Loss Of Face In South East Asia

[thairet]

Thoughts...do you agree?

The philosophical concept and reality of "loss-of-face" has caused:

a) a failure to rise academically, professionally, business-wise etc in SAE

B ) one of the main reasons for SEA being comprised of mainly 2nd world countries (a generous comment for most SEA countries)

It is apparent in current Thai politics (as it always has been of course).

It is prevalent in business.

It is deterious to education.

It is inherent in the psyche of Thai people (I love them but for different reasons).

It is a destructive, obstructive, illogical way of thought IMHO.

Personally, when I had no money, no power, I did not give a rat's ass about who knew. Now I have some money and a modicum of power, I still don't give a rat's ass about who knows. It is essentially ephemeral.

Tell me what you think, please, especially re Khun Brathet Thai.

Thairet

[thairet]

Moderator, Your system has added an innaproprate smiley in the middle of my comment instead of the "" i wrote!

What's the problem please?

Thairet

[richieudon]

IMHO.... It's like playground antics..

[soundman]

Bug in the software. "b )" is also code for .

Moved to general forum as not Bangkok specific.

[neverdie]

Moderator, Your system has added an innaproprate smiley in the middle of my comment instead of the "" i wrote!

What's the problem please?

Thairet

let me see, a few thousand crazies all posting at probably one of thai visas busiest periods on record.

[ESB7]

Loss of Face in Thailand , you gotta be kidding, its a myth. I would never borrow money from anyone as I think that is a loss of face, yet Thais are always sponging off people and not paying it back. Another example is one of the common professions amongst women,that is another area that shows they just dont have any pride or care about loosing face.

[Garry9999]

The philosophical concept and reality of "loss-of-face" has caused:

a. a failure to rise academically, professionally, business-wise etc in SAE

b. one of the main reasons for SEA being comprised of mainly 2nd world countries (a generous comment for most SEA countries)

I think not, "face" is also very prevalent in Japan and South Korea, but it hasn't stop those nations becoming successful industrial countries.

Any failure to rise academically, professionally, business-wise etc in SEA, has more to do with the way the countries are, and have been governed by their institutions and governments.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Garry9999

[leogerritsen]

Loss of Face in Thailand , you gotta be kidding, its a myth. I would never borrow money from anyone as I think that is a loss of face, yet Thais are always sponging off people and not paying it back. Another example is one of the common professions amongst women,that is another area that shows they just dont have any pride or care about loosing face.

"LOSS OF FACE" is the most important in Thailand involving all other things and making all other things less relevant.

Ichecked this out many times during my stay here in the Kngdom.....

[StreetCowboy]

Loss of Face in Thailand , you gotta be kidding, its a myth. I would never borrow money from anyone as I think that is a loss of face, yet Thais are always sponging off people and not paying it back. Another example is one of the common professions amongst women,that is another area that shows they just dont have any pride or care about loosing face.

Your face is different.

Maybe that's because you're a foreigner. You can tell foreigners from their face. Its scarcely surprising.

I imagine some people think that looking after their families is more important than the work they do to achieve that, and would feel that they had lost more face if they could not feed their children than if people found out that they were a consultant or a banker.

SC

[givenall]

But remember the people over here are like ostridge birds. They put their head in the sand and since they don’t see anything they think they are invisible. So loss of face happens only if they are visible so Thai put their head in the sand so everything is ok

[wintermute]

This situation is still nothing. It's a minor insurrection. Let me know when you see tank battles or Beirut style death squads.

[ESB7]

Loss of Face in Thailand , you gotta be kidding, its a myth. I would never borrow money from anyone as I think that is a loss of face, yet Thais are always sponging off people and not paying it back. Another example is one of the common professions amongst women,that is another area that shows they just dont have any pride or care about loosing face.

"LOSS OF FACE" is the most important in Thailand involving all other things and making all other things less relevant.

Ichecked this out many times during my stay here in the Kngdom.....

LOSS OF FACE when it suits. Please explain the above if it isnt.

[ESB7]

Loss of Face in Thailand , you gotta be kidding, its a myth. I would never borrow money from anyone as I think that is a loss of face, yet Thais are always sponging off people and not paying it back. Another example is one of the common professions amongst women,that is another area that shows they just dont have any pride or care about loosing face.

Your face is different.

Maybe that's because you're a foreigner. You can tell foreigners from their face. Its scarcely surprising.

I imagine some people think that looking after their families is more important than the work they do to achieve that, and would feel that they had lost more face if they could not feed their children than if people found out that they were a consultant or a banker.

SC

That is a cop out...its so easy to turn to that profession or something else like drug dealing or burglary to feed your family rather than work hard for a lot less. That to me is real LOSS OF FACE if you do that.

[StreetCowboy]

8>< SMIP - NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

That is a cop out...its so easy to turn to that profession or something else like drug dealing or burglary to feed your family rather than work hard for a lot less. That to me is real LOSS OF FACE if you do that.

That's your face, not theirs.

A lot of people feel that drug-dealing or burglary are harmful trades, and eschew such activities, for reasons other than concern about loss of face.

A lot of people find prostitution an unpleasant trade to work in - I'm guessing largely because of the people they meet in it - and soldier on with whatever else they choose to do instead, whereas others choose to bear the unpleasantness. I think that we should be treating everyone with respect, whether they do a job to which we aspire or not, setting aside for a moment moral judgement and bigotry. Just because someone engages in a trade we abhor, whether it be debt collector, publican or game show host, we should not judge them just on the basis of their profession, or our image of that profession.

SC

[Berkshire]

The concept of "Loss of face" can be explained simply as follows: One should not offend, embarass, defame, or otherwise, "hurt someone else's feelings" if it is at all avoidable. In other words, try not to cause another a "loss of face." What on Earth is wrong with that? On second thought, don't answer that. The blowhards on this forum will try to find reasons to offend and even justify it. Me personally, if I can go through the day without hurting someone's feelings, then I'm good with that.

[Briggsy]

Forget "loss of face" which is used as a crap excuse for everything from bad driving to insurrection.

Thailand's failings have a lot more to do with the lack of a work ethic, a weak education system, massive inequalities, financial, geographical and racial, and ill-discipline in virtually every field running the gamut from law enforcement to personal development.

[ESB7]

The concept of "Loss of face" can be explained simply as follows: One should not offend, embarass, defame, or otherwise, "hurt someone else's feelings" if it is at all avoidable. In other words, try not to cause another a "loss of face." What on Earth is wrong with that? On second thought, don't answer that. The blowhards on this forum will try to find reasons to offend and even justify it. Me personally, if I can go through the day without hurting someone's feelings, then I'm good with that.

Thats really good if we could get through the day like that. I suppose when you dont pay someone money back that you borrowed, or con someone out of money or overcharge them, you are not hurting their feelings, I suspect you think it would make a person happy to have that done to them. The Thai liking blowhards on this forum will try to find reasons to justify this

[thairet]

The philosophical concept and reality of "loss-of-face" has caused:

a. a failure to rise academically, professionally, business-wise etc in SAE

b. one of the main reasons for SEA being comprised of mainly 2nd world countries (a generous comment for most SEA countries)

I think not, "face" is also very prevalent in Japan and South Korea, but it hasn't stop those nations becoming successful industrial countries.

Any failure to rise academically, professionally, business-wise etc in SEA, has more to do with the way the countries are, and have been governed by their institutions and governments.

Excellent point Garry!

[Berkshire]

The concept of "Loss of face" can be explained simply as follows: One should not offend, embarass, defame, or otherwise, "hurt someone else's feelings" if it is at all avoidable. In other words, try not to cause another a "loss of face." What on Earth is wrong with that? On second thought, don't answer that. The blowhards on this forum will try to find reasons to offend and even justify it. Me personally, if I can go through the day without hurting someone's feelings, then I'm good with that.

Thats really good if we could get through the day like that. I suppose when you dont pay someone money back that you borrowed, or con someone out of money or overcharge them, you are not hurting their feelings, I suspect you think it would make a person happy to have that done to them. The Thai liking blowhards on this forum will try to find reasons to justify this

I think you're hanging around the wrong sorts of people if you're constantly getting ripped-off, hit-up for money, and so on. Have some personal issues, do you?

[elkangorito]

The philosophical concept and reality of "loss-of-face" has caused:

a. a failure to rise academically, professionally, business-wise etc in SAE

b. one of the main reasons for SEA being comprised of mainly 2nd world countries (a generous comment for most SEA countries)

I think not, "face" is also very prevalent in Japan and South Korea, but it hasn't stop those nations becoming successful industrial countries.

Any failure to rise academically, professionally, business-wise etc in SEA, has more to do with the way the countries are, and have been governed by their institutions and governments.

In Asian countries, 'loss of face' depends strictly upon the 'CULTURE'.

The reason why Japan and South Korea are successful industrial countries is because that the CULTURE in these countries has 'grown up' (changed) to suit current world requirements. The ramifications of 'loss of face' have simply been modified so that it doesn't have a huge impact upon a business.

In Thailand, the CULTURE is indoctrinated upon the masses. Of course, 'loss of face' is a part of the CULTURE. Until Thailand grows up & makes changes to it's CULTURE, 'loss of face' will continue to have a dramatic impact upon everything.

The key word here is 'change'. Actually, I should say that the key words here are 'strong resistance to change'. Hopefully, Thailand & countries like it, will soon see that the world is in a constant state of flux. As such, those who resist change will feel pain & suffer conflict (not 'going with the flow').

In summary, 'loss of face' is not a problem unless it is supported by a CULTURE that refuses to submit to any form of change. Therefore, the ultimate problem is CULTURE & not 'loss of face'.

[tfc]

All cultures have face they just look different is all.

[tw25rw]

I suspect they all have a better insight into the SEA mentality than we do. Maybe some thought he should have gone in Chinese style and massacred all the reds up and down the country. Others may have thought he was too tough. But they all have their own problems and ways and means of dealing with them

[NBD]

I can't really find any difference between the concept of "face" and what westerners would call pride.

Of course in Thailand the priorities are different from what they are in the west, where again they vary hugely between different countries, regions, social groups and individuals. Perhaps also it's more keenly felt here than in most western countries, but the idea seems to be the same.

[tigerboy]

I can't really find any difference between the concept of "face" and what westerners would call pride.

Spot on!

[kevozman1]

Loss of Face in Thailand , you gotta be kidding, its a myth. I would never borrow money from anyone as I think that is a loss of face, yet Thais are always sponging off people and not paying it back. Another example is one of the common professions amongst women,that is another area that shows they just dont have any pride or care about loosing face.

Your face is different.

Maybe that's because you're a foreigner. You can tell foreigners from their face. Its scarcely surprising.

I imagine some people think that looking after their families is more important than the work they do to achieve that, and would feel that they had lost more face if they could not feed their children than if people found out that they were a consultant or a banker.

SC

That is a cop out...its so easy to turn to that profession or something else like drug dealing or burglary to feed your family rather than work hard for a lot less. That to me is real LOSS OF FACE if you do that.

"Loss of face";

More important to people in most other countries than Thailand.

Edited May 24, 2010 by kevozman1