Battle In Bangkok - This Is No Peasant's Revolt

[tominbkk]

" Human Reaction towards the lost of love ones who are being murdered openly without humane justice. "

....snip diatribe....

I do not blame a soldier, facing molotov cocktail throwing, M79 launching, pistol wielding and building burning thugs for doing what they have to do to regain the safety for the vast majority of Thai people.

Civil protests are extremely well tolerated in Thailand. But when the leaders of protests start threatening to burn down buildings, derail public transportation, and killing people, it is another matter indeed and the government has every right in the world to crack down as hard as they need to maintain the safety of its civilians.

[SomTumTiger]

The Red shirt Legacy

Edited May 20, 2010 by SomTumTiger

[hawker9000]

The real act of terrorism here is that T and his redshirt lieutenants co-opted a timely and perfectly valid social movement and turned it into a terminally-divisive bloodletting. Those most deserving of being served were instead duped and betrayed into service as soldiers in a struggle for power and into sacrificing goals that were quite possibly otherwise within their reach.

[markt7081]

What this article fails to do is point out that the recent acts of insanity was probably not representative of the wishes of the majority of people who wish for real reform.

I can quite understand how some peaceful protesters got suckered into remaining there, with all the excitement & emotions.

Maybe the press could run a story on that to balance things up later on.

The people now running amock are clearly of a different ilk & are simply anarchists, clearly they have to be stopped.

What is now needed is for Mr A to take leadership & announce the election date, for sooner rather than later.

Hopefully that would further alienate the extreemists.

I understand that bad news sells newspapers, and there should be no censorship, but the (Thai) press should have a duty to also publish editorial promoting the way forward (even if it will take backstage to the violence).

We are talking about the long term future of the country. People are sitting in boardrooms all over the world, deciding which countries to establish investments, factories etc in.

[somtampet]

Some of the posters here need to calm down and really think through all that has occurred since the reds took over Bangkok in March. I concur that many TV members seem to have adopted pro-red agendas and it very may well be because they have been influenced by their Thai wives....many of whom sprang from Isaan roots and whose greater families also support the red cause. They do so because of how the reds built their base of support in Isaan and in the poorer districts of the north, creating a fabric of mistruths and slowly but inexorably beating them into an anti-government frenzy. My own spouse is not from Isaan and her northern family all consists of hard-working and moral people, but even she is beginning to see that the carefully orchestrated and putative peaceful political aims of the reds have been undermined by the other, decidedly sinister side of their strategy which believes in using broad but well-camouflaged provocative violence to create fear and sow worry amongst the Thai people...all with the grand goal of returning Thaksin and his thugs to power. In the latter regard, the reds are and will continue to do so; the extent of which nobody knows at this time. This impartial link below has been posted in another TV forum but is well worth listing again. It explains a lot and I encourage all TV readers to take a close look at it:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE13Ae01.html

Now is not the time to continue sniping at each other on this forum. It is a time to understand what has happened to Thailand and what led us to these sad days of infamy, and to hope and pray that the huge sectarian chasm that has been created does not drop all of us into the abyss.

HUGE SECTARIAN CHASM?????

From your post,it is you who are doing this.How the hel_l do you know that farangs who seem to be pro-reds are being influenced by their issan gf/wife.Your post tries to make it clear that your gf/wife is NOT from Issan,as though its some sort of no no to love an issan lady.

This is the whole reason why there are problems in Thailand with views like you.I believe the reds have lost a lot of supporters due to this rioting in Bangkok,but let me tell you one thing,there is plenty of hatred towards bangkok thais and farangs by thai people in Chonburi,so think about that please.

[dogleg]

The real act of terrorism here is that T and his redshirt lieutenants co-opted a timely and perfectly valid social movement and turned it into a terminally-divisive bloodletting. Those most deserving of being served were instead duped and betrayed into service as soldiers in a struggle for power and into sacrificing goals that were quite possibly otherwise within their reach.

Well said Hawker.

[SomTumTiger]

HUGE SECTARIAN CHASM?????

From your post,it is you who are doing this.How the hel_l do you know that farangs who seem to be pro-reds are being influenced by their issan gf/wife.Your post tries to make it clear that your gf/wife is NOT from Issan,as though its some sort of no no to love an issan lady.

This is the whole reason why there are problems in Thailand with views like you.I believe the reds have lost a lot of supporters due to this rioting in Bangkok,but let me tell you one thing,there is plenty of hatred towards bangkok thais and farangs by thai people in Chonburi,so think about that please.

Think about this.

[gemini81]

If a picture speaks a thousand words this one sums up the hypocrisy of those reds who claim the protesters where peaceful

http://inapcache.boston.com/universal/site...22_23466709.jpg

biased reports aside, one believes what one can see (minus those doctored red shirt photos)

so much for "just sling shots and rocks" look at the soldier's arm.

[ferd54]

OOOH... that word again... BKK elite. Do you even know what that means?

Bangkok is the capitol of Thailand. If they're not allowed to be "elite" (whatever the hel_l that means), WHAT.THE.F_UCK do you suggest them to be?

Instead of throwing xenophobic labels around, why don't you address the real policy issues that disturb you?

I worked for Sutachai Yoon and have been involved with other "upper class" "well educated" Sino-Thai Bangkokians. I will leave aside detailed comment on the work conditions at the Nation, because I am no doubt biased after the shocking treatment I experienced there in 1991. Suffice it to say that foreigners are only tolerated because they are a necessary evil in an English-language newspaper.

I will, however, pass along my general observations on the wealthy in BKK: Their sense of superiority and entitlement is nauseating. They play only by their own rules and are literally above the law when it comes to day-to-day life. And to a person the ones I worked closely with were of Chinese decent, and dam_n*d proud of it.

They have dominated others while operating in a system that is corrupt from top to bottom. Can you do the math?

Edited May 20, 2010 by ferd54

[somtampet]

HUGE SECTARIAN CHASM?????

From your post,it is you who are doing this.How the hel_l do you know that farangs who seem to be pro-reds are being influenced by their issan gf/wife.Your post tries to make it clear that your gf/wife is NOT from Issan,as though its some sort of no no to love an issan lady.

This is the whole reason why there are problems in Thailand with views like you.I believe the reds have lost a lot of supporters due to this rioting in Bangkok,but let me tell you one thing,there is plenty of hatred towards bangkok thais and farangs by thai people in Chonburi,so think about that please.

Think about this.

ANOTHER ONE THAT CANT READ

THINK ABOUT THIS,AS MY POST STATED

.I believe the reds have lost a lot of supporters due to this rioting

[SomTumTiger]

They have dominated others while operating in a system that is corrupt from top to bottom. Can you do the math?

I can do some math. Here are my figures.

[Fore Man]

Some of the posters here need to calm down and really think through all that has occurred since the reds took over Bangkok in March. I concur that many TV members seem to have adopted pro-red agendas and it very may well be because they have been influenced by their Thai wives....many of whom sprang from Isaan roots and whose greater families also support the red cause. They do so because of how the reds built their base of support in Isaan and in the poorer districts of the north, creating a fabric of mistruths and slowly but inexorably beating them into an anti-government frenzy. My own spouse is not from Isaan and her northern family all consists of hard-working and moral people, but even she is beginning to see that the carefully orchestrated and putative peaceful political aims of the reds have been undermined by the other, decidedly sinister side of their strategy which believes in using broad but well-camouflaged provocative violence to create fear and sow worry amongst the Thai people...all with the grand goal of returning Thaksin and his thugs to power. In the latter regard, the reds are and will continue to do so; the extent of which nobody knows at this time. This impartial link below has been posted in another TV forum but is well worth listing again. It explains a lot and I encourage all TV readers to take a close look at it:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE13Ae01.html

Now is not the time to continue sniping at each other on this forum. It is a time to understand what has happened to Thailand and what led us to these sad days of infamy, and to hope and pray that the huge sectarian chasm that has been created does not drop all of us into the abyss.

HUGE SECTARIAN CHASM?????

From your post,it is you who are doing this.How the hel_l do you know that farangs who seem to be pro-reds are being influenced by their issan gf/wife.Your post tries to make it clear that your gf/wife is NOT from Issan,as though its some sort of no no to love an issan lady.

This is the whole reason why there are problems in Thailand with views like you.I believe the reds have lost a lot of supporters due to this rioting in Bangkok,but let me tell you one thing,there is plenty of hatred towards bangkok thais and farangs by thai people in Chonburi,so think about that please.

Please do us all a huge favor and take off your red-colored glasses; you are showing your profound ignorance.

[adgareau]

Now you go to YOU TUBE and all you see is communists taking advantage of this situation and bashing the elites. i suggest they take a long vacation to Cuba or Venezuala and learn the true meaning of communism. They may come back to Thailand and want to join the yellow shirts

[givenall]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

Some did fight till death but for what, Mr. Thaksin revenge while he is enjoying a family day with daughter in LV store

[SomTumTiger]

HUGE SECTARIAN CHASM?????

From your post,it is you who are doing this.How the hel_l do you know that farangs who seem to be pro-reds are being influenced by their issan gf/wife.Your post tries to make it clear that your gf/wife is NOT from Issan,as though its some sort of no no to love an issan lady.

This is the whole reason why there are problems in Thailand with views like you.I believe the reds have lost a lot of supporters due to this rioting in Bangkok,but let me tell you one thing,there is plenty of hatred towards bangkok thais and farangs by thai people in Chonburi,so think about that please.

Think about this.

ANOTHER ONE THAT CANT READ

THINK ABOUT THIS,AS MY POST STATED

.I believe the reds have lost a lot of supporters due to this rioting

There is a sea change happening. You'll realize it a few years down the road, I'm sure.

[somtampet]

OOOH... that word again... BKK elite. Do you even know what that means?

Bangkok is the capitol of Thailand. If they're not allowed to be "elite" (whatever the hel_l that means), WHAT.THE.F_UCK do you suggest them to be?

Instead of throwing xenophobic labels around, why don't you address the real policy issues that disturb you?

I worked for Sutachai Yoon and have been involved with other "upper class" "well educated" Sino-Thai Bangkokians. I will leave aside detailed comment on the work conditions at the Nation, because I am no doubt biased after the shocking treatment I experienced there in 1991. Suffice it to say that foreigners are only tolerated because they are a necessary evil in an English-language newspaper.

I will, however, pass along my general observations on the wealthy in BKK: Their sense of superiority and entitlement is nauseating. They play only by their own rules and are literally above the law when it comes to day-to-day life. And to a person the ones I worked closely with were of Chinese decent, and dam_n*d proud of it.

They have dominated others while operating in a system that is corrupt from top to bottom. Can you do the math?

100% AGREE

What about the farang wannabees in Bangkok too,DO you think they are getting the same.

[jonclark]

" Human Reaction towards the lost of love ones who are being murdered openly without humane justice. "

I believe the reds who have lost life with the death of their love ones and or relatives in their struggle is doing the right thing. Burning down buildings and anything that is within reach, especially government buildings.

Before anyone starts to think badly of the remaining true brave reds who did what they are doing.Ask , if your love ones , relatives and friends who died under the guns of the armies and government. What would you do, how will you seek justice for them. And if knowing, there is no justice what other actions will you take ?????

Bloop

BloopBloop aka lemon123 - According to your theory two wrongs make a right.

The people who were killed at Tak Bai - Should they destroy taksin house?? The families of soldiers gunned down while following orders, should they burn down the houses of red shirt sympathizers and protesters in revenge. The innocent people who had invested money in small clothing outlets in Center One and have now lost everything - should they come and burn your house down for implying support for the actions of the reds which burnt it down. No in all cases. Where is the justice for these people. You use the word justice but have no meaning of the word

There is no excuse for the actions of those people last night. And lets be honest 44 people were killed. Those who were looting and burning were not family members just thugs hel_l bent on creating chaos.

[cougar52]

Do not forget also that it is easily overlooked that Jatuporn, one of the main leaders, would lose his immunity come Monday, May the 24th.

And even though he surrendered with the others, he is now free because of that immunity, even the second in charge of the police would not arrest him because of his immunity when he was in the National Police Headquarters.

[dtarasin]

OOOH... that word again... BKK elite. Do you even know what that means?

Bangkok is the capitol of Thailand. If they're not allowed to be "elite" (whatever the hel_l that means), WHAT.THE.F_UCK do you suggest them to be?

Instead of throwing xenophobic labels around, why don't you address the real policy issues that disturb you?

I worked for Sutachai Yoon and have been involved with other "upper class" "well educated" Sino-Thai Bangkokians. I will leave aside detailed comment on the work conditions at the Nation, because I am no doubt biased after the shocking treatment I experienced there in 1991. Suffice it to say that foreigners are only tolerated because they are a necessary evil in an English-language newspaper.

I will, however, pass along my general observations on the wealthy in BKK: Their sense of superiority and entitlement is nauseating. They play only by their own rules and are literally above the law when it comes to day-to-day life. And to a person the ones I worked closely with were of Chinese decent, and dam_n*d proud of it.

They have dominated others while operating in a system that is corrupt from top to bottom. Can you do the math?

And how is that different from Thaksin? How is that different from the sense of superiority and entitlement that causes these red shirts to set fire to Bangkok? Do they not also play only by their own rules?

Everything you've said can be applied to any developed country in the world (especially in the US). But you don't see their populace leaving a trail of fire in their wake when things don't go the way they planned.

All I see is everyone complaining about how it's all f_ucked up and unfair for their side, but the only person I see trying to do anything about it is Abhisit.

[SomTumTiger]

Do not forget also that it is easily overlooked that Jatuporn, one of the main leaders, would lose his immunity come Monday, May the 24th.

And even though he surrendered with the others, he is now free because of that immunity, even the second in charge of the police would not arrest him because of his immunity when he was in the National Police Headquarters.

He is not free - he is being held in Hua Hin with the others, courtesy of state of emergency laws. They can hold him for 7 days, upon which time, his immunity expires, and he'll be charged with terrorism, just like the others. Don't think that big mouth isn't singing up a storm as we speak.

[AntiIdeologue]

OOOH... that word again... BKK elite. Do you even know what that means?

Bangkok is the capitol of Thailand. If they're not allowed to be "elite" (whatever the hel_l that means), WHAT.THE.F_UCK do you suggest them to be?

Instead of throwing xenophobic labels around, why don't you address the real policy issues that disturb you?

I worked for Sutachai Yoon and have been involved with other "upper class" "well educated" Sino-Thai Bangkokians. I will leave aside detailed comment on the work conditions at the Nation, because I am no doubt biased after the shocking treatment I experienced there in 1991. Suffice it to say that foreigners are only tolerated because they are a necessary evil in an English-language newspaper.

I will, however, pass along my general observations on the wealthy in BKK: Their sense of superiority and entitlement is nauseating. They play only by their own rules and are literally above the law when it comes to day-to-day life. And to a person the ones I worked closely with were of Chinese decent, and dam_n*d proud of it.

They have dominated others while operating in a system that is corrupt from top to bottom. Can you do the math?

..and I will pass along my general observation that you'd be hard-pressed to find anywhere on the planet where those looking up from the bottom didn't find the superiority and egregious sense of entitlement of the wealthy classes above them, nauseating. Hardly an insight. Base-level mathematics bro.

[Netfan]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think it is a well writen article by somebody who is well informed, unlike yourself............... Google the "jonestown massacre" and see how that guy Jones led masses of people in the wrong direction (almost a thousand followers commited suicide).............. Just as these lovely Isan folks, Ill-educated as most are, have been easily led astray. If you really think it is about Democracy -- you're naive......... If you notice that most of us back the Govt and a minority back the red-shirts----- If you know anything about Democracy, or life in general, you will know that the majority rules and wins............ It is easy to be swayed into their way of thinking when you have an ill-educated, red-shirt following thai wife.

If the poor are uneducated, why is that? Perhaps the elites who control the country should help to educate them.

You could ask Thaksin this question- he was PM for 5 years after all, with a big majority in parliament. Why didn't he improve the education system when he had a chance/ He even appointed himself education minister. Sometimes you don't have to look far for the answers, if you look at the facts.

[Crushdepth]

Is Jatuporn still demanding "no amnesty for criminals" ???

[NaiGreg]

If the poor are uneducated, why is that? Perhaps the elites who control the country should help to educate them.

Quite. Which is why Abhisit introduced free education across the entire whole school curriculum last year - a policy Thaksin never even considered.

As to other pontificators in this thread, why not put down your beer and romantic notions of class war and instead learn how to read Thai. Then you could spend time on the Thai language boards as well as the English language ones and have a better perspective on what real Thai people are actually saying and thinking.

So true!

Reading the Thai language boards is quite enlightening. I don't see any hate-filled rhetoric on the few I have perused. Would the mods allow a "translated version" of the Thai boards to be presented here? I doubt they could be seen as a competitive threat, though there may be legal issues.

[lowbo]

I guess what comes to mind and worries me more than UDD retaliations, is that perhaps the Religous Extremists of the South may look at this as an opportunity to inflict even more damage to the political landscape...

[Crushdepth]

All I see is everyone complaining about how it's all f_ucked up and unfair for their side, but the only person I see trying to do anything about it is Abhisit.

Right on. His offer of a welfare system for low income earners was the real gem in the roadmap. A great pity it was overshadowed by a rubbish debate about whether the election should be next week or 6 months from now.

[sawadeeken]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think it is a well writen article by somebody who is well informed, unlike yourself............... Google the "jonestown massacre" and see how that guy Jones led masses of people in the wrong direction (almost a thousand followers commited suicide).............. Just as these lovely Isan folks, Ill-educated as most are, have been easily led astray. If you really think it is about Democracy -- you're naive......... If you notice that most of us back the Govt and a minority back the red-shirts----- If you know anything about Democracy, or life in general, you will know that the majority rules and wins............ It is easy to be swayed into their way of thinking when you have an ill-educated, red-shirt following thai wife.

If the poor are uneducated, why is that? Perhaps the elites who control the country should help to educate them.

Did You google the 'jonestown massacre' as I suggested???? If you did you would see a comparable situation (of gullible people led astray).............. But you mention a GOOD POINT that I have also thought about -- that is that the Govt (any Govt) that instituded a Mandatory Free Education, at least 9 - preferably 12 years, for every child, would help to bring these poor folks up a lot......... But, I know many Northeastern Thais whose parents were so stupid they wouldn't let the kids attend class (even lower grades) --- in their way of thinking the kids could just learn to farm rice (good enough for me -- good enough for my kids).............

[whybother]

If the poor are uneducated, why is that? Perhaps the elites who control the country should help to educate them.

Quite. Which is why Abhisit introduced free education across the entire whole school curriculum last year - a policy Thaksin never even considered.

As to other pontificators in this thread, why not put down your beer and romantic notions of class war and instead learn how to read Thai. Then you could spend time on the Thai language boards as well as the English language ones and have a better perspective on what real Thai people are actually saying and thinking.

So true!

Reading the Thai language boards is quite enlightening. I don't see any hate-filled rhetoric on the few I have perused. Would the mods allow a "translated version" of the Thai boards to be presented here? I doubt they could be seen as a competitive threat, though there may be legal issues.

What is the general feeling on the Thai boards?

[Netfan]

OOOH... that word again... BKK elite. Do you even know what that means?

Bangkok is the capitol of Thailand. If they're not allowed to be "elite" (whatever the hel_l that means), WHAT.THE.F_UCK do you suggest them to be?

Instead of throwing xenophobic labels around, why don't you address the real policy issues that disturb you?

I worked for Sutachai Yoon and have been involved with other "upper class" "well educated" Sino-Thai Bangkokians. I will leave aside detailed comment on the work conditions at the Nation, because I am no doubt biased after the shocking treatment I experienced there in 1991. Suffice it to say that foreigners are only tolerated because they are a necessary evil in an English-language newspaper.

I will, however, pass along my general observations on the wealthy in BKK: Their sense of superiority and entitlement is nauseating. They play only by their own rules and are literally above the law when it comes to day-to-day life. And to a person the ones I worked closely with were of Chinese decent, and dam_n*d proud of it.

They have dominated others while operating in a system that is corrupt from top to bottom. Can you do the math?

100% AGREE

What about the farang wannabees in Bangkok too,DO you think they are getting the same,even though some havent got a pot to piss in.

Walk around Harvard or Yale or Cambridge. Bonn. Maybe even the Louis Vitton store in Paris. What will you see? Elite. Oh dear me. And you know what, many of them will have "elitist" attitudes- a sense of superiority and entitlement. Snobs. I don't like them either. So what? Since when is an attitude against the law? And since when does an attitude make it okay to burn someone else's business to the ground? Those people who owned shops in Center One were not elite, probably had little or no insurance. But it was the rhetoric of "get rid of the damned elite" that set up the situation that allowed the destruction of the lives of people who are far from elite, by a mob of thugs.

[whybother]

Did You google the 'jonestown massacre' as I suggested???? If you did you would see a comparable situation (of gullible people led astray).............. But you mention a GOOD POINT that I have also thought about -- that is that the Govt (any Govt) that instituded a Mandatory Free Education, at least 9 - preferably 12 years, for every child, would help to bring these poor folks up a lot......... But, I know many Northeastern Thais whose parents were so stupid they wouldn't let the kids attend class (even lower grades) --- in their way of thinking the kids could just learn to farm rice (good enough for me -- good enough for my kids).............

Abhisit has made education free up until 15 (or 18 not 100% sure) years of age.