Thai Filial Piety And Love For Spouse

[Dove]

I am a 48 year old man who has had a 10 year relationship with a Thai girl who is 7 years younger. When the relationship started it was the all roses. After 10 years and many repeated attempts to ask her to legalize our marriage I am told that by her that she had promised her late father that she will not marry although she had promised me in the early years. There seems to be conflict between her being with me and her sick mother of 80. Her mother had objected to our relationship as I am a chinese but not a Thai and living nearby outside Thailand and visit her very regularly. Is there anybody out there who has the same problem and has his relationship challenged by filial piety? What could be a probable solution besides going on to another affair? I love her oo much to do something like this.

She claims that I am selfish because she loves her parents very much as they gave her life. I guess this is true as she was the best of a million swimmers.

Are Thais racist?

[pnustedt]

She claims that I am selfish

Find out how much she/her parents want and then decide for yourself!

[sbk]

no, its probably not because you are chinese. Pnustedt could be right, it could be money. but to be fair, i have a thai-chinese friend who was basically raised to take care of her parents when they got old, was never allowed to get married. and now that they are old, she takes care of them, unmarried! guess they had her so browbeaten as a child she never thought of going against their wishes. can't say this is the norm, but it does happen.

[monitorlizard]

Very difficult situation. Yet, she sounds like a nice gal. I don't think you being Chinese has that much to do with it. Might, but I think the bigger problem is you taking their daughter away from them.

You can always find a compromise. Try the suggesstion of frequent trips for your girlfriend say every 2 months. I don't know if your girlfriend works but if she does maybe she is uncertain about losing the security.

Anyway, why is marriage so important anyway? I hate to bring this up but is there a possibility of her being married before? If so, maybe her still legal husband refuses to divorce her or she cannot find him to sign the papers. This is a big problem in Thailand. A former prime minister is not leagally married to his wife because her legal husband will not sign the divorce papers.

Good luck.

[D80]

Agree with Monitorlizard and others, there may be more than just one issue here. If it's not the money, she may genuinely want to take care of her mother.

If you two marry, will she have to be away from her mum & dad? As you may have noticed, in Thailand, the concept of being 'katunyuu' is very important, especially when it's between parents and child. It's in the culture in a way that many Thais (and many Asians for that matter) are raised to be eternally grateful to their parents for giving them life (whether they will be is another story). And since there are no state benefits in Thailand, people rely on their family a whole lot more.

I know a Thai woman who broke up with her non-Thai boyfriend when he asked to marry her and take her to his country. She said this is because she cannot leave her sickly mother on her own. It was a sad story but it does happen. Let's hope your relationship won't end up like that. I'm sure if you play the card right, it will work out in the end.

Perhaps one way of getting around the problem is to explore other ways that you two can be together. Is it possible that you can come and live in Thailand? If she doesn't have to leave her mum's side then maybe she will be ok about it.

And also, her mum is already old. She is also ill. How long do you think she will hang around for anyway? I mean, no disrespect or anything. But you and her may not need to take any drastic action and just have to try to keep the relationship alive for the time being. If the relationship can outlive her mother, then you both would have no further problem and no one's feeling would be hurt in the process. Meanwhile, you could find a way to live iin Thailand with her, even if it is only temporary.

Good luck anyway!

[Dove]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your responses. The problem is not money, it's just her and I guess if I can wait for her mom to die if she does before me then again I don't know because she might say that she needs to look after the graves. Also truthfully, her mom had forbidden her to marry a non-Thai.

I don't mind settling in Chiang Mai, its a great place but with the current Thai policy on immigration, it's going to be tough. In fact I had actually planned to settle in Chiang Mai and am exploring some business opportunities.

Sometimes I think that the problem is that I am stuck on her and should consider redundancy by being polygamous but I won't be able to handle the mother-in-laws.

I guess marriage is not important after all, it's just a religious value that I was brought up with, the chivalry of being a gentleman. If one of the last Prime minister can live that way and not frown upon why not. Perhaps my thoughts should be more focus an me and not her.

Yes she works, it was great when she was in Lamphun because the hours were shorter and she had Saturdays and Sundays off. Now she is in Chiang Mai and I think working for an ambigious boss and he makes them work from 7:30 am to sometime 9:00 at night and they need to work on Saturdays too. I can tell you some of these bosses are tyrants and take advantage of staff who believe that work is enjoyable like the Thai word Tum Nghan. I recall years back when we were suppose to have a holiday and she said nope we cannot go because the boss wants to visit his province in the weekend as he is the MP there.

I had the fine opportunity to sit beside the MP from Chiang Mai on my flight to Bangkok last Tuesday and I asked her about the work hours, hinting that after various re-organisations in the goverment units the staff are working longer hours.

I mentioned that this was unhealthy for the staff and their families and could lead to more problem kids on the streets. Well to her best of her knowledge she said that the staff were compensated. Well, I wonder as I note that there are no minimum hours on the job. Maybe that is why there are so many single women in Thailand. Actually, I fearded to ask her if she was married, as hse might have gotten the wrong idea if she wasn't.

I had also always felt that if I was married to her I would have at least more of her time. I really hate her job and her need to be with her mother although she has a widowed sister and an unemployed brother to look after the mother. Actually, the late brother-in-law was a wise Thai man, he married 5 wives when her sister was in the U.S. looking after her nephew and neices. Lucky man but he died young.

Well till the wind blows to my advantage, I will just be a frustrated Dove.

Cheers.

[Axel]

Dove, I only clicked your story now, the subject did not push me. Sorry!

After having read it, I have a Chinese friend; 20 years ago his grand-mother was on the machine in hospital. After months and months, the family decided 'pull the plug'. My friend decided, his uncle, my friend too, decided.

She was 99 years old.

Years later, the grandfather of my friend fall ill. My friend had no choice, had to go to the hospital, stay for weeks over-night, because the grandfather did not want anybody else. Months later he died, 101 years old.

Why I give you this story? My friend is now in his 50s. His girlfriend stays with him for 20 years, already. She told me, 'I will not marry him, because the next two will be father and mother, myself only the wife.'

Your problem is the other way round, but in my real life experience, filial piety comes always first. Can you wait, until all the family is gone? I am not cynical, I tell you the facts. As a husband, you are a respected in-law, but family comes first.

Your thinking of small 'hsiao tai-tai'? Forget it, it will not work even if you translate as 'mia-noi'.

Good luck to you.

[pnustedt]

Well till the wind blows to my advantage, I will just be a frustrated Dove.

Dove

An old Indian poem which came to my attention today made me think of your predicament: "Look well for this day . . . for yesterday is but a memory and tomorrow is only a vision."

[Dove]

Axel and Pnustedt, I read your posting. Perhaps tomorrow is just a vision and we should live for the day. We worry too much about tomorrow to live and love for today. And my girlfriends policy is don't tell me anything I don't want to know. Somehow things appear better for her this way, it doesn't matter if someone else is hurting.

Axel, I know that filial piety is most important but your friend has one up over me is that his girlfriend lives with him even if he cannot marry her if I understand you correct. Mine doesn't, and I see her twice maybe three times a year now because I cannot live in Thailand and I want to but there are complications like being married (not due to me) and having lots of money to do so. When I reach Chiang Mai it is always a mixed feeling of whether I am going home or am I just a visitor because I have to wait for her at the hotel to finish her job which may be as late as 8:00 pm and she goes home by 10:00pm because it is not safe and she has to go to check on her mother. On Saturdays it is because she has to bring her mother to somewhere and on Sundays it is again shared with her mom so if I am lucky I get a few hours too. At least the father is gone so may be I get a little more time. Some times it is very hard on me to make the effort to be with some one I love, maybe I am a fool for which I seek no sympathy, to be there for a 4 day stay to include a weekend so that I would not distturb her 7 day leave a year. So okay there are 52 weekends a year and she has an unemployed brother and a widowed sister and I am there for the average of two weekends, am I asking for too much.

As a civil servant she slaves for the job at the expense of her own health, I too have to share the time with her job. I often wonder if the boss and her sub-ordinates have no spouses who are asking for their attention too. I recall one male Thai friend once told me that it was bad to go home early because you will not have an excuse to go home late if you are with someone else. Hence Axel, the question of "Mia noi". I recall a biography I read written by a Thai author and he relates how his late mother had found a Mia noi for his father as she was getting too sickly to look after the father. I also wonder if the many divorces and singles in her department are due to the lack of empathy by the managers about social life and that there is life after the office.

I met a very handsome young Thai man of 33 on my flight home recently and he showed me his PDA. He said it is a little wonder, one day he will only need to carry the PDA as it has all the information and entertainment he needs. I told yes, but not your wife. He totally agreed and said that the PDA had taken his life as he works till 2 am sometimes and has no social life or girlfriend. Sad but true.-Dove