Thailand Under Intense Pressure To End This Chaos

[lungmi]

How can a ceasefire with criminals been considered? They need to be arrested and brought to court, not given sweet deals on top of the millions they've already been paid.

You're right; this illegitimate government should be removed immediately!

You mean the Red Camp Gouvernement?

[lungmi]

From POST BAG section of the Bangkok Post

* Published: 14/05/2010 at 12:00 AM

* Newspaper section: News

A de facto failed state

Without even noticing it, Thailand has become a de facto failed state. Let's look at some of the symptoms:

1. The government controls neither the army nor the police.

2. The army supports special interests, rather than the nation.

3. The police are unable or unwilling to enforce the law.

4. The government negotiates with different groups (red, yellow and multi-coloured) which carry no legitimacy, whose leaders have not been elected and who represent a small fraction of the country's population.

5. The leaders of these groups are not ready to accept the results coming from the ballots.

6. Groups having lost the elections are determined to take the streets (or the airports), in order to topple any government that, to their eyes, is not legitimate.

7. Governments can't last more than a few months, during which their actions are restricted by many outsiders, so much so that they become puppets, with no meaningful power.

Thailand's future might well look like today's Somalia.

BRUNO

failed poster

[neverdie]

An interesting article on why this crackdown may be a waste of time.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37203123/page/2/

UG, I read that before and they have probably put some good points in there BUT, you can bet you're bottom dollar that theres plenty more complications than what is mentioned in there. Remember, this is the place where people say one thing and do another, then willingly state they did something else or deny any knowledge of anything whatsoever.

I'd say, things are even more complicated than most of us realise, there's hidden adgendas at every corner and traffic lights at every intersection showing green all round and dozens of egos speeding head on into the intersection whilst the egos busy on the telephone telling lies about something else.

[neverdie]

Actually, I always said that I prefer the current government to stay in power and I always supported the PM. I support him even more now after seeing how he has handled this. However, I also felt - and still feel - that the redshirts have some legitimate grievances and these need to be addressed if the country is going to move forward.

The spiteful, poison pen red-haters seem to think that anyone who does not rant and rave about them is a redshirt supporter, but some of us have sympathy for their problems while realizing that the leaders are mostly crooks. I live in Chiang Mai and many of these people are my neighbors and most of them are not bad people. They just want a chance to improve their lives.

They made their point several weeks ago and could have had a real chance at a strong voice in Thai politics, but they blew it when they turned down the PM's generous peace deal and now everyone is paying for their leader's stubbornness.

I hope there is some way to salvage some kind of solution, but it is time for them to admit their mistake and give up fighting. They were so close to really accomplishing something important , but they rejected ending this peacefully, so no cigar.

Good post...some good points made

Yeah ole dad UG comes up with some beauties sometimes, as long as he's had his hourly medications & his diper changed regularly.

[Bakseedaa]

If the PM does not crush the rebellion he will be criticized. If he does he will be vilified. He is in a no-win situation.

I'm glad we have such a good man in charge at a time like this. Look at some of the past PMs. Who knows what kind of bonehead will replace him?

We love Abhisit........

[BNZ]

 

If Abhisit stood for election he would lose that is why he's adamant that he won't and has never had any intention of doing so.

The so called peace deal included the proviso that all the Red Shirt Leaders plus others in Phue Thai (including General Chavalit) surrender themselves to the Police to be charged. The charges include Treason and a plot to overthrow the Monarchy. The plot was presented by Abhisit and his proof was hundreds of names connected by squiggly lines on a white board. He has never been able to present anything else to substantiate his accusations.

The Yellow Shirts occupied the airports but they all got bail and in fact are still walking around free today.

The Red Shirts have denounced the charges of treason and plotting to overthrow the monarchy as nonsense. However, they agreed to surrender on condition that they were granted bail to fight the charges in Court. (They and the other people accused of taking part in this dreamed up plot intend to sue Abhisit for criminal libel and lesse majeste). They have been told that they can't be guaranteed bail. Because of the seriousness of the charges (ridiculous as they are) without bail they could all be in gaol for years even before the case went to Court. Would you have agreed to accept Abhisit's peace deal?

It is also interesting as to what will happen to Abhisit after he loses his parliamentary immunity when the Court dissolves the Democrat Party for corruption and money laundering because the prison terms for criminal libel plus lesse majeste could mean that he would be inside for life.

PS you should read the article about the Thahan Phran (Border Rangers) in the Bangkok Post, 25th April 2010, Entitled "The boys in black Thailands dangerous dark influence." (Spectrum). I don't think that the Thahan Phran could be very happy about their idol being assasinated. I wonder who they're going to blame?

"..If Abhisit stood for election he would lose.."

Ha ha ha the Reds have lost so much face that even the upcountry Reds are now quietly shunning them.   

Also remember that during the televised negotiations Abhisit threatened to put house 

dissolution up for a referendum, which the reds did not want..!

Abhisit would win in a landslide !

"...The Red Shirts have denounced the charges of treason and plotting to overthrow the monarchy as nonsense.

...... (They and the other people accused of taking part in this dreamed up plot..." 

The treason is obvious ..and speakers on the stage at Rajasaprong were repeatedly harping on the unmentionable, heard by 'thousands of witnesses' but not reported in the press because it's unmentionable.

It's a solid accusation. YOU are dreaming !

"...the prison terms for criminal libel plus lesse majeste could mean that he would be inside for life."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha how dense are you ?....oops my ass fell off again..!

[khunjamespittman]

If the PM does not crush the rebellion he will be criticized. If he does he will be vilified. He is in a no-win situation.

I'm glad we have such a good man in charge at a time like this. Look at some of the past PMs. Who knows what kind of bonehead will replace him?

I think there are probably at least 38 families of the men, women, and children killed who would disagree with your views. The man in charge has this blood on his hands.

I certainly wouldn't wish on your country.

[brahmburgers]

If the PM does not crush the rebellion he will be criticized. If he does he will be vilified. He is in a no-win situation.

I'm glad we have such a good man in charge at a time like this. Look at some of the past PMs. Who knows what kind of bonehead will replace him?

I think there are probably at least 38 families of the men, women, and children killed who would disagree with your views. The man in charge has this blood on his hands.

You must be referring to Thaksin.

BTW, 38 dead is a lamentable number, but less than an average 2 days toll of deaths on Thai highways. .....or one day's carnage during New Years' or Songkran' 'holidays.'

[yoshiwara]

The international reaction mentioned in the opening article chiefly concerns the facts that the army has shot too many protesters who were not posing an imminent threat to life, and that film of this has been broadcast into living rooms around the world. Posters here choose to ignore this simple truth. It does not matter that a minority of redshirts have firearms. People look at the balance of casualties between civilians and military and draw the obvious conclusion about who is doing most of the shooting. Yes, the redshirts should have accepted a compromise. Yes, their leaders are a motley crew. Yes, there was a period when Aphisit did exercise restraint. On the evening of April 9th he did not, and in the last week he has allowed further breaches of international standards on the use of force. Of course, there has been a negative international reaction and he is losing the battle for hearts and minds.

No doubt it suits you and the other Thaksin cheerleaders for the red rioters to use their own families as human shields.

Anything for Thaksin eh?

As for losing the battle for hearts and minds. many of the press are now catching on to the Thaksin angle and discarding your 'the majority are innocent'.

They want violence and now are they are going home one way or another.

Not for one moment

Not for one second.

have the rioters deviated from Arisman's encouragement to burn Bangkok.

Innocent civilians? A bad joke.

An attack on the workers of Bangkok and their livelihoods.

Lumpens for Thaksin.

Time to go.

Edited May 18, 2010 by yoshiwara

[selftaopath]

The human nature dictates to stop these madness. The longer goes on the worse the situation will become. The Red had a perfect way to end it all but they refused since the objective is not really democracy. I believe restraint is a good think but in this case will not work. No matter how long you wait to stop these violence, it will have to be done the same way. Except the longer it is delayed the more life will be lost.

Agreed. The sooner the better. Faster action initially would have had faster results. Currently the revolutionaries have effectively shut down most of Bangkok. They have done it with fewer individuals, and less money from "boss man." They are the ones showing skills and determination. Where are the BIB now??? LOL ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what a joke.

[selftaopath]

If a patient (Bangkok) is suffering a major internal problem (Red occupation), then surgery (crowd dispersement) is a reasonable option. Surgery involves knives cutting in to flesh (military tactics) and no surgery would be viable if the surgeons abandoned their task before its done.

A ceasefire sounds good to observers from afar. But for those who have been following events closely, it's known that a ceasefire would immediately result in retrenchment of Reds. The same cycle of reasonable offers (by gov't) only to be rebuffed or stalled by Thaksin and the Reds would continue. Meanwhile, Reds would stay entrenched and probably increase their barricaded areas, and the continued deterioration of Bangkok.

UN chief and other top bananas can be expected to call for ceasefire and and end to hostilities (what else can they say?), but the reality is more complex.

... I'm glad you're not in charge. Even one innocent life is worthy of a reevaluation, ceasefire, or 'pull back' to achieve NON-MILITARY intervention in this dilemma. History has demonstrated time and time again, a country DOES NOT deploy military forces against its civilian population. The only 'reasonable' use of this tactic would be in a time of national crisis… i.e. total breakdown of the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches... that is not the case here.

The Generals of Burma are most likely cheering this on as it unfolds.

I agree with,"a country DOES NOT deploy military forces against its civilian population." BUT this country has NO police force. So who else might, even remotely, enforce any law in Lack of Sanctions (LOS)?

[selftaopath]

The Nation is sooo touching trying to persuade itself.

Bla bla bla bla, and non sense!

The constitution does not work, the judges are biased. That's it.

There are no good Thais, No bad Thais, only Thais who lack a political system allowing them to live in harmony.

The system is fine.

It's the corruption that causes the problems.

Corruption remains, spreads, and diminishes. Taking money to vote is yet another form of corruption. The list of corrupt behavior would be long.

[Ulysses G.]

If the PM does not crush the rebellion he will be criticized. If he does he will be vilified. He is in a no-win situation.

I'm glad we have such a good man in charge at a time like this. Look at some of the past PMs. Who knows what kind of bonehead will replace him?

I think there are probably at least 38 families of the men, women, and children killed who would disagree with your views. The man in charge has this blood on his hands.

I certainly wouldn't wish on your country.

My country - and most countries - would have stopped this two months ago and if they had to kill hundreds of people, they would have done it.

Abhisit has done everything he could to limit bloodshed, but he has to protect the interests of the whole country. Let's just hope that he can end this without hurting the women and children and elderly that are willingly being used as human shields.

[selftaopath]

Instead of cutting flesh or cracking nuts,

how about simply offering any willing and able body a job in their own province.

"It is understandable why the international community and human rights organisations are so concerned with the political crisis in Thailand - which used to be a poster child for democracy some two decades ago. Obviously, this country has serious social problems, especially the widening of the income gap between the haves and have-nots and other issues."

Indeed.

Lack of Sanctions (LOS) has may "issues." Can any working class person get any response from politicians or BIB? Corruption is at the root of much of this. I asked my wife a/b a large parking lot out door bar located at Petchburi and Thonglor which does not close and has a karoke loud speakers going all night long; effects all who live w/in a 5 block radius. I asked why someone doesn't do something? She asked me who can anyone call??? The bar is owned by a cop and politicians only care about their own financial gain. Again the people with little money have NO voice. They must continue to endure. It is not surprising that many want rights that are supposed to be afforded them under Thailand laughable democracy. Who with power or money cares? I suspect no one.

[yoshiwara]

Instead of cutting flesh or cracking nuts,

how about simply offering any willing and able body a job in their own province.

"It is understandable why the international community and human rights organisations are so concerned with the political crisis in Thailand - which used to be a poster child for democracy some two decades ago. Obviously, this country has serious social problems, especially the widening of the income gap between the haves and have-nots and other issues."

Indeed.

Lack of Sanctions (LOS) has may "issues." Can any working class person get any response from politicians or BIB? Corruption is at the root of much of this. I asked my wife a/b a large parking lot out door bar located at Petchburi and Thonglor which does not close and has a karoke loud speakers going all night long; effects all who live w/in a 5 block radius. I asked why someone doesn't do something? She asked me who can anyone call??? The bar is owned by a cop and politicians only care about their own financial gain. Again the people with little money have NO voice. They must continue to endure. It is not surprising that many want rights that are supposed to be afforded them under Thailand laughable democracy. Who with power or money cares? I suspect no one.

Thousands of working class people in Bangkok have lost their income as a result of the Thaksin reds invading their working neighbourhoods.

That is the solid analysis.

Not the idle chatter

[george]

Closed. This story continues here:

Red-Shirt Leaders Turn Themselves In At National Police Office

Rajprasong rally ends; protesters to go home

Full story:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirt-Le...al-t366886.html

Live updates Wednesday:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Bangkok-Red-...html&st=100