More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[siampolee]

Nuttawut and the red leaders need to offer something besides demands....

bkkjames

We will remove all blockades of tyres around the city....

Govt, we will order the army back 1km from current positions.

Reds we will stop all activities and leave rachaprasong if elections are held on november 14 and amnesty granted to all non violent protestors.

Govt, we will move army back to base and replaced by the bk police until all areas are cleared if you agree to the above without additional conditions.

Reds, where do we sign?

Reds, where do we sign?

That is the crux of the matter as whether or not their paymasters will let them sign.

A noble cause to be sure however there is a fly in the ointment.

The Red Shirt Brigade paymasters are up to their ankles in the mire,

The problem being with that position is that they are in the mire head first !!l

[rogerdee123]

As much as I hate to admit it, I think you are correct earthpig.

But Veera is the wildcard here. If he comes over to the Govt side and spills his guts ... all bets about the "A" word are off.

Edited May 18, 2010 by cdnvic
excessive quoting removed

[chadintheusa]

Well goody the rest of the week will be a holiday too. Bangkok is closed for business. Does this mean that they just want to wait out the reds, or will the military finally restore some sense of sanity to our city?

[earthpig]

its never easy or nice to give an amnesty to people who have hurt others. but as you obviously understand, we have to recall that from the red point of view, it is they who are the victims. to ignore that is perpetuate the battle of bangkok.

i dont think weera's defection--if true--is relevant. what is relevant is that every day that passes with the Army firing in heavily populated civilian neigbourhoods is a victory for Thaksin.

the sad fact it that Thaksin has outsmarted all others and at the moment the Reds have the initiative.

Edited May 18, 2010 by cdnvic
excess quote removed

[bkkjames]

On georges twitter page, cres have captured she saengs number 2 who has pointed the finger squarely at nuttawut.

Edited May 18, 2010 by bkkjames

[tharae]

Assuming you're assertions are correct (many would disagree) then an Amnesty isn't going to solve anything. It will just become more protracted, and that isn't going to help anyone.

Clearly, there is no good will from the reds, who have turned down a reasonable way forward. Right minded people (no pun intended) are becoming more and more disillusioned with the Reds as each day goes by and they continue to act like a collection of leaderless factions.

[Netfan]

CRES reporting 5-10 gunmen in Chiva-Thai building nr Century Park Hotel between 24-27 floors /via @forestmat

Media area: http://tweetphoto.com/22903444 /via @noppatjak

Time to bring in the special ops guys and try to take these guys alive to gleen info.

Hey, don't be so harsh- they are peaceful democracy loving gunmen who deserve amnesty

[rogerdee123]

its never easy or nice to give an amnesty to people who have hurt others. but as you obviously understand, we have to recall that from the red point of view, it is they who are the victims. to ignore that is perpetuate the battle of bangkok.

i dont think weera's defection--if true--is relevant. what is relevant is that every day that passes with the Army firing in heavily populated civilian neigbourhoods is a victory for Thaksin.

the sad fact it that Thaksin has outsmarted all others and at the moment the Reds have the initiative.

Well I don't agree that the Reds have the initiative, as I think the leaders are running scared.

But I do agree that Thaksin has, up until this time, outfoxed the Govt and that amnesty for the Red leaders in the end is quite possible .... not because they deserve it but given the reality of the way things work in Thailand.

[rogerx007]

On georges twitter page, cres have captured she saengs number 2 who has pointed the finger squarely at nuttawut.

tulsathit: Correction: A right handed man of Seh Daeng has been arrested. But govt, not the guy, has named a red leader as terrorist mastermind.

[pimay11]

CRES reporting 5-10 gunmen in Chiva-Thai building nr Century Park Hotel between 24-27 floors /via @forestmat

Media area: http://tweetphoto.com/22903444 /via @noppatjak

Time to bring in the special ops guys and try to take these guys alive to gleen info.

Hey, don't be so harsh- they are peaceful democracy loving gunmen who deserve amnesty

Thanks Netfan. How stupid of me. Time for another LEO

[jcbangkok]

This letter was already discussed over two pages on TV, and guess what?? The whole topic was removed.

Guess TV leaders need to keep CNN as friends....

I was very very disappointed to see it happen. I had higher anticipations about TV being unbiased.

Closed, or deleted?

Deleted, I got the board message..so.......

As I mentioned ... consider the source as it was not deleted see: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Real-open-Le...nn-t366490.html

[jdinasia]

I don't really see Amnesty as an option for the leaders OR anyone proven to be a member of Sae daeng's ronin.

The message being if you come to BKK and are violent enough then your actions will be excused. The real message needs to be if you call for violence (incite insurrection) or participate in violence that you go to jail or die.

Now --- offering amnesty to all those in the rally that have NOT been violent is fine. Making the government round up those that were violent is also fine. (Let them ALL walk out and go home!) Taking the death penalty off the table and the standard 50% sentence for those that preached sedition/insurrection and yes even terrorism IF they turn themselves in today! also fine. Allowing for mitigation. fine! Counting those that funded this mess as the leaders? Mandatory!

[basjke]

Red Shirts Accept Senate Offer to Mediate

Red shirt leader Nuthawut Saikua has announced the group's decision to accept an offer from the Senate to mediate peace talks between them and the government.

He says the red shirts are ready to meet at any venue.

However, he reiterated calls for the government to withdraw its troops.

-- Tan Network 2010-05-18

"However, he reiterated calls for the government to withdraw its troops."

Still making demands?

Probably they are also still telling their supporters from the stage that they are close to victory.

[basjke]

On georges twitter page, cres have captured she saengs number 2 who has pointed the finger squarely at nuttawut.

tulsathit: Correction: A right handed man of Seh Daeng has been arrested. But govt, not the guy, has named a red leader as terrorist mastermind.

And who is that right hand man? Another red shirt terrorist called veera?

[bkkjames]

On georges twitter page, cres have captured she saengs number 2 who has pointed the finger squarely at nuttawut.

tulsathit: Correction: A right handed man of Seh Daeng has been arrested. But govt, not the guy, has named a red leader as terrorist mastermind.

:D

Wishful thinking on the twits part?

[rabo]

Assuming you're assertions are correct (many would disagree) then an Amnesty isn't going to solve anything. It will just become more protracted, and that isn't going to help anyone.

Clearly, there is no good will from the reds, who have turned down a reasonable way forward. Right minded people (no pun intended) are becoming more and more disillusioned with the Reds as each day goes by and they continue to act like a collection of leaderless factions.

Revealing Truth always helps. Paying a little amnesty for truth is worth it IMO.

[pimay11]

Weng : It's parents' decision to bring children to rally

Red shirt leader weng Tojirakarn condemned on Tuesday the Centre for Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) for presenting a video clip of a child at the clashing point in its press conference.

"Whether to bring their children with then is up to the parents to consider by themselves. It's not the resolution of the protesters to bring the children, It's the consideration of the parents to entertain and thrill the children. But we don't agree with that," he said.

The patients are running the asylum .

Consider this. You are running a demonstration camp. You know there is a likelyhood of violence. You know there is a possibility of people being harmed or killed. You see children arriving with their mother and/or grandmother. You reason "I don't agree but this is not my problem". If they get harmed it is the mothers/grandmothers fault. Let them stay.

This is the mentality of these bafoons.

[jdinasia]

A wonderful take on matters from a Canadian guy who posts on another forum.

manned-rake. 16th May 2010 18:33

My wife's business has lost roughly 50K in sales the last 3 days. We support the Reds, but hope they give up the territory around Pratunam?

Well we can see what motivates this persons ideals, copletely in line with Thaksin MONEY, MONEY , MONEY

Excuse me for asking but what are you living of???? Everyone is suffering equally!

No. Some if not MOST of the protesters are being paid. They are risking much but not suffering financially. Thaksin is in Paris shopping despite his former statement that said he would return to Thailand when the first bullet was fired. He's not suffering. His family has fled overseas. They are not suffering. His ex-wife has has over 1 billion baht withdrawn in cash recently -- she is not suffering.

My BF is outside of the theorhetical danger zone in BKK but cannot go in to the office. He is afraid for co-workers and friends that live inside the danger-zone. He IS suffering.

[earthpig]

Assuming you're assertions are correct (many would disagree) then an Amnesty isn't going to solve anything. It will just become more protracted, and that isn't going to help anyone.

No it wont. the plan includes early elections that are considered fair by all parties.

THAT is where amnesty will lead.

I understand that it is very hard to swallow amnesty to people you feel have hurt you or others.

in fact, there is no other way forward except horror.

[jdinasia]

Weng : It's parents' decision to bring children to rally

Red shirt leader weng Tojirakarn condemned on Tuesday the Centre for Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) for presenting a video clip of a child at the clashing point in its press conference.

"Whether to bring their children with then is up to the parents to consider by themselves. It's not the resolution of the protesters to bring the children, It's the consideration of the parents to entertain and thrill the children. But we don't agree with that," he said.

The patients are running the asylum .

Consider this. You are running a demonstration camp. You know there is a likelyhood of violence. You know there is a possibility of people being harmed or killed. You see children arriving with their mother and/or grandmother. You reason "I don't agree but this is not my problem". If they get harmed it is the mothers/grandmothers fault. Let them stay.

This is the mentality of these bafoons.

Didn't the reds ENCOURAGE parents to bring children not too long ago? Why? Same reason as women and grannies --- human shields for when they started their violence. (Remember they were calling for violent confrontation BEFORE they got to BKK)

[Dudley23]

Think it cannot last much longer, but really struggle with the CNN reports and others, no mention always of the "Blacks" in the red camp and the fact the are running around with assault rifles and killing, the reds just as bad they say they have no guns but just stand and watch these guys shooting at the soilders and even killing their own. No doubt if you have seen the poor young Thai guy being shoot in the head very obvious the shoot was behind and not where the army were and where all the focus of the Battle was, Everyone looking shouting left bullet definetly not from the left but right, consequently where they starting running back too.

If in doubt go to You Tube type search red shirt kill and many footages from inside the red area of the guys in Black.

This can all go back to the start when the first tried to break up the rally, then has just kept escalting. Can you really blame the government and soldiers when they are faced with this.

I cannot believe if the reds are so naive it is in full view of them, they must know, but just do not want to say, e.g. we do not get money, well plenty more footage of this, plus some people I know just went there early on and got money.

However with the situation inside too many deaths to go in, but more must be shown of these "Black" guys to totally discredited all the red leaders. Then let the innocent get out if not too brain washed aleady and clean the rest up.

CNN and BBC really have to start reporting some of this, or are they too scared as they will not be allowed back in the area where every international wants to see the action and they get the best audience, no one can tell me Dan Rivers have not seen these guys in the area, with the amount of time they are in there amount of footage floating on the web come on guys to some proper reporting not the one sided view.

[NaiGreg]

Let's see what the body count is today. Anyone? How many woman and children have been cut down by ruthless Army murderers as they tried to make their way to safety. None!? Oh, dear. Yes, the government is smarter than you think. They noticed that media hounds watch the body count - blood bath stats - and made adjustments.

------------

Today's media manipulation score:

Reds - 735 on the anarchy, arson and arrows scale (every society's worst nightmare)

CRES - 344 on the jai-yen-yen "we are merely cordoning off the area scale and trying to prevent further destruction of life and property." scale (oh, no!! Not reason and restraint. Stop it . . . I can't take it)

-------------

Now lets see about those convoys of reinforcements coming in from the provinces. Oh, too bad, their pickup had a flat tire and will be late. Thaksin will be weely weely mad.

Now about the money. Oh yes, the money ...

Thaksin has already lost his war, it is just that the mop up operations are pretty ugly.

[jcbangkok]

Assuming you're assertions are correct (many would disagree) then an Amnesty isn't going to solve anything. It will just become more protracted, and that isn't going to help anyone.

No it wont. the plan includes early elections that are considered fair by all parties.

THAT is where amnesty will lead.

I understand that it is very hard to swallow amnesty to people you feel have hurt you or others.

in fact, there is no other way forward except horror.

In the last 80 years elections haven't work but you think by giving criminals a free pass that it will and don't even consider that it would continue to encourage people, unhappy because their party isn't in power, to resort to illegal and violent means as a way to get what "they' want.

[jcbangkok]

Let's see what the body count is today. Anyone? How many woman and children have been cut down by ruthless Army murderers as they tried to make their way to safety.

None today, none yesterday, none the day before and none in the past months.

[Netfan]

Weng : It's parents' decision to bring children to rally

Red shirt leader weng Tojirakarn condemned on Tuesday the Centre for Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) for presenting a video clip of a child at the clashing point in its press conference.

"Whether to bring their children with then is up to the parents to consider by themselves. It's not the resolution of the protesters to bring the children, It's the consideration of the parents to entertain and thrill the children. But we don't agree with that," he said.

The patients are running the asylum .

Consider this. You are running a demonstration camp. You know there is a likelyhood of violence. You know there is a possibility of people being harmed or killed. You see children arriving with their mother and/or grandmother. You reason "I don't agree but this is not my problem". If they get harmed it is the mothers/grandmothers fault. Let them stay.

This is the mentality of these bafoons.

Didn't the reds ENCOURAGE parents to bring children not too long ago? Why? Same reason as women and grannies --- human shields for when they started their violence. (Remember they were calling for violent confrontation BEFORE they got to BKK)

The Thaksin kiddies will be arriving any moment now to go down and show their solidarity.

Once again the Reds show there is no limit as to how low they will sink. Weng needs those kids. If the crap does hit the fan apparently he'd like nothing better than wounded or dead kids on video.

[earthpig]

its never easy or nice to give an amnesty to people who have hurt others. but as you obviously understand, we have to recall that from the red point of view, it is they who are the victims. to ignore that is perpetuate the battle of bangkok.

i dont think weera's defection--if true--is relevant. what is relevant is that every day that passes with the Army firing in heavily populated civilian neigbourhoods is a victory for Thaksin.

the sad fact it that Thaksin has outsmarted all others and at the moment the Reds have the initiative.

Well I don't agree that the Reds have the initiative, as I think the leaders are running scared.

But I do agree that Thaksin has, up until this time, outfoxed the Govt and that amnesty for the Red leaders in the end is quite possible .... not because they deserve it but given the reality of the way things work in Thailand.

You are right the Red leaders must be scared witless. look what happened to sae daeng. one or two days later soldiers fired smoke bombs on the stage at RatchaP from the BTS overhead. real subtle message.

but some of the leaders will probably never give up. unlike certain knownothing keyboard warrriors who claim otherwise, many of the people at Red Central are prepared to die for what they believe.

right or wrong, that is what an ingrained sense of injustice built up over generations does to people.

i certainly dont call for amnesty because the Red leaders, or for that matters the assassins of sae daeng, deserve it. i call for it because unlike certain barbarian posters here who bay for thai blood to assauge their inner demons, i love thailand.

but no amnesty for thaksin. he has cloven feet.

and cloven feet or not, sorry to disagree, but he is controlling events as the uprisings of Bangkok Reds all around the city attest.

abhisit will get the initiative back only when he declares amnesty and timely elections, perhaps with international observers.

AMNESTY NOW. PEACE NOW.

[rogerx007]

Let's see what the body count is today. Anyone? How many woman and children have been cut down by ruthless Army murderers as they tried to make their way to safety.

None today, none yesterday, none the day before and none in the past months.

37 deaths

36 protestors (including civilians, rescue worker(s) and medics) and 1 Army men...

[VictorMeldrewBKK]

On the CNN site right now a Bkk resident is posting videos of armed reds, some of which he took himself, and he's being eaten alive by these Thaksin drones.

Are you talking about this guy?

Never mind being eaten alive metaphorically, let's hope the Thaksin-funded insurgents nor their idealistic comrade pawns don't find out who he is.

By now surely you know that they are only following the Animatic Roadmap to Forum Domination. There's probably only 3 paid farangs disputing his stuff.

well put together everyone should check this video out

I've just put another video up. It's gonna send the red sympathizers up the wall

Thaksin Empire State of Mind (In Bangkok)

Edited May 18, 2010 by VictorMeldrewBKK

[tangcoral]

Let's see what the body count is today. Anyone? How many woman and children have been cut down by ruthless Army murderers as they tried to make their way to safety.

None today, none yesterday, none the day before and none in the past months.

37 deaths

36 protestors (including civilians, rescue worker(s) and medics) and 1 Army men...

Maybe the reds need more firepower.

[Lopburi99]

Let's see what the body count is today. Anyone? How many woman and children have been cut down by ruthless Army murderers as they tried to make their way to safety. None!? Oh, dear. <snip>

Does anybody in the world (other than this nut) believe this?

Excuse me while I have my day's puke - courtesy NaiGreg.