The Same Person?

[JusMe]

For a while, I've been curious about Thaksin's academic record.

He took a Master's degree at Eastern Kentucky University, (http://www.eku.edu/) for which he wrote a thesis, "An analysis of the relationship between the educational process and rule of law."

He then took a Doctoral degree at Sam Houston State University (http://www.shsu.edu/) in Texas. His doctoral thesis was, "An analysis of the relationship between the criminal justice educational process and the attitude of the students toward the rule of law."

For these academic activities, he must, or at least should, have had a reasonable command of English. Yes, I know many foreign students don't. I even know American students with graduate degrees who have trouble spelling anything more than their own names. However, there should be some basic level of English command to be granted a graduate degree.

I don't have access to the libraries of Eastern Kentucky or Sam Houston State in order to check the complete theses. I think one would probably need either to be there, or at least be able to do some inter-university library loans.

However, his Master's thesis record (http://ekulib.kyvl.org/vwebv/search?searchArg=Thaksin&searchCode=NKEY%5E*&limitTo=none&searchType=1&page.search.search.button=Search) does indicate:

"Thesis (M.S.)--Eastern Kentucky University.

The attitude of society toward the rule of law is problematic, in that the degree of compliance to the rule of law is the critical point. Society creates contrasting goals for law enforcement officers. That is, police are expected to suppress crime and its deleterious effects, yet they are also expected to adhere strictly to a prescribed set of rules of law when completing their mission.

The purpose of this study was to determine if the educational process while attending a university has any effect upon the attitudes of law enforcement students toward the importance of rule of law. In other words, this study will attempt to analyze what effect the educational process has upon the attitudes of law enforcement students toward the rule of law."

There is nothing about his doctoral degree other than the basic library record: http://unicorn.shsu.edu/uhtbin/cgisirsi.ex.../0/12560005/5/0

Is this the same man who in the Lateline interview just a few days ago, said (from the transcript: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2010/s2910366.htm)

"Well, first of all let me express my sympathy of the arrests of the Australian that went on the stage after the Red Shirts and been arrested.

Through the loyalty, our un-loyal, emergency decree, which is, I very sympathise him. But anyway, the, whether going back or no is not the matter of an urgency.

The urgency is that how can we see Thailand having a reconciliation, real reconciliation. If I, if anything, if the confrontation still going on, is not good for the country. We want to see reconciliation because the Government always said about reconciliation but the way they use the iron fist approach, they are not using velvet glove approach that is mean that they are more confrontation than reconciliation."

and "We never, we never, engage in violence. If you look at the way, if you look at the way the military suppression, they use tanks, they use snipers, they hit the general by snipers, they hit the many people by snipers. Even at the temples on the last day before they go back home, there be massacre in the temple. That is what the international should concern."

or "where can you buy the weapons? They are not military. How can you buy? And then, ah, if they have weapons why they have surrendered so easy? Why they don't, they don't shoot with the military? Why there is not military casualty on the military side? So I think you have to be very reasonable to understand the situation."

Is this the same standard of English? If not, who actually wrote those theses? Interesting if a true search was done to check the credentials, hmm?

[anothertorres]

i'm not sure exactly what you are getting at but i can tell you that i know University grad students (thai) who write better english than i do, but they don't quite speak as well as a native english speaker.

[oldmajor]

i'm not sure exactly what you are getting at but i can tell you that i know University grad students (thai) who write better english than i do, but they don't quite speak as well as a native english speaker.

Absolutley true.

The Thai University Graduates that work for us will often choose to talk on chat rather than pick up the phone. Their written English is excellent.

[DP25]

I've encountered worse English than his a few times from foreign students at American universities. Of course, they were all math and science majors

[Deke]

It's also common for graduate students, particularly those whose native language isn't English, to get someone to edit their written presentation. Sometimes the student's advisor will even help with that himself or recommend someone he knows.

[noahvail]

I infer that the OP is talking about a 'ghost writer' who would take a basic sentence and tidy it up into proper 'doctoral level' English. Those people do exist. However, for the writer in question, I would not make such a leap without further evidence. As other posters have said, and I can add to them, the written English of many Thai people is better than their spoken English.

BTW, I got a 404 error on Eastern Kentucky and 3 time-out errors in a row for Sam Houston.

[katana]

It's also common for graduate students, particularly those whose native language isn't English, to get someone to edit their written presentation. Sometimes the student's advisor will even help with that himself or recommend someone he knows.

That happened at my college with one student who was not a native English speaker. His supervisor corrected the grammar before thesis submission.

[Svenn]

Thaksin went to Eastern Kentucky and Sam Houston State??!! Sweet mercy everyone... sometimes amongst the skyscrapers of Bkk I feel like I'm in first world country... but then I hear stuff like this, a supposedly 'hi-so' foreign education among wealthy Thais, consisting merely of some crappy American backwater 'universities'! I really have to wonder if there are respectable, well-education world citizens living in Thailand or if everyone's a bit sketchy around the edges...

[MAJIC]

Thaksins spoken English is absolutely atrocious,no depth,toneless,no impact,sqeeky,nasal,disjointed,faltering,often out

of context frankly I have heard Tuk Tuk drivers speak better english than him. IMO I would seriously doubt that his

written English is any better quality.

Whilst PM Abhisit is such a fluent elequent speaker he would be headhunted by the BBC as a Newscaster should he

ever require a job.I suspect his written English would also be of similar 1st class quality,you dont get two 1st Degrees

from two of the best Universities in England for nothing!

[Slip]

Thaksin went to Eastern Kentucky and Sam Houston State??!! Sweet mercy everyone... sometimes amongst the skyscrapers of Bkk I feel like I'm in first world country... but then I hear stuff like this, a supposedly 'hi-so' foreign education among wealthy Thais, consisting merely of some crappy American backwater 'universities'! I really have to wonder if there are respectable, well-education world citizens living in Thailand or if everyone's a bit sketchy around the edges...

Well, don't worry too much, the chap from the other side was schooled at Eton and Oxford.

[Svenn]

Well, don't worry too much, the chap from the other side was schooled at Eton and Oxford.

that's more like it for a national leader. I haven't been around much in the wealthier circles of Bkk, but from what I've seen every Thai who gets well-educated and rich usually gets the hel_l out of Thailand as fast as they can. Are there really, besides top CEOs and national leaders, highly-educated folk who stick around in the country permanently and full-time? It's like when I was in Cambodia- I saw a leader of new political party who had a whole entourage and some public support, and then I find out later he's just some average Khmer-American guy who owns some stores back in the US!!

[Donnyboy]

Thaksins spoken English is absolutely atrocious,no depth,toneless,no impact,sqeeky,nasal,disjointed,faltering,often out

of context

what do you mean?

[AyG]

As others have mentioned, it's pretty common for non-native speakers to get someone to tidy up the English of their thesis. This is something I've done quite frequently for a fee. In fact, the involvement goes beyond simply improving the English. I have also often had to do major restructuring of the thesis to make it more coherent and pointed out flaws in the the student's logic and gaps in the research. In a number of cases, I'm pretty sure that my involvement made the difference between a pass and a fail.

[JusMe]

It's also common for graduate students, particularly those whose native language isn't English, to get someone to edit their written presentation. Sometimes the student's advisor will even help with that himself or recommend someone he knows.

First, sorry if you can't access those web pages. Easy enough to do a search, anyway.

I've quoted Deke but there are several who suggested the same response.

Where's the line between editing a thesis to help out with the grammar, or taking a basic sentence and tidying it up into proper 'doctoral level' English, and actually having someone write the whole thing for you to put your name on?

I'm not making any accusations, just a query. I don't have access to those theses here and wonder just what *real* academic standard they meet.