A Cautionary Tale

[Steve2UK]

Since I joined ThaiVisa last year, I've got a lot of really valuable help from it - some in the form of basic info for living here and some that is best described as "informing my view". I've also tried to put something back when I see something being asked that I have researched or when I think I've got a worthwhile opinion to add. What follows is really neither of those, but I'm going to post it anyway - a] because it may be useful to some and b] because regular readers of the Gay forum may be getting withdrawal symptoms while they wait for IJWT's next installment

I'm planning to move to Thailand permanently sometime early in 2006. To that end I came to Chiang Mai for a month this February for a proper lookaround (previous visits were just as vacations). In the first week, I met a couple of guys from a certain online dating site - saw one of them once and one twice; all just for mutual fun and fine as that. I then met another guy from the same site and things took off. He's 29 and has a small bar/restaurant in the city - it's semi-gay in that nearly all the staff are gay, but it's not the Night Bazaar (Peak) kind of host bar; it's also mixed in terms of getting Thai as well as farang customers whether straight or gay.

Anyhow, the relationship developed and we were soon spending every night at my rented apartment. Sometimes I'd spend the evening in the bar, but otherwise I'd drive down to the bar sometime around midnight to collect him after it closed and we'd spend the mornings together (often with him making breakfast in the apartment) and I'd drive him to the bar to open up in the afternoons. I got to know most of his circle of friends, playing cards and so on - and we were plainly regarded as a couple. When we went somewhere out of the ordinary, I'd pay; when we picked up things from the market, I would pay some of the time - he would pay the other times.

The bar wasn't exactly doing great business - low season had already arrived and it's not in a prime location. He had had to pawn his cellphone to pay the lady cook - so I came up with 3,000 baht to get it back for him. One time when his karaoke player broke and couldn't be fixed, we went looking for something to stand in for it; basic amplifier cost 1,000 baht - and sure, I bought it for him. Can't have a bar without music. All of these things I regarded as just lending a helping hand - as with getting his place mentioned on some websites (saying nothing I don't believe to be true). Help him to help himself. Why? Because I could and felt I should - and I liked him a lot. No way did I want to take on responsibility for what is his business - literally and figuratively; and due attention to hai kiad etc.

Inevitably we had a few ups and downs with some misunderstandings and personality/culture clashes - he can be Thai-stubborn and I may be a nice guy but I'm no angel. But it was all fixable and got fixed - "we learn from each other" - and we seemed to be closer after each incident (not that many, in fact). As to the future (me living in Chiang Mai full time) - that was a long way away and we were both being very grown up with none of those misty-eyed promises of everything that we would do and be together. After all, I was going to be back in London for at least 6 months and who could tell what might happen at either end in that time? So - all very sensible and realistic.

When I left, I made him a present of 15,000 baht - 5,000 to get his really bad exterior sign replaced (we'd already been to a store to see what it would cost) and 10,000 to use however he thought best. Emotional farewells at the airport - and a very touching SMS text from him while I was in the departure lounge.

After I got back to London, we were exchanging text messages daily and chatting online a couple of times a week. Round about Songkran, he starts to tell me he's having money problems and doesn't know if he can keep the bar open much longer. Hands up all those who are not surprised? He also tells me that, during Songkran, someone has stolen his cellphone and wallet with a few thousand baht in it. After a bit of thought, I ask him what he needs every month to cover the basic bar cost and he tells me 14,000. I should say that by now, I had already decided that I wanted to come back to Chiang Mai in June a] to sort out more practicalities for my long term move and b] (of course) to see him again. So, I send him 28,000 baht - thinking that this will tide him over until I arrive; but even when I arrive, I am not going to be taking financial responsibility for his bar; basically, if he can't make it pay - he'll have to ditch it and do something else. Meanwhile, I suggest to him that he should economise - fewer customers so fewer staff. "Yes", he says, "I understand and I will do it". (Stop laughing at the back! ).

So far, so good - or, at least, not bad. Except (get those hands ready again), a few weeks later........ he has money problems again.

"What happened to the money I sent you?"

"I have to pay for this, for that, licence for the bar and more....... send some money to my family"

I'm not happy about the family part, but I know how it has to work in Thailand. I'm also thinking that his mates have seen the wad of cash in his wallet and have suddenly remembered the 500 baht they owe to the landlord and 300 to someone else etc etc. TIT....... So, I decide to send him some more (28,000 again - groan ) but this time with the warning that he must put the money in the bank and only take what he needs from the ATM when he needs it - and don't tell your mates. Some hope of that...........

Meanwhile, the text messages and online chats have been getting more intense - plans for the future etc. Rather more from his side than mine - talk about getting rings when I'm back in Chiang Mai, maybe Buddhist blessing. And, occasionally, I get the feeling that he's maybe testing me: "Maybe you don't really love me?". Without wanting to seem clinical or cynical, I'm already thinking that this isn't quite the way we left things. I also don't enjoy one particular online chat which seems to be mainly about how a cheap second-hand car would be good when I come back to Chiang Mai - we use it while I'm there for 3 weeks and then he can keep it to do his licence. A flickering light in my mind is getting me to really wonder about how good he is getting at spending my money. I'm also starting to wonder what would be happening with his bar, debts etc if I hadn't happened along. Don't bother - I know the answer......

A few weeks later and one week before I'm due to arrive (no, no, put your hands down - it's too obvious), yes - he has money problems again. I am seriously p~~~ed off with this and am reaching the stage where enough is (more than) enough. I am on the verge of saying that he'll just have to wait until I get there and we'll see then - when I remember a whole lot of personal stuff I'd left with him at the bar; not all that valuable or irreplaceable, but I want it. I could/should have sent something less this time - say 10-15,000 - which would have at least sent him a message as well, but (mega groan) I send another 28,000. How stupid is that? My only excuse (and there's a lesson in this for all sitting at home in the west) is that I was thinking UK values not Thai - even if it's not insignificant in £ terms; I was also a bit ill and just wanted to be done with it. Still s-t-u-p-i-d.

Having arrived at Chiang Mai airport, no sign of meet and greet from C. Tried calling him on his mobile several times and couldn't get through. After 20 minutes, I went to the taxi desk and booked to go to the apartment. As I get outside, I see a face I know from C's bar - a driver who does tours etc. He tells me that C couldn't come and asked him to pick me up. Garbled conversation about why, where is C etc. He goes to fetch the car and turns up with two guys I know from the bar, one of whom is clutching a large bunch of roses and a note from C - which apologises for his not being at the airport and explains nothing. More questions to these guys and still no better information except "C outside Chiang Mai". They're not clear when he went or when he's due back. As if.......

We drive to the bar to collect the stuff that I left there last time. Some furniture has been re-arranged and about 150 bahtsworth of fairy lights have been hung up behind the bar. The illuminated sign that I gave C some money to replace is just the same. Far from there being a skeleton crew there, I count a total of five............... kind of different from the C plus one friend that he had told me about (economising, you see). No sign of C and I've given up asking questions; and - paranoia aside - I'm sensing that people are feeling a bit uncomfortable. Lots of smiles and kisses, but I'm smelling rodent.

So, out of there with my stuff and drive on to the apartment. Next day, I met up with a good farang friend who has lived here a long time and we had a long chat about it all. Essentially, he confirmed my suspicions not least because, when I told him about the money, his eyebrows nearly reached escape velocity. As mentioned, I was already questioning how C could be getting through it so quickly when nearly everything is so cheap - but my friend said that a normal per month living cost for a Thai in Chiang Mai is about 30% less than I was allowing. Except that not many Thai's would run to sitting with Thai friends at a table in a hotel disco enjoying a bottle of Johnnie Walker - (Black Label, if you please) - which is where he last saw C a few weeks back.

It's easy to work out that C has met up with someone else (probably someone from before - most likely the previous boyfriend who helped set him up in the bar) and my arrival clashed with that, even though he knew the dates long ago.

A couple of days later and still no word from C, I'm tired of seeing the bouquet of roses laying where I've tossed it. Rather than just throw it out, I decide to drive down to the bar late that night and stick it top down into the water feature that stands outside - so that it'll be found when they open the bar next day. A small (small-minded?) gesture that made me feel better and will be a clearly understood message that should cost C some serious face. Or maybe not. Anyhow, next day I get an online message from C that says "sorry" twice and mentions six times how he feels so bad, unhappy, can't sleep etc. I don't think you'll be surprised that I haven't sent a reply. With that money, he can easily run to a couple of valium or shots of whiskey (even Black Label) to help him sleep.

Apart from reflecting on the personal arrogance/conceit that sometimes leads me to kid myself that I can buck trends or systems, I'm actually relieved that it has turned out like this - even if it has been more expensive than strictly necessary if I had been more disciplined about it. Basically, the situation with C was either a] getting more serious than is right for my move-to-Thailand project and timing right now - or b] it wasn't sincere. Of course, the bulk of the evidence points pretty conclusively to some version of b]. Whatever the specific facts or excuses, what I already know has completely undermined whatever I liked to think was there and that's an end to it. I'll try not to get cynical as a result, but I'll be keeping at least one eye open for quite a while yet. Worse things happen at sea and at least it's a change from the buffalo, the sick grandmother etc etc........

[pedro01]

Well - I think you should count yourself lucky that you didn't get hit too hard financially before you saw the situation for what it was.

A friend of mine got taken for 5 million Baht before he saw the light (well actually - he saw his wife with a French man - but that's a different story).

I personally got off as lightly as 10,000 Baht - sick father turned out to be a second hand honda motorcy....

Amazing

[Steve2UK]

I personally got off as lightly as 10,000 Baht - sick father turned out to be a second hand honda motorcy....

Amazing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could be on to something. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised if I see C weaving around in a cheap second-hand car before long

Actually, while I admit I could easily be kidding myself further, my instinct is that it wasn't a "sting" as such - more likely, he just couldn't resist the temptation of what he saw as easy money. I like to think that I wouldn't have got into it with someone from his (presumably bar) background who was younger, say 25. As I mentioned in the main post, he's 29. Still - maybe old habits really do die hard.

Edited June 17, 2005 by Steve2UK

[Bobcat]

Steve - Don't feel bad. You sound like a very kind person, with a great sense of humour. Lot's of fish in the sea, some of whom aren't so fishy.

[Steve2UK]

Steve - Don't feel bad.  You sound like a very kind person, with a great sense of humour.  Lot's of fish in the sea, some of whom aren't so fishy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Much appreciated - and I like to think you're right on both counts about me. As I mentioned originally, I don't want to let it make me cynical and I certainly agree about the last point. I still love this place and the people.

[ProThaiExpat]

Steve2UK: An interesting story and as you point out, all too common.

Where do we go from here? When the heart is involved and your not a using person, cautious steps and definite "lines in the sand" must be drawn.

I have a buddy still working in the U.S. who owns a house in Chaing Mai and "maintains" a Thai boyfriend "long distance" and it has been going on for four years. The b/f lives with mom in BKK and has just finished university. Supposedly looking for work.

His problems with money and his Thai mirror mine in many ways and there are many common threads. I love my Thai very much and he loves me, of that there is not doubt. Money and your Thai, and I mean the eventual "long stay" one, will always be problematical.

I have worked for three years to reach a place where I am comfortable with the current financial arrangement, but I am kidding myself if I think a "new wrinkle" will not be advanced. It has nothing to do with love.

It does have to do with a totally different attitude about money, honesty with money and financail goals.

I am now at the place that I must keep the line drawn in the sand in place. When explaining this concept to my Thai, that the current arrangement, which is incredably fair to him, is fixed like a line drawn, his reply was classic "What if I just erase the line". Done with an impish grin.

I can only change myself, not him, so my three years has been an effort to reach a point with my lifemate as to how far I am willing to go financially and then stick to it. I am on a pension, so captial is not on the table, only income from the pension. So we are really talking about covering living essentials and dealing with the excess, equatably.

It is clear to me that he will "dispose" of all funds made available to him and will mai pen rai after that, so the line in the sand has been drawn, he has accepted it and it is up to me to adhere to it no matter what.

Are you suprised he has not been able to save a satang, that I know about, from his portion of the monthly excess, while I have saved 80% of my portion. I even pay for household discretionary items. His expenses are mostly sport related, local foods with friends and family "loans".

I have already gone through the sin sot wth mother-in-law, cash to family members ad nauseum and my current arrangement is my last straw.

He is allowed to "draw" in advance what is anticipated will be his portion of this month's excess, (of course he has done so already) 10K Baht loan to sister to pay for gasoline license for her shop gas pump, he will get it back, of course. Fine, he had that amount in his draw for this month and I have long ago gotten out of what he does with his money.

He is now tapped out for the month and must awat next month for his next draw. Clearly, increased aircon bills diminishes his monthly draw as it does mine.

There is hope as once he saw his overage cell phone charges, everything over 1200 a month, taken from his draw or portion of his excess, he was only 200 over last month. It has been as much as 3k over before, and all my yelling and shouting was to no avail.

Treating my Thai as an equal partner as much as I can has been my long term approach. If the money available to "us" is equally shared on expenses, both essential and discretionary, then "fairness" becomes an issue. Thus not acting as an ATM machine, a on demand money account, like many falang inadvertinely do, perhaps may resolve the only real probem we have between us.

Time will tell. PM for details.

[Steve2UK]

Many good points, PTE - particularly about drawing the line in the sand (or trying to).

But, if I understand you right, I think you're saying that you split 50/50 any spare funds after basic costs are met? Maybe my notion is wrong, but I don't see it working like that for me - and the eventual "us". I will have some income from the UK (not a pension, as it happens) which I calculate is about right to pay for a reasonably comfortable if not extravagant lifestyle in Chiang Mai. I also have some reasonable cash reserve.

In the scenario I have in mind, included in my calculations is a maximum of 5,000 baht per month which I might expect to give to my Thai partner. Not because he needs it (he should be working and he's living in the house for free) but because I can and I think I should; kind of like sharing the good fortune, if you like. I would be covering the costs of just about everything else - running a car and also a motorbike (which in practice would end up being his to use when he needs it). Likewise, out of the ordinary trips etc.

I now know that 5,000 baht a month is OK money for a typical Thai to live on in Chiang Mai - including renting a room for about 2,000. So, I see that 5,000 as being effectively pocket money on top of what he's making from his job. On that basis, when it's gone it's most definitely gone - no more that month. Well - that's my hope, anyhow.......... In any case, he needn't think to come running to me to say that all his friends have I-pods and how about I get one for him before his birthday?

Another factor (as mentioned in a thread on here a while back) is that I think there's something inherently corrosive about financing a partner to sit around all day doing nothing for himself - what happens to his self-respect? What's his future? Come to that, I would re-think the financial side if he was studying for a worthwhile qualification leading to a better job.

Maybe I'm naiive in looking for the scenario I've outlined, but it's how I've always felt about it - and not just here in LOS.

By the way, I would go stone cold if my partner made that joke (?) about "What if I just erase the line?". Maybe it's my half-German parentage that taught me to know where every penny comes from and where every penny goes. Anyhow, I have just never found jokes about (my) money remotely funny - just the opposite. When C was mentioning all the stuff about buying the secondhand car during our online chat, he kept using that "batting eyelashes" smilie - and I hated it.

Incidentally, I've read elsewhere on the main forum that some Thai wives/girlfriends who are told by their farang partner from the outset "here's your x thousand baht per month and that's it" then determinedly fend off the grasping relatives all by themselves. Why should it be any different for a Thai male partner? The answer (or a big part of it) seems to be to start as you mean to go on; arguably, I started wrong with C and it just got wronger and wronger (of course, it didn't seem like that at the time )

No criticism intended (after all you're already three years into doing it and I'm still only thinking about it), but doesn't it depend on the individuals? You seem to be making it work well - with a lot of effort on your part to hold the line. I see myself having to do the same, no matter how blessed my eventual partner turns out to be. As I mentioned in my second post, I think I made it possible for C to go for more money (deceitfully) - and he did. If I hadn't, he couldn't. My current sense is that most Thai's can and do accept limits in a way that a western boyfriend probably wouldn't. Like you, I very much want to be as equal as possible with my Thai partner - but I also think I have to accept, however reluctantly, that it can only go so far. I will push it as far as I know how to but at some point, after all rational discussion is exhausted, I know I will end up saying: "Because I say so". I just hope it's not too often.

[RDN]

... I'd drive down to the bar sometime around midnight to collect him after it closed ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can take the boy out of the bar...

[Steve2UK]

... I'd drive down to the bar sometime around midnight to collect him after it closed ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can take the boy out of the bar...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[pedro01]

I personally got off as lightly as 10,000 Baht - sick father turned out to be a second hand honda motorcy....

Amazing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could be on to something. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised if I see C weaving around in a cheap second-hand car before long

Actually, while I admit I could easily be kidding myself further, my instinct is that it wasn't a "sting" as such - more likely, he just couldn't resist the temptation of what he saw as easy money. I like to think that I wouldn't have got into it with someone from his (presumably bar) background who was younger, say 25. As I mentioned in the main post, he's 29. Still - maybe old habits really do die hard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For sure - When my friend got stung for the 5 mill - it was cold & calculated.

For me - when I got stung for 10K - it was my girlfriends mate - she saw an opportunity & went for it. Look on the bright side - at least you had some fun !

[PeaceBlondie]

Steve2UK, your story has got me thinking backwards. 'Steven' may shoot me for saying this, but lately my original bar boy called and asked if he could move in. Of course, that's not a good idea, except that we know who we are - a customer and an incredibly good bar boy. Twice I've taken him all the way home to his mom and pop, and we'll probably see each other next week, and go home again next month.

Okay, so my tentative idea (to have him move in on a trial basis) is crazy. Haven't many of us done some other crazy things? Has my tenure here of two years with bar boys and an older live-in boyfriend taught me a few things? How many straight men on this board have taken bargirls home to stay, and it didn't work out a whole lot worse than if they'd taken home a 'good Thai girl'?

Steven IJWT, we need to talk. Steve2UK, call or drop by any time.

[slapdashkitty]

Sorry and I know that your feeling hurt and all....

But you gave 1,400 pounds to a bar boy that you knew for a few weeks?

[Steve2UK]

Always a pleasure to read your posts, Kitty (and they're hard to miss ).

Not entirely accurate - for one thing, I'm not feeling hurt just chastened. And I think I spelt "stupid" correctly

Edited June 18, 2005 by Steve2UK

[ProThaiExpat]

Steve2UK:

I think your "take" on the issue is good. Loving and giving people are not the same a "takers" and falang who fall in the latter category have no difficulty saing no to their loved ones. I find it very difficult, especially when my "capital" is realtively abundant and is not in jeopardy now and I want to make my Thai happy.

Before the current arrangement, I was rich in my partners eyes so 100K baht loan to a relative seemed not much when millions were sitting in foreign bank accounts.

Under this arrangement, the entire pension is available but no more, as my overseas money is going to my daughter as inheritance and my Thai agrees I should do this. He loves my daughter very much and they have a wonderful relationship. Thus, he has not expressed any desire to "suck" her inheritance.

Likewise, my half of th excess every month is not "on the table" as before as he doesn't want to suck my savings as well. The fairness of sharing the disposable income each month has "put him up" as he has as much as I have on a monthly basis.

I think the underlying wisdom in this arrangement has removed me from being arbiter of how he spends his money, that he has as much to spend as I do, and most important to me, I don't have to say NO anymore.

Example: Oil of Olay with whitener, expensive in my book. Easy to say, "buy it with your money, you are rich". If I agree on the purchase, it comes out of the essentials side. In fairness, I like to buy furniture and other household items, replace computer, granite for top of table etc. Not fair to ask him to do without when he would rather sit on the floor and put the money in his account to "loan to a relative" etc. Thus we both have discretionary spending available to each of us and a simple "you buy it out of your money" removes value decisions being imposed on each other.

The long distance four year relationship I spoke of earlier was troublesome for my falang friend as dental work for the Thai was done at Brumrungard, etc. rather than a very acceptable and much cheaper local clinic. Likewise, he was on a tourist budget while visiting so the Thai was used to an abundant flow which had no relationship to daily lving reality.

My friend tried a daily budget approach with his Thai. He felt that he would have 1000 Baht a day disposable income once he settled in Chaing Mai. So he tried my split approach , gave his Thai 500 every day to spend and he kept 500. His Thai suddenly started ordering reasonably priced meals, took less taxis, etc.

As you said, I think most Thais can "make do" with what is available once they believe what "available" means. I like falang food while my Thai likes Issan. Why should he do without while I gorge myself on expensive food? Now, when we go to Bkk, I eat in the expensive restaurant and while I get a foot massage, he goes around the corner and buys his bowl of noodles and beef balls. He is happier and I feel good that he is able to indulge his pleasures and save where he can.

His "need" for shirts is endless, he is very fashion oriented, so I am off the hook in providing for this.

I think I am at the bottom line on this, most relationships have problems with money and it usually is attributed to prioritization disputes. Guys want to buy guy things, women want to spend on women things and the twain rarely meets. People should have their own discretionary spending and I am happy to have been taken out of the decision making role in this regard and the "money police" role as well.

Example: My Thai has reading glasses, very small chip in lower edge. Wants to replace lens. My view it was unnessary as only worn at home.

How about tinted lenses as well? 300 for new "same" lens, 1100 for tinted. "Your decision, your money', I was out of it. He went for the untinted. Excellent resolution in a previously problem generating area, even though the amount was small, he made the value decision on the need. We both were happy, rather than he being happy that he "sucked" my money and I unhappy for him doing it.

Steve2UK: You may find that the allowance approach has been tried by many before you and it was found to be unsuccessful. I tried it, but was unable to deal with pleas for extra amounts, all very artfully presented and in most cases successful. I am quite impressed with the Thais ability to extract money from falang with the falangs consent.

I have never had this problem with western relatioships. It was such a problem with me and my Thai that I feared a breakup. Now it is going smoothly and I am quite comfortable, as the "line drawn in the sand" appeals to my rationality, sense of justice fairness and quite affordable.

I wish you all the best in reaching an equalibrium when your long term relationship begins. Yes people are different and different solutions work in different situations.

Edited June 18, 2005 by ProThaiExpat

[slapdashkitty]

Well thanks Stevie, sweetie hope you are feeling "unchaste" soon!!!!!

A good stiff martini and a smooth boy...or is that the other way around?

Well either way that will set you right!

But while we are on it? Why do you guys feel the need to pay?

Edited June 18, 2005 by slapdashkitty

[ProThaiExpat]

Slapdashkitty:

Who posted we feel the need to pay? When you are a giving person and someone you care about appears to be in need, you willingly pay to make their life easier and because you can afford to. This applies to Thais as well as falang. I know deep in my heart that if we were in need of money, my Thai would work untill he dropped to provide for us.

Most of the threads dealing with money and Thais, generally have as an unexpressed subtext, a "failure in expectation".

In my view, failure of expectation is the primary cause of most unhappiness between people. If one has no expectations of another, then there can be no unhappiness, by definition.

OP clearly had expectations that were not met, thus his sense of loss. If he had no expectations regarding his relatioship, he wouldn't have felt as he did.

Knowing what I do now, I would expect attractive Thai boys who enjoy farang and tolerate a long distance romance with them, to maximize their pleasure by having many falangs on the string.

Each falang on the string, however, probably expects fidelity, even though it seems unrealistic to me that a Thai boy's romantic life should be limited to only a two week visit annually from an overseas falang.

[OxfordWill]

Touching story Steve2UK, but I wonder how well you could communicate with one another, did he speak perfect English or you perfect Thai?

[Totster]

Unlucky mate....

Move on.... get over it... the right one IS there...

Good luck

totster

[ThaiPauly]

Hi Steve,

I found your story very honest. It must be awful to find yourself in that situation, I mean flying to CM, via BK and not find him there for you.

It must have been an awful letdown.

You sound like a good sincere guy ( I have read many of your posts on other forums) and am sure that you will find someone who will treat you better. Everyone learns from their mistakes, they say "Whatever don't kill you makes you stronger" I hope this is the case for you

Good Luck

TP

PS what on earth and why does Siamese Kitty write in the way that she does, somebody ought to tell her there is no need to shout, and certainly not gloat over another person's bad luck. What goes around surely comes around

[Totster]

PS what on earth and why does Siamese Kitty write in the way that she does, somebody ought to tell her there is no need to shout, and certainly not gloat over another person's bad luck. What goes around surely comes around

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Slapdashkitty..

TROLL for sure... ignore is the best option

totster

[expatinasia]

It's nice to know that it's not just us straight boys with out brains in our Richards. ; )

[slapdashkitty]

Well thanks Stevie, sweetie hope you are feeling "unchaste" soon!!!!!

A good stiff martini and a smooth boy...or is that the other way around?

Well either way that will set you right!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK there is that better?

S-UK baby drinks on me...

And the rest-touchy touchy all...I sense alot of projection and angst in here.

I'm with Tots, thanks babe, its just a chat room.

It's not shouting it's a being FABULOUS!!!

Edited June 18, 2005 by slapdashkitty

[ThaiPauly]

Well thanks Stevie, sweetie hope you are feeling "unchaste" soon!!!!!

A good stiff martini and a smooth boy...or is that the other way around?

Well either way that will set you right!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK there is that better?

S-UK baby drinks on me...

And the rest-touchy touchy all...I sense alot of projection and angst in here.

I'm with Tots, thanks babe, its just a chat room.

It's not shouting it's a being FABULOUS!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Go boil your head you silly Cow. You are BORING, ARROGANT, IINSENSATIVE and BORING (oh sorry said that already.) Please confine yourself to this forum, we would not want you "breaking loose" "Being fabulous"- gotta be a wind up!

TROLL

[Steve2UK]

Touching story Steve2UK, but I wonder how well you could communicate with one another, did he speak perfect English or you perfect Thai?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Neither, really. His English is way better than my Thai is so far. I have enough of an understanding of Thai grammar etc and maybe some instinct for choosing an easier to understand form of words in English for a Thai to understand it more readily (e.g. saying "more easy" instead of "easier").

I really don't think there was any time when one couldn't get the other to understand with a mixture of Thai and English. Having said that, there were odd times when his English got temporarily - and conveniently - worse...... what I referred to as "Thai-stubborn" before and particularly when one of us had rubbed the other up the wrong way.

[Steve2UK]

Totster and TP - I appreciate the thoughts, guys. Not trying to enter the granite-jawed hard man stakes or anything, but the moving on is well under way and little grass is growing under my feet

As mentioned before, I do think I kind of opened the door for what happened and I don't find myself feeling bitter. Stuffing his flowers rather publicly into his water feature certainly got a lot of bad karma out of my system and, come to that, enough Buddhism has rubbed off on me to think that there will be some kind of "what goes around comes around" factor for him.

I don't really do revenge, but the film producer in me does conjure up the notion of pulling a stunt sometime - like pulling up outside his bar in a HUGE Mercedes and getting out with a stunning goodie-laden moneyboy on my arm (all rented for the day, of course ). But, nah, I've got a life to get on and enjoy

Expatinasia - you are so-o-o-o-o right!

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, Steve, definitely do rent that Mercedes and rent the most outrageous, gorgeous, trouser-bursting boy you can find!

[Ijustwannateach]

It's too bad it happened to you, Steve, but it does make a great story! (and thanks for the hint! )

This just underlines the frequent advice that locals give tourists: don't move here for the sake of someone you've already met. I guess it might work out once in a blue moon, but that would be the exception that proves the rule.

I, for one, LOVE Slapdashkitty's out-of-control posts, much more so than the out-of-control posts of certain OTHER posters on this thread....

PB, looks like you're just begging for trouble- but I hope it's fun while it lasts! Lock up the silver! Call you soon!

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

I always lock up the silver. In fact, silver or gold is the only thing that's been stolen from this apartment in the 23 months I've been here, and none of it was mine. I do lock away the cash, wallet, mobiles, etc., before certain visitors come in the apartment. But except for US$700 that was carelessly left out for much longer than I care to admit (totally my fault), about the only thing these guys take with them (besides what I willingly give them) is an occasional hairbrush. I honestly believe that 99% of all Thai Buddhists must be scared of committing petty theft. On the other hand, grand larceny at 28,000 baht at a time is another story.

For those reading this thread, the matter that Steven and I are discussing is the legendary 'rescuing the poor young prostitute.' There are worse things that one can do. Especially when they look so gorgeous and bulging getting out of a Mercedes, or off a Honda.

[slapdashkitty]

Yawn...

Paulie sweetie darling...

1. learn to spell

2. what are you doing in GAY FORUM anyway?

3. do not mess with Kitty...

[slapdashkitty]

...and almost forgot kisses to you IJWT...

...and all my other fans sitting quietly out there in the dark....

I am ready for my close-up

Mr. De Mille...

Edited June 20, 2005 by slapdashkitty