Unmasked: Thailand's Men In Black

[leeno]

Absent Khattiya's leadership, discipline inside the red fortress was on the decline. Alcohol flowed freely, fueling tempers and fist-fights.

Earlier in the day a Ronin fighter fired an Israeli-made TAR-21 assault rifle, seized from the army in April, at an army helicopter overhead

TAR-21 assault rifle

[Slip]

^^Indeed- if Laopo is on the fence, then I'm a Welshman.

[IMA_FARANG]

Unless your brain has been damaged by a constant barrage of Reds propaganda, or you are intentionally dead in the eyes and ears so you can't hear or see anything but what you want to, you have to acknowledge that there were a group of hard core militants, probably with military training at least, in the ranks of the Reds among those camped in Bangkok during the recent disturbances. But I'm still not sure about this story.

Why would they reveal themselves to a reporter you ask? Well, for the same reasons other criminals talk about their crimes; because they like to brag and boast about what they have done. So I'm not in disbelief that they would take the chance to boast a bit to a reporter. After all, they are proud of what they did...and boasting to a reporter to inflate their own ego is exactly what I would expect from such a group.

But one of the things the reporter said that I noticed, which made me somewhat suspicious was that the reporter said...."within 10 minutes they had loaded their weapons and ammunition"...they pulled their weapons from concealment under a plastic tarp, then loaded ammo magazines with ammo. If you are hiding a M-16 under a plastic tarp....then why no hide lalready loaded magazines also? Surely if a government soldier managed to get into your hideout, and found a M-16 rifle there....then what's the point of having ammunition hidden somewhere else. If you are armed with M-16's, and need to respond immeadiately, then why have your bullets stored somewhere else from your rifles? Ten minutes to get the ammo and load it is a long time in an emergency...if you need the weapons immeadiately.

Maybe I'm just being to picky about that.

One thing I'm sure of however is that there were those with military grade weapons, and miliary training using those weapons in Bangkok.

For all its worth, during the Red Shirts demonstrations and their occupations of government buildings....more than once a reporter took fleeting pictures of black clad gunmen with weapons. I myself saw a couple of pictures wth black clad men carrying weapons running into the shadows and buildings to hide when a reporter took a picture of the "peaceful" Red Shirt protests.

[lannarebirth]

Dramatic headline grabbing, no new detail padded out with the usual dialogue......any person with an imagination could easily have penned that article

er.....

and here is some video evidence to it

Between 0:11 - 0:19 you can see a person in civilian clothes, t-shirt and shorts, armed with a rifle and probably also shooting. Similar to the clips with a sighting of one of the 'terrorists'. But the problem here is that he is together with regular army troops, soldiers in combat gear, Abhisits security forces.

I doubt if even one person on the face of this eath is surprised by the linkages in this article, including your good self . Post what you like but know you are on the side that values life least, has a "moral" agenda only for pay and is the most arbitratary of all in selecting the death of those that suit their purpose one day and not the next. If you love a red shirt, discuss with them how they might make themselves more attractive rather than repulsive, which is how most see them, including a significant number who used to describe themselves as redshirts.

[mikehock]

^^Indeed- if Laopo is on the fence, then I'm a Welshman.

North or South Wales,and why are you telling us this ? :D

[Democrat]

men in black

some of their arsenal

Leeno you posted some youtube stuff also one with a tar rifle. What is this supposed to mean. I dont get what you are trying to picture as you have not made any comments. Could you explain please.

Was it one of these people that wrote about the taxi drivers telling him that the black shirts were from cambodia?

[Democrat]

Unless your brain has been damaged by a constant barrage of Reds propaganda, or you are intentionally dead in the eyes and ears so you can't hear or see anything but what you want to, you have to acknowledge that there were a group of hard core militants, probably with military training at least, in the ranks of the Reds among those camped in Bangkok during the recent disturbances. But I'm still not sure about this story.

Why would they reveal themselves to a reporter you ask? Well, for the same reasons other criminals talk about their crimes; because they like to brag and boast about what they have done. So I'm not in disbelief that they would take the chance to boast a bit to a reporter. After all, they are proud of what they did...and boasting to a reporter to inflate their own ego is exactly what I would expect from such a group.

But one of the things the reporter said that I noticed, which made me somewhat suspicious was that the reporter said...."within 10 minutes they had loaded their weapons and ammunition"...they pulled their weapons from concealment under a plastic tarp, then loaded ammo magazines with ammo. If you are hiding a M-16 under a plastic tarp....then why no hide lalready loaded magazines also? Surely if a government soldier managed to get into your hideout, and found a M-16 rifle there....then what's the point of having ammunition hidden somewhere else. If you are armed with M-16's, and need to respond immeadiately, then why have your bullets stored somewhere else from your rifles? Ten minutes to get the ammo and load it is a long time in an emergency...if you need the weapons immeadiately.

Maybe I'm just being to picky about that.

One thing I'm sure of however is that there were those with military grade weapons, and miliary training using those weapons in Bangkok.

For all its worth, during the Red Shirts demonstrations and their occupations of government buildings....more than once a reporter took fleeting pictures of black clad gunmen with weapons. I myself saw a couple of pictures wth black clad men carrying weapons running into the shadows and buildings to hide when a reporter took a picture of the "peaceful" Red Shirt protests.

They were drinking in between, otherwise they would have had their equipment ready in no longer than 2 to 3 minutes.

[noahvail]

They kept the weapons and ammo separate so the little kids in the camps couldn't hurt themselves?

[473geo]

So tell me who is questioning the black shirts exist? So why all the repetitive information that proves what everybody knows..........possibly a little bit of misinterpretation on your part Gentlemen (nothing new there).......the article reports no detail that could not have been picked up without actually even being there, there were rogue elements.......it unmasks nobody......to 'unmask' they should have named the new person in charge...after all they claim they spoke to him!!!!

But no unmasking has taken place Gentlemen........attention grabbing headlining

[rogera]

Hi all,

I am trying to compile a library of U-Tube videos of all the redshirt and Thaksin speeches mae during the unrest over the last seven weeks. Can anyone link me to these sites?

many thanks

[Hawk]

The article is a very nice example of imagination running wild. A great piece of fantasy writing.

And I suppose if someone said that pigs can fly, you all would believe that as well.

[473geo]

The article is a very nice example of imagination running wild. A great piece of fantasy writing.

And I suppose if someone said that pigs can fly, you all would believe that as well.

You don't happen to have a picture of a black pig?.....that would clinch it......

[craigt3365]

It's a well know fact the army is split. Part supporting the current gov and part supporting the reds. Khattiya is proof enough of this. I was taking with a fairly successful Thai business man the day after the first killings occurred (April 22?). He lowered his voice, even though we were in my house, and said "there are 2 armies." He didn't say any more.

I am sure the government knows exactly what is going on, but with all the propaganda from both sides, it's hard for us on the outside to get things straight. Especially all the spewing the UDD leaders do!

My favorite picture is the one with burned out Central World in the background and the large red banner saying something about peaceful protests....right...who's propaganda is worse? Not hard to figure out.

edit: I do like this editorial:

Edited May 30, 2010 by webfact
link to Bangkok Post removed //Admin

[Publicus]

I didn't read the article yet but for the Elite- and Yellow apologists amongst the members ( ) I have to point out that Asia Times Online is owned by Sondhi Limthongkhul (PAD co-founder) the once VERY-CLOSE buddy friend of Thaksin.

Seen in this light it is not particularly strange that "news" brought by ATO will never be pro-Red and never be anti-Yellow.

Note: I write this, standing in the middle, neither being Red nor Yellow.

I am pro Thai People.

LaoPo

Are you sure? I thought that Sondhi dissolved all connections to Asia Times when the paper was put out of print in 1997 during the financial crisis. Two years later the former writers and editors banded together to form Asia Times Online, a non-print publication 'By westerners, for westerners'.

Not to mention that the reporters were NOT in the employ of ATO --- (they are freelancers) ---- They also have a bit of credibility since they were posting Youtubes that were taken from behind red lines. Mixing right in with the red shirt guards.

Exactly, which is the likely reason the Red paramilitary gave the journalists access. Their report was pretty straightforward, their pov unsympathetic to the militants they spent time with while also appreciating the overall situation. The two freelancers had perspective going in, kept it while there, and produced a report that is detailed, revealing, informative. And as has been pointed out, it hardly strikes any of us as some sort of startling expose'. They did a good job by any standard.

[YouYouYou]

Well, sounds like a scary story, story underlined for emphasis as this can only be take as a story and not a factual account. There is no 'unmasking' or factual evidence and as some posters have pointed out already, it could just be a creative essay or plain propaganda.

I am also not trying to discredit the writers of this story, but these writers must also accept that even if their story is true, it would certainly be open to the aforesaid criticism within this thread; it is in a word 'unsubstantiated' and cannot be considered 'concrete' by just stating at the beginning 'they would kill us', sorry it may be genuine but as a journalist piece, this does not make it exempt from doubt.

"Do you know who is in charge here?" (from the article) .... err, mmm .... said Mr Sheen up river to the crazed looking guy on the banks of the bridge being continually blown up ...err Apocolypse Now? sry, maybe its just a conincidence.

[jdinasia]

Well, sounds like a scary story, story underlined for emphasis as this can only be take as a story and not a factual account. There is no 'unmasking' or factual evidence and as some posters have pointed out already, it could just be a creative essay or plain propaganda.

I am also not trying to discredit the writers of this story, but these writers must also accept that even if their story is true, it would certainly be open to the aforesaid criticism within this thread; it is in a word 'unsubstantiated' and cannot be considered 'concrete' by just stating at the beginning 'they would kill us', sorry it may be genuine but as a journalist piece, this does not make it exempt from doubt.

"Do you know who is in charge here?" (from the article) .... err, mmm .... said Mr Sheen up river to the crazed looking guy on the banks of the bridge being continually blown up ...err Apocolypse Now? sry, maybe its just a conincidence.

I agree ----

They have only their own credibility to go on. The only thing that suggests credibility is the author's youtube and blog posts that do show him mixing in with the red shirt guards. It becoes less of a stretch to see them meeting and getting to know the black shirts.

Did they?

Who knows but even the reds are tending to say "this isn't telling us anything we didn;t know"

[leeno]

Absent Khattiya's leadership, discipline inside the red fortress was on the decline. Alcohol flowed freely, fueling tempers and fist-fights.

Earlier in the day a Ronin fighter fired an Israeli-made TAR-21 assault rifle, seized from the army in April, at an army helicopter overhead

TAR-21 assault rifle

Leeno you posted some youtube stuff also one with a tar rifle. What is this supposed to mean. I dont get what you are trying to picture as you have not made any comments. Could you explain please.

To show that the firepower of the black shirts/red shirts went quite beyond slingshots that some people apparently think was the extent of their arsenal.

[andrewbkk]

Unless your brain has been damaged by a constant barrage of Reds propaganda, or you are intentionally dead in the eyes and ears so you can't hear or see anything but what you want to, you have to acknowledge that there were a group of hard core militants, probably with military training at least, in the ranks of the Reds among those camped in Bangkok during the recent disturbances. But I'm still not sure about this story.

Why would they reveal themselves to a reporter you ask? Well, for the same reasons other criminals talk about their crimes; because they like to brag and boast about what they have done. So I'm not in disbelief that they would take the chance to boast a bit to a reporter. After all, they are proud of what they did...and boasting to a reporter to inflate their own ego is exactly what I would expect from such a group.

But one of the things the reporter said that I noticed, which made me somewhat suspicious was that the reporter said...."within 10 minutes they had loaded their weapons and ammunition"...they pulled their weapons from concealment under a plastic tarp, then loaded ammo magazines with ammo. If you are hiding a M-16 under a plastic tarp....then why no hide lalready loaded magazines also? Surely if a government soldier managed to get into your hideout, and found a M-16 rifle there....then what's the point of having ammunition hidden somewhere else. If you are armed with M-16's, and need to respond immeadiately, then why have your bullets stored somewhere else from your rifles? Ten minutes to get the ammo and load it is a long time in an emergency...if you need the weapons immeadiately.

Maybe I'm just being to picky about that.

One thing I'm sure of however is that there were those with military grade weapons, and miliary training using those weapons in Bangkok.

For all its worth, during the Red Shirts demonstrations and their occupations of government buildings....more than once a reporter took fleeting pictures of black clad gunmen with weapons. I myself saw a couple of pictures wth black clad men carrying weapons running into the shadows and buildings to hide when a reporter took a picture of the "peaceful" Red Shirt protests.

Yep, we all know the black shirts were out there, and we all know this article is pure garbage.

[Publicus]

It's a well know fact the army is split. Part supporting the current gov and part supporting the reds. Khattiya is proof enough of this. I was taking with a fairly successful Thai business man the day after the first killings occurred (April 22?). He lowered his voice, even though we were in my house, and said "there are 2 armies." He didn't say any more.

I am sure the government knows exactly what is going on, but with all the propaganda from both sides, it's hard for us on the outside to get things straight. Especially all the spewing the UDD leaders do!

My favorite picture is the one with burned out Central World in the background and the large red banner saying something about peaceful protests....right...who's propaganda is worse? Not hard to figure out.

edit: I do like this editorial:

link removed //Admin

For everyone's information, the link is good and interesting ------however, it doesn't take us to an "editorial." 

It takes us to a column written by an individual writer at the newspaper, a signed column with a "By-line" -----By Thirasant Mann, an individual writer at the paper.

An "editorial" is an unsigned institutional piece written anonymously by a member of the Editorial Board after the daily discussion by the board as to "editorials" Board members will write on that day to speak for the newspaper as an institution of society and in the particular community.

It's common for people to miss the distinction, but it's an important one because the By-line columnist expresses his/her individual views, while an editorial is the point of view of the journal as expressed by its executives who are the people authorized by the paper to state its views on issues of public policy and/or interest.

Just trying to be helpful concerning important terminology and journalism jargon.  

[longway]

Google the journalists who penned the article, they seem pretty legit and objective.

Eg.

Oliver Serbil photo journalism with Karen hillstribe

SMH article on army snipers

The Red Shirts are about 200 metres up the road. They pop out of the side street and hurl one of their primitive improvised devices or launch one of their homemade rockets (fire crackers) that explode far short of the bunker I am in. I can't help thinking that the army is replying with heavy-handed and disproportionate force. But then I hear the sickening whirl of incoming high-velocity bullets, coming close to the bunker, followed by the thump of M79 grenades.

Another interesting link I came across. Corroborates the OP link.

Edited May 29, 2010 by longway

[babykyo]

These were the secretive and heavily armed agent provocateurs whose connections, by their own admission, run to the top of the UDD, also known as the red shirts.(By Kenneth Todd Ruiz and Olivier Sarbil) These are the ones who made the red (Black).

[LaoPo]

I didn't read the article yet but for the Elite- and Yellow apologists amongst the members ( ) I have to point out that Asia Times Online is owned by Sondhi Limthongkhul (PAD co-founder) the once VERY-CLOSE buddy friend of Thaksin.

Seen in this light it is not particularly strange that "news" brought by ATO will never be pro-Red and never be anti-Yellow.

Note: I write this, standing in the middle, neither being Red nor Yellow.

I am pro Thai People.

LaoPo

Are you sure? I thought that Sondhi dissolved all connections to Asia Times when the paper was put out of print in 1997 during the financial crisis. Two years later the former writers and editors banded together to form Asia Times Online, a non-print publication 'By westerners, for westerners'.

Cover up. Sondhi is a master in covering things up.

If you follow the leads you will end up in the Caribbean but the Postbox Lawyers' Office won't give you the shareholders names of course.

In fact it's a Hong Kong registered company and why on earth would a HK company move it's share to some obscure Caribbean island? Why..?

I wrote a detailed post about ATO not so long ago; I will try to look it up.

But, in fact it's not so important. There will always be pro & anti Red Media and pro and anti Yellow Media in Thailand.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

There are two keys factors arising from this article:

Firstly for most of the time the red apologists were denying day after day that the blackshirts were a part of the red occupation in Bangkok.

I didn't read the article yet but for the Elite- and Yellow apologists amongst the members ( ) I have to point out that Asia Times Online is owned by Sondhi Limthongkhul (PAD co-founder) the once VERY-CLOSE buddy friend of Thaksin.

Seen in this light it is not particularly strange that "news" brought by ATO will never be pro-Red and never be anti-Yellow.

Note: I write this, standing in the middle, neither being Red nor Yellow.

I am pro Thai People.

LaoPo

As red as red can be.

Despite scuttling into the shadows.

I you wish to put a sticker on someone's forehead...you might want to have a look in the mirror and put one on your own?

Your pointing finger doesn't hurt; au contraire; I know who I am and where I stand

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

There are two keys factors arising from this article:

Firstly for most of the time the red apologists were denying day after day that the blackshirts were a part of the red occupation in Bangkok.

I didn't read the article yet but for the Elite- and Yellow apologists amongst the members ( ) I have to point out that Asia Times Online is owned by Sondhi Limthongkhul (PAD co-founder) the once VERY-CLOSE buddy friend of Thaksin.

Seen in this light it is not particularly strange that "news" brought by ATO will never be pro-Red and never be anti-Yellow.

Note: I write this, standing in the middle, neither being Red nor Yellow.

I am pro Thai People.

LaoPo

As red as red can be.

Despite scuttling into the shadows.

He has a habit of claiming to be neutral (on other issues) when his posts strongly suggest otherwise.

I realize that it is sometimes difficult for others to know where I stand due to my non-native English writing efforts.

I sincerely apologize for that but I reassure you that I'm standing on my own feet and refuse to run with the majority of lemmings and jump off the cliff regardless that others wish to do so.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

I didn't read the article yet but for the Elite- and Yellow apologists amongst the members ( ) I have to point out that Asia Times Online is owned by Sondhi Limthongkhul (PAD co-founder) the once VERY-CLOSE buddy friend of Thaksin.

Seen in this light it is not particularly strange that "news" brought by ATO will never be pro-Red and never be anti-Yellow.

Note: I write this, standing in the middle, neither being Red nor Yellow.

I am pro Thai People.

LaoPo

Are you sure? I thought that Sondhi dissolved all connections to Asia Times when the paper was put out of print in 1997 during the financial crisis. Two years later the former writers and editors banded together to form Asia Times Online, a non-print publication 'By westerners, for westerners'.

I already answered you, a few posts back, but have a look here:

From: The New York Times:

"One of the most prominent of the regional publications is Asia Times Online, the Internet version of a newspaper of the same name that closed after the Asian financial crisis of 1997-1998. Asia Times is owned by Sondhi Limthongkul, the publisher of ThaiDay, an English-language supplement distributed with the International Herald Tribune in its Thailand editions.

"We're now bolstering East Asian coverage and have a view to filling the vacuum left by the death of some traditional media in the region," said Shawn Crispin, Southeast Asia editor at Asia Times."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/28/business...29.1835270.html

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

I didn't read the article yet but for the Elite- and Yellow apologists amongst the members ( ) I have to point out that Asia Times Online is owned by Sondhi Limthongkhul (PAD co-founder) the once VERY-CLOSE buddy friend of Thaksin.

Seen in this light it is not particularly strange that "news" brought by ATO will never be pro-Red and never be anti-Yellow.

Note: I write this, standing in the middle, neither being Red nor Yellow.

I am pro Thai People.

LaoPo

Are you sure? I thought that Sondhi dissolved all connections to Asia Times when the paper was put out of print in 1997 during the financial crisis. Two years later the former writers and editors banded together to form Asia Times Online, a non-print publication 'By westerners, for westerners'.

I wrote a detailed post about ATO not so long ago; I will try to look it up.

LaoPo

This, and following posts, written about Sondhi Limthongkul and his Asia Times Online:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Pm-Abhisit-N...24#entry3529424

LaoPo

[Ulysses G.]

Reckless shooting by army officials during the crackdown on Red Shirt demonstrators

Sat, 22/05/2010 - 16:53

Pipob Udomittipong

/link removed //Admin

What kind of a wacko blog is this? The other stories on the link are even nuttier than this one. Try finding an article from a credible source.

Edited May 30, 2010 by webfact

[Ulysses G.]

I realize that it is sometimes difficult for others to know where I stand due to my non-native English writing efforts.

I suspect that the confusion has more to do with a lack of candor than English language skills.

[LaoPo]

I realize that it is sometimes difficult for others to know where I stand due to my non-native English writing efforts.

I suspect that the confusion has more to do with a lack of candor than English language skills.

It could be the difference in culture UG...could be

We're not all alike and that's a good thing; if we would be it would be a dull world; we would all look like the same lemmings, jumping off the same nasty cliff

LaoPo

[mazeltov]

I already answered you, a few posts back, but have a look here:

From: The New York Times:

"One of the most prominent of the regional publications is Asia Times Online, the Internet version of a newspaper of the same name that closed after the Asian financial crisis of 1997-1998. Asia Times is owned by Sondhi Limthongkul, the publisher of ThaiDay, an English-language supplement distributed with the International Herald Tribune in its Thailand editions.

"We're now bolstering East Asian coverage and have a view to filling the vacuum left by the death of some traditional media in the region," said Shawn Crispin, Southeast Asia editor at Asia Times."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/28/business...29.1835270.html

LaoPo

Bangkok Pundit has a nice piece about Asia Times Onine, expose how they work have a closer look at one of their sources in two recent articles.

Who is Therdpoum Chaidee?

Asia Times Online introduced Therdpoum as a former communist and colleague of key protest leaders, says .... and a former member of parliament under Thaksin's original Thai Rak Thai party, says ... and he has a lot to say.

The article was posted and quoted at this board and celebrate as excellent and impressive by the usual thaksin haters and yellow ultra right-wing extremist propaganda meisters.

And with that background he is a credible source to give us some insight views on the UDD movement, the reader might think. former comrade, former party member now probably just a senior citizen.

But there some background information about Therdpoum that Asia Times Online keep quiet about and does not mention.

Therdpoum is also a PAD leader, facing an indictment on terrorism offences for the airport seizure, charged with instigating unrest and other criminal offences. Therdpoum is also one of the party executives of the New Politics Party.

with this kind of background information the reader would of course view and judge the comments Therdpoum gave about the red shirt movement completely different.

This is how they work, over there at Asia Times Online.

read Bangkok Pundits article with further revealing information and links to sources here:

http://us.asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-p...erdpoum-chaidee

PS: the Asia Times Online article is here:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE13Ae01.html

edit: added clear link to ATO

Edited May 30, 2010 by mazeltov