More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[MacWalen]

See what a mess it is now, the government will be desperate to clear the city because if you thought it was paralyzed before then this time it is indeed paralyzed. Cannot do business in Silom, most most of Petchaburi (Praatunam, Phantip plaza), Rama 4. Real mess. Loos like there will be a lot of people who will not be able to go to work and businesses not being able to operate.

At the end of the day people have to work to eat.

[gemini81]

This used to be a good information site with good views and posts... Now all I mostly see is crap posts and how they deserve this and they deserve that....Very few seem to be even slightly sorry that THESE PEOPLE ARE BEING KILLED... for mostly nothing more than being in the wrong place or choosing to have an opinion and standing up for it ... I REPEAT THEY DO NOT DESERVE TO DIE... They deserve LIFE, nothing less it is the so called government who have ordered the army in and started killing in big numbers indiscriminately. The Killing MUST stop and the army pull back this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut and cannot be justified.

This is not accidental shootings mostly this is pre targeted sniper fire ... these people are being assassinated in front of the world and all most of you can do is talk shit about them probably being terrorists or criminals and how inconvenient it is for everyone etc...

Shame on most of you for your apathetic and inhumane attitudes, you make me sick pretending to sit on your moral high ground.... every one of you has a dodgy government not to mention your faults and im sure plenty of you are betraying their other halves etc so spare us the holy insight of what the protesters deserve you bunch of rubberneckers....

stop getting stoned and check out the news or even youtube and you'll see whats going on. peace love hippies and white doves doesn't wash over with the Red necks thugs.

[lannarebirth]

Hang on a sec, you boys say that if I critisise the leadership of Mr A, and this botched attempt to clear the shopping malls of Bangkok that I am a troll? and a wanke_r, just here to wind people up?

My angle is I want to see the yellows and PAD squirm when they lose a general election. That is what I would wish for the reds. An election soon. It might stop all this <deleted>!! if the reds lose, great, if they win.. f**king great. I can only hope for a landslide for one side or the other.

Sorry. I must be a troll for wanting the military to stay the <deleted> out of politics! They have no place in this day and age. They have to learn Thaksins game instead.

You make the mistake of thinking Abhisit and the "yellows" are somehow the same. The yellows are no greater a force than the reds, which are both minorities in Thailand. The vast majority of Thais are neither and will support any government that puts violent members of either group down.

Abhisit openly supported PAD during airport and govt house seige. Its very clear he is not in charge, and is merely a mouthpiece for the military and anti-Thaksin interests. I do disagree with " The vast majority of Thais are neither and will support any government that puts violent members of either group down".

From my observations, whoever pulls this off with the least "Jai Rai" will be the winner amongst the electorate. It may be just me, but images of the 'majority' of the reds being peacful protestors, and being gunned down by troops will serve only to distance Abhisit and his 'elite' from the rural and poor communities of Thailand. I could be wrong, I hope we get a chance to find out before too long.

Like a frog in a hot pan, Thailand is slipping into a military dictatorship, albeit one that celebrates 'sanook' over pomp and ceremony.

I dislike soldiers full stop, they are like corrupt cops, but with bigger guns. Maybe that is why I dont like the current administration - its mainly run by soldiers. Anyway... what a lovely war... be great if Abhisit went abroad today.

Let me tell you what I mean giving my wife as an example. She is neither Red nor Yellow and I think she is in the majority. She perceives, as do most people she knows that the Reds have gone to Bangkok in order to create violence on behalf of the former PM Thaksin. She thinks they should be stopped and because she does, at this moment in time she has the same interests as someone who might classify themselves in the "yellow shirt" camp. She is not one of then however.

[Robby nz]

CONCISE AND INFORMED. From Today's Independent:

Background to the current Thai protest

[info] earlywarm wrote:

The Independent (London) Saturday, 15 May 2010 at 12:41 am (UTC)

I suspect that much of the confusion in the reports on the situation in

Thailand is coming from commentators who cannot speak or understand the

Thai language. So much of their analysis is simply a list of cliches

copied from others. Where is the good investigative research on any of the

people involved here, or on the political history in the country over the

past twenty years?

This is not fundamentally a "poor" vs "rich" class war. While there are

certainly elements of this it is entirely too superficial an analysis and

simply caters to western preconceptions about who the "good guys' and 'bad

guys' might be.

It is more correctly part of a phenomenon which is occurring all over

China and South East Asia at the moment: - the massive growth of a vast

new middle class - people who were once poor during the last century, but

who now have access to more money, consumer goods, education, health care,

mobility and entertainment than they have ever had in any previous time in

their history. All across Asia the growth of this demographic is radically

changing the political structure and threatening the old feudal society

which has always depended on 'patronage' and corruption for its power.

Thailand's rural population, like the Philippines is and has been ruled by

local "oligarchs", powerful families, mafia thugs, police chiefs and

village chiefs at least since 1938 when it first became a military

dictatorship under Marshal Phibul. These people are terrified of

progressive democratic changes in society. But such changes are inevitable

as more and more people join the expanding middle classes.

The current revolt has been precipitated by the oligarchs - the corrupt

feudal families. Thaksin is their hero - and because each feifdom controls

its own group of rural people they have been able to make it look like (to

the naive foreign press) a large crowd is clamouring for democracy. But it

is their intense focus on violence that gives them away entirely. They

have a powerful military wing who have no qualms about killing their own

protesters in order to lay blame on the government. They have been

clamouring for bloodletting since the beginning of this protest. They are

fighting back tooth and nail against democracy, education, the welfare

state (attacks on hospitals) and in particular the rule of law.

If we are going to have a discussion in the press, let's have an informed

discussion, please?

Pretty spot on but I would add money lenders to the list and that those the army is fighting now are more than likely the enforcers of the big men in the provences sent by their bosses to look after their interests.

These will be thugs who have been used to doing as they please in their little pond and most will have at the least beat people up to keep them in line and quite likely murdered with no fear of reprecussions and they now think they can do the same here.

[kissdani]

savage. Abhisit is now a world class dictator. Congratulations!

And what is this supposed to show?? some criminals hiding behind barricades that is all

What is shows is the governments claims that "we only shoot in self defence" are totally bogus lies.. As does the CNN footage..

Which then makes his "only trust the official sources, we must maintain the moral high ground" type statements also laughable..

Its currently open season on anything that moves, protesters, journos, medics, etc.. Lets forget this 'only in self defence' PR BS..

And what are these guys doing? Going for a walk? NO. They are attacking the army. The army are responding.

Attacking the army??? with bare hands? CRES said army will only fire live rounds in self defence and to protect life. shot only at terrorists. Is that such a situation? No, redshirthater, that is not the way to restore peace and normalcy, that are the actions of a dictator how clings to power and fears elections. There is nothing to apologise.

[mccw]

Quote:

"You see only the short term effect on the economy. The sulking of Spain and spanish products has lasted more than 40 years. Half of Europe (I cannot talk for other Countries- because I have not the knowledge) will sulk Thailand and Thai products if there is a tough crushing action on the Red Shirts."

quote

no. bussiness wants to be able to get on with business. if this is seen though firmly, it will b the best thing for thailand.

I understand your point of view which is the same than probably most of the managers hit by the rallyes. But it is not the long term interest of Thailand: if there is a tough action, the roots of the problems will not be eradicated and at some times the problem will resurface: important investors know this and will manage to fly to better skies; Thailand as tourism destination as well as Thai products will be sulked.

Only a negotiation can clear the issues.

I am not without ignoring than some, inside the Red Shirts, try to go further and are reluctant to negotiation. It is a very difficult task to bring all parties to the table of negotiation, but it has to be done.

If there is a crushing action, I do not think also that the militias will stop their activity as they are freely circulating in the Country and will escape the crushing for most of their staff: a crushing action result will only be a negative Public marketing action.

i dont think so. long term the government is implementing policies for helping the poor. a2 pronged approach, crushing millitants and alleviation of poverty combined is much better better than an indefinate protest, crippled government, and opposising factions arming themselves to fight each other. luckaly gov has finnally done the right thing now, if waited much longer an the PAD becoome milliant then we really could of had a civil war on our hand.

also dont think only PAD are just rich ellite, many millitary people at all levels aswell as the normal farmers support king

[ETatBKK]

looting and arson spreading, tesco lotus

link?

whatever it is true or a rumour, IF reds do it, with the current level of security forces there is no counter measure to stop them ( or prevent it to be happened ).

that the riot will be escalated and becomes an disaster !

[Netfan]

This used to be a good information site with good views and posts... Now all I mostly see is crap posts and how they deserve this and they deserve that....Very few seem to be even slightly sorry that THESE PEOPLE ARE BEING KILLED... for mostly nothing more than being in the wrong place or choosing to have an opinion and standing up for it ... I REPEAT THEY DO NOT DESERVE TO DIE... They deserve LIFE, nothing less it is the so called government who have ordered the army in and started killing in big numbers indiscriminately. The Killing MUST stop and the army pull back this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut and cannot be justified.

This is not accidental shootings mostly this is pre targeted sniper fire ... these people are being assassinated in front of the world and all most of you can do is talk shit about them probably being terrorists or criminals and how inconvenient it is for everyone etc...

Shame on most of you for your apathetic and inhumane attitudes, you make me sick pretending to sit on your moral high ground.... every one of you has a dodgy government not to mention your faults and im sure plenty of you are betraying their other halves etc so spare us the holy insight of what the protesters deserve you bunch of rubberneckers....

Yes, it is a shame that people have had to die. Gang members, soldiers, police and anyone who made a decision to put themselves in the middle of the shooting. You say the killing must stop, but you put it all on the government. So the government suddenly pulls back the army - then what? The reds won't stop. They brought this on, they need it to happen. Sad but true, this will not end until the Reds are beaten. Their leaders refuse to negotiate in good faith, the gang members they have hired are trying to kill soldiers. What else do you expect?

[TAWP]

"Stop shooting, retreat and we can then negotiate," Natthawut said. Asked by a journalist why he was not ordering the red shirts to stop attacking first, he angrily retorted: "The killers must stop. You cannot possibly expect those being hunted to stop killing. It's as if the red shirts have been abandoned alone in the world."

Derrr, do you think that might be because the redshirts are in the minority and because of the actions they have taken???

The reality is the Red Shirts have the backing of the rural population.

Probably 80% of Thai's support the revolution.

That's a fact!

Atleast your delusions are easy to spot.

[mccw]

looting and arson spreading, tesco lotus

link?

whatever it is true or a rumour, IF reds do it, with the current level of security forces there is no counter measure to stop them ( or prevent it to be happened ).

that the riot will be escalated and becomes an disaster !

i see on thai tv pbs

[humfurry]

Seemed some of those people lived there.. That IS home !!

This is beyond being pro one side or pro another side.. Come back from the brink.. Its never OK to start shooting people who do not pose a threat.. End of.

Seems? Look they knew where they were. Behind a tire barrier in a live fire zone. It's a video clip.... you don't see what happens before the shooting started. CNN edited the clip to show what they wanted you to see.

But I'll ask you a question. Would you be behind a tire barrier in a live fire zone? I doubt it. So why were they?

[Oberkommando]

You may see it as evil, whereas I see it as security forces doing what has to be done.

If only those same security forces didn't keep meddling in politics this whole affair would never have happened.

[MacWalen]

That is the point, most people just want to live in the city, work, operate their businesses etc. Now the reds are saying that because they cannot get supplies they will loot shopping centers under their control, tell me this is not too much, so now they will be allowed to steal? There is no law here and if government will not do something it will only get worse as these people do not want to negotiate, they just want their way and this is not negotiating. I saw reds destroying 7-11 with my own eyes. There is not respect for the property so how can u expect respect for higher value like life.

[LivinLOS]

Seemed some of those people lived there.. That IS home !!

This is beyond being pro one side or pro another side.. Come back from the brink.. Its never OK to start shooting people who do not pose a threat.. End of.

Seems? Look they knew where they were. Behind a tire barrier in a live fire zone. It's a video clip.... you don't see what happens before the shooting started. CNN edited the clip to show what they wanted you to see.

But I'll ask you a question. Would you be behind a tire barrier in a live fire zone? I doubt it. So why were they?

So you didnt read the accompanying description of events and photo journal then ??

Fine you remain uninformed and keep guessing.

[Britannia]

The Nation story says:

"By 4pm, a Dusit Poll revealed a disturbing figure: 51 per cent of respondents backed the military crackdown. It's not clear what the other 49 per cent thought."

Disturbing to which side? I would think that adjective should be ONLY 51 percent backed the crackdown. It's a cr*p story at any rate, but if only that percentage backs its own government in clearing a mob engaged in a host of illegal activities it shows strong support for the underclass activists.

as the guy said the other 49% is unknown but given normal stats it would be safe to say 25% for the reds which imho is a far cry from the amount needed to call the reds a grass root movement that seeks justice for all. now that bullets are flying the 500b a day reds are staying away, as they well should which goes to show if there is no money there is no honey. the reds have a cause but it has been lost in their own greed and lack of good judgment by it's leaders.

How dare you use the word greed coming from one who probably has against those who definitely have not

If I work and am a have and you want to take this from me, am I greedy or you?

No for sure, all people are responsible for work, as all people are entitled to reward for work, and no one should rob you. But it is indeed a sad thing that those I meet who have done well in life would barter down, use, exploit those with little and then proclaim them greedy,

TIT we are all being cheated all the time, because of the ignorance that we are all wealthy, indeed we are all elite

Do not condemn a man for ignorance, weigh his heart instead and then whatever you find do not condemn him

[brahmburgers]

The soldiers seemed constantly caught off-balance by agitators showing a grasp of insurgency that may well derive from their time as army conscripts. They shot M-79 grenades, which can kill within five yards. They aimed slingshots with deadly accuracy. They let off makeshift cannons. Some blazed away with pistols. A Buddhist monk was seen to launch a glowing fire-lantern, normally used in religious rites, into the sky to ward off helicopters. Others fired home-made rockets at the choppers.The wildness was fuelled by more than fury. Crates of Red Bull, the energy drink, were by a barricade where edgy soldiers fingered their assault rifles. A mixture of cheap whiskey and amphetamines was said to be keeping many of their enemies on their toes.

The quote is about the reds - a bit confused but ok - it is a known fact that a lot of the reds, if not most use Ja baa - every drug dealer must have rushed to the scene once it started to make a killing. The problem with amphetamines is that they give them a lot of energy and cause severe paranoia and delusions as can also be seen with the red supporters on TV. Another side effect is aggression.

Basically the army has to deal with total maniacs

Every Issaner farmer knows the virtue of chewing the leaves of Coca.... they do not need amphetamines

Wow ---- now Jerry is saying every Isaan farmer uses drugs? Jerry you are further hurting your cause! As for coca being grown in Thailand on any scale ... Jerry are you SURE you have ever been in Thailand? In the past poppies (used in the production of opium that can be refined into heroin) was fairly comon. That Yaa Baa enters the country from Laos and Burma is common knowledge but coca? hmmm I better do some reading! Maybe I can find a reference to coca being grown here somewhere!

Chewing coca leaf as a stimulant is popular among rural folks in the Andean mountain range. I haven't heard of it being used in SE Asia - correct me if I'm wrong on that. Rural folks in SE Asia, Issan included, use drugs and stimulants familiar to westerners: alcohol and caffeine and tobacco, the first two in copious quantities, particularly when you include drinks like 'Red Bull' which they almost take intravenously.

MSG is not a drug and probably not even classified as a stimulant, but it does have physiological and psychic affects on at least some people. Thais use truckloads of the stuff without thinking twice about it. Some of the known symptoms are: rapid and weakened pulse rate, quick to anger, feeling ill-at-ease.

[daboyz1]

Thai army snipers in action

Sweet. They deserve it! Thanks for that, I will sleep well tonight knowing that someone that can shoot is loyal to the govt.

How do I send him more bullets?

[gemini81]

Seemed some of those people lived there.. That IS home !!

This is beyond being pro one side or pro another side.. Come back from the brink.. Its never OK to start shooting people who do not pose a threat.. End of.

Seems? Look they knew where they were. Behind a tire barrier in a live fire zone. It's a video clip.... you don't see what happens before the shooting started. CNN edited the clip to show what they wanted you to see.

But I'll ask you a question. Would you be behind a tire barrier in a live fire zone? I doubt it. So why were they?

because they are idiots. they will now get even less respect and help from the gov't in their plight. they want more help from the gov't for being poor, yet they try to start an urban war. I think the PM let them paint themselves into a corner, and they've succeeded at that! Now they are clearly the culprits for the world to see. I think in the end, he is trying to get support by allowing the Reds to cut their own throats. Man, they're pretty good at it too!!

[TAWP]

savage. Abhisit is now a world class dictator. Congratulations!

Really? Your scale seem to be slightly off... Putin was 10 times worse for example, when it came just dealing with criminals and insurgents...as you recall.

[kissdani]

This used to be a good information site with good views and posts... Now all I mostly see is crap posts and how they deserve this and they deserve that....Very few seem to be even slightly sorry that THESE PEOPLE ARE BEING KILLED... for mostly nothing more than being in the wrong place or choosing to have an opinion and standing up for it ... I REPEAT THEY DO NOT DESERVE TO DIE... They deserve LIFE, nothing less it is the so called government who have ordered the army in and started killing in big numbers indiscriminately. The Killing MUST stop and the army pull back this is a sledgehammer to crack a nut and cannot be justified.

This is not accidental shootings mostly this is pre targeted sniper fire ... these people are being assassinated in front of the world and all most of you can do is talk shit about them probably being terrorists or criminals and how inconvenient it is for everyone etc...

Shame on most of you for your apathetic and inhumane attitudes, you make me sick pretending to sit on your moral high ground.... every one of you has a dodgy government not to mention your faults and im sure plenty of you are betraying their other halves etc so spare us the holy insight of what the protesters deserve you bunch of rubberneckers....

+1

Exactly!

[nickupton]

You may see it as evil, whereas I see it as security forces doing what has to be done.

If only those same security forces didn't keep meddling in politics this whole affair would never have happened.

If only a very rich and corrupt politician had not bribed MPs from other parties to join him and then bought off large parts of the electorate in marginal seats, then sued any newspaper that published anything critical of him, then used his position to enrich himself and his cronies then the security forces who are now protecting the real innocent people, armed only with bare hands, would not have felt the need to meddle in politics.

[Thai at Heart]

Well it is patently obvious that the supposed "rules" of engagement have gone out of the window. I don't blame the army. It was in someways to be absolutely expected

However, looking at the videos, I am quite surprised at the lack of armored vehicles being used. I am no warfare strategy expert, and this is an urban environment. However, if you want to command the streets, wouldn't it part of the plan to use tanks and APC's.

Maybe they think it doesn't look good on the streets, but with youtube and the worlds media watching quite intently, who cares. Maybe the tank groups they have are perceived as not very effective and that the "red militia" would know only too well how to handle them?

The situation seems to be barely under control, not wanting to wish anything bad to happen in Bangkok, but lets hope to God this doesn't spread out into the provinces. If that starts, who knows where the mess will end.

[mccw]

You may see it as evil, whereas I see it as security forces doing what has to be done.

If only those same security forces didn't keep meddling in politics this whole affair would never have happened.

eggs and chickens

if thaksins wasnt such a corrupt power mad mass murdering nut he would never need to of been over thrown

[bermuda]

"Stop shooting, retreat and we can then negotiate," Natthawut said. Asked by a journalist why he was not ordering the red shirts to stop attacking first, he angrily retorted: "The killers must stop. You cannot possibly expect those being hunted to stop killing. It's as if the red shirts have been abandoned alone in the world."

Derrr, do you think that might be because the redshirts are in the minority and because of the actions they have taken???

LOL i was about to comment about the same thing...

just go home... no one is stopping you going home... Yes you've been abandoned, no one wants to be associated with what you are doing!!! Democracy, yes.. violence, no....

They need to go in with dirty big armoured water tanks and just ram through all the blockades... THey need to hose the crap out of that stage too...

Bwahahaha.....what an ignorant illiterate man of the reds. They should not agitate the soldiers so that they won't get shot. They should not brandish weapons so they won't be forcibly removed. They should not attack regional conferences and seminars so that they will not be seen as terrorists. And yet they have the guts to demand this and that. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA........

GO BACK TO THE CLASSROOMS and I WILL EDUCATE YOU.

[humfurry]

looting and arson spreading, tesco lotus

link?

whatever it is true or a rumour, IF reds do it, with the current level of security forces there is no counter measure to stop them ( or prevent it to be happened ).

that the riot will be escalated and becomes an disaster !

i see on thai tv pbs

The govt may very well let them loot... and concentrate on the main body of the protests. Would be interesting to see what items are being looted. I know that during the LA riots big screen tv's and liquor were the hot items.

[ChouDoufu]

now they have hostages:

THE NATION: RT @rrystrom:My mother-in-law said pppl wanted 2 bring home their children&old ppl from rajprasong yday but was refused 2leave by r-guards..

(also from the other thread.)

[Jerrytheyoung]

quote;

The soldiers seemed constantly caught off-balance by agitators showing a grasp of insurgency that may well derive from their time as army conscripts. They shot M-79 grenades, which can kill within five yards. They aimed slingshots with deadly accuracy. They let off makeshift cannons. Some blazed away with pistols. A Buddhist monk was seen to launch a glowing fire-lantern, normally used in religious rites, into the sky to ward off helicopters. Others fired home-made rockets at the choppers.The wildness was fuelled by more than fury. Crates of Red Bull, the energy drink, were by a barricade where edgy soldiers fingered their assault rifles. A mixture of cheap whiskey and amphetamines was said to be keeping many of their enemies on their toes.

quote

i don't understand. this is saying the former conscripts learned something the current conscripts have not been taught?

they teach insurgency in basic training?

thai army armed with slingshots?

thai army buys makeshift cannon from us defense contractors?

army conscripts taught to blaze away with pistols?

but they only have slingshots?

quote

The quote is about the reds - a bit confused but ok - it is a known fact that a lot of the reds, if not most use Ja baa - every drug dealer must have rushed to the scene once it started to make a killing. The problem with amphetamines is that they give them a lot of energy and cause severe paranoia and delusions as can also be seen with the red supporters on TV. Another side effect is aggression.

Basically the army has to deal with total maniacs

quote

Every Issaner farmer knows the virtue of chewing the leaves of Coca.... they do not need amphetamines

quote

Wow ---- now Jerry is saying every Isaan farmer uses drugs? Jerry you are further hurting your cause! As for coca being grown in Thailand on any scale ... Jerry are you SURE you have ever been in Thailand? In the past poppies (used in the production of opium that can be refined into heroin) was fairly comon. That Yaa Baa enters the country from Laos and Burma is comon knowledge but coca? hmmm I better do some reading! Maybe I can find a reference to coca being grown here somewhere!

I have been surprised myself: just a personal story

"one day I have to move some belongings from South Thailand to Nong Khai. I make a deal with an issan farmer owner of a pick up.

I have been surprised, exceptional very fast delivery: he drives from Nong Khai to Hat Yai and back without sleeping (total nearly 3500km/4000km). How can be? The driver shows me a plastic bag full of leaves that he was chewing...I describe the leaves to a farang friend who has some knowledge about this kind of things: he told me it is coca..." And apparently everybody in the village is well aware about those leaves...."

[humfurry]

Seemed some of those people lived there.. That IS home !!

This is beyond being pro one side or pro another side.. Come back from the brink.. Its never OK to start shooting people who do not pose a threat.. End of.

Seems? Look they knew where they were. Behind a tire barrier in a live fire zone. It's a video clip.... you don't see what happens before the shooting started. CNN edited the clip to show what they wanted you to see.

But I'll ask you a question. Would you be behind a tire barrier in a live fire zone? I doubt it. So why were they?

So you didnt read the accompanying description of events and photo journal then ??

Fine you remain uninformed and keep guessing.

Well would you?

[breaky73]

THE NATION: RT @rrystrom:My mother-in-law said pppl wanted 2 bring home their children&old ppl from rajprasong yday but was refused 2leave by r-guards..

If this is true than this is really low...

[rogerx007]

51% for crackdown... yeah... songkran in over and next exciting thing new year is few months away... some action in the middle of the year is always welcome... who cares for the dead... and everybody thought Buddhism taught ahimsa... another religion of peace..