Thailand’s World Trade Center (central World) Destroyed

[travellife]

It is ironic that Central World first opened in 1990 and was called the World Trade Center. In 2002 it was renamed to Central World Plaza. And in 2005 it was renamed to CentralWorld.

When I first came to Thailand, it was the CentralWorld area that I could see the modernization of Thailand. At the time, the plaza had holiday decorations and several beer gardens with live music. It seemed to be an icon of modern Thailand. The large display in the plaza showed music videos. Inside, the shops were expensive, but there was an abundant of inexpensive places to eat. The food court overlooked a green space area.

But this was not a facility for everyone. Just down the street there were hundreds of street vendors, whom this facility was not built for.

The burning of CentralWorld seems to be an indication of the struggle between the haves and the have-nots. This current conflict may be resolved, but such conflicts will not disappear. Is this the beginning of an uprising that may disappear for several years and reappear even stronger in the future?

I do not side with any past government body. I only see that this may be an indication that the have-nots are voicing their opinion.

[tw25rw]

If they'd burnt Gaysorn it would have been more symbolic and inconvenienced less people.

[PattayaParent]

So you think the street vendors burnt it down?

I don't think their customers would be shopping in CentralWorld.

[Soutpeel]

Not symbolic in any way, just a case of what can we destroy on the way out......

[Somtamnication]

Why would it impact Thai society? Only hi-so folk shop there and a good portion of Thai society could not afford to shop there. It is the burning of an ultra large shop house. Many others to go to.

[sokal]

So you think the street vendors burnt it down?

I don't think their customers would be shopping in CentralWorld.

It got scorched guess but how do you burn down a concrete building ?

I am no structural engineer but will they actually have to demolish the building or just replace some glass and drywall ? I think the structure should be fine.

[Loz]

SOkal,

If you used google for just 5 minutes before posting you could avoid sounding a bit silly...

Can you seriously not figure out how high temperatures would change the structural safety of builings made from steel/iron reinforced concrete?

I'm no scientist but I would question the safety of a very tall building that is filled with the general public that has been subjected to extreme heat. Maybe I am just an overcautious ninny. But I think most civil engineers would back me on this one. Insurance underwriters too...

[Heng]

Thank goodness for 'have' insurance.

[sokal]

SOkal,

If you used google for just 5 minutes before posting you could avoid sounding a bit silly...

Can you seriously not figure out how high temperatures would change the structural safety of builings made from steel/iron reinforced concrete?

I'm no scientist but I would question the safety of a very tall building that is filled with the general public that has been subjected to extreme heat. Maybe I am just an overcautious ninny. But I think most civil engineers would back me on this one. Insurance underwriters too...

Do you consider some out of control garbage can fire extreme heat ? I am not saying you are wrong but lets see you make a campfire out of concrete, steel and glass.

[canuckamuck]

SOkal,

If you used google for just 5 minutes before posting you could avoid sounding a bit silly...

Can you seriously not figure out how high temperatures would change the structural safety of builings made from steel/iron reinforced concrete?

I'm no scientist but I would question the safety of a very tall building that is filled with the general public that has been subjected to extreme heat. Maybe I am just an overcautious ninny. But I think most civil engineers would back me on this one. Insurance underwriters too...

Do you consider some out of control garbage can fire extreme heat ? I am not saying you are wrong but lets see you make a campfire out of concrete, steel and glass.

Parts of the structure have already collapsed.

And yes an out of control garbage can fire could produce extreme heat, depends on fuel and air flow.

[dave111223]

Thank goodness for 'have' insurance.

Don't most insurance policies have exclusions for acts of terrorism and war?

Either way someone is punching a wall right now.

[Loz]

SOkal,

If you used google for just 5 minutes before posting you could avoid sounding a bit silly...

Can you seriously not figure out how high temperatures would change the structural safety of builings made from steel/iron reinforced concrete?

I'm no scientist but I would question the safety of a very tall building that is filled with the general public that has been subjected to extreme heat. Maybe I am just an overcautious ninny. But I think most civil engineers would back me on this one. Insurance underwriters too...

Do you consider some out of control garbage can fire extreme heat ? I am not saying you are wrong but lets see you make a campfire out of concrete, steel and glass.

Ok, Not my own work but I think you get the picture...

Seriously, fella. Go enjoy a drink and girl by the beach. This serious stuff might be a bit much for you.

[Khutan]

It won't affect me too much, it was too far to walk from the BTS and the carpark was a shocking to get in and out of.

[FarangBuddha]

If they'd burnt Gaysorn it would have been more symbolic and inconvenienced less people.

True. Gaysorn very hi-so...Central World...mid-market. I'm sure Thaksin is happy Gaysorn and its L-V botique was spared (a courtesey to their leader I suppose) ...will save him trips to Paris for shopping when he returns

Sad for all the shop girls, cleaning staff, and security guards (Issan Reds?) have lost their jobs and all the small shop owners that may have lost everything.

Edited May 20, 2010 by FarangBuddha

[Lost in LOS]

Why would it impact Thai society? Only hi-so folk shop there and a good portion of Thai society could not afford to shop there. It is the burning of an ultra large shop house. Many others to go to.

hundreds of restaurants with food supplied by red shirt farmers

countless workers out of a job, no more money send to red shirt family

countless taxi drivers out of a job, no more money send to red shirt family

countless delivery truck drivers out of a job, no more money send to red shirt family

need i go on. Its stupid thinking like yours that gets these poor people in trouble, they don't see the big picture. Before they were getting screwed a few baht on their rice, now they wont sell any. They might have to rethink, and learn just basic economics. Everybody is connected to their rice bowl in some manner

[popshirt]

I do think it is Thailand's 9/11 and things won't go on as they have for decades now.

Whether or not Thaksin is factored into the mix doesn't matter at this point.

As to effect, I have been with two Thai friends today in Los Angeles and both wept when they saw the fotos of CentralWorld.

Both are from Isaan and are ethnic Thai.

[Loz]

MCOT: Fire at Central World under control but side of Zen department store building begins to collapse, says Police Operation Centre spokesman: AFP

still not convinced, Sokal ?

[TheLaughingMan]

SOkal,

If you used google for just 5 minutes before posting you could avoid sounding a bit silly...

Can you seriously not figure out how high temperatures would change the structural safety of builings made from steel/iron reinforced concrete?

I'm no scientist but I would question the safety of a very tall building that is filled with the general public that has been subjected to extreme heat. Maybe I am just an overcautious ninny. But I think most civil engineers would back me on this one. Insurance underwriters too...

Do you consider some out of control garbage can fire extreme heat ? I am not saying you are wrong but lets see you make a campfire out of concrete, steel and glass.

Foolish man, the mall was ENGULFED in flames floor by floor. What exactly do you think is going on here? A few peaceful protestors lighting a bit of garbage on fire and we are all making too much of it? Im getting sick of people trying to downplay the severity of the crimes being committed by terrorists.

[Heng]

Thank goodness for 'have' insurance.

Don't most insurance policies have exclusions for acts of terrorism and war?

Either way someone is punching a wall right now.

I'm sure it'll be spun by all parties involved into a nice compromise. The bent over and screwed position is for the little people.

[tonititan]

I do think it is Thailand's 9/11 and things won't go on as they have for decades now.

I think that's a bit of a stretch. Yes, perhaps both involved the destruction of a major iconic building, but the destruction of Central World didn't cause the deaths of thousands of people. No comparison there.

[neverdie]

Whilst I can see photo's of the fire, some evidence of structural problems (ie reporst of sections collapsing) and speculation about the levels of damage, I am left scratching my head about how this fire was lit & how it spread, seemingly rather quickly.

I've often looked at concrete structures and thought about fire (fire concerns me, ive been trapped by it before) and have often made assumptions that it would be difficult for fire to spread quickly in these types of buildings. Obviously I am wrong, but I wonder how it was lit, what sort of accelerants were used & basically how it spread throughout this massive structure?

What about fire sprinkler systems, I'm guessing there were none or the water was turned off?

Its a terrible thing to see so many fires lit in this way, it honestly doesnt do anyone any good, it serves no argument or political purpose in any way.

[tb86]

SOkal,

If you used google for just 5 minutes before posting you could avoid sounding a bit silly...

Can you seriously not figure out how high temperatures would change the structural safety of builings made from steel/iron reinforced concrete?

I'm no scientist but I would question the safety of a very tall building that is filled with the general public that has been subjected to extreme heat. Maybe I am just an overcautious ninny. But I think most civil engineers would back me on this one. Insurance underwriters too...

Do you consider some out of control garbage can fire extreme heat ? I am not saying you are wrong but lets see you make a campfire out of concrete, steel and glass.

Yeah, man please think before you speak....these are survey shots from this am.... idiot

[wintermute]

I've often looked at concrete structures and thought about fire (fire concerns me, ive been trapped by it before) and have often made assumptions that it would be difficult for fire to spread quickly in these types of buildings. Obviously I am wrong, but I wonder how it was lit, what sort of accelerants were used & basically how it spread throughout this massive structure?

I'm guessing they burned the stores with clothing first which gave the fire plenty to consume. It wouldn't surprise me if there were various pieces of insulation, chemical lacquer/paint, and synthetic wood, and plastics all over the main areas of the mall which were also flammable and added to the speed at which the building burned down. Just recall that it lasted for 6-8 hours at that point.

Another possibility is that there was some insurance fraud going on too. It's pretty unlikely but a possibility that shouldn't be overlooked.

[davee58]

I do think it is Thailand's 9/11 and things won't go on as they have for decades now.

Whether or not Thaksin is factored into the mix doesn't matter at this point.

As to effect, I have been with two Thai friends today in Los Angeles and both wept when they saw the fotos of CentralWorld.

Both are from Isaan and are ethnic Thai.

Agreed.

This is likely to become a symbol of the pointless destruction carried out by organised thugs (Terrorists).

Like 9-11's World Trade Centre, the Bangkok Central (WTC) is a perfectly valid excuse for the Government to clamp down on civil liberties in Thailand, in fact they must do so.

Curfews for a few days, then I would imagine that the military will need to assume greater control to "protect" the country.

Idiots who believed that the red-shirt "peaceful action" would result in greater democracy have pushed things in the opposite direction.

But TIT

[wintermute]

Like 9-11's World Trade Centre, the Bangkok Central (WTC) is a perfectly valid excuse for the Government to clamp down on civil liberties in Thailand, in fact they must do so.

It's more similar to the Reichstag fire.. A major symbolic building is burnt and the government declares martial law and starts cracking down on "undesirables" around the country.

Then again none of these comparisons are all that valid because Central was still just a shopping mall. A symbol of wealthy and middle class Thais to be sure but fairly meaningless in the scheme of things since commerce always bounces back first.

If they burned down a museum or historic temple it would have meant a lot more to the country..

[Loz]

You'd think we would get used to be staggered by the stupidity of others, but no, it gets me still.

I'm really know scientest but these stores were made of concrete, yes, but they housed all manner of materials, There will have been pockets of air building up creating back drafts. Flamable materials including plastics, oils, paper and fabric etc... The idea that this was some kids lighting a few rubbish bins is not even laughable.

I would be interested to know what fire suppression measures they had though. I have worked in an idustry where fire suppression was critical and I have known even the greatest levels of protection to fail (due to human error). So I am not shocked that Central World was raised to the ground. But curious as to how it happened. Were the burning tyres used?

[sanook2me]

Whilst I can see photo's of the fire, some evidence of structural problems (ie reporst of sections collapsing) and speculation about the levels of damage, I am left scratching my head about how this fire was lit & how it spread, seemingly rather quickly.

I've often looked at concrete structures and thought about fire (fire concerns me, ive been trapped by it before) and have often made assumptions that it would be difficult for fire to spread quickly in these types of buildings. Obviously I am wrong, but I wonder how it was lit, what sort of accelerants were used & basically how it spread throughout this massive structure?

What about fire sprinkler systems, I'm guessing there were none or the water was turned off?

Its a terrible thing to see so many fires lit in this way, it honestly doesnt do anyone any good, it serves no argument or political purpose in any way.

You may have already seen the video on Thai News.

There are wooden pallets stacked floor to ceiling in the door ways...I am assuming they were used as a base to start the fire and not for security measures to stop people entering...

however you never know in this crazy place.... stacks of wooden pallets make great bonfires in England and i am sure great accelerants for burning of any building.

[wintermute]

There were probably dozens of smaller chemical fires blazing inside central too which are very difficult to put out and even a fully equipped western country's firefighters brigade would have trouble with that sort of containment.

[Loz]

Sokal,

You actually sound like your Avatar now. An all time low, I am sure.

[Samuian]

Decapitation of the Erawan Deity, blood soaked - ah' well - won;t go into detail, blood sprinkling campaign, black mess, spirit rituals.... think there is something very evil if not completely insane out there...