protect that place along with the UDD leaders inside deserve to die.

All these other barricardes are just to slow down the advance of Police or Army. Go through the sewers into the heart and it will be all over in 30 mins.

Do they hoard WoMD's too?

Does Thailand have no "Special Operations Troops" or is/was Kattiya the man in Coomand?

[saintofsilence]

i'm just kinda wondering....

they're cutting off the water and electric, planning on a mob dispersal operation.

resistance is expected, with grenades and petrol bombs to be used.

and the barricades are built of fuel-soaked tires.

what happens when the fire starts?

then goes out of control?

how will the emergency services save all the poor red shirts from being bbq'd?

......

ah, i understand.

Not to forget the gas bottles hidden in the fuel stoked barricades.

[MaxLee]

The government is getting outplayed by the Red shirt leaders nice and slowly...

F%$*k Road map,... Did Abhisit and co. really think that the Red shirts would agree to something like a road map??? The government fell for it. All the red shirt leader's agreement was a lie from the start to toy with Abhisit and co, and lure them into a a game of Demonstrator's corruption.

The government was corrupt in past years, and now they are being taken out in their own game.

If I was a red shirt leader, I would say to myself, it was a smart move that I made, making all these empty promises, about an apparent agreement such as a road map, and catch the nifty government officials off guard and cause more trouble to the despair of innocent people.

The red shirt leaders want power as well, and I mean the leaders only. Their followers are too stupid to resist against their policies... and the rest of the Thai population can only watch and hope in vain...

I must say "smart move", red shirt leaders... "You are really the men!!!!!",... I mean, I'm just pointing out that, although their intentions are really against my beliefs,... one must admit that they have done a tremendous job in slowly taking control of the situation and dictating the political tempo.

Again, I'm not saying, that I agree with what the Red shirt leaders and their followers are doing in the name of the majority of Thailand,... all I'm saying is, that they really managed to trick and lure Abhisit and co. by using his Road map proposal to THEIR advantage and expose the government's real weakness when they are NOT THE ONES who are in control with THEIR corruption themes...

The Men are using women and children as human shields ' Does that make them Men ?

Poor old sod Saint doesn't realize that his side has been played - and outplayed. Sad, innit?

All I'm saying is: Every f%$#in' victim in Thailand is smarter than any spoonfed politician who abuse their status to their advantage...

The red shirt leaders know exactly that the government and its military strategist are in no position of bargaining...

If the government doesn't do anything, the rest of the Thai population will curse them for not taking any actions.

On the other hand: When the government uses force against the red protestors, that act can work against them, since they will involve innocent people, children, women or whoever with their violent campaign. This will affect their International status worse as it already is...

Edited May 12, 2010 by MaxLee

[FatherF]

i'm just kinda wondering....

they're cutting off the water and electric, planning on a mob dispersal operation.

resistance is expected, with grenades and petrol bombs to be used.

and the barricades are built of fuel-soaked tires.

what happens when the fire starts?

then goes out of control?

how will the emergency services save all the poor red shirts from being bbq'd?

......

ah, i understand.

Box of matches anyone?

[elcent]

Thaksin, Panlop, Seh Daeng killing Thais. - War on Drugs, southern Mosque rampage, death penalties ... . What about Thais don't kill Thais?

There are more Thais killing Thais than French killing French, German killing Germans, ... th list could go on and on and on

the argumentations of the reds reminds me to the mafia code of "men of honor"

[Asa]

Abhisit has legal tools in his hands. but he does not posses the absolute authority to dictate the reds. It will become more of an argument when four of the five offers are flawed. Would he use force against people when his porposeal fails? Block supplies and cut utilities is human rights abuse, using force and shoot them down is brutal, and there will be a civil war. In long term the reds will be eternal enemy to the Dem. Let the reds have their few days till May 15, and save lives is a better choice. Negotiate more.... Consult the ten Raja-Dharma, or face the consequence creating Kaliyuga!