Thai Troops Violate Law In Bangkok Action: Amnesty

[animatic]

I believe Amnesty International has over reacted after been fed by mis-leading information from the RED side.

They should be invited to see first hand that only 1 solider have been killed over the last 5 days or so in Bangkok. This is a fact. I am confirm this.

While from time to time Amnesty has some very good points,

sometimes they go off half-cocked or based on one-sided hearsay.

This seems one of those times.

The combined efforts of the unknown, but obvious, group of 'black snipers ',

shooting at any target, including and maybe especially reds,

and likely also winging journalists to scare them off, and control the message better,

and some 'neutral reporters' sending out one-sided info,

is no doubt PART OF THE PLAN to bring down the government.

As well as high numbers of posts on many forums with strong usage of keywords

to give a greater impression of a certain message. I think Amnesty has been played by pros.

Yo, Bobby Amsterdam, you having a good day yet?

Edited May 18, 2010 by animatic

[Credo]

I think Amnesty got it right.

[StevieH]

there's a quite staggering lack of understanding in this thread of what constitutes a breaking of international human rights laws. that many people can't get their heads around the fact that human rights laws apply to elected governing bodies and administrations and not to groups of people shacked up in a road somewhere breaking domestic laws reflects very badly on the average IQ of a thaivisa poster.

[FarangCravings]

"Eyewitness accounts and video recordings show clearly that the military is firing live rounds at unarmed people who pose no threat whatsoever to the soldiers or to others," said Amnesty's Thailand specialist Benjamin Zawacki.

Less wacki tobacki for Mr. Zawacki :

This guy is not firing at 'unarmed' people, he's firing with a hangun at the might of Thailands military who are armed to the teeth including M79 grenades, strange that eh ?

[see image above]

According to all official announcements, the Army is not allowed "heavy weapons" which include m79 grenades. My understanding is the grenades and RPGs are being used by the red side. If you have any evidence otherwise, I would be interested.

And I would be interested in you posting a red shirt shooting an RPG

[atyclb]

only way out of this now. reds won't back down to government demands to disarm as they don't trust them = government incapable of defusing the situation = get UN in as arbitrator.

think the thai government is too proud or stubborn to take this obvious step at present though.

Option A) Reds can tell the UN they want to go home and stop rally. UN can participate in their peaceful dissolution.

Option B ) Announce that Robert Mugabe will be put in charge to replace CRES

Edited May 18, 2010 by atyclb

[Waldkater41]

I believe Amnesty International has over reacted after been fed by mis-leading information from the RED side.

They should be invited to see first hand that only 1 solider have been killed over the last 5 days or so in Bangkok. This is a fact. I am confirm this.

I GUESS YOU ARE A COUSIN OF ABHISIT, HAHA

[bangkokjohn]

there's a quite staggering lack of understanding in this thread of what constitutes a breaking of international human rights laws. that many people can't get their heads around the fact that human rights laws apply to elected governing bodies and administrations and not to groups of people shacked up in a road somewhere breaking domestic laws reflects very badly on the average IQ of a thaivisa poster.

Agreed. Very upsetting video of Thai Army sniper killing 5 people in Rang Nam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXcT4dtRtnE

This doesn't even happen in Burma or North Korea!

For you who insist it's the reds shooting and not the Army. CNN filming Army snipers killing Thais

Edited May 18, 2010 by bangkokjohn

[Markaew]

I am not understanding the admins because they are not controlling this useless flaming and mud slinging at all. I can only assume they are deleting the posts they agree with and allowing the flaming to go in mostly in one direction.

[KMUTT]

Who it was that supplied them with the flawed info: http://www.facebook.com/robert.amsterdam

a very recent interview with Thaksin's new Public Relations Team/Law Firm

Robert Amsterdam

Defending a controversial figure against ‘the people with bayonets’

In an interview with Globe Asia correspondent Mark MacKinnon, Canadian lawyer Robert Amsterdam makes the case for his latest high-profile international client, ousted Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra

From Friday's Globe and Mail Published on Friday, May. 14, 2010

Depending on how you view the cases he takes on, Canadian lawyer Robert Amsterdam is either a noble defender of democracy, or someone who has an interesting habit of ending up beside the rich and power-hungry as they fall from grace.

Famous for publicly butting heads with the Kremlin while defending jailed Russian oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky, Mr. Amsterdam was recently hired as international counsel to Thaksin Shinawatra, Thailand’s fugitive former prime minister.

Mr. Thaksin is de facto leader of the Red Shirt protests that have paralyzed much of Bangkok since March in an effort to bring down the government of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

On Thursday, those protests veered again into violence, which the Thai government blames on Thaksin.

Mr. Amsterdam’s newest client is arguably his most controversial yet. To some in Thailand, Thaksin is the country’s legitimate leader, the only politician ever to win back-to-back elections, before being deposed by a 2006 military coup.

But to the Thai government and its supporters, Thaksin is a convicted criminal and a “terrorist” who is masterminding the sporadically deadly unrest in Bangkok from an unknown location abroad.

Mr. Amsterdam, unsurprisingly, disagrees. He spoke to The Globe and Mail by telephone this week shortly after meeting his client in person at an undisclosed location.

How did you end up as international lawyer for Thaksin Shinawatra?

People make introductions. Thaksin was aware of our work previously and reached out to us through intermediaries. One of the things we have done in recent years … is work with people who have been victimized by the state, either corporations or, in some cases, opposition figures.

You recently spoke with your client. Can you tell me anything about how he is and where he is?

We met just a few days ago. He was in fine form, contrary to the many rumours [circulating in Thailand] that he’s withering. He’s not in any of the locations that he advertises because Thai authorities work very hard on essentially disturbing the rhythms of his activities. The Thai government is not a legitimate government. They recognize that [Thaksin] is hugely popular in Thailand, so they view him as a threat.

A government that is based out of a military barracks, whose genesis of power is a 2006 military takeover, who is operating on a constitution [introduced in 2007] that does not reflect the people’s will and was adopted during a period of strong military control … this is not a legitimate government. It’s very important that Canadians and others not allow the people with bayonets to use those bayonets to justify their ability to rule. I think it says a lot for the people of Thailand that so many of them have risen to defend the [pre-coup] constitution.

Did Thaksin make any reference to the Red Shirt protests in Bangkok? How does he view what’s happening there?

He’s grieving over the loss of life – on April 10 [the date of a failed military effort to disperse the protests], dozens were murdered in cold blood – and he’s concerned with finding a way out of this. He believes that only through a fair, independent election, through letting the Thai people go back to their actual democratic institutions, can this be resolved.

Why won’t Thaksin, if he’s innocent, return to Thailand and take on the corruption charges against him?

He has as much right to level charges against those in power, those who are levelling charges against him. Thailand is not a country that can boast an independent judiciary. That’s not a matter of partisan comment, that’s an accepted fact. Given the discriminatory, selective and, quite frankly, ridiculous nature of the proceedings against him, I don’t think he would be well advised to subject himself to the arbitrary rules of those who don’t respect the 1997 constitution.

Does your client still harbour hope of returning to Thailand and to active Thai politics some day?

In terms of returning to Thailand, it’s clear that it’s his country and it’s fair to say that, obviously, he would want to return. But his concerns about the future of the country trump any political ambitions. He’s not a man who is greedy for power … I think he’s more concerned with getting a normal life back.

You’ve drawn parallels between Thaksin’s case and some of your other famous clients, including Mikhail Khodorkovsky and former Nigerian cabinet minister Mallam Nasir el-Rufai. Beyond their legal situations, what do they have in common?

As the great Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya [who was murdered in 2006] told me many years ago, it is always, or generally, the most corrupt who use corruption as their tool to attack their enemies. Whether it’s Russia, or Thailand, or Nigeria, we are seeing a more cavalier attitude towards respecting basic norms of international law and governance. That’s a real matter of concern, I think, for all of this.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/...article1568550/

As a footnote, I found that his defense of the Russian Mikhail Khodorkovsky resulted in a conviction and 8 year prison sentence for Mr. Amsterdam's client.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Amsterdam

[KMUTT]

He’s not a man who is greedy for power …

uhmmmm yeah... ok... if you say so.

[rabo]

Less wacki tobacki for Mr. Zawacki :

This guy is not firing at 'unarmed' people, he's firing with a hangun at the might of Thailands military who are armed to the teeth including M79 grenades, strange that eh ?

[see image above]

According to all official announcements, the Army is not allowed "heavy weapons" which include m79 grenades. My understanding is the grenades and RPGs are being used by the red side. If you have any evidence otherwise, I would be interested.

And I would be interested in you posting a red shirt shooting an RPG

So far:

1. RPGs have been fired at a 200,000 litre fuel storage tank (April)

2. Last night 3 RPGs fired at the upper floors of the Dusit Hotel, initial reports were 3 rockets, don't know if that still holds.

Only pictures of the fuel storage tank were of the hole after the fire was put out.

Haven't seen pictures of the Dusit incident but later reports said one of the exploded rockets was shown to the reporters hiding in the basement, perhaps they took a picture of that, maybe they will show up later.

Edited May 18, 2010 by rabo

[TheOldWolf]

there's a quite staggering lack of understanding in this thread of what constitutes a breaking of international human rights laws. that many people can't get their heads around the fact that human rights laws apply to elected governing bodies and administrations and not to groups of people shacked up in a road somewhere breaking domestic laws reflects very badly on the average IQ of a thaivisa poster.

Agreed. Very upsetting video of Thai Army sniper killing 5 people in Rang Nam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXcT4dtRtnE

This doesn't even happen in Burma or North Korea!

can only see one dead people on the video and we see no sniper, so we don´t know who shot!

[Ulysses G.]

We also don't know what they were doing before the video camera started recording.

[StevieH]

all talk of m79s, RPGs and calibre of sniper ammunition is completely irrelevant when discussing breach of human rights laws.

Q. is the elected thai government's army using live rounds in live fire zones where there are unarmed protesters present including women and children?

A. if yes, they are breaching international human rights laws and need to bloody well stop.

[hegralow]

good grief, are people incapable of reading a statement properly on here? amnesty international is not saying that nobody in the red camp is armed. it is saying that SOME of the people in there, specifically women and children, are unarmed and are being fired at with live rounds by a nation state's army. that is a violation of human rights, whether they are in the red camp by choice or not.

People on here read what they want to read steve, it is clear that unarmed people that pose no immediate threat are being shot and killed, but some on here think that being in a protest is justification enough to be shot and killed, even the two red cross operative trying to help people were murdered by the army.

I saw this morning on television the army showing only 3 protesters carrying weapons, I would rather see footage of the people they shot and murdered with guns or grenades posing an immediate threat to life, sadly though they don't seem to have any of this footage as the people shot and killed were on the whole unarmed and posing to immediate danger.

Hopefully people will take note of this report, well people that matter and not the usual red shirt haters on here.

i should have known better in all honesty. people on here do read only what they want to read despite the fact that amnesty is a politically neutral organisation concerned only about the human rights of innocent civilians around the world. that some people ignore that in their rush to judge is sad.

Stevie, are you saying that Amnesty International is only concerned with the rights of INNOCENT civilians? I beg to differ. They are mostly concerned with the rights of GUILTY people. Don't get me wrong, I think they have done much good in the world but sometimes get carried away and obsessed with those who are clearly criminals in every sense of the word.

[ukfool]

"Eyewitness accounts and video recordings show clearly that the military is firing live rounds at unarmed people who pose no threat whatsoever to the soldiers or to others," said Amnesty's Thailand specialist Benjamin Zawacki.

Less wacki tobacki for Mr. Zawacki :

This guy is not firing at 'unarmed' people, he's firing with a hangun at the might of Thailands military who are armed to the teeth including M79 grenades, strange that eh ?

[see image above]

According to all official announcements, the Army is not allowed "heavy weapons" which include m79 grenades. My understanding is the grenades and RPGs are being used by the red side. If you have any evidence otherwise, I would be interested.

You just hit the nail on the head 'According to all official announcements'

[hansnoi]

(.....) I think the Reds have been smart in their smoozing of the press with the comfortable press centre , fawning staff and lots of photo op's. I think a lot of foreign journalists are lazy and fell for the Red seduction and found it easy to pop into the press centre , pick up the latest horror stories and feed it out as journalism from deep in the heart of Red territory. Early this morning there was a live feed from the Red press centre by an ABC (Oz) journalist ,speaking in hushed tones ,decked out in helmet and bullet proof vest , poor lighting or she could have been a sniper target etc, the only thing wrong was that people in normal clothes were going to and fro behind her. Am I right about the press, those in the business know for sure, but this is my view. (....)

As a former journalist and foreign correspondent for decades I totally agree with this party of the message from poster Mausman. A major part of the international press corps is lazy, duplicates what others have been writing/commenting and specially the tv reporters try to 'juice up' their stories and tv feeds to show their editors and audience back home how brave they are in extremely dangerous situations. I have a hard time explaining the Thai situation to my friends back home, because they read and hear from their newspapers and tv that this is a conflict between 'the Bangkok elite' and the 'rural poor' fighting for democracy. This kind of labelling provides the easy way out for foreign journalists, limited as they are in background knowledge and tv-time and newspaper space to explain a situation which is not easy to understand. Since journalists mostly are liberal people they tend to sympathize with the 'poor' against the establishment and in that sense the Red agitprop department had field days.

Amnesty Internatonal today encouraged the simplifiers of the international press. They now will mention the AI-statement in any story they bring from Thailand. The government is put in the role of human rights violator against a 'movement for democracy'. Who wants soldiers to use live ammo on unarmed pro democracy protesters who pose no threat? I do not! I regret every human life lost in this tragedy. But it is worthwile to read the AI-statement in full, especially the part which gives the 'background'. Notice how first is underlined that the Red Party is calling for 'greater democracy' and 'consistently' demanded dissolution of parliament and new elections. The peaceplan of Abhisit is mentioned shortly, followed by the line that the Reds initially accepted it and after that came with their own plan (the demand for Sutrep to report to the police!)

If you ask yourself why Amnesty is suddenly so concerned about human rights violations in Thailand follow this link (http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2009/09/05/amnestys-silence-on-lese-majeste/) or Google Zawacki, amnesty, new mandela. It will show you how one sided Amnesty is and that mr. Zawacki's statement is just a kind of 'damage control'.

Personally I don't take sides in this conflict. But I noticed the effects of the Amnesty declaration in the international media and even on this Forum. Since the attack of the red protesters on the hospital two weeks ago the 'usual suspects' of the red propaganda machine suddenly disappeared from this forum. I missed their posts, mostly starting with phrases like 'let me explain why...'. or 'let's flip the argument'.... or 'the Thai people want....'. After the Amnesty declaration they are back in numbers.

I still hope that this conflict comes soon to an end in a more or less peaceful way. I hope the leaders of both sides use their common sense and act with respect for human life. Thailand is on the brink of total disaster and for sure is not helped with the kind of 'support' Amnesty International demonstrated today.

[gymboy33]

I believe Amnesty International has over reacted after been fed by mis-leading information from the RED side.

They should be invited to see first hand that only 1 solider have been killed over the last 5 days or so in Bangkok. This is a fact. I am confirm this.

While from time to time Amnesty has some very good points,

sometimes they go off half-cocked or based on one-sided hearsay.

This seems one of those times.

The combined efforts of the unknown, but obvious, group of 'black snipers ',

shooting at any target, including and maybe especially reds,

and likely also winging journalists to scare them off, and control the message better,

and some 'neutral reporters' sending out one-sided info,

is no doubt PART OF THE PLAN to bring down the government.

As well as high numbers of posts on many forums with strong usage of keywords

to give a greater impression of a certain message. I think Amnesty has been played by pros.

Yo, Bobby Amsterdam, you having a good day yet?

just like mr taylor charged with genocide in africa,, blamed it on the other side killing each other!!!

[neverdie]

I am loathe to post in any way to seem to take so-called 'sides' here- but I really have to laugh about Amnesty complaining that the government here has violated the 'law'. Which 'law'? Since the police disappeared, I haven't been aware that there was any operative 'law' here in the city, and if this crisis ever ends it will be interesting to see on what basis the 'police' claim the right to 'enforce' any other 'law'.

I suppose it could be about the Geneva Convention or some other treaty to which Thailand is a signatory, but I doubt that the terrorists care- they're not exactly playing by the whole 'wear a uniform which identifies you' kind of thing, which kind of makes it hard to determine who is who according to the rules of war- or that the way-too-inexperienced-and-untrained army recruits have exactly been filled in on the subtleties.

All-in-all, a poor showing for Thailand.

Don't be loathed to come out and call something as it is. Well said, absolutely no point in beating around the bush.

[FarangCravings]

there's a quite staggering lack of understanding in this thread of what constitutes a breaking of international human rights laws. that many people can't get their heads around the fact that human rights laws apply to elected governing bodies and administrations and not to groups of people shacked up in a road somewhere breaking domestic laws reflects very badly on the average IQ of a thaivisa poster.

Agreed. Very upsetting video of Thai Army sniper killing 5 people in Rang Nam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXcT4dtRtnE

This doesn't even happen in Burma or North Korea!

can only see one dead people on the video and we see no sniper, so we don´t know who shot!

One thing you guys can see is that none of them are armed or in black shirts,

but you will probably STILL say that they are hiding there weapons under there dead bodys

[Netfan]

This "report" has nothing to do with anything expect that Thaksin paid alot of money to Robert Amsterdam to stir up this sort of propaganda

http://www.robertamsterdam.com/

(hint if you ever need world propaganda fed to international sources, he is your goto man)

I definitely would never support the reds or thaksin/mob violence, but the current government is incompetent as well

me thinks both need to go.

Excellent job shah! bit of a coincidence isn't it? you think AI received any large contributions this week originating in Montenegro?

[StevieH]

good grief, are people incapable of reading a statement properly on here? amnesty international is not saying that nobody in the red camp is armed. it is saying that SOME of the people in there, specifically women and children, are unarmed and are being fired at with live rounds by a nation state's army. that is a violation of human rights, whether they are in the red camp by choice or not.

People on here read what they want to read steve, it is clear that unarmed people that pose no immediate threat are being shot and killed, but some on here think that being in a protest is justification enough to be shot and killed, even the two red cross operative trying to help people were murdered by the army.

I saw this morning on television the army showing only 3 protesters carrying weapons, I would rather see footage of the people they shot and murdered with guns or grenades posing an immediate threat to life, sadly though they don't seem to have any of this footage as the people shot and killed were on the whole unarmed and posing to immediate danger.

Hopefully people will take note of this report, well people that matter and not the usual red shirt haters on here.

i should have known better in all honesty. people on here do read only what they want to read despite the fact that amnesty is a politically neutral organisation concerned only about the human rights of innocent civilians around the world. that some people ignore that in their rush to judge is sad.

Stevie, are you saying that Amnesty International is only concerned with the rights of INNOCENT civilians? I beg to differ. They are mostly concerned with the rights of GUILTY people. Don't get me wrong, I think they have done much good in the world but sometimes get carried away and obsessed with those who are clearly criminals in every sense of the word.

sometimes they side on the side of not nice people yes, but only to ensure that people get fair trials in line with human rights laws. they as far as i'm aware of have never defended anyone found guilty of crimes by a fair and just legal system.

amnesty international is as previously posted a politically neutral organisation which in this instance, as regards the rights of unarmed people caught up in a live fire zone in bangkok, is absolutely spot on. thailand is breaking human rights law, again, whatever your views of the redshirts aims and tactics.

[rabo]

retracted

Edited May 18, 2010 by rabo

[gemini81]

there's a quite staggering lack of understanding in this thread of what constitutes a breaking of international human rights laws. that many people can't get their heads around the fact that human rights laws apply to elected governing bodies and administrations and not to groups of people shacked up in a road somewhere breaking domestic laws reflects very badly on the average IQ of a thaivisa poster.

Agreed. Very upsetting video of Thai Army sniper killing 5 people in Rang Nam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXcT4dtRtnE

This doesn't even happen in Burma or North Korea!

For you who insist it's the reds shooting and not the Army. CNN filming Army snipers killing Thais

you forgot before and after the scene there, where the men at the left and right aren't hit at all.

Bottom line, don't play with fire, you won't get burned. if you're retarded enough to be in the firing zone, then you got it comin'

[cdnvic]

I am not understanding the admins because they are not controlling this useless flaming and mud slinging at all. I can only assume they are deleting the posts they agree with and allowing the flaming to go in mostly in one direction.

You haven't got a clue the kind of work people put into this place to keep it readable and not a free for all flame war so you can throttle your blind accusations.

[whiterussian]

dont worry i dont know of any country that takes AI seriously.

What planet are you expats on?

Oh I can't wait for the elections, be such sweet revenge for reading all these right wing posts if the 'terrorists' win!

I give Ahbisit about a week before he gets booted out by the military, or until the death toll reaches 100 civilians. (I can only hope he gets booted out)

How vain is this man that would continue the slaughter from his bunker to keep his job! When the probability is he would never win a 'popular' vote! (according to just about every source I have read!)

- Now he wants the reds to return to the original site! Bwaah haah ahaa! Something has got to give.. and its Ahbisit!

Edited May 18, 2010 by whiterussian

[StevieH]

there's a quite staggering lack of understanding in this thread of what constitutes a breaking of international human rights laws. that many people can't get their heads around the fact that human rights laws apply to elected governing bodies and administrations and not to groups of people shacked up in a road somewhere breaking domestic laws reflects very badly on the average IQ of a thaivisa poster.

Agreed. Very upsetting video of Thai Army sniper killing 5 people in Rang Nam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXcT4dtRtnE

This doesn't even happen in Burma or North Korea!

For you who insist it's the reds shooting and not the Army. CNN filming Army snipers killing Thais

you forgot before and after the scene there, where the men at the left and right aren't hit at all.

Bottom line, don't play with fire, you won't get burned. if you're retarded enough to be in the firing zone, then you got it comin'

are you saying that you advocate war crimes against innocent people? seems like a lot of people on here are actually.

[bangkokjohn]

there's a quite staggering lack of understanding in this thread of what constitutes a breaking of international human rights laws. that many people can't get their heads around the fact that human rights laws apply to elected governing bodies and administrations and not to groups of people shacked up in a road somewhere breaking domestic laws reflects very badly on the average IQ of a thaivisa poster.

Agreed. Very upsetting video of Thai Army sniper killing 5 people in Rang Nam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXcT4dtRtnE

This doesn't even happen in Burma or North Korea!

can only see one dead people on the video and we see no sniper, so we don´t know who shot!

Amazing how many people defend killing these poor people. You sell bullets or something? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" as Sinclair so rightfully said.

Who do you think is shooting in this video? Micky and Mini?

[Netfan]

all talk of m79s, RPGs and calibre of sniper ammunition is completely irrelevant when discussing breach of human rights laws.

Q. is the elected thai government's army using live rounds in live fire zones where there are unarmed protesters present including women and children?

A. if yes, they are breaching international human rights laws and need to bloody well stop.

Why don't the reds stop burning tires, shooting rpg's, using children as shields? oh, yeah, thaksin won't let them.

[phosphorescent]

there's a quite staggering lack of understanding in this thread of what constitutes a breaking of international human rights laws. that many people can't get their heads around the fact that human rights laws apply to elected governing bodies and administrations and not to groups of people shacked up in a road somewhere breaking domestic laws reflects very badly on the average IQ of a thaivisa poster.

Agreed. Very upsetting video of Thai Army sniper killing 5 people in Rang Nam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXcT4dtRtnE

This doesn't even happen in Burma or North Korea!

For you who insist it's the reds shooting and not the Army. CNN filming Army snipers killing Thais

Sniper didn't shoot 5 people. One was killed, the rest got away. The thai army showed the full video on tv the other day because of misleading info. You obviously didnt see the full footage.