Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[datum]

Good quality photo-shop job by the BBC. Well done BBC.

No offense, but to accuse BBC for photo-shopping this image is a bit obsessed. These are the kind of comments that make the pro-government people not to sound credible.

[dobadoy]

What's the point of joining a discussion forum if you're going to ignore anyone who doesn't agree with you? Kind of defeats the purpose right? If all you want to read is the same comments from the same side then just get a subscription to The Nation and be done with it?

Like I said Winnie, I'm all for REASONED debate, but ranting palys no part in my definition of 'discussion'.

You're not on my list because tho' I don't agree with most of what you say, it still remains intelligent and debatable most of the time. Long may it continue. Even you must admit that there is wholesale rant fest going on from most of the red apologists on this site, right?

[seahorse]

Good quality photo-shop job by the BBC. Well done BBC.

[iciparis]

Here in Jatujak just past midnight I heard what sounded like gunfire or a series of small explosions, presumably from Din Daeng. Does anybody have a report from that area? I don't think I'll be getting back to sleep for a while.

It's weekend so they might wanne grab some bargains at JJ market

[Throatwobbler]

The arrogance AND utter disregard for human rights by the ruling regime and law is made clear to us all

by their shooting of women and children in the streets.

It is made clear to us all by the now 19 or more coups.

It is made clear now to Thai military by the ordered assassination of a Thai general.

it is made clear to the world by the arrogance and hate of killing same General while he is being interviewed by the Wall Street Journal.

It is made clear to Europe.

It is made Clear to North America.

It is made clear to Asia.

It is made clear to the world.

Thailand is now entering the same category as Myanmar in world ranking.

It is run by an illegal regime which uses extreme military force against its own people.

BUT now the real kicker.

The Thai military is very very upset with the order from on high that gave way to the assassination of a Thai General.

Look over at each other Thai military.

That man next to you might shoot you in the back.

Do you Thais still believe you are loved by the leaders?

NO

Yet another clueless red poster. I shouldn't respond to the troll but I will. Any evidence about the army being upset about Seh Daengs shooting. By the way we still don't know who did it, he had many enemy's. All armies need soldiers to follow the chain of command. If a major general steps outside that then he threatens the whole army. seems perfectly reasonable to me the army took him out them selves.

If you have evidence the army are upset about the order to kill him then could you post a link. If not be quiet.

[TAWP]

Black shirt with gun

That was not an amateur.

[daboyz1]

Some of the above comments are right on and worth thinking about, but I am no longer so sure about the international media.

Yep, I have to say I've been disappointed in CNN and BBC - the last one just started giving some bleeding heart spiel about how hard it is for protesters to lie on the floor for two months - please!

I guess part of the trouble is

i. they don't speak Thai and the majority have been flown in here from somewhere else, having read up from their own sources what is to be reported on.

ii. they are playing to int'l audience, who always love the 'poor protesters' versus 'authoritarian gov't' pitch.

Al Jazeera have had the best reports that i've seen, but haven't seen one from them today.

Agreed. I'm surprised Dan Rivers doesn't wear a red shirt when he reports from BKK.

[datum]

Yep, I have to say I've been disappointed in CNN and BBC - the last one just started giving some bleeding heart spiel about how hard it is for protesters to lie on the floor for two months - please!

I guess part of the trouble is

i. they don't speak Thai and the majority have been flown in here from somewhere else, having read up from their own sources what is to be reported on.

ii. they are playing to int'l audience, who always love the 'poor protesters' versus 'authoritarian gov't' pitch.

Al Jazeera have had the best reports that i've seen, but haven't seen one from them today.

Sorry but what kind of comments is this (ii)? The audience of BBC and CNN is the average conservative anti-demonstration western citizen. BBC and CNN have never talked about "authoritarian government" in Thailand. Get a grip! Stop to see everything under red/yellow filters!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

To those ranting on BBC and CNN being biased, consider that you may just be exposing your own bias!

[CheeseHammer]

The arrogance AND utter disregard for human rights by the ruling regime and law is made clear to us all

by their shooting of women and children in the streets.

It is made clear to us all by the now 19 or more coups.

It is made clear now to Thai military by the ordered assassination of a Thai general.

it is made clear to the world by the arrogance and hate of killing same General while he is being interviewed by the Wall Street Journal.

It is made clear to Europe.

It is made Clear to North America.

It is made clear to Asia.

It is made clear to the world.

Thailand is now entering the same category as Myanmar in world ranking.

It is run by an illegal regime which uses extreme military force against its own people.

BUT now the real kicker.

The Thai military is very very upset with the order from on high that gave way to the assassination of a Thai General.

Look over at each other Thai military.

That man next to you might shoot you in the back.

Do you Thais still believe you are loved by the leaders?

NO

I'm all for listening to reasoned, rational support of the red side, but why is it all your red apologists just rant like crazed nazis? Really, I can't figure whether you're for real or just taking the piss.

Anyway, join the list. You're on it already.

What is this list? Does it excite you when you add someone?

[hammered]

"The reds don't want reconciliation. They want to be in power. They only want one thing. That's why they don't want to negotiate."

That may be your take, but things look very different to the Thais in the upcountry villages – which is surely what is more germane than farang opinion. If you doubt me, read the international press, rather than The Nation & BKK Post, which are propaganda outlets for the BKK 'elite'.

We have no sure idea of what Abhisit wants, or how genuine are his conciliatory offers. Relevantly, the Reds apparently do not trust him. I'm sure he would be very happy if they all went quietly home. But from their viewpoint, what would they have gained, apart from a politician's promises?

As from the start, the peaceful solution is seemingly for dissolution of a government founded on an army coup & political horse-trading, then a new election. The alternative is more bloodshed & chaos, but that's just my take.

The farangs who take a violently partisan approach in this crisis are crapping in their own nest, IMHO. This is a very unstable part of the world. Thailand is surrounded by some very dodgy regimes. Not the least problem is the Moslem violence in the south. Inernal strife weakens Thailand. If you want to continue enjoying its benefits, you might do well to tone down your calls for 'crackdowns' & 'firm action' – the old jackboots & bullets treatment for the ungrateful poor

Some of the above comments are right on and worth thinking about, but I am no longer so sure about the international media. There were several articles today about how journalists are being targeted because the military doesn't want them to see what they are doing (which of course would make sense)...although shooting a Nation pro "propaganda outlet" is like shooting yourself in the foot...the same international media also talked about the poor defenseless protesters who have no escape and no recourse and if they are reporting stuff like this, then it makes me wonder if they even are in Bangkok...c'mon, anyone who has been out on the streets and seen what is going on realizes that there are certainly a very large number of anti government people who are armed with guns, knives, slingshots, rockets, grenades, petrol bombs, kerosene covered tires, and bamboo spears....oh, but i guess those cannot be red shirts or protesters who want democracy, they must be government plants right? I actually have started using the Nation for a lot of my feeds...they might have a pro gov slant, but at least the reports are regular, and friends on the ground have corroborated many of the stories and pics as they come through...at this point, there is a lot of propaganda on both sides......what people also seem to be forgetting is that just one week ago, whether lying or not, the govt offered to dissolve the House and have an election on Nov 14...and evidently the moderate Red leaders accepted...they could have walked off and taken that as full victory, and if the PM did go back on his word, he could then be crucified...but obviously, the big boss who only cares for himself vetoed the truce, and that is why we are here today....and the Reds still have the audacity now to demand that the troops pull out and then they will go home? Baloney. Given the timing of this entire movement, it is so easy to smell a rat, just sad that so many will have their lives wasted because of it.

If you want to know what the rural Thai sthink dont read the international press but go and talk to them. Mmm but you'll have to win their trust before that they tell you what they actually think and that takes ages. I would recommend this long term strategy if you are really interested. If you are m,ore intereste din just making silly unsubstantiated pointsd then dont bother

[deepskyfreak]

http://www.ems.bangkok.go.th/report/listdead%2022.00.pdf

If you read Thai, they are not all male. Female included in the list of dead.

sorry chantorn to go over your head with the play on words : mail EMS

EMS or "Suun Erawan" - I believe Erawan Medical Service, the English abbr. does not match the Thai meaning word by word.

BTW - one female on the list - age 32.

[CheeseHammer]

To those ranting on BBC and CNN being biased, consider that you may just be exposing your own bias!

This.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

What's the point of joining a discussion forum if you're going to ignore anyone who doesn't agree with you? Kind of defeats the purpose right? If all you want to read is the same comments from the same side then just get a subscription to The Nation and be done with it?

Like I said Winnie, I'm all for REASONED debate, but ranting palys no part in my definition of 'discussion'.

You're not on my list because tho' I don't agree with most of what you say, it still remains intelligent and debatable most of the time. Long may it continue. Even you must admit that there is wholesale rant fest going on from most of the red apologists on this site, right?

Sure. To be honest, this News topic moves so fast that nobody is really going to read anything in it anyway, other than the totally committed keyboard warriors on both sides. Most moderate points of view are immediately ignored, while continuing the flame fest against the more radical posts on both sides. It's a pretty fruitless discussion I think, with a very limited audience.

[animatic]

'RussellHantz'....I don't care if the leader is a 3 legged monster. As long as he can do whatever it takes to bring this country closer to reconciliation then he will have my support.

Abhisit has been harping on about reconciliation but the country has only divided under his leadership. He should never have been PM.

The reds don't want reconciliation. They want to be in power. They only want one thing. That's why they don't want to negotiate.

To me it looks like that Abhisit tries everything to cling in power and prefers violence and killing of civilians over elections.

Abhisit, appointed by the 'clear' majority of 235 PM to his position as PM, divided the country more than anybody else.

It looks to me like the reds don't care how many people die, just so they can force the elected government to step down.

Finally, you understand that Abhisit was elected by a majority of MPs.

In the December 2550 election PPP won 233 seats. If someone at TVF argue PPP had won the election, he will get immediately a heavy response and counter claims by a truckload of Thaksin haters explaining him that the PPP was far from winning and very far from getting any majority.

If PM Abhisit is appointed by 235 MP ( just two more than the initial PPP results) the same truckload of members argue he has a the clear majority of the votes and is of course entitled to send the army out to kill his opposition, the insurgents and terrorists, all is justified.

I never doubt that Abhisit has the majority, technically he has, but a PM, a country's leader needs more qualities than just a small small majority of MPs vote for him. He is not the man that can pacify the divided country. This government is a failure, they divided the country even more and do horrible damage that will need more than a generation to heal. Abhisit has become an ugly dictator.

There is not ONE MAN who can pacify a country in such straits.

But Abhisit is better than most, and I have no doubts what so ever he his agonized by all this.

At the same time he also must do his duty to restore order. Since the opposition is not a typical

group of farmers protesting a bad crop price, but a over the top radicalized group of hardcore

zealots out for blood, his job is much tougher. It will take what it takes to restore order,

and it can't be stopped now till order is restored. The reds will reap what they have sown.

But it will be sad for those who never had anything to do with this but are harmed by the fall out.

And why you are bothering with this election seat counting now is beyond me.

The country, except the red shirts, accepts Abhisit as the PM.

End of story.

Edited May 15, 2010 by animatic

[seahorse]

What's the point of joining a discussion forum if you're going to ignore anyone who doesn't agree with you? Kind of defeats the purpose right? If all you want to read is the same comments from the same side then just get a subscription to The Nation and be done with it?

I thought that too but there are a lot of posters that I have now put on my ignore list because they don't discuss, they just spout propaganda.

[bangkoklight]

Yep, I have to say I've been disappointed in CNN and BBC - the last one just started giving some bleeding heart spiel about how hard it is for protesters to lie on the floor for two months - please!

I guess part of the trouble is

i. they don't speak Thai and the majority have been flown in here from somewhere else, having read up from their own sources what is to be reported on.

ii. they are playing to int'l audience, who always love the 'poor protesters' versus 'authoritarian gov't' pitch.

Al Jazeera have had the best reports that i've seen, but haven't seen one from them today.

The BBC is the most unbiased news agency in the world. It is funded independently, not by taxpayers, but by individuals who want to use their service. And they do. And they have done for more than 50 years. If you slate the BBC, you slate all common sense. The BBC are not owned by the British government or the British military. If you want to be "disappointed" with a news agency, be "disappointed" with The Nation. Your name "dobadoy" says it all.

[CheeseHammer]

What's the point of joining a discussion forum if you're going to ignore anyone who doesn't agree with you? Kind of defeats the purpose right? If all you want to read is the same comments from the same side then just get a subscription to The Nation and be done with it?

I thought that too but there are a lot of posters that I have now put on my ignore list because they don't discuss, they just spout propaganda.

So just you and me right now?

[seahorse]

However you can't go around slandering the other side with all kinds of names, and then not expect to get some of those back on occasion. 'Terrorist' is another one of those words you may expect to get back. (Not by me of course, but don't start crying when you hear the word back to describe the actions of the military.)

How can government forces possibly be terrorists? It's a contradiction in terms.

[kissdani]

I am still concerned, you know the words: "First they came for the... - ... should i not speak up because i am not one of the 'idiots'?

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for me

and by that time no one was left to speak up."

Your analogy is misplaced. The groups referred to in Niemoller's poem were persecuted because of who they were and what they believed in. They were not throwing molotovs in the streets and attacking the army, the state infrastructure, and trying to overthrow the state.

You take my comment out of the context.

I was talking about the canadian Journalist who got shot, i am sure he wasn't throwing molotow cocktails and attacking the army. My post was a reply to a comment that called the journalist an 'idiot who has to blame his own stupidity'.

BTW. the communist at this time were blamed for the Reichstags fire and of course accused that they wanna overtrow the state, but tough emergency laws got them all, so it was still lawful.

---

Yenakard road (just down Sathorn soi 1) is now the parking lane for waiting ambulance cars on standby. And a friend from Bon Kai is my guest tonight, because the shooting in that area and the electricity is cut off there too.

[datum]

To those ranting on BBC and CNN being biased, consider that you may just be exposing your own bias!

Exactly! Especially when someone talks about CNN is extremely biased to say that CNN supports in general "demonstrations".

[Jingthing]

Al Jazeera English is the best.

[jitenshaman]

The BBC is the most unbiased news agency in the world. It is funded independently, not by taxpayers, but by individuals who want to use their service. And they do. And they have done for more than 50 years. If you slate the BBC, you slate all common sense. The BBC are not owned by the British government or the British military. If you want to be "disappointed" with a news agency, be "disappointed" with The Nation. Your name "dobadoy" says it all.

i would tend to agree with you. I respect the BBC, trust it, and rely on it for much of my world news..however, i remember during the coup in 2006, standing right next to Jonathan Head as he interviewed dozens and dozens of Bangkok residents about how "wasn't this coup such a setback for democracy in a country that had such a history of military control?" And everyone he talked to pretty much said that yes, it was unfortunate, but that it had gotten rid of someone who had abused power so badly, had been bloodless, and thus a good thing. Given what I already knew about Thaksin I had to agree with them completely.

[silk]

PM is on all channels now.... Dunno what he is saying. Anyone?

He is pleading w/Red Shirt Mob to allow/send women and children home because what has been started will not end and the reds must disperse.

this should have happened already long ago, they should not have been brought in the first place, although I think that some women in Thailand have made history being stronger than men (Two Heroines Monument in Phuket)

[CheeseHammer]

The BBC is the most unbiased news agency in the world. It is funded independently, not by taxpayers, but by individuals who want to use their service. And they do. And they have done for more than 50 years. If you slate the BBC, you slate all common sense. The BBC are not owned by the British government or the British military. If you want to be "disappointed" with a news agency, be "disappointed" with The Nation. Your name "dobadoy" says it all.

i would tend to agree with you. I respect the BBC, trust it, and rely on it for much of my world news..however, i remember during the coup in 2006, standing right next to Jonathan Head as he interviewed dozens and dozens of Bangkok residents about how "wasn't this coup such a setback for democracy in a country that had such a history of military control?" And everyone he talked to pretty much said that yes, it was unfortunate, but that it had gotten rid of someone who had abused power so badly, had been bloodless, and thus a good thing. Given what I already knew about Thaksin I had to agree with them completely.

So did the BBC report the truth or spin it?

[mommysboy]

Al Jazeera English is the best.

You know at times you come over as a very alternative person.

[Goshawk]

The BBC is the most unbiased news agency in the world. It is funded independently, not by taxpayers, but by individuals who want to use their service. And they do.

quite wrong...

it is a requirement of UK law that if you own a TV set, you must have a TV Licence (BBC subscription) whether you watch the BBC or not... There is no choice, you must pay for the BBC (or break the law)

[jitenshaman]

He is pleading w/Red Shirt Mob to allow/send women and children home because what has been started will not end and the reds must disperse.

He is following up a former senator and secretary for a children's foundation plea from yesterday. Why dont the Reds listen to this, it makes pretty dam_n common sense. Number one, it saves innocent lives. Or do the Reds think that then they can no longer keep spouting the innocent unarmed peacenik jargon anymore? Obviously, they will now accuse Abhisit of lying and demand of course that the troops withdraw first....ought to get a journalist on the phone to Thaksin to see what he thinks of letting out the kids and elderly.

[Jingthing]

Al Jazeera English is the best.

You know at times you come over as a very alternative person.

I am indeed but I draw the line at supporting Molotov cocktail/grenade throwing insurgents fighting for a corrupt billionaire in Montenegro.

[offissa]

PM is on all channels now.... Dunno what he is saying. Anyone?

He is pleading w/Red Shirt Mob to allow/send women and children home because what has been started will not end and the reds must disperse.

this should have happened already long ago, they should not have been brought in the first place, although I think that some women in Thailand have made history being stronger than men (Two Heroines Monument in Phuket)

Amazed at the number of posters on this forum who seem to think women are equivalent to children.

"Go home!" "Yes dear".