Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[BKjohn]

or it could be this one that gets the award

reds shooting a soldier

I wonder what response levelhead will have for this? Pretty disgusting really.

They will either make no comment at all or claim it was in self defense

what amazes me is that those soldiers were not armed ??? how are they supposed to defend themselves against those criminals?

They were obviously shit scared as they were pulled out of their truck

[animatic]

It is #3 that is in play, among other things. The current government DID call for early elections and that was agreed to by the protesters. The protesters subsequently reneged on that agreement due to their funder and chief, a fugitive from Thai justice pulling the plug on the agreement. They have since stepped up violent acts and the survival of the state itself hangs in the balance. There is no loyal opposition. A loyal opposition is fundamental to the election process, wouldn't you agree?

Yes, and I have to say that I was quite supportive of the PM's proposal for elections on November. And then, two days ago he decided that he will call the elections off because "the reds didn't keep their promises". Are we serious? If the reds are a mob of criminals as the government says was anyone expecting that they will keep their promises? What about a statement saying "I go with the plan for election on November and at the same time I take all legal measures to stop the demonstrations". He is the PM of a country, he is not a kid that will abandon his toy just to break the toy of the other kid! Generally I like him, he seems a calm, educated person but his governance style doesn't work out! It is to "amateur". It is not aboung being patient as some members say, I think it is about being non-decisive at all! When you are a PM, and especially one that want to bring change in a country, you have to make difficult but necessary decission. And these decisions have not been made so far IMHO.

There are really only two ways to proceed in Thailand. There is Abhisit's way, which may not succeed, whereby you try to neutralize all the variables in a highly entropic situation as the country undergoes the only succession its people have ever experienced, OR you let the military take over, who may not relinquish power after the succession. Those are the choices. You might imagine there are many other choices but really there are not if Thailand is to not become a failed state.

Sorry but you are completely wrong here regarding the basis of your argument "Abhisit or the Army". The choice is "Politics or the Army". Just by saying that only one politician can do things right you cancel the main principle of democracy which is that everyone has the right to govern.

My country made the mistake to create a similar dilemma almost 50 years ago "Mister X or the Army" instead of "Politicians or the Army". We made our choices and such a mess happened that we pay the consequences until today;

He is not saying ONLY Abhisit can do this,

he is saying there are two ways to go with this.

Not a thing about negating any priciple of democracy,

you read that in yourself.

[moetownblues]

or it could be this one that gets the award

reds shooting a soldier

I wonder what response levelhead will have for this? Pretty disgusting really.

I heard a shot and saw a wounded soldier. How do we know it was a red and not friendly fire. I saw red shirts providing aid to a wounded person. In the other video I saw a wounded person being shot at again to be put down like an animal.

[jcbangkok]

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

No. Not footage of him *being* shot.

Footage of him lying on the ground *after* having been shot.

Actually, if you watch carefully, he apparently gets shot in the leg @ 0:017-18. Even the narrator of the video indicates that.

Reds clearly should not be shooting reporters but why is this moron not wearing any protective gear or displaying in any way he is a reporter.

especially considering he's such an experienced reporter and all that.

.

In all seriousness, tragic situation and gov't need to try better to protect these guys while giving them access or reporters can easily turn on them in their reports but am I missing it or does he have absolutely nothing to report with - no camera, microphone, cameraman ... just sun glasses. Have a feeling he thought he was Rambo before getting hit and crying for help. One silver lining is I now see all reporters wearing helmets and vests clearly marked PRESS

[moetownblues]

or it could be this one that gets the award

reds shooting a soldier

I wonder what response levelhead will have for this? Pretty disgusting really.

They will either make no comment at all or claim it was in self defense

what amazes me is that those soldiers were not armed ??? how are they supposed to defend themselves against those criminals?

They were obviously shit scared as they were pulled out of their truck

look again the soldier in the back of the truck is armed.

[jcbangkok]

or it could be this one that gets the award

reds shooting a soldier

I wonder what response levelhead will have for this? Pretty disgusting really.

I heard a shot and saw a wounded soldier. How do we know it was a red and not friendly fire. I saw red shirts providing aid to a wounded person. In the other video I saw a wounded person being shot at again to be put down like an animal.

Because all deaths related to this illegal violent mob are the reds responsibility. As is the all the damage they have done to Thailand since holding the country hostage.

[Bottlerocket]

Thomas Jefferson

1787 Nov. 13. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure." (to W. S. Smith, B.12.356)

As terrible as all this is, it is a natural event in the maturation of civil society on the road to democratic liberty. If it wasn't for the many strikers who held the line many years ago and got their heads beat in for it, labor laws wouldn't exist as they do in Western society. Wait until that breaks out in Thailand. It will one day.

[ozzieman05]

There is now evidence of army shooting people waving white flags, army shooting children, army shooting red shirts in the head (how many are dead now from bullet wounds?).

This is not "international standards" and shows just how desperate that Abhisit and the Democrat/Bhumjaitai coalition are to cling to power and money at all costs......

Can you please point out, at what stage in the video, anyone was being shot.

And children??? You are part of the red propaganda parade, aren't you!!!

You can see a lot of the army guys are very young and scared

Scared because the Reds shits have no rules and are intent on hurting a destroying

So the correct word is self defense

The PM has set ground rules

any one who diosbeys these rules , do so on there own responsibilities

But as the old Thai saying goes

IF there Reds shirt where no illegally there and commiting illigal actions then there would be no need for the army to be there with guns

Stop twisting the facts

Te land the red shirts are ion does not belong to them, so there protest is illegal

Time to go home to your families who are worried about you

We know you do not believe in Democracy or the rights of others

But cn you at least have some thoughs fot those who love you, and must bear the pain if you are killed

[neverdie]

why do people keep posting the same video's over and over again? Didnt they notice them used umpteen other times in the thread

its to try to solicit a red spin answer from the red sympathisers on this board

they spout their red head rhetoric over and over but never answer when confronted with conflicting information

you may not have noticed but you have to tell the reds the same thing over and over before you get any kind of response

Red Head syndrome does that to you

Up to you.

[timekeeper]

or it could be this one that gets the award

reds shooting a soldier

I wonder what response levelhead will have for this? Pretty disgusting really.

I heard a shot and saw a wounded soldier. How do we know it was a red and not friendly fire. I saw red shirts providing aid to a wounded person. In the other video I saw a wounded person being shot at again to be put down like an animal.

yes of course

that's solved it for all of us

i am sorry but i think you have this disease:

Red Head Syndrome

this syndrome manifests itself by contradicting anyone who dares to speak badly of a red shirt supporter

sadly for some, red head syndrome can be a terminal disease

its predicted by experts in the country where it was first detected that there will be many deaths before it completely eradicated

its rumored a reclusive, megalomaniac, billionaire has isolated the cure for this serious psychosis but refuses to administer it for free for the benefit of the sufferers.

he expects to come to the country of its origin and make more billions from exploiting this red syndrome phenomenon

although the authorities would like access to a swift and painless cure for the sufferer's, they are reluctant to accept this billionaires extreme terms and conditions for the release of the cure to the infected masses

consequently they continue to work tirelessly to try stop this virus spreading any further and to try to contain it to one single area of contamination in the centre of Bangkok

government agencies currently have this area surrounded and is monitoring the inhabitants activities

its become apparent that one major symptom of the syndrome is the fear of being in enclosed spaces

some badly infected individuals have been trying to break out of this isolation area and have reacted violently towards their guards

its feared that some of the inhabitants of this isolation area will succumb to the violent effects that this syndrome can create within the host

for these sad individuals there can be no cure.

Copyright 2010 Timekeeperpedia @ curesforredheadsyndrome (dot) com

[noel2499rk]

.

In all seriousness, tragic situation and gov't need to try better to protect these guys while giving them access or reporters can easily turn on them in their reports but am I missing it or does he have absolutely nothing to report with - no camera, microphone, cameraman ... just sun glasses. Have a feeling he thought he was Rambo before getting hit and crying for help. One silver lining is I now see all reporters wearing helmets and vests clearly marked PRESS

There are still photos of the incident and was carrying very large video camera

[bangkokeddie]

Some posters here calling Nelson a idiot or inexperienced

"Nelson Rand is an intrepid adventurer. Despite the warnings and threats against his life, he journeyed into the most dangerous parts of Southeast Asia to witness the plight of the oppressed. He hiked through the jungles of Laos to interview Hmong guerillas, the remnants of the rebel army that refused to surrender to the communist government.

In Vietnam, he ventured into the central highlands to document the civil rights abuses suffered by the Montagard people, persecuted by the communist government because they fought alongside American forces in the Vietnam War.

He saw action in Burma where he joined forces with the Karen National Liberation Army and accompanied the insurgents as they mounted full scale attacks on Junta forces. Rand describes the Karen's plight as one of the worst humanitarian disasters of our time. He documented cases of rape, killings, torture and the forced relocation of Karen villages.

His audacious journey also took him to southern Thailand in search of Islamic extremists, who have turned the region into a war zone.

While travelling in Cambodia, he accompanied government soldiers on their final offensive against the Khmer Rouge. Rand's book is a highly informative but sobering portrait of Southeast Asia and its secret conflicts."

Its a very informative book actually and an easy read I can recommend it

From what you say, it sounds as if he's done some interesting journalism, but yesterday, in what was being described as a 'war zone', this "intrepid adventurer" elected :

1 - NOT to wear a green press armband

2 - NOT to wear a protective helmet

3 - NOT to wear a bullet-proof vest

4 - to dress in black

I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound like the most sensible behaviour to me!

In fact, the word "idiot" is the first one that sprang to my mind, too... I'm surprised he didn't finish off his little ensemble with a red bandanna!

e

[timekeeper]

why do people keep posting the same video's over and over again? Didnt they notice them used umpteen other times in the thread

its to try to solicit a red spin answer from the red sympathisers on this board

they spout their red head rhetoric over and over but never answer when confronted with conflicting information

you may not have noticed but you have to tell the reds the same thing over and over before you get any kind of response

Red Head syndrome does that to you

Up to you.

as they say in these parts........

[JacknDanny]

or it could be this one that gets the award

reds shooting a soldier

I wonder what response levelhead will have for this? Pretty disgusting really.

I heard a shot and saw a wounded soldier. How do we know it was a red and not friendly fire. I saw red shirts providing aid to a wounded person. In the other video I saw a wounded person being shot at again to be put down like an animal.

Take another ja baa pill and drink some more lao kao instead of posting this drivel here

You took the words right out of my mouth, pal!!

There appears to be a few of the' paid per inch ' mouths on here today!!

[noahvail]

I am seeing these reports and videos of "hundreds" of bullets being fired. I saw one video of a soldier replacing his empty magazine with another. Doesn't it seem the reported deaths and injuries are very low for all this shooting? Are these guys the worst shots in the world or is something else going on? Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see more people being shot, but it just doesn't add up.

OMG! HE CHANGED AN EMPTY MAGAZINE, AND GOT CAUGHT ON VIDEO! In most conflicts, it is normal for literally 100's of rounds to be fired per hit, especially with conscript troops or americans doing the shooting. I would expect each M-16 rifleman to be carrying close to 300 rounds.

In the dozens of videos I've seen, there have been nothing except single shots from the army. Standard issue is 30-shot clips, which, if on full automatic, will be gone in 2-1/2 seconds. You'd know it if someone was firing full automatic on you.

Carrying 300 rounds is not unusual for a soldier going into the height of the battle - 10 clips. Would you have them go into combat with 10 rounds?

"In most conflicts" ... are you talking about full-out war with machine gunners (accuracy by quantity)?

Here the soldiers are taking pains to shoot single shots every time. That speaks very well for the young conscripts who are seeing action for the first time.

[waza]

Some posters here calling Nelson a idiot or inexperienced

"Nelson Rand is an intrepid adventurer. Despite the warnings and threats against his life, he journeyed into the most dangerous parts of Southeast Asia to witness the plight of the oppressed. He hiked through the jungles of Laos to interview Hmong guerillas, the remnants of the rebel army that refused to surrender to the communist government.

In Vietnam, he ventured into the central highlands to document the civil rights abuses suffered by the Montagard people, persecuted by the communist government because they fought alongside American forces in the Vietnam War.

He saw action in Burma where he joined forces with the Karen National Liberation Army and accompanied the insurgents as they mounted full scale attacks on Junta forces. Rand describes the Karen's plight as one of the worst humanitarian disasters of our time. He documented cases of rape, killings, torture and the forced relocation of Karen villages.

His audacious journey also took him to southern Thailand in search of Islamic extremists, who have turned the region into a war zone.

While travelling in Cambodia, he accompanied government soldiers on their final offensive against the Khmer Rouge. Rand's book is a highly informative but sobering portrait of Southeast Asia and its secret conflicts."

Its a very informative book actually and an easy read I can recommend it

From what you say, it sounds as if he's done some interesting journalism, but yesterday, in what was being described as a 'war zone', this "intrepid adventurer" elected :

1 - NOT to wear a green press armband

2 - NOT to wear a protective helmet

3 - NOT to wear a bullet-proof vest

4 - to dress in black

I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound like the most sensible behaviour to me!

In fact, the word "idiot" is the first one that sprang to my mind, too... I'm surprised he didn't finish off his little ensemble with a red bandanna!

e

I would hazard a guess that his attire was purposefull, so he could mingle in the front lines of the demonstrators. His profile reads like an adrenaline junky, hats off to him, hes got balls.

[timekeeper]

or it could be this one that gets the award

reds shooting a soldier

I wonder what response levelhead will have for this? Pretty disgusting really.

They will either make no comment at all or claim it was in self defense

what amazes me is that those soldiers were not armed ??? how are they supposed to defend themselves against those criminals?

They were obviously shit scared as they were pulled out of their truck

look again the soldier in the back of the truck is armed.

yes he is, he did not want to use it so the reds took the gun away from him and used it against his comrades

how very brave of them.....

[neverdie]

Some posters here calling Nelson a idiot or inexperienced

"Nelson Rand is an intrepid adventurer. Despite the warnings and threats against his life, he journeyed into the most dangerous parts of Southeast Asia to witness the plight of the oppressed. He hiked through the jungles of Laos to interview Hmong guerillas, the remnants of the rebel army that refused to surrender to the communist government.

In Vietnam, he ventured into the central highlands to document the civil rights abuses suffered by the Montagard people, persecuted by the communist government because they fought alongside American forces in the Vietnam War.

He saw action in Burma where he joined forces with the Karen National Liberation Army and accompanied the insurgents as they mounted full scale attacks on Junta forces. Rand describes the Karen's plight as one of the worst humanitarian disasters of our time. He documented cases of rape, killings, torture and the forced relocation of Karen villages.

His audacious journey also took him to southern Thailand in search of Islamic extremists, who have turned the region into a war zone.

While travelling in Cambodia, he accompanied government soldiers on their final offensive against the Khmer Rouge. Rand's book is a highly informative but sobering portrait of Southeast Asia and its secret conflicts."

Its a very informative book actually and an easy read I can recommend it

From what you say, it sounds as if he's done some interesting journalism, but yesterday, in what was being described as a 'war zone', this "intrepid adventurer" elected :

1 - NOT to wear a green press armband

2 - NOT to wear a protective helmet

3 - NOT to wear a bullet-proof vest

4 - to dress in black

I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound like the most sensible behaviour to me!

In fact, the word "idiot" is the first one that sprang to my mind, too... I'm surprised he didn't finish off his little ensemble with a red bandanna!

e

One of the ten fatal errors, 'Complacency'.

[not5150]

I want to get this awesome bright green armband that provides a forcefield against bullets. (/sarcasm)

[animatic]

Where are you loudmouths who were posting 2 months ago that this thing would be over quickly and easily?

Where are you Thai paid posters who post Thai government propaganda and lies here?

Oh--you are still here.

But I told you to be careful because you might be on the wrong side. If the Reds win and find out you were posting pro regime hate posts, they will lock you up or worse.

But about the fight.

I read a Thai military leader say in an interview that there are at least 500 Thai military dressed in Black inside the buildings all around the War zone. They are heavily armed and prepared to use real bullets with even some artillery support.

There could be as many as a few thousand more outside the area.

So now my opinion.

I think it would be suicide to try and take out the Men in Black with just a few thousand troops. They have the defensive position at the Shopping center and likely the attacking pro government army would find itself being attacked from behind and from the sides as other Blacks moved in for the kill.

Can you imagine the next morning after a few thousand Thai army were killed and wounded?

The regime would cave.

Solutions?

Do the election.

Remove the power from all other than elected officials--a new Constitution.

Likely--no

Likely is the regime will fight until it is forced to surrender at which time its very survival as an institution will be very doubtful.

Can you bet on the sided in London boys?

I bet on the Reds.

Fear mongering to induce some to back letting the rally

keep disrupting the lives of Bangkok citizens indefinitely.

It's gone beyond that. They will finish the job, they have no choice.

[saintofsilence]

The Thai army wants to secure Lumpini Park bc it is being used extensively for m79 strikes that are landing in multiple civilian locations

http://twitter.com/WizardofWindsor

[benthai98]

look again the soldier in the back of the truck is armed.

This is kinda sad really.

I may be wrong but I can't imagine a mob of people would be able to approach a convoy of armed Australian soldiers. I would assume that as soon as a crowd came within a certain radius of teh vehicle guns would be pointed and ultimatums made.

The fear in the soldier's face and their reluctance to use their weapons just shows how difficult this situation is.

To be shot for your troubles is a little low though.

[ozzieman05]

Yes, we are heading to he Civil war, because of manipulations to create a coalition with a majority, even if it seems "legal".IMHO, the best thing to do for stopping the march to hel_l is to give back power to people immediately: immediate dissolution of parliament and elections.

It is the only way, it is still possible to stop the gearing to violence, but tomorrow or in very few days it will be too late....

========================================================================

You say the glass is half empty

I say the glass is half full

If the government gives into these thugs, who have proved they are only a minority in Thailand

They have shown they are not capable protecting the majority in Thailand and this will happen again and again

So Yes, we are heading to he Civil war, because Democracy allows a coalition to create a government

the best thing to do for stopping the march to hel_l is for red shirts to obey Thai law as there protest is no longer legal

give Thailand back power to people immediately:

It is the only way, it is still possible to stop the gearing to violence,

but tomorrow or in very few days it will be too late....

[draftvader]

Forgetting who is right or wrong I would like to finally loose it on here.

Mr Shinawatra you are a juvenile, pretentious, self-loving ars. Please stop this, these people are worth more than you. I don't even agree with them, but they travel from their homes to this big, strange city and put their lives on the line for you. You don't deserve it you horrible **** (you choose for favourite insult at this point....enjoy).

Just had enough of all this pointless death

Edited May 15, 2010 by draftvader

[BKjohn]

I am seeing these reports and videos of "hundreds" of bullets being fired. I saw one video of a soldier replacing his empty magazine with another. Doesn't it seem the reported deaths and injuries are very low for all this shooting? Are these guys the worst shots in the world or is something else going on? Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see more people being shot, but it just doesn't add up.

OMG! HE CHANGED AN EMPTY MAGAZINE, AND GOT CAUGHT ON VIDEO! In most conflicts, it is normal for literally 100's of rounds to be fired per hit, especially with conscript troops or americans doing the shooting. I would expect each M-16 rifleman to be carrying close to 300 rounds.

In the dozens of videos I've seen, there have been nothing except single shots from the army. Standard issue is 30-shot clips, which, if on full automatic, will be gone in 2-1/2 seconds. You'd know it if someone was firing full automatic on you.

Carrying 300 rounds is not unusual for a soldier going into the height of the battle - 10 clips. Would you have them go into combat with 10 rounds?

"In most conflicts" ... are you talking about full-out war with machine gunners (accuracy by quantity)?

Here the soldiers are taking pains to shoot single shots every time. That speaks very well for the young conscripts who are seeing action for the first time.

well said, if I had a violent mob of those reds coming towards me I know what setting on my weapon I would choose and order my men to select

[moetownblues]

Video footage here of Nelson Rand being shot, make of it what you will but for me this is the most damming video to come out in the last two months.

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vide...mayhem.cnn.html

Why is the idiot dressed in black wearing sunglasses with no visable signs of him being a reporter.Has he got shit for brains or did he think he was immune to bullets.

Regardless of who or what he is this was a wounded human being calling for help. Is the yellow shirt response to put the animal out of it's misery. civilised humans will help the injured not try and put then down. This was blatant attempted murder.

What are you going on about????

You say you are neither red or yellow shirt supporter, yet every nonsensical comment you make shows you nailing YOUR colours well and truly to the wall.

You come on here saying the red shirts are not armed now you are saying blatant attempted murder after having seen a video for a few seconds

You are truly red...... biased, illogical and daft.

Every post you have made on here has been pure red propaganda. Give it a rest mate.

I am niether red nor yellow as I said. If speaking out against inhuman acts of shooting people who are injured or waving a white flag in surrender makes me a red in your eyes then so be it. If this happened in afaganistan and an American, Aust or brit soldier shot a surrendering person they would be brought up on wars crimes. It is the acts I am commenting on not the colour the person is wearing. Tell me truely in your heart if you really believe shooting injured and surrending people is justified regardless of where it is happening.

[ozzieman05]

Yes, we are heading to he Civil war, because of manipulations to create a coalition with a majority, even if it seems "legal".IMHO, the best thing to do for stopping the march to hel_l is to give back power to people immediately: immediate dissolution of parliament and elections.

It is the only way, it is still possible to stop the gearing to violence, but tomorrow or in very few days it will be too late....

========================================================================

You say the glass is half empty

I say the glass is half full

If the government gives into these thugs, who have proved they are only a minority in Thailand

They have shown they are not capable protecting the majority in Thailand and this will happen again and again

So Yes, we are heading to he Civil war, because Democracy allows a coalition to create a government

the best thing to do for stopping the march to hel_l is for red shirts to obey Thai law as there protest is no longer legal

give Thailand streets back to people to the people who use is leagally immediately:

It is the only way, it is still possible to stop the gearing to violence,

but tomorrow or in very few days it will be too late....

[neverdie]

look again the soldier in the back of the truck is armed.

This is kinda sad really.

I may be wrong but I can't imagine a mob of people would be able to approach a convoy of armed Australian soldiers. I would assume that as soon as a crowd came within a certain radius of teh vehicle guns would be pointed and ultimatums made.

The fear in the soldier's face and their reluctance to use their weapons just shows how difficult this situation is.

To be shot for your troubles is a little low though.

Yes, very disturbing stuff. Here we have armed soldiers that didnt want to use their weapons on their fellow countrymen (this is clear) BUT the MOB MENTALITY took over and they were beaten & one of them shot for their consideration. How does anyone make sense of that?

[rabo]

Watched an interesting discussion last night by a group of Thai's - the consensus was very much the same. Abhisit has no choice but to go through with this. He can not allow anymore half arsed actions by the army. The time has come to put an end to the occupation of Bangkok. The Thai's are fat up with those morons dictating their lives. They pointed out how some of the red shirt leaders jumped at the "road map' for an acceptable way out and everybody breathed a sigh of relieve. but within a couple of day's, unreasonable demands were issued by some of the rd leaders who were not going to accept anything but surrender from the government. By doing so putting an end to negotiations.

They agreed that if anyone is to blame for any casualties. it is the red leadership and their General Thaksin.

One point they raised was that the red shirt leaders would not be able to walk the streets anymore without a large group of body guards because they have many enemies now and not only among the "elite", but also the normal Thai on the street who has been severely affected by all this anarchy.

Found this quite refreshing to listen to Thai's who were quite objective about the whole thing, having an intelligent discussion when compared to the redist morons here on the forum.

Amen, 90% of the Thais have quite reasonably thought out views and an understanding of events, no matter what political leaning they may have. Although I have my views, I've had no trouble holding long, civil discussions with Thais on all sides at all levels. One can only wonder what is going on in this forum.

A quick look at some of the forums in the west (try CNNs) shows this seems to be a Western problem.

[pimay11]

Jerrytheyoung:

Yes, we are heading to he Civil war, because of manipulations to create a coalition with a majority, even if it seems "legal".IMHO, the best thing to do for stopping the march to hel_l is to give back power to people immediately: immediate dissolution of parliament and elections.

It is the only way, it is still possible to stop the gearing to violence, but tomorrow or in very few days it will be too late....

Come on Jerry 'fess up. You are really Thaksin in disguise right?