Thai Script And English Words

[mikenyork]

I make a habit of reading street signs whenever I get the chance in the hope of improving my reading speed (which is pretty dismal in Thai). Occasionally, this can be pretty amusing. My latest find

้เฮลแอนด์ดรัก

I knew that pharmaceuticals could be hel_l, but I was surprised to see a pharmacy using this as a marketing ploy. (;p

I also find that English words brought over into Thai and pronounced by Thai pronunciation rules can be difficult for me. My gf asked me if we had received a "washer" in the email from the hotel. "Washer"?, I asked. "V-O-U-C-H-E-R!", she explained. Ah yes, THAT "washer". Another time, a young man in an internet cafe told me he couldn't print any documents that day because he didn't have a "Fat Die". He couldn't really explain what a Fat Die might be, but I finally figured out it was a FLASH DRIVE! If you are Thai, the link between Fat Die and Flash Drive is obvious. But not to me.

English phrases and words can change pretty dramatically in the transfer from English to Thai as well. Many years ago I began to hear the phrase "Ded Samali" to mean someone was completely out of luck, finished, etc. Only much later did I learn that this phrase was actually "That's Amore", the pop song made popular by Dean Martin in the early 1950's. How we got from "That's Amore" to being dead has to be assigned, I suppose, to TIT.

[anchan42]

I don't think we are in Kansas anymore, Toto.

Hard fact;

You are in Thailand where majority of people speak Thai not English.

Your gf did not know the different between the /w/ and /v/ because there is no /v/ sound in Thailand and standard Thailand education system is not to be relied on for such matter. What you could do is teach her (provided that you know how to do that). She might try to tell you the different between /b/, /p/, and /p^h/ in return.

Many consonant clusters are sometimes optional in Thai. Some people or some dialects replace them with single consonant sound. They probably do the same for English sound they try to copy so /fl/ become just /f/ or /dr/ become /d/.

English sounds that most Thai have problem with;

/v/ become /w/

/θ/ (voiceless th) become /t/ or /t^h/

/ð/ (voiced th) become /d/

/z/ become /s/

/tʃ/ and /ʃ/ sound the same to Thai so they will be reproduced the same.

/r/ usually become /l/

/r/ and /l/ in consonant cluster will be dropped.

any consonant at the end of a syllable that are not plosives or nasals will be dropped or changed. ex /v/ sound in drive.

Some times plosives and nasals at the end of syllable will be dropped out as well. Most Thai pronounce "hold" something like โฮ /l/ and /d/ are dropped out completely.

[321niti123]

The flash drive incident is because of the consonants at the end of a syllable

if sh, ch, j=t

there is no w or r at the end so when drive is transliterated to thai the ์ is put to remove that sound or else the consonant w would change sounds

[Peppy]

That's Amore/Dead Somali is a funny one... nothing to do with Somalis, I just made that up, but it seems the words "that" and "dead" sound pretty much identical to the untrained Thai ear. It's interesting, though, how this phrase has lasted so long. Not many young people in Thailand (or anywhere else, for that matter) know who Dean Martin was, but everybody knows det-sa-mo-le (เด็ด สะมอเร่), even little kids. (Perhaps especially little kids; they seem to love words that sound 'foreign' and therefore funny.)

Just a note on this word's meaning: It doesn't exactly mean "finished" or "out-of-luck"; more like "dead as a doornail", "a goner", "kaput", "done for", or just plain "dead".

And regarding the issue of Thai pronunciation of English words--well, if you're like me and can't stand listening to folks here murder the sounds and grammar of our fine language, then it's a good incentive to learn Thai well and avoid using English altogether. (I'm sure there are plenty of Thais who've been frustrated by listening to foreigners mangle their language beyond recognition too, so there is a big onus on us to get their grammar and sounds right, lest we end up sounding as bad to them as they do to us.)

[anchan42]

The man who invented the word "Ded Samali" It was when Thailand first had television broadcasting.

เทิ่ง สติเฟื่อง

http://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B9%80%E0%...%B8%AD%E0%B8%87

Edited May 31, 2010 by anchan42

[Peppy]

Thanks, Anchan! I'd never heard of the fellow--very interesting.

From the Wikipedia page:

เทิ่ง สติเฟื่อง เป็นคนที่คิดคำศัพท์แปลกๆมาใช้ในรายการ และเป็นที่นิยมกัน เช่น "เริ่ดสะแมนแตน" "เดทสะมอเร่" "โล่สะมันเตา" "แรดสะมูต้า" และ "ส.บ.ม.ย.ห."

(My translation: Terng Satifueang coined many odd words which were used on his show, and they were very popular. For example: "Rert-sa-man-tan", "det-sa-mo-re", "loh-sa-man-tao", "rat-sa-muu-ta", and "saw-baw-maw-yaw-haw".)

I already knew เดทสะมอเร่ and ส.บ.ม.ย.ห. (an acronym for สบายมากอย่าห่วง "I'm great, don't worry"). As for "เริ่ดสะแมนแตน", I did some searching and came up with this: http://www.pantip.com/cafe/isolate/topic/M...3/M9299953.html. It's a bit complicated, but basically it comes from the name of Nai Lert, of Nai Lert Park Hotel fame (1872-1945). When he was young, his original name was เลิศมันเตา, read as เลิด-สะ-มัน-เตา. As he grew older and made a name for himself as one of Thailand's foremost entrepreneurs, his name became incorporated into the slang of the time, with a meaning of "neat", "spiffy", or "nifty". Later, our Mr. Terng changed it to เริ่ดสะแมนแตน, presumably with the same meaning.

As for the others, I have no idea, and Google isn't very helpful. "โล่สะมันเตา" would seem to be related to Nai Lert, or เลิศมันเตา, but whether it has the same meaning as "เริ่ดสะแมนแตน" I don't know. The แรด in แรดสะมูต้า leads me to think it must have something to do with loose women, since "แรด" (rhino) is slang for "slut", but again, I've found nothing confirming this on the net. Anyone else out there ever heard these?

[anchan42]

Thanks, Anchan! I'd never heard of the fellow--very interesting.

From the Wikipedia page:

เทิ่ง สติเฟื่อง เป็นคนที่คิดคำศัพท์แปลกๆมาใช้ในรายการ และเป็นที่นิยมกัน เช่น "เริ่ดสะแมนแตน" "เดทสะมอเร่" "โล่สะมันเตา" "แรดสะมูต้า" และ "ส.บ.ม.ย.ห."

(My translation: Terng Satifueang coined many odd words which were used on his show, and they were very popular. For example: "Rert-sa-man-tan", "det-sa-mo-re", "loh-sa-man-tao", "rat-sa-muu-ta", and "saw-baw-maw-yaw-haw".)

I already knew เดทสะมอเร่ and ส.บ.ม.ย.ห. (an acronym for สบายมากอย่าห่วง "I'm great, don't worry"). As for "เริ่ดสะแมนแตน", I did some searching and came up with this: http://www.pantip.com/cafe/isolate/topic/M...3/M9299953.html. It's a bit complicated, but basically it comes from the name of Nai Lert, of Nai Lert Park Hotel fame (1872-1945). When he was young, his original name was เลิศมันเตา, read as เลิด-สะ-มัน-เตา. As he grew older and made a name for himself as one of Thailand's foremost entrepreneurs, his name became incorporated into the slang of the time, with a meaning of "neat", "spiffy", or "nifty". Later, our Mr. Terng changed it to เริ่ดสะแมนแตน, presumably with the same meaning.

As for the others, I have no idea, and Google isn't very helpful. "โล่สะมันเตา" would seem to be related to Nai Lert, or เลิศมันเตา, but whether it has the same meaning as "เริ่ดสะแมนแตน" I don't know. The แรด in แรดสะมูต้า leads me to think it must have something to do with loose women, since "แรด" (rhino) is slang for "slut", but again, I've found nothing confirming this on the net. Anyone else out there ever heard these?

Similar to you, I heard of "เริ่ดสะแมนแตน" "เดทสะมอเร่ "ส.บ.ม.ย.ห." but not any of the rest. He seems to have invented many words, some stay and some die out I supposed.

[Peppy]

I think I've got them all cracked now. Here's a rundown, with transliteration for the folks that haven't learned to read yet:

เริ่ดสะแมนแตน/rert-sa-man-tan--Super duper (from the childhood name of the famous Bangkok businessman from King Chulalongkorn's time, "เลิศมันเตา" (Lert Sa-man-tao). Most people should be able to guess the meaning of this one, even if they haven't heard it before, since the first syllable (เริ่ด/rert) means "tops", or "the best" (เลิศ/lert)

เดทสะมอเร่/det-sa-mo-re--Dead (from That's Amore, a hit song by Dean Martin. "That" and "dead" sound exactly the same to Thais. Eternally popular with little kids, especially those who know that "เดท/det" is English for ตาย.)

โล่สะมันเตา/loh-sa-man-tao--Big and super hot (a combination of Nai Lert's childhood name, "เลิศมันเตา" (Lert Sa-man-tao) and "เตาอังโล่" (tao ang-loh), a type of clay pot used as a stove--search on Google for "เตาอังโล่" to see pictures of them. I doubt many people know this one these days, but if you've got any over-fifty friends who you're comfortable using cheeky language with, give it a try!)

แรดสะมูต้า/rat-sa-muu-ta--Slutty (from Sumatran Rhino, a species of Rhinoceros native to the Indonesian island of Sumatra (also called กระซู่/gra-suu in Thai). As noted previously, "แรด" (raet) is slang for "slutty". Like some of the other words here, it's unlikely that anyone you know has heard or used this in ages, if at all, but they'll all be able to guess the meaning from the first syllable alone. Again, try this with your aging friends, if you think "slutty" is a word that's in their vocabulary.)

ส.บ.ม.ย.ห./saw-baw-maw-yaw-haw, or S.B.M.Y.H.--I'm great, don't worry. (An acronym for สบายมากอย่าห่วง/sabaai mahk yah huang. A shortened version of this, ส.บ.ม. (saw-baw-maw, S.B.M.), for สบายมาก/sabaai mahk "I'm great", was recently seen on TV as part of an ad for Benmore Scotch whiskey.)

Edited June 1, 2010 by Peppy

[NBD]

When I'm teaching my girlfriend English I generally tell her to pronounce a "v" as an "f" or ผ.

It's a very short step from an "f" to a "v" and certainly to my ear "ferry" sounds a lot more like "very" than "werry" ever does.

[meadish_sweetball]

I understand what you mean to say, but an ผ does not represent an /f/ sound, it is an aspirated p sound, /ph/. If she applied that sound she would be saying 'perry'.

An /f/ sound is written ฟ (low class consonant) or ฝ (high class consonant).

[NBD]

I understand what you mean to say, but an ผ does not represent an /f/ sound, it is an aspirated p sound, /ph/. If she applied that sound she would be saying 'perry'.

An /f/ sound is written ฟ (low class consonant) or ฝ (high class consonant).

Ahh that's what I meant - "for fan"

Bloody confusing!

[Peppy]

^^^ What are you guys on about? I thought this thread was about Thai slang in the sixties...

Just kidding. Sorry to have hijacked your thread with all that, mikenyork.

Since Meadish and NBD were so kind as to bring us back on topic, here's one that really bugs me:

วัน ทู ธรี โฟร์ ไฟว์ ซิคส์ เซเว่น เอท ไนน์ เท็น

Wun, tuu, ate, and ten are ok, but tree, foe*, fie*, sick, say-WHEN, nigh? (*Where are fee and fum?)

The vocalizations resulting from attempts to transcribe English to Thai script are as bad as when it's done the other way around. Phonics is something that needs to be taught early in schools, preferably by a native speaker. It's not so useful for vowels, which are dreadfully inconsistent in English (especially in common words: come/home, comb/bomb, eat/great/bread, mint/pint etc. etc.), but it's absolutely necessary for consonants, which usually make the same sound all the time (with just a few exceptions like G, C, and Y, though even these follow general rules). For any Thai who wishes to be halfway understandable when speaking English, it's imperative to learn and practice the sounds of the English consonants and combinations thereof, especially in the final position.

[mikenyork]

I don't think we are in Kansas anymore, Toto.

Hard fact;

You are in Thailand where majority of people speak Thai not English.

Your gf did not know the different between the /w/ and /v/ because there is no /v/ sound in Thailand and standard Thailand education system is not to be relied on for such matter. What you could do is teach her (provided that you know how to do that). She might try to tell you the different between /b/, /p/, and /p^h/ in return.

Many consonant clusters are sometimes optional in Thai. Some people or some dialects replace them with single consonant sound. They probably do the same for English sound they try to copy so /fl/ become just /f/ or /dr/ become /d/.

English sounds that most Thai have problem with;

/v/ become /w/

/θ/ (voiceless th) become /t/ or /t^h/

/ð/ (voiced th) become /d/

/z/ become /s/

/tʃ/ and /ʃ/ sound the same to Thai so they will be reproduced the same.

/r/ usually become /l/

/r/ and /l/ in consonant cluster will be dropped.

any consonant at the end of a syllable that are not plosives or nasals will be dropped or changed. ex /v/ sound in drive.

Some times plosives and nasals at the end of syllable will be dropped out as well. Most Thai pronounce "hold" something like โฮ /l/ and /d/ are dropped out completely.

Little troubled by your tone there, mate. My post was meant tongue in cheek and not as an opportunity to slam me or my gf. Just for the record, if you would like to have a phone conversation and compare Thai ability sometime, I'd welcome the opportunity. Started speaking Thai in 2508 (if you can figure out when that was --just to adopt your attitude for a moment). Pass for a native over the phone most of the time. How about you?

[Peppy]

Little troubled by your tone there, mate. My post was meant tongue in cheek and not as an opportunity to slam me or my gf. Just for the record, if you would like to have a phone conversation and compare Thai ability sometime, I'd welcome the opportunity. Started speaking Thai in 2508 (if you can figure out when that was --just to adopt your attitude for a moment). Pass for a native over the phone most of the time. How about you?

I think he is a native. I don't think he was trying to knock anyone though, just explaining the reasons why Thais speak English the way they do.

[anchan42]

Little troubled by your tone there, mate. My post was meant tongue in cheek and not as an opportunity to slam me or my gf. Just for the record, if you would like to have a phone conversation and compare Thai ability sometime, I'd welcome the opportunity. Started speaking Thai in 2508 (if you can figure out when that was --just to adopt your attitude for a moment). Pass for a native over the phone most of the time. How about you?

Sorry that I make you feel that way. After reread my post I can understand why. You post reminded me of a couple who lived together for long time but yet refused to learn or help each other learn from each other.

This is not in any way suggest you are like that.

You have been here since 2508? Wow!! that was before I was born.

People did take me for a Chinese over the phone once or twice. With my inadequate Chinese, I can hardly see that it is my false.

Congrats on your achievement in Thai.

[meadish_sweetball]

Since Meadish and NBD were so kind as to bring us back on topic, here's one that really bugs me:

วัน ทู ธรี โฟร์ ไฟว์ ซิคส์ เซเว่น เอท ไนน์ เท็น

Wun, tuu, ate, and ten are ok, but tree, foe*, fie*, sick, say-WHEN, nigh? (*Where are fee and fum?)

The vocalizations resulting from attempts to transcribe English to Thai script are as bad as when it's done the other way around. Phonics is something that needs to be taught early in schools, preferably by a native speaker. It's not so useful for vowels, which are dreadfully inconsistent in English (especially in common words: come/home, comb/bomb, eat/great/bread, mint/pint etc. etc.), but it's absolutely necessary for consonants, which usually make the same sound all the time (with just a few exceptions like G, C, and Y, though even these follow general rules). For any Thai who wishes to be halfway understandable when speaking English, it's imperative to learn and practice the sounds of the English consonants and combinations thereof, especially in the final position.

consonants, which usually make the same sound all the time

Except, of course when they occur in combinations with other consonants to denote a single sound ("rough), or are completely silent ("bough")... or when four letters are combined to make one single sound: ("nought" or "naughty)

(Just pulling your leg, I very much agree with what you're saying).

[mangkorn]

Little troubled by your tone there, mate. My post was meant tongue in cheek and not as an opportunity to slam me or my gf. Just for the record, if you would like to have a phone conversation and compare Thai ability sometime, I'd welcome the opportunity. Started speaking Thai in 2508 (if you can figure out when that was --just to adopt your attitude for a moment). Pass for a native over the phone most of the time. How about you?

No problem with low self-esteem there. But just for the record, Khun anchan is Thai. A little humility - or at least minimal prior review of the record, to know whom you attacking - would seem to have been in order.

[Mosha]

I had a Thai friend ask me if I had Hi-Fi. To which I asked "To play CDs?" "No (laughs) for internet." Wi-Fi