More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[naughtybadfurrimunki]

Sorry. I must be a troll for wanting the military to stay the <deleted> out of politics! They have no place in this day and age. They have to learn Thaksins game instead.

This.

The current revolt has been precipitated by the oligarchs - the corrupt

feudal families. Thaksin is their hero

What utter nonsense.

I think you'll find these families are firmly on the opposing side to Thaksin, for quite obvious reasons.

Newin anyone?

I'm afraid you've completely (intentionally?) misinterpreted what was written.

It is the feudal families (phu yai bahn, local mafia etc) in the rural parts of Thailand that benefited during Mr T's time as PM. It is these local groups that have so much to gain if Mr T is returned to power. The local people controlled by these groups (average Mr & Mrs Red Shirt) have nothing to gain - quite the opposite actually. It's such a shame they've been tricked and brainwashed to the extent they have.

[iciparis]

Thai army snipers in action

If that are snipers, you better go back to K-1 you Mo##@n

[daboyz1]

This used to be a good information site with good views and posts... Now all I mostly see is crap posts and how they deserve this and they deserve that....Very few seem to be even slightly sorry that THESE PEOPLE ARE BEING KILLED... for mostly nothing more than being in the wrong place or choosing to have an opinion and standing up for it ... I REPEAT THEY DO NOT DESERVE TO DIE... They deserve LIFE, nothing less it is the so called government who have ordered the army in and started killing in big numbers indiscriminately. The Killing MUST stop and the army pull back this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut and cannot be justified.

This is not accidental shootings mostly this is pre targeted sniper fire ... these people are being assassinated in front of the world and all most of you can do is talk shit about them probably being terrorists or criminals and how inconvenient it is for everyone etc...

Shame on most of you for your apathetic and inhumane attitudes, you make me sick pretending to sit on your moral high ground.... every one of you has a dodgy government not to mention your faults and im sure plenty of you are betraying their other halves etc so spare us the holy insight of what the protesters deserve you bunch of rubberneckers....

Look! Nobody forced them to do this. I doubt anyone wants any one killed. They brought it on themselves. You seem British. Were you fine with the IRA dropping bombs in London trash cans? What a Hypocrite. You sir are an a$$. People here have relatives, businesses etc. that are affected by this mess. I live under a "dodgy" govt. but I dont throw petrol bombs, I vote. These terrorists had a shot to vote in November... a year early. They didn't take it. They want violence, and their daddy back from Dubai. Anyone that thinks different is really off the mark.

[whiterussian]

Let me tell you what I mean giving my wife as an example. She is neither Red nor Yellow and I think she is in the majority. She perceives, as do most people she knows that the Reds have gone to Bangkok in order to create violence on behalf of the former PM Thaksin. She thinks they should be stopped and because she does, at this moment in time she has the same interests as someone who might classify themselves in the "yellow shirt" camp. She is not one of then however.

I dont doubt it lannarebirth, and I wish both sides could have such a level head. But if there is one thing I do know about Thai's is that they hold grudges!

here is a good article by the world government - The Council on Foreign Relations - expect the USA (Hilary) and west to echo this sentiment:

http://www.cfr.org/publication/22131/thail...g_violence.html

Most critically, there has been a fundamental change in Thai politics, in which the poor and those alienated from institutions like the army, civil service, and palace finally have demanded their rights. If the middle class and elites do not recognize that Thai politics has changed, and that they must change along with it, more demonstrations will break out, perhaps in the run-up to the next election--set for the fall, but still uncertain. Further bloodletting of red shirt demonstrators is not likely to calm the situation.

What I have been saying all along, the PAD and yellows must play Thaksin's game. If they can't.... they lose. Somnamnah. - the alternative is a Burma/N Korea... or should the minority refuse to play the populist game ... a Nepal.

Edited May 16, 2010 by whiterussian

[chrislarsson]

Surely it's time to roll in the tanks? It's not like our past gov'ts have been tank shy. They (like all gov'ts) can spin it to their heart's content after the fact. "Oh, those were just 'light tanks' and the only people getting killed were the Reds who were shooting each other. They were like Dawn of the Dead zombies."

I really hope it does not come to that.

Considering the past performance of the army, I don't think that would be a good idea. Just imagine the chaos if the reds managed to take over tanks and start using them against the army.

[Insight]

Armed men in black in action

OK. Red shirt supporters. Defend that!!

send it to cnn, bbc

It's difficult to get their attention (or they're just blatantly ignoring it). If informed by enough people however...

Sure we'll see more video evidence of the "black shirts" come out. They look very well trained to by uninformed eyes, but must be impossible for them to stay completely out of sight in daylight.

[LivinLOS]

I have been surprised myself: just a personal story

"one day I have to move some belongings from South Thailand to Nong Khai. I make a deal with an issan farmer owner of a pick up.

I have been surprised, exceptional very fast delivery: he drives from Nong Khai to Hat Yai and back without sleeping (total nearly 3500km/4000km). How can be? The driver shows me a plastic bag full of leaves that he was chewing...I describe the leaves to a farang friend who has some knowledge about this kind of things: he told me it is coca..." And apparently everybody in the village is well aware about those leaves...."

You know nothing.. Its NOT coca.. Wrong continent !!

Try Khratom

[h90]

quote;

The soldiers seemed constantly caught off-balance by agitators showing a grasp of insurgency that may well derive from their time as army conscripts. They shot M-79 grenades, which can kill within five yards. They aimed slingshots with deadly accuracy. They let off makeshift cannons. Some blazed away with pistols. A Buddhist monk was seen to launch a glowing fire-lantern, normally used in religious rites, into the sky to ward off helicopters. Others fired home-made rockets at the choppers.The wildness was fuelled by more than fury. Crates of Red Bull, the energy drink, were by a barricade where edgy soldiers fingered their assault rifles. A mixture of cheap whiskey and amphetamines was said to be keeping many of their enemies on their toes.

quote

i don't understand. this is saying the former conscripts learned something the current conscripts have not been taught?

they teach insurgency in basic training?

thai army armed with slingshots?

thai army buys makeshift cannon from us defense contractors?

army conscripts taught to blaze away with pistols?

but they only have slingshots?

quote

The quote is about the reds - a bit confused but ok - it is a known fact that a lot of the reds, if not most use Ja baa - every drug dealer must have rushed to the scene once it started to make a killing. The problem with amphetamines is that they give them a lot of energy and cause severe paranoia and delusions as can also be seen with the red supporters on TV. Another side effect is aggression.

Basically the army has to deal with total maniacs

quote

Every Issaner farmer knows the virtue of chewing the leaves of Coca.... they do not need amphetamines

quote

Wow ---- now Jerry is saying every Isaan farmer uses drugs? Jerry you are further hurting your cause! As for coca being grown in Thailand on any scale ... Jerry are you SURE you have ever been in Thailand? In the past poppies (used in the production of opium that can be refined into heroin) was fairly comon. That Yaa Baa enters the country from Laos and Burma is comon knowledge but coca? hmmm I better do some reading! Maybe I can find a reference to coca being grown here somewhere!

I have been surprised myself: just a personal story

"one day I have to move some belongings from South Thailand to Nong Khai. I make a deal with an issan farmer owner of a pick up.

I have been surprised, exceptional very fast delivery: he drives from Nong Khai to Hat Yai and back without sleeping (total nearly 3500km/4000km). How can be? The driver shows me a plastic bag full of leaves that he was chewing...I describe the leaves to a farang friend who has some knowledge about this kind of things: he told me it is coca..." And apparently everybody in the village is well aware about those leaves...."

I know these leaves from the south. A policeman always offer them to me for free. Once I asked if that is coca, they told me no, but something similar.

But there was so much lost in translation, that I am not sure on anything, beside that it is illegal and everyone knows it.

[mccw]

51% for crackdown... yeah... songkran in over and next exciting thing new year is few months away... some action in the middle of the year is always welcome... who cares for the dead... and everybody thought Buddhism taught ahimsa... another religion of peace..

seems the reds are more in to black majick; maybe after this is over and in the dock they'll plead they were in habitted by evil spirits and couldnt control/ be responsible for thier actions

[Thai at Heart]

I have been surprised myself: just a personal story

"one day I have to move some belongings from South Thailand to Nong Khai. I make a deal with an issan farmer owner of a pick up.

I have been surprised, exceptional very fast delivery: he drives from Nong Khai to Hat Yai and back without sleeping (total nearly 3500km/4000km). How can be? The driver shows me a plastic bag full of leaves that he was chewing...I describe the leaves to a farang friend who has some knowledge about this kind of things: he told me it is coca..." And apparently everybody in the village is well aware about those leaves...."

99.99% sure kratong leaves.

http://www.azarius.net/smartshop/psychedel...om_leaves_thai/

We are not in Colombia.

[pimay11]

Jerrytheyoung:

Every Issaner farmer knows the virtue of chewing the leaves of Coca.... they do not need amphetamines

Jerry I would advise you that if you ever make it to Thailand you visit Esaan and further your education.

I have lived in Isaan for over eleven years and traveled over the entire area. I have many Thai friends throughout Esaan. I have attended numerous all night parties which are very common here. Not one time have I ever heard of coca being grown in Isaan. Not one time have I seen anyone using coca in Isaan. Your statement is simply not true. Shame on you Jerry. If you are an honest poster please retract this statement.

Yes there is yaba here from time to time but no more or less than in any other Thai province.

[mccw]

quote;

The soldiers seemed constantly caught off-balance by agitators showing a grasp of insurgency that may well derive from their time as army conscripts. They shot M-79 grenades, which can kill within five yards. They aimed slingshots with deadly accuracy. They let off makeshift cannons. Some blazed away with pistols. A Buddhist monk was seen to launch a glowing fire-lantern, normally used in religious rites, into the sky to ward off helicopters. Others fired home-made rockets at the choppers.The wildness was fuelled by more than fury. Crates of Red Bull, the energy drink, were by a barricade where edgy soldiers fingered their assault rifles. A mixture of cheap whiskey and amphetamines was said to be keeping many of their enemies on their toes.

quote

i don't understand. this is saying the former conscripts learned something the current conscripts have not been taught?

they teach insurgency in basic training?

thai army armed with slingshots?

thai army buys makeshift cannon from us defense contractors?

army conscripts taught to blaze away with pistols?

but they only have slingshots?

quote

The quote is about the reds - a bit confused but ok - it is a known fact that a lot of the reds, if not most use Ja baa - every drug dealer must have rushed to the scene once it started to make a killing. The problem with amphetamines is that they give them a lot of energy and cause severe paranoia and delusions as can also be seen with the red supporters on TV. Another side effect is aggression.

Basically the army has to deal with total maniacs

quote

Every Issaner farmer knows the virtue of chewing the leaves of Coca.... they do not need amphetamines

quote

Wow ---- now Jerry is saying every Isaan farmer uses drugs? Jerry you are further hurting your cause! As for coca being grown in Thailand on any scale ... Jerry are you SURE you have ever been in Thailand? In the past poppies (used in the production of opium that can be refined into heroin) was fairly comon. That Yaa Baa enters the country from Laos and Burma is comon knowledge but coca? hmmm I better do some reading! Maybe I can find a reference to coca being grown here somewhere!

I have been surprised myself: just a personal story

"one day I have to move some belongings from South Thailand to Nong Khai. I make a deal with an issan farmer owner of a pick up.

I have been surprised, exceptional very fast delivery: he drives from Nong Khai to Hat Yai and back without sleeping (total nearly 3500km/4000km). How can be? The driver shows me a plastic bag full of leaves that he was chewing...I describe the leaves to a farang friend who has some knowledge about this kind of things: he told me it is coca..." And apparently everybody in the village is well aware about those leaves...."

I know these leaves from the south. A policeman always offer them to me for free. Once I asked if that is coca, they told me no, but something similar.

But there was so much lost in translation, that I am not sure on anything, beside that it is illegal and everyone knows it.

its kratom, simillar like speead, chew it or boil it up in a brew and take with cough med for extra effect. it is actualy illegal but widely used

Edited May 16, 2010 by mccw

[frodo]

I am in Bangkok and have been throughout these protests. For people outside the country looking in it is difficult to understand the situation. It is easy to sympathize with poor people protesting for a better life. That is not the case here in Bangkok. Poor people have been paid to protest and are being used as human shields to protect militants in the Red movement. These protests are controlled by former PM Thaksin in an effort to overthrow the current government which is legitimate and elected. Perhaps more so than the former PPP government which was disbanded due to electoral fraud.

I am dismayed to see the foreign press portraying the victims of the current voilence as civilians. It is true that they have taken off their red uniforms but within the protesters there are armed terrorists fighting a guerilla style war. They are not civilians in the true sense. Everyone in Bangkok understands which streets are currently restricted by the security forces. The only reason protesters venture into those areas is to attack the soldiers. Using slingshots, M79 grenades, moltov cocktails, guns, and other weapons they are fighting with the army. If they were not attempting to breach the government barricades they would not be in immediate danger.

Journalists have been injured, they are going into dangerous areas and are difficult to discern from the Red fighters who have no uniform. Shooting journalists intentionally and blaming the army would certainly be in the protesters interests to bring international condemnation. Journalists in the area are often under the protection of the army, and should use their own judgement as to whether it is safe to enter areas with gun battles ongoing.

Last night with 2km of my home well outside the protest zone there was a grenade attack at the Bangkok Bank at Khae Rai, there is a secondary protest at the Thaicom offices less than one km from this attack. Even outside the downtown there is danger for the true civilians of Bangkok, and that danger will not diminish until the protests end.

The leaders of the Red protest can at any time order the end of the protest and allow the people to return to their homes. This would be followed immediately by a ceasefire from the army. As long as they remain calling for the violent overthrow of the government people are in danger. Criminals should put their arms down first, not the police.

'...I agree totally. What the press are referring to as civilians are clearly Red-shirt activist, not innocent men, women and children.

Unless you are the Thai Military you have absolutely no right or reason to be anywhere near this war zone and it can be assumed if you are there you are up to no good.

The only true civilians are the innocent ones caught up in this because they live in the area and they need to stay indoors and become invisible'.

©2010theMagician

themagician, your last line says it all. None of these people deserve to be caught up in this.

[jefro]

The 'Thai Sniper' in the video posted earlier is using a variant of an M16, Model 655 M16A1. It's basically an M16 with a heavier barrel and scope mounted on the grabhandle.

Common weapon for platoon designated sharpshooters to use in Thailand. It is not a specialised sniper rifle. IMHO the guy shooting is regular army and not a sniper.

Also M16 does NOT fire a .308 cartridge which was claimed to have hit Sae Daneg.

[ETatBKK]

looting and arson spreading, tesco lotus

whatever it is true or a rumour, IF reds do it, with the current level of security forces there is no counter measure to stop them ( or prevent it to be happened ).

that the riot will be escalated and becomes an disaster !

i see on thai tv pbs

The govt may very well let them loot... and concentrate on the main body of the protests. Would be interesting to see what items are being looted. I know that during the LA riots big screen tv's and liquor were the hot items.

NOT YET, Tesco Lotus just too close to the burning tyres and has risk of fire.

don't really want it to be happened !

[brahmburgers]

THE NATION: RT @freakingcat: MRT Khlong Toei all cc tVs destroyed, all street lights destroyed at Khlong Toei last night by gang on motorbikes

it appears they're still doing their 'peaceful' protest

ThaivisaNews: "Khlong Toei stage gets also fortified as trucks with tyres arriving constantly. Posters: 'Don't kill our people'" /via @freakingcat

If troops have the place cordoned off, then let's hope they can keep out truckloads of tires. .....and razor wire, and whatever other disturbing items the Reds are bringing in.

ThaivisaNews: Redshirts taken away by ambulance who had inhaled too much smoke. /via @vaitor

Are there cops there to cuff them and haul them out of harms way, or are they going to let the punks back on the street like some sicko version of urban rugby.

From Thaivisa Facebook: Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, Jaturon

Chaisaeng, Thaksin's wife and kids already left the country. Is that some kind of indicator?!?

Is Jaturon the same person as Jatuporn (or Jatupon, as I would spell it)?

Rats leaving a sinking ship comes to mind.

[otherstuff1957]

I've heard it repeatedly said that many of the Red Guards were former Rangers. The Rangers, also called hunters, are not regular soldiers. Here is a little info about them:

Global Security Website

Thahan Prahan (Royal Thai Rangers)

The Thahan Phrahan (Hunter Soldiers or Rangers) were originally formed in 1978 to clear Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) guerrillas from mountain strongholds in Thailand's northeast. Some of its initial recruits were convicted criminals whose sentences were remitted; others joined to obtain parcels of land granted as a reward for successful campaigns. They are a paramilitary light infantry force led by regular officers and NCOs, with other ranks comprised of full-time and part-time personnel. Roughly one-third of these regional-level troops are given more advanced training to become an army-level force. The RTA's paramilitary Thahan Prahan, one of the front-line guards of Thailand's often ill-defined and porous borders, completed a major reorganization and downsizing in late 2001. The reorganization was due to changes in the threats on Thailand's eastern and western borders as well as RTA budget cuts. The total strength is believed to be about 11,000, around half the number reached a decade ago ...............

...........However, the Rangers have had a troubled history, with units often accused of atrocities, abuses of authority and involvement in the drug trade. It has also been reported in the past, these units included a large majority of local thugs who often made use of their Thahan Prahan status to continue to commit crimes against their fellow citizens.

________________________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________

Here's Sae Dang's link to the Rangers:

Washington Times

________________________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________________

And Reuters on the possible Black shirt - Rangers link.

Reuters

Edited May 16, 2010 by otherstuff1957

[mccw]

Every Issaner farmer knows the virtue of chewing the leaves of Coca.... they do not need amphetamines

Jerry I would advise you that if you ever make it to Thailand you visit Esaan and further your education.

I have lived in Isaan for over eleven years and traveled over the entire area. I have many Thai friends throughout Esaan. I have attended numerous all night parties which are very common here. Not one time have I ever heard of coca being grown in Isaan. Not one time have I seen anyone using coca in Isaan. Your statement is simply not true. Shame on you Jerry. If you are an honest poster please retract this statement.

Yes there is yaba here from time to time but no more or less than in any other Thai province.

dont know about eesan but up north kratom is grow naturaly in the forest, i've tried it a few times, like natural spped same like coca effect.

[rogerx007]

Why those snipers allowing themselves to be photographed ????

[Jerrytheyoung]

I am not a specialist so: OK thanks for the information, it is not Coca it is Kratom....

I apologize but the result is the same.

[nickupton]

THE NATION: RT @rrystrom:My mother-in-law said pppl wanted 2 bring home their children&old ppl from rajprasong yday but was refused 2leave by r-guards..

If this is true than this is really low...

Was talking to someone yesterday from Burirum who although still very unhappy and distrustful of the government told me that a small group of them had been at the protest for a few weeks (unpaid and never promised payment) and did not agree with the violence being used by some factions of the reds. When they asked for their id cards back the request was refused but very sensibly they had left the protest site anyway in fear of their lives.

Incidently this was the first red supporter I have met that had an open attitude of talking about people's differences and trying to compromise. Perhaps if these people had been leading the protest then this mess wouldn't have happened. But then Thaksin never wanted moderates to lead his chaos.

[pimay11]

quote;

The soldiers seemed constantly caught off-balance by agitators showing a grasp of insurgency that may well derive from their time as army conscripts. They shot M-79 grenades, which can kill within five yards. They aimed slingshots with deadly accuracy. They let off makeshift cannons. Some blazed away with pistols. A Buddhist monk was seen to launch a glowing fire-lantern, normally used in religious rites, into the sky to ward off helicopters. Others fired home-made rockets at the choppers.The wildness was fuelled by more than fury. Crates of Red Bull, the energy drink, were by a barricade where edgy soldiers fingered their assault rifles. A mixture of cheap whiskey and amphetamines was said to be keeping many of their enemies on their toes.

quote

i don't understand. this is saying the former conscripts learned something the current conscripts have not been taught?

they teach insurgency in basic training?

thai army armed with slingshots?

thai army buys makeshift cannon from us defense contractors?

army conscripts taught to blaze away with pistols?

but they only have slingshots?

quote

The quote is about the reds - a bit confused but ok - it is a known fact that a lot of the reds, if not most use Ja baa - every drug dealer must have rushed to the scene once it started to make a killing. The problem with amphetamines is that they give them a lot of energy and cause severe paranoia and delusions as can also be seen with the red supporters on TV. Another side effect is aggression.

Basically the army has to deal with total maniacs

quote

Every Issaner farmer knows the virtue of chewing the leaves of Coca.... they do not need amphetamines

quote

Wow ---- now Jerry is saying every Isaan farmer uses drugs? Jerry you are further hurting your cause! As for coca being grown in Thailand on any scale ... Jerry are you SURE you have ever been in Thailand? In the past poppies (used in the production of opium that can be refined into heroin) was fairly comon. That Yaa Baa enters the country from Laos and Burma is comon knowledge but coca? hmmm I better do some reading! Maybe I can find a reference to coca being grown here somewhere!

I have been surprised myself: just a personal story

"one day I have to move some belongings from South Thailand to Nong Khai. I make a deal with an issan farmer owner of a pick up.

I have been surprised, exceptional very fast delivery: he drives from Nong Khai to Hat Yai and back without sleeping (total nearly 3500km/4000km). How can be? The driver shows me a plastic bag full of leaves that he was chewing...I describe the leaves to a farang friend who has some knowledge about this kind of things: he told me it is coca..." And apparently everybody in the village is well aware about those leaves...."

I live not far from Kong Khai. My farms are close to Nong Khai. You may be able to convince some people on this board of your nonsense but not me. I know this is a total fabrication 100%.

[mccw]

I am not a specialist so: OK thanks for the information, it is not Coca it is Kratom....

I apologize but the result is the same.

i expect the guards are all on the strong stuff, yaba could keep em up for days, they cant rotate like army troops and with the food shortage could do with not feeling hungry.

you know methamphetamine was invented by german scientists working for the the allies and was standard issue for troops in WW2, the side with the best drug won !

[kissdani]

I have been surprised myself: just a personal story

"one day I have to move some belongings from South Thailand to Nong Khai. I make a deal with an issan farmer owner of a pick up.

I have been surprised, exceptional very fast delivery: he drives from Nong Khai to Hat Yai and back without sleeping (total nearly 3500km/4000km). How can be? The driver shows me a plastic bag full of leaves that he was chewing...I describe the leaves to a farang friend who has some knowledge about this kind of things: he told me it is coca..." And apparently everybody in the village is well aware about those leaves...."

Guava leaves (that fruit called Farang) or Kratom leaves are probably the drug/herb in question.

same same coca (but different too)

[ChouDoufu]

Every Issaner farmer knows the virtue of chewing the leaves of Coca.... they do not need amphetamines Jerry I would advise you that if you ever make it to Thailand you visit Esaan and further your education. I have lived in Isaan for over eleven years and traveled over the entire area. I have many Thai friends throughout Esaan. I have attended numerous all night parties which are very common here. Not one time have I ever heard of coca being grown in Isaan. Not one time have I seen anyone using coca in Isaan. Your statement is simply not true. Shame on you Jerry. If you are an honest poster please retract this statement. Yes there is yaba here from time to time but no more or less than in any other Thai province.

please don't take this personal, but could you guys stick to the topic please?

and if off-topic, stick to that topic without arguing over grammar or nomenclature.

"Effects come on within five to ten minutes after use, and last for several hours. Kratom has both stimulating and depressant qualities as if chewing coca leaves and smoking opium simultaneously. Some sources say that it is a stimulant in lower doses, becoming sedative in higher doses. The dominant effects seem to be similar to opiate drugs"

so one guy mentions chewing some leaves....

and another guy says coca....

now we're in a war over south america versus southeast asia.

c'mon, some farmers chew some leaves as a stimulant.

let's not get in a pissing contest over who has the largest............vocabulary.

remember english is not the native language of some posters.

give them the benefit of the doubt.

argue over something more important

[lazygourmet]

I have been surprised myself: just a personal story

"one day I have to move some belongings from South Thailand to Nong Khai. I make a deal with an issan farmer owner of a pick up.

I have been surprised, exceptional very fast delivery: he drives from Nong Khai to Hat Yai and back without sleeping (total nearly 3500km/4000km). How can be? The driver shows me a plastic bag full of leaves that he was chewing...I describe the leaves to a farang friend who has some knowledge about this kind of things: he told me it is coca..." And apparently everybody in the village is well aware about those leaves...."

99.99% sure kratong leaves.

http://www.azarius.net/smartshop/psychedel...om_leaves_thai/

We are not in Colombia.

Khratom leaves are widely available all around Thailand -under the table- in most rural markets.

They are mainly used -as a stimulant- by truck drivers and construction workers.

While living in Koh Phangan, I had these trees in my garden.

Growing the tree is legal... but sale or consumption of it is not.

[TAWP]

Well it is patently obvious that the supposed "rules" of engagement have gone out of the window. I don't blame the army. It was in someways to be absolutely expected

However, looking at the videos, I am quite surprised at the lack of armored vehicles being used. I am no warfare strategy expert, and this is an urban environment. However, if you want to command the streets, wouldn't it part of the plan to use tanks and APC's.

Maybe they think it doesn't look good on the streets, but with youtube and the worlds media watching quite intently, who cares. Maybe the tank groups they have are perceived as not very effective and that the "red militia" would know only too well how to handle them?

The situation seems to be barely under control, not wanting to wish anything bad to happen in Bangkok, but lets hope to God this doesn't spread out into the provinces. If that starts, who knows where the mess will end.

Every time they bring out the APCs the red seem to be able to get their hands on them [as the soldiers are not shooting to kill on sight] and once the reds have armoured APCs they will be much harder to remove.

[h90]

quote;

The soldiers seemed constantly caught off-balance by agitators showing a grasp of insurgency that may well derive from their time as army conscripts. They shot M-79 grenades, which can kill within five yards. They aimed slingshots with deadly accuracy. They let off makeshift cannons. Some blazed away with pistols. A Buddhist monk was seen to launch a glowing fire-lantern, normally used in religious rites, into the sky to ward off helicopters. Others fired home-made rockets at the choppers.The wildness was fuelled by more than fury. Crates of Red Bull, the energy drink, were by a barricade where edgy soldiers fingered their assault rifles. A mixture of cheap whiskey and amphetamines was said to be keeping many of their enemies on their toes.

quote

i don't understand. this is saying the former conscripts learned something the current conscripts have not been taught?

they teach insurgency in basic training?

thai army armed with slingshots?

thai army buys makeshift cannon from us defense contractors?

army conscripts taught to blaze away with pistols?

but they only have slingshots?

quote

The quote is about the reds - a bit confused but ok - it is a known fact that a lot of the reds, if not most use Ja baa - every drug dealer must have rushed to the scene once it started to make a killing. The problem with amphetamines is that they give them a lot of energy and cause severe paranoia and delusions as can also be seen with the red supporters on TV. Another side effect is aggression.

Basically the army has to deal with total maniacs

quote

Every Issaner farmer knows the virtue of chewing the leaves of Coca.... they do not need amphetamines

quote

Wow ---- now Jerry is saying every Isaan farmer uses drugs? Jerry you are further hurting your cause! As for coca being grown in Thailand on any scale ... Jerry are you SURE you have ever been in Thailand? In the past poppies (used in the production of opium that can be refined into heroin) was fairly comon. That Yaa Baa enters the country from Laos and Burma is comon knowledge but coca? hmmm I better do some reading! Maybe I can find a reference to coca being grown here somewhere!

I have been surprised myself: just a personal story

"one day I have to move some belongings from South Thailand to Nong Khai. I make a deal with an issan farmer owner of a pick up.

I have been surprised, exceptional very fast delivery: he drives from Nong Khai to Hat Yai and back without sleeping (total nearly 3500km/4000km). How can be? The driver shows me a plastic bag full of leaves that he was chewing...I describe the leaves to a farang friend who has some knowledge about this kind of things: he told me it is coca..." And apparently everybody in the village is well aware about those leaves...."

I know these leaves from the south. A policeman always offer them to me for free. Once I asked if that is coca, they told me no, but something similar.

But there was so much lost in translation, that I am not sure on anything, beside that it is illegal and everyone knows it.

its kratom, simillar like speead, chew it or boil it up in a brew and take with cough med for extra effect. it is actualy illegal but widely used

Confirmed! After image google, it is the same.

One of the first time in Thailand, no language skills yet, I was traveling already 32 hours, I got this. It did not has any effect (so I did think). I felt complete normal. But than it was already 40 hours without bed......Normally you don't feel normal 40 hours after you have last seen a bed....So it is a mild drug which makes you wake up.

[daboyz1]

I am not a specialist so: OK thanks for the information, it is not Coca it is Kratom....

I apologize but the result is the same.

i expect the guards are all on the strong stuff, yaba could keep em up for days, they cant rotate like army troops and with the food shortage could do with not feeling hungry.

you know methamphetamine was invented by german scientists working for the the allies and was standard issue for troops in WW2, the side with the best drug won !

Also LSD. The famous bike ride!

[SICA]

Seemed some of those people lived there.. That IS home !!

This is beyond being pro one side or pro another side.. Come back from the brink.. Its never OK to start shooting people who do not pose a threat.. End of.

Seems? Look they knew where they were. Behind a tire barrier in a live fire zone. It's a video clip.... you don't see what happens before the shooting started. CNN edited the clip to show what they wanted you to see.

But I'll ask you a question. Would you be behind a tire barrier in a live fire zone? I doubt it. So why were they?

Spot on. I am certain that it must take an individual with an alterior motive to be behind a barrier at this stage of the troubles.

Unbelievable how gullible some people are.