Standing Up To A Scam Or Stupid Farang?

[birdbirdbat]

On a recent trip up north (CM) I rented Honda dream 125cc from for 5 days. Price was paid per day was 100 b and 50b for “insurance”

I paid for the rental and insurance a total of 750 b for 5 days.

The Owner verbally stated it would cover 50% of it value.

The bike was stolen on May 1st 2005 at 11pm. (I believe I was followed with the owners consent, a Nepalese’s Tailor and the police were in on it too, but of course I cant prove that.)

The insurance document and rental agreement was snatched back by the owner in the police station. There was no duty stamp on it. It was written in English like this.

This insurance documented will cover 50% of it value. I am renting a bike worth 35,000 b. I agree to pay 17,500 b in case of theft or accident.

Signed owner Signed renter

A police report was filed. The motorcycle book was surrendered to the police; they said they wanted to pull the license on it. No agreement was reached between the owner and I. Unfortanaly since the owner snatched back my contract I wasn’t able to confirm the numbers if they matched the plate. The owner also lied to me about the age of the bike. He said it was 1 years old and when I saw the book it said it was 4 years old. Perhaps the book he surrendered was another one? Lucky for me I understand enough Thai and know the calendar.

No agreement was reached between the owner and I for compensation. I have stated over and over that I am happy to pay 50% of its TRUE value. But the amount that was requested 17,500b was an absurd amount. For me, Its not about the money it’s the principle.

I asked the police for helping returning my passport but they refused to get involved.

Since returning home (phuket), a lawyer has confirmed that the insurance document is a fraud. Since he didn't have any "real" insurance on the bike in the first place and there was NO duty stamp on the document. He said that since the document is fraud, the owner would never bring me to court because any judge would throw it out.

My (Thai) partner and lawyer and I have contacted the owner 3 times to negotiate 50% of the real value of a 4 y/o bike but he won’t budge.

I finally contacted my embassy and they placed a call on my behalf to the owner.

To my surprise, their final advice was to walk away and get a new passport.

The owner is saying he will turn my passport over to Thai immigration and get me blacklisted. My Embassy though, just laughed.

Signed, Not being scamed by a shady Thai Guy.

[Ajarn]

Bummer...

There used to be some places in CM with reps for stealing back their own bikes. Sometimes they even planted some dope on the bike and sent cops to your registered address for an inspection. Was personally involved (not as victim or victimizer) in just such a case around 1990. That bike rental company still operates on moon muang rd...

Better luck next time, but don't think yourself that unlucky this time, either. It could have been a lot worse.

[Heng]

Probably best to let it go. Don't worry about the bike rental shop owner as they could probably just sell your passport for more than the bike cost them anyway.

[xyz]

You gave your passport to the owner as collateral for renting the bike, I take it. When I rented a car one time in Phuket, the owner agreed (after I refused to give him my passport) to make a photocopy of it instead. I would not leave the passport w/ a rental agency, given that the Law requires that I have my passport at all times, among other reasons. Also, you should've gone for 100% insurance(or something very close to 100%) not 50%.

Edited June 15, 2005 by xyz

[dr_Pat_Pong]

You gave your passport to the owner as collateral for renting the bike, I take it.  When I rented a car one time in Phuket, the owner agreed (after I refused to give him my passport) to make a photocopy of it instead.  I would not  leave the passport w/ a rental agency, given that the Law requires that I have my passport at all times, among other reasons. Also, you should've gone for 100% insurance(or something very close to 100%) not 50%.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good thinking

[MP5]

You gave your passport to the owner as collateral for renting the bike, I take it.  When I rented a car one time in Phuket, the owner agreed (after I refused to give him my passport) to make a photocopy of it instead.  I would not  leave the passport w/ a rental agency, given that the Law requires that I have my passport at all times, among other reasons. Also, you should've gone for 100% insurance(or something very close to 100%) not 50%.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good thinking

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Treating at least 2 farang motor cycle accident victims daily.

It amazes me when asking the patient do you have a license to ride a motor cycle

"NO" would you ride one of these huge 1100 motor cycles back home with out a liceense"No"

Then you're a bloody idiot now lets start with the 107 sutures you approximately need. You're luck your mums not waiting at the airport for you to come home in a box.

Statistic 2 falang die weekly from motor cycle accidents in Thailand.

I and my colleagues have petioned the police to not allow the vendors to rent to non licensed riders also half of them have no medical insurance.

(Pigs will fly b4 that happens)

Being scammed is one stupidity. How an 18 year old with his new found girlfriend can do 100K's per hour down a city street and then complain the other driver was in the wrong.

Pal you don't even have a license.

I'm actually surprised if the insurance company pay out at all.

I know they wouldn't in most counties if you were unlicensed.

One of my true pet hates I have compassion for the patient and I pride myself on not judging them and treat all patients as patients but man it's frustrating to see a waste of a young human life.

Speed Kills and Sex travels faster

Edited June 15, 2005 by MP5

[Gary A]

Well said MP5. I consider anyone who rents a motorcycle here as having a death wish. You should also know that you MUST have your passport in your possession at all times.

You gave your passport to the owner as collateral for renting the bike, I take it.  When I rented a car one time in Phuket, the owner agreed (after I refused to give him my passport) to make a photocopy of it instead.  I would not  leave the passport w/ a rental agency, given that the Law requires that I have my passport at all times, among other reasons. Also, you should've gone for 100% insurance(or something very close to 100%) not 50%.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good thinking

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Treating at least 2 farang motor cycle accident victims daily.

It amazes me when asking the patient do you have a license to ride a motor cycle

"NO" would you ride one of these huge 1100 motor cycles back home with out a liceense"No"

Then you're a bloody idiot now lets start with the 107 sutures you approximately need. You're luck your mums not waiting at the airport for you to come home in a box.

Statistic 2 falang die weekly from motor cycle accidents in Thailand.

I and my colleagues have petioned the police to not allow the vendors to rent to non licensed riders also half of them have no medical insurance.

(Pigs will fly b4 that happens)

Being scammed is one stupidity. How an 18 year old with his new found girlfriend can do 100K's per hour down a city street and then complain the other driver was in the wrong.

Pal you don't even have a license.

I'm actually surprised if the insurance company pay out at all.

I know they wouldn't in most counties if you were unlicensed.

One of my true pet hates I have compassion for the patient and I pride myself on not judging them and treat all patients as patients but man it's frustrating to see a waste of a young human life.

Speed Kills and Sex travels faster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[lopburi3]

Being scammed is one stupidity. How an 18 year old with his new found girlfriend can do 100K's per hour down a city street and then complain the other driver was in the wrong.

Pal you don't even have a license.

I'm actually surprised if the insurance company pay out at all.

Has a post been deleted or is this just a general rant? All I can find is a stolen motorcycle and I have re read all posts several times.

[udon]

birdbirdbat,

what was the name and address of the rental shop?, so we can all avoid it.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Being scammed is one stupidity. How an 18 year old with his new found girlfriend can do 100K's per hour down a city street and then complain the other driver was in the wrong.

Pal you don't even have a license.

I'm actually surprised if the insurance company pay out at all.

Has a post been deleted or is this just a general rant? All I can find is a stolen motorcycle and I have re read all posts several times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try MP5's post ... it is just up a few posts

[lopburi3]

Being scammed is one stupidity. How an 18 year old with his new found girlfriend can do 100K's per hour down a city street and then complain the other driver was in the wrong.

Pal you don't even have a license.

I'm actually surprised if the insurance company pay out at all.

Has a post been deleted or is this just a general rant? All I can find is a stolen motorcycle and I have re read all posts several times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try MP5's post ... it is just up a few posts

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is what I could not understand as he mentions the 18 year old/girl/speed but guess it is just something seen too often and not in reference to the OP. Do agree that cycle riding here with no experience is a receipt for disaster; especially if you do not understand cycle is barely above pedestrian in the food chain.

[Dragonman]

Every tourist brochure I've seen tells people never to give their passport to the renter. People are still not listening.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Every tourist brochure I've seen tells people never to give their passport to the renter. People are still not listening.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even their own Embassy tries to wise 'em up ... to no avail

[Ajarn]

Being scammed is one stupidity. How an 18 year old with his new found girlfriend can do 100K's per hour down a city street and then complain the other driver was in the wrong.

Pal you don't even have a license.

I'm actually surprised if the insurance company pay out at all.

Has a post been deleted or is this just a general rant? All I can find is a stolen motorcycle and I have re read all posts several times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try MP5's post ... it is just up a few posts

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is what I could not understand as he mentions the 18 year old/girl/speed but guess it is just something seen too often and not in reference to the OP. Do agree that cycle riding here with no experience is a receipt for disaster; especially if you do not understand cycle is barely above pedestrian in the food chain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I sometimes sense that drivers take more pity on pedestrians than motorcyclists... Even bicyclists seem to get more slack cut for them than motorcyclists....

Simply, driving here is a recipe for disaster

[Ajarn]

Every tourist brochure I've seen tells people never to give their passport to the renter. People are still not listening.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Easier said than done. It's been SOP here forever. The other option, of course, is leaving cash, or your cc, like in many hotels, where they make an imprint of your cc card, which you are asked to sign, and that's their security.

I simply called AMEX in Bkk and reported my card as 'lost', and requested a replacement, which I picked up two days later at at tour office in CM. The next bike renter gladly accepted my offer of a Gold Amex card to hold... Amex requires prior okay for all transactions on the card (at that time), so if that shop tried to get a charge authorized, Amex would nail them for possesion of a (now) stolen card, and attempted fraud, or whatever...

Did it a few times and never a problem. I did bust a mirror once, but I had it fixed before I brought the bike back.

[Dragonman]

Being scammed is one stupidity. How an 18 year old with his new found girlfriend can do 100K's per hour down a city street and then complain the other driver was in the wrong.

Pal you don't even have a license.

I'm actually surprised if the insurance company pay out at all.

Has a post been deleted or is this just a general rant? All I can find is a stolen motorcycle and I have re read all posts several times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try MP5's post ... it is just up a few posts

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is what I could not understand as he mentions the 18 year old/girl/speed but guess it is just something seen too often and not in reference to the OP. Do agree that cycle riding here with no experience is a receipt for disaster; especially if you do not understand cycle is barely above pedestrian in the food chain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I sometimes sense that drivers take more pity on pedestrians than motorcyclists... Even bicyclists seem to get more slack cut for them than motorcyclists....

Simply, driving here is a recipe for disaster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AMEN

[Dragonman]

Every tourist brochure I've seen tells people never to give their passport to the renter. People are still not listening.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Easier said than done. It's been SOP here forever. The other option, of course, is leaving cash, or your cc, like in many hotels, where they make an imprint of your cc card, which you are asked to sign, and that's their security.

I simply called AMEX in Bkk and reported my card as 'lost', and requested a replacement, which I picked up two days later at at tour office in CM. The next bike renter gladly accepted my offer of a Gold Amex card to hold... Amex requires prior okay for all transactions on the card (at that time), so if that shop tried to get a charge authorized, Amex would nail them for possesion of a (now) stolen card, and attempted fraud, or whatever...

Did it a few times and never a problem. I did bust a mirror once, but I had it fixed before I brought the bike back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is the advantage of keeping the passport to simply checking it is you on the passport and copying it and your driving licence. When I rented in Pattaya they just took the details on my passport and driving licence. Didn't even make a copy.

[lopburi3]

Every tourist brochure I've seen tells people never to give their passport to the renter. People are still not listening.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Easier said than done. It's been SOP here forever. The other option, of course, is leaving cash, or your cc, like in many hotels, where they make an imprint of your cc card, which you are asked to sign, and that's their security.

I simply called AMEX in Bkk and reported my card as 'lost', and requested a replacement, which I picked up two days later at at tour office in CM. The next bike renter gladly accepted my offer of a Gold Amex card to hold... Amex requires prior okay for all transactions on the card (at that time), so if that shop tried to get a charge authorized, Amex would nail them for possesion of a (now) stolen card, and attempted fraud, or whatever...

Did it a few times and never a problem. I did bust a mirror once, but I had it fixed before I brought the bike back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is the advantage of keeping the passport to simply checking it is you on the passport and copying it and your driving licence. When I rented in Pattaya they just took the details on my passport and driving licence. Didn't even make a copy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps because a percentage of customers would not return the bike - much less pay the rent. With the passport you have to return before you leave the country.

[expatinasia]

I'd follow your friend's advise, and more. I'd get a replacement passport, and then file a police report stating that the passport was stolen by an employee of the rental agency.

[JimsKnight]

I'd follow your friend's advise, and more.  I'd get a replacement passport, and then file a police report stating that the passport was stolen by an employee of the rental agency.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whoah dude I'd be careful reporting stuff stolen when not, the cops can take a dim view if it comes to light of a tit-for-tat retaliation thing however unlikely. I've seen such a road turn nasty when it comes to the thais.

On the whole bike thing, I learned from many falangs that if you are going to make a habit of returning to thailand the easiest way of getting round the bike rental trap is to give them an expired passport or credit card. With a British expired passport in a cover the thai vendor will as likely be none the wiser when you hand it over, If he spots it, feign error and walk away to 'get your real one' before trying another rental place. This gets you out of many sticky stiuations, a prime reason being the trick where they claim damage has been made to the bike that was actually already their. No problem you say keep the passport!

Alternatively stick two fingers up at the rip-off vendors and just buy a bike (about 44,000 for a honda sonic) and keep it at a safe location when away from Thailand.

[EVO]

Ive walked away rfom many a rental place who wants to keep my passport. Im sure in hindsight the OP would have done things differently, but we all live and learn eh. Some of us expect to do business with honesty. Unfortunately, thats a rather outlandish thing to expect here sometimes.

[expatinasia]

Jimsknight,

If the rental agency employee had unlawful possession of my pasport, I'd consider that to be stealing.

It's interesting that you mentioned an expired passport. I'll be relocating to Shanghai, and the Chinese government recommends carrying an expired passport, rather than a valid one - keeping the valid one safe @ home.

[Dragonman]

Every tourist brochure I've seen tells people never to give their passport to the renter. People are still not listening.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Easier said than done. It's been SOP here forever. The other option, of course, is leaving cash, or your cc, like in many hotels, where they make an imprint of your cc card, which you are asked to sign, and that's their security.

I simply called AMEX in Bkk and reported my card as 'lost', and requested a replacement, which I picked up two days later at at tour office in CM. The next bike renter gladly accepted my offer of a Gold Amex card to hold... Amex requires prior okay for all transactions on the card (at that time), so if that shop tried to get a charge authorized, Amex would nail them for possesion of a (now) stolen card, and attempted fraud, or whatever...

Did it a few times and never a problem. I did bust a mirror once, but I had it fixed before I brought the bike back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is the advantage of keeping the passport to simply checking it is you on the passport and copying it and your driving licence. When I rented in Pattaya they just took the details on my passport and driving licence. Didn't even make a copy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps because a percentage of customers would not return the bike - much less pay the rent. With the passport you have to return before you leave the country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or just tell the Embassy you lost your passport. If you're going to steal a bike you may as well tell a lie.

[lopburi3]

The idea is that with passport in hard they can be long gone before any action could be taken to stop them - larger outfits can take that chance but obviously the small players don't want to risk it so they ask for your passport to hold.

People do not get a new passport by telling lies to their Embassy. First they have to report it to the local police, which would not be the smartest thing to do if there were something amiss.

[birdbirdbat]

FOLLOW UP-

The name of the shop was Mr. Beer

On Rajitee Rd. (spell)? In CM

Passport was replaced quickly -I told EVERYTHING to my embassy- I apparently wasn’t the first. I told the Thai police I didn’t have my passport -Mai Mee- that was sufficient to issue a report. Visa tranferred no problem. All is good.

Thanks for (most) of your coments. Hope this help some others in the future. Thanks BBB