Suicide

[evanson]

I know most 'religions' take a dim view of one checking oneself out, but every time the names of a couple arise in my conversations with Thais, they're always anxious to point out that one of them went upstairs and the other (and they point when they say this) down, and so they would not be reunited anyway.

The couple were married for 30 years and when one died the other took his own life.

I find it odd that such a gentle religion/philosophy should be so condemnatory. Is this just a bastardised (Thai Buddhism mixed with Animism and a sprinkling of Catholicism)? And does this mix, if it exists, account for the Thais silly obsession with bloody 'phi' (ghosts). And what has that to do with Buddhism?

[Xangsamhua]

Can I suggest that "idealized" Buddhism (and remember, the Buddha and his disciples were not "Buddhists") would not countenance a simplistic Heaven or hel_l dichotomy for the after-life. However, actual and scriptural Buddhism envisages various levels of (non-permanent) heaven and hel_l to which one might be destined for some amount of time on the basis of one's karma. Of course this may all be figurative, mythic in the sense that stories about the heavens and hells and their occupants point to ultimate, but really unknown possibilities in a way people at a certain stage of cultural development can grasp.

Of course, in Thailand it's all mixed up with ghosts and demons and the whole atlas and chorus of mythic entities, but that's normal for popular religion at a certain point of development.

My understanding is that the Buddha did not approve of suicide except in the case of one of his disciples who had a terminal illness and was in considerable pain. The Buddha argued that this man was already an arahant and destined for nirvana anyway. (I'm sorry I can't find the source.) In other cases the Buddha regarded suicide as inspired by strong attachment and hence not justified.

Thich Nhat Hanh has argued that self-immolation, as performed by a Vietnamese monk and nun during the Vietnam War, where it is inspired by compassion for others, does not count as suicide. These are rare occasions, but there is a tradition of self-immolation for dharmic purposes in Mahayana Buddhism in India. (See Wikipedia: Self-immolation)

[Brucenkhamen]

I find it odd that such a gentle religion/philosophy should be so condemnatory. Is this just a bastardised (Thai Buddhism mixed with Animism and a sprinkling of Catholicism)? And does this mix, if it exists, account for the Thais silly obsession with bloody 'phi' (ghosts).

Pretty much.

And what has that to do with Buddhism? i])

Nothing. From a Buddhist perspective I find the belief that a couple would be reunited in a future life is missing the point and probably arises out of a naive sunday schoolism.

[bina]

thais (like hubby) often talk about 'chat nee, chat naa' (this life, next life) and 'wassana' (destiny? fate?) so the meeting again in a future life would be a thai buddhist way of looking at it... but probaly not a technically theravada buddhist way, but then again thai buddhism is a very definate mix 'chorus and and atlas' of beliefs. but not sunday schoolism as i interpret that as strictly christian although i dont really know what christians beleive about suicide , however, jews certainly dont consider it as something allowable. and there is no 'next life' for someone who is jewish and kills himself.

bina

israel

[evanson]

I remember an episode from that tv series Kung <deleted> where David Carradine (Grasshopper ...) was idling toward a bridge when he stopped to observe someone about to jump off. The guy spotted him GH, and asked why the heartless bastard hadn't tried to stop him. GH replied that 'it was his life and therefore his to take'. Well Grasshopper was Buddhist wasn't he?

[camerata]

The screenplay of Kung <deleted> often skillfully twisted the Buddha's teachings into justifications for Grasshopper to beat the shit out of someone or do something else that a genuine Buddhist would not do. Good fun back in the 70s, though.