Thai Government Accuses Reds Over Huge Weapons Cache

[willy1957]

Unarmed Reds, Amnesty International decrying the treatment of the poor innocents - BS, pure BS. Armed militants who should be treated as enemy combatants, if shown to have participated in a violent way.

The gouvernement want to justify the use of violence against the protesters.Finding weapons is easy to organise, does the gouvernment think we are stupid?The elite of Bkk did loose a lot of money and for that reasons the gouvernment did what the elite want them to do, but that is very stupid because the seed for more hate and (maybe violent)protest is planted.

[citizen33]

Have to say that I find it hard to believe the government account when it is set alongside some of the videos of the final push on the main site we have seen.

Look at these for example:

(1.35 onwards)

(1.22 onwards).

Incidentally I've also seen additional film from greater distance somewhere of this same group of men running with a couple of solders firing in their general drection (which would give another viewpoint if located). This links above show events just after the barricades were breeched. Although there is no film of protesters with guns in this sequence, I'm prepared to accept that some probably were armed. As a group though, the men in the clips look in desperate need of weapons. Their lives are at imminent risk and I tend to think most of them had nothing to lose by firing back. If there was a huge arms cache nearby, why were they so lightly armed? It couldn't have been self restraint surely.

Edited May 22, 2010 by citizen33

[Ulysses G.]

MLK was seen as terrorist in those days also now he's a hero!

He is only a "hero" because he was non-violent - he did not fire-bomb shopping centers - and the government uses him for propoganda purposes. H. Rap Brown and Huey Newton were violent and there are no holidays named for them.

Edited May 22, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[rabo]

It is very suspect that after a couple of days the government has a show for the press and other governments. Not having any press with them when they "found" this stuff (there were some willing I am sure) is just too much. The fact that a bunch of this stuff was all in the car park is also at best weird. I am not a red supporter but this smells bad. Why wasn't Pornthip w/her gt200 there when they let the people out of the temple?

I also have to think if ppl knew these things were there, they would have used them. Instead of just shooting firecrackers and bottle rockets. There were some using them yes, I understand that but when the sh*t was coming down they didn't hand stuff out or blow up the car bombs?

You are suggesting that the reds are peaceful innocent protesters because they would have definitely blown up all the car bombs for sure? This is your logic?

[rubl]

Unarmed Reds, Amnesty International decrying the treatment of the poor innocents - BS, pure BS. Armed militants who should be treated as enemy combatants, if shown to have participated in a violent way.

The gouvernement want to justify the use of violence against the protesters.Finding weapons is easy to organise, does the gouvernment think we are stupid?The elite of Bkk did loose a lot of money and for that reasons the gouvernment did what the elite want them to do, but that is very stupid because the seed for more hate and (maybe violent)protest is planted.

You maybe interested in the latest iPhone application, called iObject. You can generate negative rhetoric in nanoseconds — no facts required! GOP senators can vouch for it :-)

Edited May 22, 2010 by rubl

[JamDown]

Remember the blacks in the 50's in USA, they used a lot of violence to get their rights.

After a few years these red heroes will be seen as the USA blacks.

Think about this........

MLK was seen as terrorist in those days also now he's a hero!

This is so out of context the only kind thing I can say to you is to read and learn more about the civil rights struggle in the US. There was absolutely no heroic display by any of the "khwai daeng" leaders, quite the opposite, these leaders turned out to be the greatest cowards I have seen in a while. But their cowardice is only a result of their true conviction, this was all about the money they were paid for inciting this mayhem. No point fighting to the death when you have 100M Baht waiting for you.

Martin Luther King Jr, never once called for the burning of any town or city, he was never paid for what he did, he tirelessly worked for the civil rights of millions of Americans, not for the benefit of billionaire corrupt ex leader. His mentor for his approach was Mohatma Ghandhi who practised non-violent resistance even when the authorities were extremely violent. So please study the approach practiced by Martin Luther King Jr. and other US civil rights leaders, and if people anywhere in this country feel their civil rights are not respected by the government, use that approach. Then perhaps the leaders and participants of that protest could be considered heroes.

[genobkk]

If these weapons belonged to the red shirts why were there not more soldiers killed when they cleared the protest area?

If the men in black opened up on the army when they cleared the area everyone, even the red shirt apologists,would be saying "So they did have weapons!"

But if they didn't open up on the soldiers there would be an army of red shirt apologists ready and waiting to explain away the damming evidence.

they all ran to start fires and toook what arms they could carry that is why!!!!

[simonmiller]

It is very suspect that after a couple of days the government has a show for the press and other governments. Not having any press with them when they "found" this stuff (there were some willing I am sure) is just too much. The fact that a bunch of this stuff was all in the car park is also at best weird. I am not a red supporter but this smells bad. Why wasn't Pornthip w/her gt200 there when they let the people out of the temple?

I also have to think if ppl knew these things were there, they would have used them. Instead of just shooting firecrackers a bottle rockets.

No, if the government says it, it is absolute truth.

How dare you question it you Red shirt apologist, terrorist supporter...

I mean come on, anybody running a business here, or even who has been stopped by a traffic cop knows they never ever bend the truth for personal gain

And if it doesn't happen at the bottom why would it happen at the top

Spot on Firestar. The first victim of war is the truth. Of course (understandably?) the government will seek every means to justify its actions in clearing the protests using live rounds. [by the way, the people dishing dirt on AI, think again - Amnesty does not need to retract its statements: read their staement again - they never say that all the Reds were peaceful (but maybe we don't need to rekindle that argument)].

The sad thing is that the way this display of weapons has been produced probably damages the government's credibility again at a time when I think the general population across the country is probably right behind their actions. I'd have been more impressed by close reporting of the humane way they bussed all the protesters home to the provinces, in spite of what must have been some feelings of anger and resentment on the ground in Bangkok. Isn't it time to start healing wounds, not scratching them?

[alstaxi]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

get your head out of your ass, what do you suppose has been going on ????

[Netfan]

Remember the blacks in the 50's in USA, they used a lot of violence to get their rights.

After a few years these red heroes will be seen as the USA blacks.

Think about this........

MLK was seen as terrorist in those days also now he's a hero!

MLK had a dream, Malcolm-X was a bit more aggressive. Who is admired most and by whom?

What I am trying to say is that in some cases the old establishment has to get a wake up call

Don't think they got it yet..

We will see some more violence before there comes a dialoge...

Which you sound excited about. btw, you know zero about US history. The rally at the Lincoln Memorial was the turning point in the civil rights movement- 100% peaceful. And it was a bringing together of people, not a division, as Thaksin and his crew are trying to do. MLK earned respect for non-violence in the face of violence done to his followers, much like Gandhi. They never advocated the burning of cities. The opposite of Thaksin and his red goons. btw, Malcolm X, for all his rhetoric, underwent a big change at the end of his life, becoming closer to MLK and renouncing the hate of Elijah Muhammad. Thats why he was gunned down by the Black Muslims. The change in the US would have come without the riots. The change came through voter registration and political empowerment. The red shirts are better compared to the khmer rouge.

[senti]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Not used - the terrorists fired over 100 grenades the past 2 months. perhaps you have not been paying attention...

Not exactly a lot of dead soldiers are there ??

Either the reds were lousy marksmen or most of them were not using firearms.

Which is it ??

April 10, approx 200 army injured, 600 civilians.

Who is doing most of the shooting ??

Presumably next will be the announcement of the red's intention to use portaloos as chemical weapons..................

ph

Your life must be easy, everything is so shallow.

After 10th of April, are you really surprised that there have been almost no army casualties?

[mazeltov]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Of course its fishy.

[KMUTT]

It is very suspect that after a couple of days the government has a show for the press and other governments. Not having any press with them when they "found" this stuff (there were some willing I am sure) is just too much.

The press (international and local Thai TV news) was there on the scene when they recovered ammunition and other materials by military swimmers that had been ditched by the Reds into the pond on the temple grounds.

Two anti-government protester sit handcuffed in a Buddhist temple with materials recovered from them in downtown Bangkok, Thailand, Friday, May 21, 2010.

Washington Post

Edited May 22, 2010 by KMUTT

[mitrapaap]

It is very suspect that after a couple of days the government has a show for the press and other governments. Not having any press with them when they "found" this stuff (there were some willing I am sure) is just too much. The fact that a bunch of this stuff was all in the car park is also at best weird. I am not a red supporter but this smells bad. Why wasn't Pornthip w/her gt200 there when they let the people out of the temple?

I also have to think if ppl knew these things were there, they would have used them. Instead of just shooting firecrackers a bottle rockets.

No, if the government says it, it is absolute truth.

How dare you question it you Red shirt apologist, terrorist supporter...

I mean come on, anybody running a business here, or even who has been stopped by a traffic cop knows they never ever bend the truth for personal gain

And if it doesn't happen at the bottom why would it happen at the top

Spot on Firestar. The first victim of war is the truth. Of course (understandably?) the government will seek every means to justify its actions in clearing the protests using live rounds. [by the way, the people dishing dirt on AI, think again - Amnesty does not need to retract its statements: read their staement again - they never say that all the Reds were peaceful (but maybe we don't need to rekindle that argument)].

The sad thing is that the way this display of weapons has been produced probably damages the government's credibility again at a time when I think the general population across the country is probably right behind their actions. I'd have been more impressed by close reporting of the humane way they bussed all the protesters home to the provinces, in spite of what must have been some feelings of anger and resentment on the ground in Bangkok. Isn't it time to start healing wounds, not scratching them?

Agreed. I also wonder: with all the videos of speeches and actions from the reds... would you think the governement still needst to make up weapons and bombs to justify the actions taken? Every foreign governement official knows very well that in his own country the reds would never have been allowed to go that far.

[Netfan]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Of course its fishy.

No its not. The reds were caught sleeping. Their leader from I think KK said "we never expected it" (the crackdown). They didn't get their chance, thank god. You guys and girls have fun in your own little bizzaaro universe, the rest of us will be in the real world.

[rubl]

Agreed. ... actions taken? Every foreign governement official knows very well that in his own country the reds would never have been allowed to go that far.

Except in countries which have 'democratic' or 'people' in their official name :-)

[SPQR]

The Alliance for Democracy is fronting the same back-room leadership. Best to be even more wary of this group than the UDD coalition. There are fewer peace-lovers enjoined with them. They are more hard-left, from first looks.

The shooters are not routed. They fled, doshed their kit, and are laying low. They still serve the same cause - overthrow of the governemt. A real and apparently newly emerging threat, they have been coming together for about 12 years now.

Weapons caches were set up at several points around the original planned rally points. The failure to stay with the locations that were pre-selected was a key weakness in the reds strategy, and deprived them of their offensive battle plan "A". After april 9, the shooters re-grouped to discuss the shocking realization that were not staged in a way that supported their planning. That night, as teams went out to move weapons, the militray observed and reported some of these movements, and this alarming series of reports was partly responsible for the violence of April 10, these actions were misconstrued as a mobilization for a heavy assault by reds on the police.

From that point onward, the police were withdrawn and the army was postured more seriously, understanding how well-armed the reds really were.

Those of you who kept saying the reds are not armed, and that are now saying the weapons are propaganda:

You are a ridiculous bunch of know-nothing poo-talkers. The movement to overthrow is very very real.

We farangs need to stay out of these politics. Thai people do not share all of our values. They do not make choices like we westerners. And definitely not like you red-loving westernerds.

The help our governments provided in intelligence and military training and equipment was timely and very good.

It will continue to be so. Any duly elected government in the kingdom can count on our unconditional support, regardless of their political leanings. Any faction that seeks to overthrow can count on our sincere efforts to help stop them.

Reconciliation and ACCOMODATION FOR ALL SIDES, now underway, is the solution. It is supported by everyone who loves the country, no matter what their party loyalty. Trying to leave one bunch out in the cold, however completely guilty they may be, just is not the Thai way. They will come to an arrangement that provides for the needs of all parties, being just some little bit wiser than the average non-buddhist, on the knowledge that ONLY this kind of accomodation can acheive a durable peace.

Choke Dee, Kon Kon Thai.

[mrsouza]

Ass! Airport seizure didnt involve any M-79's or RPG's! Nobody got hurt. Is that an act of terroism?

Well, once you sobered up you might want to read the definition of a terrorist act. Like your tag line and location, revealing.

[rabo]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Not used - the terrorists fired over 100 grenades the past 2 months. perhaps you have not been paying attention...

Not exactly a lot of dead soldiers are there ??

Either the reds were lousy marksmen or most of them were not using firearms.

Which is it ??

April 10, approx 200 army injured, 600 civilians.

Who is doing most of the shooting ??

Presumably next will be the announcement of the red's intention to use portaloos as chemical weapons..................

ph

You badly defeat your own reasoning.

THe question is: Did the Army have to face protesters that possessed, and willing to use weapons?

On April 10 230 soldiers were injured, about 100 from gun shot wounds. The commanders were assassinated.

Answer: Yes. Period.

This is not a contest to see who can shoot more of the other side. It is ludicrous to say it was unfair because the Army had more or better weapons. The Army's job was to enforce the law.

The protesters should not be armed, they should not kill anyone. In that case the Army could have enforced the law without the use of deadly force.

[block2]

---snip snip snip---

You "khwai daeng" supporters and apologists should collectively have your ass**s kicked, and kicked hard. You should have your meager assets seized to help pay for the damage the "khwai daeng" caused in Bangkok. Also, if I ever find that bitch Khun Prateep Ungsongtham, I would personally like to break her jaw for inciting so many people to riot in the Rama IV Road area, I hold her personally responsible for the damage on Rama IV Road and for causing so much terror to people in the Klong Toei area.

I had no real opinions one way or the other regarding Thai politics prior to this whole disgusting display by the "khwai daeng", but I do hope the Thai PM Abhisit Vejjajiva continues to play a major role in SE Asian politics. This man has demonstrated the patience of "Job", he allowed the "khwai daeng" to hang themselves with their own rhetoric, it seems he rejected many options presented to him out of concern for all Thai citizens, even the 'khwai daeng". He has been tested like no other leader in the region and I think he has come out of this with more respect worldwide. Imagine trying to make an Oxford education seem like a liability, Thailand should be lucky they have such an intelligent individual as their PM. Now if the "khwai daeng" supporters in government could just use his example and show concern for all Thai citizens, instead of the unreasonable and ludicrous desires of one Thai / Montenegrin family, this country could actually prosper and benefit all its citizens.

100% yes. Good post.

Best post I've seen for some time.

May I add that I feel terrible for all the trouble that has been caused in your area as well as the rest of Bangkok.

It's heart-warming to see how people are now picking up their lives and working together to clean up everything whilst those red idiots are nowhere to be found. That really shows that there is good people in Thailand, those people make Thailand so great!

I totally agree with your view on Abhisit.

One day in the future, the people of Thailand will look back and finally understand what a great leader he was at this most difficult period in Thai history.

Red Idiots..nowhere to be found....PMSL...they are the majority..thats why the government wont give them the vote...they'll be back...and let's not forget Abishit give the orders for the army to turn their guns on their own..women and children included..he is just as guilty as the red shirt leaders if not more...and going back to the original post..Government accuses reds over huge weapons cache..i didn't see no fireworks, bamboo sticks or catapults in that cache..did you ?...at end of the day if the reds did have that cache..they would of used it...that makes me think that they didn't.....everyone on here seems to think it is over....this is just the begining.

[KMUTT]

This stuff was so hard to find it took them 3 days to get it out on the TV and the news? There have been hundreds of reporters around and around the site.

They've actually been reporting it since they first took over the Red main site 3 days ago:

Troops reclaim Ratchaprasong rally site

BANGKOK, 19 May 2010 (NNT) — CRES Spokesperson, Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd announced in a televised broadcast at 14.00 hrs that the troops have reclaimed Ratchaprosong Intersection, the main rally site of the anti-government demonstrators of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD).

The officers found massive weapon stockpile at the site, especially a depot of M79 grenade launchers being used against state officers.

The radical demonstrators this morning have illegally intruded and set the fire at government agencies and civilians’ households.

[rubl]

Ass! Airport seizure didnt involve any M-79's or RPG's! Nobody got hurt. Is that an act of terroism?

Well, once you sobered up you might want to read the definition of a terrorist act. Like your tag line and location, revealing.

Terrorist: a person who uses or favours violent and intimidating methods of coercing a government or community.

Concise Oxford Dictionary, 8th ed. 1990

[mazeltov]

If the army could have moved in regardless of consequences, it would have been 1 -2 troops injured, protesters either dead or nearly so. In the 5 days cleanup of Rachaprasong 'only' 54 dead. Again a real crachdown would have fill mass-graves.

The fact that we lots of wounded troops and a few dead just symbolizes the restraint with which the army moved in.

<deleted>? only 54 dead and only hundreds injured, must have been are real clean cleanup and not a massacre - what a logic.

What next? A nomination for the Nobel peace prize?

[Tony121]

It is very suspect that after a couple of days the government has a show for the press and other governments. Not having any press with them when they "found" this stuff (there were some willing I am sure) is just too much. The fact that a bunch of this stuff was all in the car park is also at best weird. I am not a red supporter but this smells bad. Why wasn't Pornthip w/her gt200 there when they let the people out of the temple?

I also have to think if ppl knew these things were there, they would have used them. Instead of just shooting firecrackers a bottle rockets.

No, if the government says it, it is absolute truth.

How dare you question it you Red shirt apologist, terrorist supporter...

I mean come on, anybody running a business here, or even who has been stopped by a traffic cop knows they never ever bend the truth for personal gain

And if it doesn't happen at the bottom why would it happen at the top

Spot on Firestar. The first victim of war is the truth. Of course (understandably?) the government will seek every means to justify its actions in clearing the protests using live rounds. [by the way, the people dishing dirt on AI, think again - Amnesty does not need to retract its statements: read their staement again - they never say that all the Reds were peaceful (but maybe we don't need to rekindle that argument)].

The sad thing is that the way this display of weapons has been produced probably damages the government's credibility again at a time when I think the general population across the country is probably right behind their actions. I'd have been more impressed by close reporting of the humane way they bussed all the protesters home to the provinces, in spite of what must have been some feelings of anger and resentment on the ground in Bangkok. Isn't it time to start healing wounds, not scratching them?

There is only about twenty guns in that picture its hardly a lot, The video of the soldiers in there truck being pulled out and beaten had there guns taken. im surprised they didn't find more

[dttk0009]

If the army could have moved in regardless of consequences, it would have been 1 -2 troops injured, protesters either dead or nearly so. In the 5 days cleanup of Rachaprasong 'only' 54 dead. Again a real crachdown would have fill mass-graves.

The fact that we lots of wounded troops and a few dead just symbolizes the restraint with which the army moved in.

<deleted>? only 54 dead and only hundreds injured, must have been are real clean cleanup and not a massacre - what a logic.

What next? A nomination for the Nobel peace prize?

So what do you think would have been the best course of action?

[KMUTT]

I find it convenient that all these weapons of mass destruction were found.

Has anyone wondered why they were not used?

Smells a bit fishy.

Did you arrive yesterday. They have been grenading and bombing and shooting for ages. Al Jazeera called em on it ages ago. There have been you tubes of their armed groups. Of course they used some. Luckily they were broken up before they could use more.

There really is no need to write blatant lies that have been shown to be demonstrably wrong on multiple occasions.

Now where is that piece on Amsterdam using internet to spread a meme for his clients

It really is remarkable that so many apparently haven't been keeping up with the news here to even attempt to dispute what has been known for quite some time by anyone paying attention.

Amsterdam must have quite a "helper list."

[Netfan]

If the army could have moved in regardless of consequences, it would have been 1 -2 troops injured, protesters either dead or nearly so. In the 5 days cleanup of Rachaprasong 'only' 54 dead. Again a real crachdown would have fill mass-graves.

The fact that we lots of wounded troops and a few dead just symbolizes the restraint with which the army moved in.

<deleted>? only 54 dead and only hundreds injured, must have been are real clean cleanup and not a massacre - what a logic.

What next? A nomination for the Nobel peace prize?

nah, that will go to Thaksin, Arisman, Nuttawut, etc. I mean you compare them to MLK, Aung Su Kyi and Nelson Mandela, right?

(come on, take the bait.....take the bait)

[SiamRose]

After 10th of April, are you really surprised that there have been almost no army casualties?

If the reds really did have, car bombs, C4 high explosives, M60 machine guns, as the government claims, then yes it is surprising.

[dttk0009]

After 10th of April, are you really surprised that there have been almost no army casualties?

If the reds really did have, car bombs, C4 high explosives, M60 machine guns, as the government claims, then yes it is surprising.

You are, naturally, assuming that the red shirts only targeted soldiers and not innocent bystanders, medics and reporters, right?

[bf2002]

Have you forgotten how this whole cycle started with a coup and the colored shirts that showed this group of other colored shirts the way?

It's called an escalation. I saw this coming when the yellows didn't know when to shut up, realize they had won, and not push a dog into a corner. It was obvious Thaksin was holding back but that if they pushed him too far, he or his side would fight back. What do you think happens when someone has nothing to lose?

Like the Western investors and the Western powers smart enough to not take sides, you should be just wishing it ends with either an election or the army finally taking over....once they stabilize they can try for the 3rd or 4th or Nth time to prove they are not ready for democracy. Personally, I prefer if the army took over and stayed in control for a while, until they all settle down. That's what had to happen for a very very long time the last time they had a much less violent chain of events ---- it's what their Victory Monument really marks....not a victory for democracy but really a testament to how they can't handle democracy.

Come on, if the West really sided with this current govt don't you think they would have made a real effort to arrest Thaksin already? They are not doing anything (serious) because everyone outside the country knows it is all political on both sides, the courts are corrupt, the police are corrupt, and the army is corrupt. In fact, a huge number of the foreigners in country are married or in relationships with women who were from a "corrupt profession".

Figure out it's just about power and money, and stop talking like this has anything to do with what is legal or that any of them are not causing what happened. They are burning THEIR COUNTRY, not yours.

Edited May 22, 2010 by bf2002