Thai PM Abhisit Under Fire Over Deadly Crackdown

[chantorn]

Nice attempt at baiting --- yet a failure again. The military were surely armed! They, however, were not a mob. Your boys in red were (both armed and a mob) You mean Tak Bai that was one of Thaksin's babies? Or were you referring to some other atrocity committed during Thaksin's reign?

Well done on reminding us that the reds are all about Thaksin and that Thaksin is reponsible for so many many many many more Thai deaths than anyone has yet accused Abhisit of. Then again Thaksin isn't preening anywhere these days, he's just trying to find a safe country to hide in since The big guy in Montenegro has already indicated they have a way of dealing with Thaksin's citizenship if it becomes an issue.

One has in the grimmest of circumstances (Tak Bai) have to wonder at the mindset of zealots who apparently believe that the Thai army had nothing to do with Tak Bai and other massacres.It was one of Thaksin;s "babies" we are told.Quite amazing.

No doubt we will shortly be told by this genius that Red demonstrators shot themselves in the back, and then turned their attention to journalists and those seeking refuge in a temple.

One can more or less understand when the elite take action to protect their interests, but when no account visa runners start pitching in on their behalf, it's unbelievable.This fellow is really just the counterpart of that English moron who took up with the thuggish end of the Reds.A curse on both of them.

Nice second attempt at baiting ---- but during that time the situation in the South had escalated by Thaksin's plan. He was telling the Army what to do. You can't cry about Baangkok's use of troops being Abhisit's (it is!) and then say that the South didn't belong to Thaksin.

Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. Reds (Sae Daeng's Ronin) did apparently fire into reds deliberately to increase the body count on April 10th and there is no reason to think they did not later. The basic premise of the reds was that provoking violence from the government would cause the governent to collapse. That has so far proven to be a flawed idea. Why? Oh yeah! The reds announced in advance that they were NOT PEACEFUL and that they had no intention of being peaceful.

Apparently people will excuse the use of the army to put down one armed insurgency and not another.

If the reds had been unarmed then sending in police (in an intelligent way) would have been the way to proceed. Since the reds ARE (still) armed ... the army was the answer.

For the reds saying that troops were firing indiscriminately into the reds, you will have to explain why so few died! Yes, every death is a sad thing. No, it is not an evil thing when those that died were attacking fixed military positions.

I guess people missed the point when you saw people on the red side baiting the troops with firecrackers etc. (Covering for rifle fire?) I guess people missed where EVERY international mews source described "firefights" which by definition means that people on BOTH sides were shooting!

"Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. " Who, when and where? Do you have a source, a link?

Do you have evidence that "Reds (Sae Daeng's Ronin) did apparently fire into reds deliberately to increase the body count on April 10th"? a link to a source?

"For the reds saying that troops were firing indiscriminately into the reds, you will have to explain why so few died!" How many people have to die that you would call it not a few anymore but a signifiant number, that proves the army most have shot and killed some of them.

I heard somewhere that Seh Daeng shoot himself in the head, just like Hitler did. May be he felt guilty, like Hitler did.

[whiterussian]

Does anyone know the international standards for evicting a large mob of criminals from a barricaded section of a major city? What is done in the UK or the USA when armed terrorists occupy the streets and attack security forces? Suggesting that there is a standard method for dealing with the Thai crisis is ridiculous, when has a similar event happened anywhere else?

A similar event occured in in Thailand in 2008, when a large mob of facist criminals barricaded different sections of the city for a total of 192 days. The government response was to allow the protest to continue until the large mob of criminals got what they wanted and the protest ended.

Shhh... please put this into the memory hole until the next election, when the reds will most likely 'wipe the board'. Another year to play behind the levers of power!! Whoopie! Toot Toot!

Edited May 31, 2010 by whiterussian

[rubl]

"Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. " Who, when and where? Do you have a source, a link?

Do you have evidence that "Reds (Sae Daeng's Ronin) did apparently fire into reds deliberately to increase the body count on April 10th"? a link to a source?

"For the reds saying that troops were firing indiscriminately into the reds, you will have to explain why so few died!" How many people have to die that you would call it not a few anymore but a signifiant number, that proves the army most have shot and killed some of them.

From the IFEX: http://www.ifex.org/thailand/2010/05/19/polenghi_killed/

Read about Channel3 building torched, BP and Nation urging their staff to go home just in case.

[shrekroma]

Thaksin hired Sae Daeng --- Sae Daeng trained the Ronin ---- yes ... that is a direct line for the terrorism charge.

This Gov cannot easily get away by blaming everything on Thaksin.

By no evidence, you said Thakin hired SaeDaeng. And SaeDaeng went rogue against the Gov.

Does that mean this Gov can snipe out SaeDaeng ?

What give this Gov a right to shoot people ?

Is it appropriate that this Gov applying 'preemptive strike' policy towards Reds ? and finally left 80+ civilian deads ?

Why is it so hard to arrange a new clean fair election ?

[gl9999]

Thaksin hired Sae Daeng --- Sae Daeng trained the Ronin ---- yes ... that is a direct line for the terrorism charge.

This Gov cannot easily get away by blaming everything on Thaksin.

By no evidence, you said Thakin hired SaeDaeng. And SaeDaeng went rogue against the Gov.

Does that mean this Gov can snipe out SaeDaeng ?

What give this Gov a right to shoot people ?

Is it appropriate that this Gov applying 'preemptive strike' policy towards Reds ? and finally left 80+ civilian deads ?

Why is it so hard to arrange a new clean fair election ?

Here we go again with the "What gives the government the right to shoot Sae Daeng and kill 80 people" question.

Child, I would answer you but the answer has been given so many times already here. So I suggest you do a little research on a few threads and find the answer yourself. Of course, if you're a Red sympathiser, which I suspect you are, then why bother? In your eyes, the government is 'evil' and the Red Shits are 'peaceful unarmed protesters blah blah blah.

[jdinasia]

One has in the grimmest of circumstances (Tak Bai) have to wonder at the mindset of zealots who apparently believe that the Thai army had nothing to do with Tak Bai and other massacres.It was one of Thaksin;s "babies" we are told.Quite amazing.

No doubt we will shortly be told by this genius that Red demonstrators shot themselves in the back, and then turned their attention to journalists and those seeking refuge in a temple.

One can more or less understand when the elite take action to protect their interests, but when no account visa runners start pitching in on their behalf, it's unbelievable.This fellow is really just the counterpart of that English moron who took up with the thuggish end of the Reds.A curse on both of them.

Nice second attempt at baiting ---- but during that time the situation in the South had escalated by Thaksin's plan. He was telling the Army what to do. You can't cry about Baangkok's use of troops being Abhisit's (it is!) and then say that the South didn't belong to Thaksin.

Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. Reds (Sae Daeng's Ronin) did apparently fire into reds deliberately to increase the body count on April 10th and there is no reason to think they did not later. The basic premise of the reds was that provoking violence from the government would cause the governent to collapse. That has so far proven to be a flawed idea. Why? Oh yeah! The reds announced in advance that they were NOT PEACEFUL and that they had no intention of being peaceful.

Apparently people will excuse the use of the army to put down one armed insurgency and not another.

If the reds had been unarmed then sending in police (in an intelligent way) would have been the way to proceed. Since the reds ARE (still) armed ... the army was the answer.

For the reds saying that troops were firing indiscriminately into the reds, you will have to explain why so few died! Yes, every death is a sad thing. No, it is not an evil thing when those that died were attacking fixed military positions.

I guess people missed the point when you saw people on the red side baiting the troops with firecrackers etc. (Covering for rifle fire?) I guess people missed where EVERY international mews source described "firefights" which by definition means that people on BOTH sides were shooting!

"Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. " Who, when and where? Do you have a source, a link?

Do you have evidence that "Reds (Sae Daeng's Ronin) did apparently fire into reds deliberately to increase the body count on April 10th"? a link to a source?

"For the reds saying that troops were firing indiscriminately into the reds, you will have to explain why so few died!" How many people have to die that you would call it not a few anymore but a signifiant number, that proves the army most have shot and killed some of them.

http://australianetworknews.com/stories/20...158.htm?desktop

"They warned that they will continue their fight and that they will target both Thai and foreign journalists."

Are you going to tell us now that Australians are working for PM Abhisit now and are smearing the Red Shits?

While 80 seems a bigger number, if the troops had gone full auto and really did fire indiscriminately into the crowd, the casualties really could have gone into 3 or even 4 digits. However, Red sympathizers only see what they want to see. Even if 10 people died, to them, the soldiers fired 'indiscriminately' into the crowd.

Doesn't matter -- the reds can do no wrong according to the reds on this board.

Doesn't seem to matter that many of the people were NOT killed by soldiers (including the soldiers that were killed). The reds tried to make a case for "friendly fire in one situation but that was disproved. They dismiss the armed reds with Wengisms (it was a "handmade" gun (sic).

They play ignorant when faced with the video evidence of a man shot and killed Back to front (headshot) whilst facing the troops and with reds around him and ronin spotter above and behind. (Note that was one of the bodies stolen when the reds raided the hospital .. but the initial report of directionality were already made.

Nothing the reds did was wrong to these people ... and nothing the government did was right. Luckily cool and calm heads prevailed during this -- Abhisit showed great restraint

[rubl]

Hmmm Abhisit ordered the troops to create a perimeter (or rather The Army chief did but it amounts to the same thing at the moment -- since Anupong was doing as the government instructed -- a refreshing change!) The Reds attacked. The Army didn't move into Rachprasong until AFTER the leader surrendered.

You say Soldiers shot people in the head. Probably true in more than one occasion though that has yet to be proven.

Thaksin hired Sae Daeng --- Sae Daeng trained the Ronin ---- yes ... that is a direct line for the terrorism charge.

Thaksin hired Seh Daeng? They know each other, Seh Daeng visited him in Dubai. But did Thaksin really hired Seh Daeng? Is there a contract? What is your source?

You have so much insight information that make you very suspicious and puts you almost in the middle of your "direct line"

The late renegade general Seh Daeng has gone on record saying K. Thaksin told him he and three UDD leaders were to take over from some who wanted to stop the protest and deal/co-operate with the government for changes. This was on 14/15 of May (I think) before the encirclement started. Of course there is no 'legally binding' contract, no need amongst gentlemen .

[BigBikeBKK]

Why is it so hard to arrange a new clean fair election ?

If you can't see the contradictions in your question there is no sense trying to reason with you.

[jdinasia]

Thaksin hired Sae Daeng --- Sae Daeng trained the Ronin ---- yes ... that is a direct line for the terrorism charge.

This Gov cannot easily get away by blaming everything on Thaksin.

By no evidence, you said Thakin hired SaeDaeng. And SaeDaeng went rogue against the Gov.

Does that mean this Gov can snipe out SaeDaeng ?

What give this Gov a right to shoot people ?

Is it appropriate that this Gov applying 'preemptive strike' policy towards Reds ? and finally left 80+ civilian deads ?

Why is it so hard to arrange a new clean fair election ?

I am sorry ----

Who did "snipe out" Sae Daeng? (The Gov? The Army? The Red leaders he threatened? Power struggle in the Ronin? PAd retribution for the grenade attacks that killed those in 2008? The Mossad? The CIA

The law in certain circumstances gives the government the right to shoot people. During a State of Emergency after proper warnings and whilst under attack they certainly have that right.

Who killed the 80+ people? The illegal mob that was armed and occupying parts of BKK are certainly the ones responsible for it!

Can you ensure that elections are "clean and fair" with armed terrorists still on the loose? Will YOU stake your life that all candidates can safely campaign anywhere? And why should there be new elections? They were offered and the reds rejected the offer.

[chantorn]

Thaksin hired Sae Daeng --- Sae Daeng trained the Ronin ---- yes ... that is a direct line for the terrorism charge.

This Gov cannot easily get away by blaming everything on Thaksin.

By no evidence, you said Thakin hired SaeDaeng. And SaeDaeng went rogue against the Gov.

Does that mean this Gov can snipe out SaeDaeng ?

What give this Gov a right to shoot people ?

Is it appropriate that this Gov applying 'preemptive strike' policy towards Reds ? and finally left 80+ civilian deads ?

Why is it so hard to arrange a new clean fair election ?

I am sorry ----

Who did "snipe out" Sae Daeng? (The Gov? The Army? The Red leaders he threatened? Power struggle in the Ronin? PAd retribution for the grenade attacks that killed those in 2008? The Mossad? The CIA

The law in certain circumstances gives the government the right to shoot people. During a State of Emergency after proper warnings and whilst under attack they certainly have that right.

Who killed the 80+ people? The illegal mob that was armed and occupying parts of BKK are certainly the ones responsible for it!

Can you ensure that elections are "clean and fair" with armed terrorists still on the loose? Will YOU stake your life that all candidates can safely campaign anywhere? And why should there be new elections? They were offered and the reds rejected the offer.

Are there any terrorist in the far south of Thailand?

[rubl]

Why is it so hard to arrange a new clean fair election ?

If you can't see the contradictions in your question there is no sense trying to reason with you.

True. I can't remember having seen a 'real, fair' election here in Thailand. Mind you, I'm only here since 1994

[kissdani]

Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. Reds (Sae Daeng's Ronin) did apparently fire into reds deliberately to increase the body count on April 10th and there is no reason to think they did not later. The basic premise of the reds was that provoking violence from the government would cause the governent to collapse. That has so far proven to be a flawed idea. Why? Oh yeah! The reds announced in advance that they were NOT PEACEFUL and that they had no intention of being peaceful.

...

For the reds saying that troops were firing indiscriminately into the reds, you will have to explain why so few died! Yes, every death is a sad thing. No, it is not an evil thing when those that died were attacking fixed military positions.

I guess people missed the point when you saw people on the red side baiting the troops with firecrackers etc. (Covering for rifle fire?) I guess people missed where EVERY international mews source described "firefights" which by definition means that people on BOTH sides were shooting!

"Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. " Who, when and where? Do you have a source, a link?

Do you have evidence that "Reds (Sae Daeng's Ronin) did apparently fire into reds deliberately to increase the body count on April 10th"? a link to a source?

"For the reds saying that troops were firing indiscriminately into the reds, you will have to explain why so few died!" How many people have to die that you would call it not a few anymore but a signifiant number, that proves the army most have shot and killed some of them.

http://australianetworknews.com/stories/20...158.htm?desktop

"They warned that they will continue their fight and that they will target both Thai and foreign journalists."

Are you going to tell us now that Australians are working for PM Abhisit now and are smearing the Red Shits?

While 80 seems a bigger number, if the troops had gone full auto and really did fire indiscriminately into the crowd, the casualties really could have gone into 3 or even 4 digits. However, Red sympathizers only see what they want to see. Even if 10 people died, to them, the soldiers fired 'indiscriminately' into the crowd.

"Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. " WHO, WHEN and WHERE?

I would like to see the direct quote. In its context. Do you have a source, a link?

I heard 'the reds' also have said that they are peaceful just like Mother Theresa, or something like that. Do you believe everything what the reds say?

Okay, if dead bodies don't count, because the red shirt would still complain even if 'only' 10 got killed, how many videos or photos of 'black shirts' you need to declare the red shirt to a terrorist movement and the killing for justified?

How many of the dead were terrorists and had attacked the security forces with weapons of war, how many of the wounded had attacked the peacekeeper army with weapons of war?

[shrekroma]

Here we go again.

Poor reds are bought by Thaksin. They are not educated enough. blah blah.

I doubt persons who have this kind of logic in their head can be reasonable.

LOL 1994. stick with TV for another 10 years then you'll know Thailand better.

[jdinasia]

Hmmm Abhisit ordered the troops to create a perimeter (or rather The Army chief did but it amounts to the same thing at the moment -- since Anupong was doing as the government instructed -- a refreshing change!) The Reds attacked. The Army didn't move into Rachprasong until AFTER the leader surrendered.

You say Soldiers shot people in the head. Probably true in more than one occasion though that has yet to be proven.

Thaksin hired Sae Daeng --- Sae Daeng trained the Ronin ---- yes ... that is a direct line for the terrorism charge.

Thaksin hired Seh Daeng? They know each other, Seh Daeng visited him in Dubai. But did Thaksin really hired Seh Daeng? Is there a contract? What is your source?

You have so much insight information that make you very suspicious and puts you almost in the middle of your "direct line"

The late renegade general Seh Daeng has gone on record saying K. Thaksin told him he and three UDD leaders were to take over from some who wanted to stop the protest and deal/co-operate with the government for changes. This was on 14/15 of May (I think) before the encirclement started. Of course there is no 'legally binding' contract, no need amongst gentlemen .

Oh I am sure that payment records will show the link. I am also sure that Sae Daeng stated Thaksin was The Boss

[rubl]

Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. Reds (Sae Daeng's Ronin) did apparently fire into reds deliberately to increase the body count on April 10th and there is no reason to think they did not later. The basic premise of the reds was that provoking violence from the government would cause the governent to collapse. That has so far proven to be a flawed idea. Why? Oh yeah! The reds announced in advance that they were NOT PEACEFUL and that they had no intention of being peaceful.

...

For the reds saying that troops were firing indiscriminately into the reds, you will have to explain why so few died! Yes, every death is a sad thing. No, it is not an evil thing when those that died were attacking fixed military positions.

I guess people missed the point when you saw people on the red side baiting the troops with firecrackers etc. (Covering for rifle fire?) I guess people missed where EVERY international mews source described "firefights" which by definition means that people on BOTH sides were shooting!

"Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. " Who, when and where? Do you have a source, a link?

Do you have evidence that "Reds (Sae Daeng's Ronin) did apparently fire into reds deliberately to increase the body count on April 10th"? a link to a source?

"For the reds saying that troops were firing indiscriminately into the reds, you will have to explain why so few died!" How many people have to die that you would call it not a few anymore but a signifiant number, that proves the army most have shot and killed some of them.

http://australianetworknews.com/stories/20...158.htm?desktop

"They warned that they will continue their fight and that they will target both Thai and foreign journalists."

Are you going to tell us now that Australians are working for PM Abhisit now and are smearing the Red Shits?

While 80 seems a bigger number, if the troops had gone full auto and really did fire indiscriminately into the crowd, the casualties really could have gone into 3 or even 4 digits. However, Red sympathizers only see what they want to see. Even if 10 people died, to them, the soldiers fired 'indiscriminately' into the crowd.

"Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. " WHO, WHEN and WHERE?

I would like to see the direct quote. In its context. Do you have a source, a link?

I heard 'the reds' also have said that they are peaceful just like Mother Theresa, or something like that. Do you believe everything what the reds say?

Okay, if dead bodies don't count, because the red shirt would still complain even if 'only' 10 got killed, how many videos or photos of 'black shirts' you need to declare the red shirt to a terrorist movement and the killing for justified?

How many of the dead were terrorists and had attacked the security forces with weapons of war, how many of the wounded had attacked the peacekeeper army with weapons of war?

From my earlier reply to the same questions:

From the IFEX: http://www.ifex.org/thailand/2010/05/19/polenghi_killed/

Read about Channel3 building torched, BP and Nation urging their staff to go home just in case.

There's a link to the latest youtube clip with 'black shirts' somewhere on this forum, just broadcast by CNN.

A total list with "name killed by name" will take a while, none of the involved were very good at keeping notes. Most notes were written after and may say more about the writer's political inclination than the truth I'm afraid.

[gl9999]

Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. Reds (Sae Daeng's Ronin) did apparently fire into reds deliberately to increase the body count on April 10th and there is no reason to think they did not later. The basic premise of the reds was that provoking violence from the government would cause the governent to collapse. That has so far proven to be a flawed idea. Why? Oh yeah! The reds announced in advance that they were NOT PEACEFUL and that they had no intention of being peaceful.

...

For the reds saying that troops were firing indiscriminately into the reds, you will have to explain why so few died! Yes, every death is a sad thing. No, it is not an evil thing when those that died were attacking fixed military positions.

I guess people missed the point when you saw people on the red side baiting the troops with firecrackers etc. (Covering for rifle fire?) I guess people missed where EVERY international mews source described "firefights" which by definition means that people on BOTH sides were shooting!

"Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. " Who, when and where? Do you have a source, a link?

Do you have evidence that "Reds (Sae Daeng's Ronin) did apparently fire into reds deliberately to increase the body count on April 10th"? a link to a source?

"For the reds saying that troops were firing indiscriminately into the reds, you will have to explain why so few died!" How many people have to die that you would call it not a few anymore but a signifiant number, that proves the army most have shot and killed some of them.

http://australianetworknews.com/stories/20...158.htm?desktop

"They warned that they will continue their fight and that they will target both Thai and foreign journalists."

Are you going to tell us now that Australians are working for PM Abhisit now and are smearing the Red Shits?

While 80 seems a bigger number, if the troops had gone full auto and really did fire indiscriminately into the crowd, the casualties really could have gone into 3 or even 4 digits. However, Red sympathizers only see what they want to see. Even if 10 people died, to them, the soldiers fired 'indiscriminately' into the crowd.

"Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. " WHO, WHEN and WHERE?

I would like to see the direct quote. In its context. Do you have a source, a link?

I heard 'the reds' also have said that they are peaceful just like Mother Theresa, or something like that. Do you believe everything what the reds say?

Okay, if dead bodies don't count, because the red shirt would still complain even if 'only' 10 got killed, how many videos or photos of 'black shirts' you need to declare the red shirt to a terrorist movement and the killing for justified?

How many of the dead were terrorists and had attacked the security forces with weapons of war, how many of the wounded had attacked the peacekeeper army with weapons of war?

I did give you a link. But you want a 'direct quote'. Hahahahaha typical Red Shit, like Jatuporn, you're asking the impossible. As stupid as the Red Shits are, I don't think anyone of them is dumb enough to threaten to kill someone and then leave his name for a 'direct quote'.

The 80 killed(sans the medics and journalists) were there even after the government warned them repeatedly to leave and they also knew a crack down was coming. So if they died, they have themselves to blame. While not all of them were armed with weapons of war, they fought side by side with people that were armed. That makes them as guilty. And you don't need an assault rifle or a grenade launcher to be deadly. A molotov cocktail is just as bad.

[gl9999]

Here we go again.

Poor reds are bought by Thaksin. They are not educated enough. blah blah.

I doubt persons who have this kind of logic in their head can be reasonable.

LOL 1994. stick with TV for another 10 years then you'll know Thailand better.

As condascending as that sounds, you have to wonder about people who repeatedly vote for someone who murdered 3000 of their fellow citizens and stole billions.

[ballpoint]

Hmmm Abhisit ordered the troops to create a perimeter (or rather The Army chief did but it amounts to the same thing at the moment -- since Anupong was doing as the government instructed -- a refreshing change!) The Reds attacked. The Army didn't move into Rachprasong until AFTER the leader surrendered.

You say Soldiers shot people in the head. Probably true in more than one occasion though that has yet to be proven.

Thaksin hired Sae Daeng --- Sae Daeng trained the Ronin ---- yes ... that is a direct line for the terrorism charge.

Thaksin hired Seh Daeng? They know each other, Seh Daeng visited him in Dubai. But did Thaksin really hired Seh Daeng? Is there a contract? What is your source?

You have so much insight information that make you very suspicious and puts you almost in the middle of your "direct line"

The late renegade general Seh Daeng has gone on record saying K. Thaksin told him he and three UDD leaders were to take over from some who wanted to stop the protest and deal/co-operate with the government for changes. This was on 14/15 of May (I think) before the encirclement started. Of course there is no 'legally binding' contract, no need amongst gentlemen .

These red mouthpieces have no interest in answering questions asked of them, or in reading the answers of questions they ask. Indeed, the questions asked simply reveal their great ignorance. Given the low lifes and general crooks that make up the PTP, from its leaders (the Thai one and the Montenegrin one) down, I would take it as a great honour to be censured by them. The bastards are worried. In their own eyes, you're either for the reds/PTP or you're against them, and I for one would rather be on the outside pissing in.

To further the black shirt allegations, a useful bit of background is provided by "The boys in black" by Desmond Ball (2004, White Lotus Press). The Taharn Phran were a group formed in 1978 by Gen Chavalit to hunt down and exterminate the communists along the border provinces. They were reorganised in 2000 by Gen Surayad, who disbanded many of the regiments, something it is claimed Chavalit never forgave him for. Following their disbanding, many of these rangers became, in the words of Prof Ball, "thugs for local strongmen" and "revere Gen Chavalit and often refer to him as their 'father'". It's not too hard to connect the pieces together. One of the missing pieces, however, is the whereabouts of Gen Panlop Pinmanee. He is being conspicuous by his silence, given his almost constant bluster and rhetoric during the protest, with his stated wish to "transform the red-shirted movement into a 'people's army', with former prime minister and Thaksin ally General Chavalit Yongchaiyudh as the supreme commander." What new strategy is he planning? Or will he be the next to be hunted down and taken care of?

[shrekroma]

Red sympathizers only see what they want to see. Even if 10 people died, to them, the soldiers fired 'indiscriminately' into the crowd.

Abhisit defenders only see what they want to see. Even if there is 1 blk man among protesters, to them, the soldiers can fire live rounds into the crowd.

I'm Kidding. sorry.

[Crushdepth]

I doubt persons who have this kind of logic in their head can be reasonable.

It's certainly hard to reason with someone who has no logic at all

Does it bother you that your hero is corrupt and associated with electoral fraud? Or is that ok with you?

[gl9999]

Red sympathizers only see what they want to see. Even if 10 people died, to them, the soldiers fired 'indiscriminately' into the crowd.

Abhisit defenders only see what they want to see. Even if there is 1 blk man among protesters, to them, the soldiers can fire live rounds into the crowd.

I'm Kidding. sorry.

Who cares? Prime Minister Abhisit is still Prime Minister. Red Shit leaders are in jail and the rest of the little Red Shits are back home planting rice for the us Bangkok elite. It's a pretty good day.

[kissdani]

Hmmm Abhisit ordered the troops to create a perimeter (or rather The Army chief did but it amounts to the same thing at the moment -- since Anupong was doing as the government instructed -- a refreshing change!) The Reds attacked. The Army didn't move into Rachprasong until AFTER the leader surrendered.

You say Soldiers shot people in the head. Probably true in more than one occasion though that has yet to be proven.

Thaksin hired Sae Daeng --- Sae Daeng trained the Ronin ---- yes ... that is a direct line for the terrorism charge.

Thaksin hired Seh Daeng? They know each other, Seh Daeng visited him in Dubai. But did Thaksin really hired Seh Daeng? Is there a contract? What is your source?

You have so much insight information that make you very suspicious and puts you almost in the middle of your "direct line"

The late renegade general Seh Daeng has gone on record saying K. Thaksin told him he and three UDD leaders were to take over from some who wanted to stop the protest and deal/co-operate with the government for changes. This was on 14/15 of May (I think) before the encirclement started. Of course there is no 'legally binding' contract, no need amongst gentlemen .

You know the game: When and where, source, link, direct quote.

Please consider the words of PM Abhisit:

"Abhisit also urged the public to be cautious about rumours and untrue stories as his administration remained committed to a free press."

Seh Daeng has also said:

- "I only want to fight with peaceful means."

- "The Men in Black come from the government."

- "the government shot the citizens" on April 10.

- Maj. Gen. Khattiya said he had a message for President Barack Obama: "This government is murdering people. Bring the United Nations in, because it is going to be like Pol Pot, Mussolini, and Hitler."

Do you believe that? Do you think you can use Seh daeng statements as the statement of a key witness or as clear evidence?

[jdinasia]

The Who --- Red Shirts ----

When -- May 19

Where Din Daeng

You will find reports on this from the TJA (Thai Journalist Assoc and the TBJA)

You will find reports in the foreign press

You will find reports in the Thai print press if you can read Thai

You will find it on the May 19th closed Rally thread

As to your other questions ---- who shot whom? That has to be answered before any other question.

[rubl]

Red sympathizers only see what they want to see. Even if 10 people died, to them, the soldiers fired 'indiscriminately' into the crowd.

Abhisit defenders only see what they want to see. Even if there is 1 blk man among protesters, to them, the soldiers can fire live rounds into the crowd.

I'm Kidding. sorry.

Here you should have put a serious, well-meaning reply

Anyway, my 2-cents worth, personal and as far as I remember

[leekman]

Red sympathizers only see what they want to see. Even if 10 people died, to them, the soldiers fired 'indiscriminately' into the crowd.

Abhisit defenders only see what they want to see. Even if there is 1 blk man among protesters, to them, the soldiers can fire live rounds into the crowd.

I'm Kidding. sorry.

Who cares? Prime Minister Abhisit is still Prime Minister. Red Shit leaders are in jail and the rest of the little Red Shits are back home planting rice for the us Bangkok elite. It's a pretty good day.

i care. i wish abhisit and his other partner deputy, get what they deserve. the monkey house is to good for people like them. there time will come.

[jayjay0]

The PM bent over backwards to avoid violence, but the protesters refused to cooperate.

Newsflash: Killing 80+ people isn't exactly "bending over backwards to avoid violence".

Still trying to get around with only one oar in the water I see.

When you put yourself in a position where you are defying the law, disrupting thousands of honest hard working citizens, refusing to listen to any proposition to settle, things burning down buildings and invading hospitals You really dont leave a lot of choices.

My way or the highway will not work two months and you still stuck to your position. When the army started moving in perhaps any one with a IQ equal to a refrigerator would have left and not got shot. I suppose that never crossed your greedy little mind. How much were you getting paid.

[gl9999]

Red sympathizers only see what they want to see. Even if 10 people died, to them, the soldiers fired 'indiscriminately' into the crowd.

Abhisit defenders only see what they want to see. Even if there is 1 blk man among protesters, to them, the soldiers can fire live rounds into the crowd.

I'm Kidding. sorry.

Who cares? Prime Minister Abhisit is still Prime Minister. Red Shit leaders are in jail and the rest of the little Red Shits are back home planting rice for the us Bangkok elite. It's a pretty good day.

i care. i wish abhisit and his other partner deputy, get what they deserve. the monkey house is to good for people like them. there time will come.

There there. Everyone's time will come.

[MAJIC]

Greenham Common Women's Peace Camp. 1981 - 2000

For the most part Greenham Common was a way of life Gender encampment,of no violent threat to the countries

stability,and unlike the Redshirts demonstration relatively peaceful by comparison. not a like for like comparison,hence

the 9 years period of protest,which by the way their aim was the removal of Nuclear Missiles in that area,not to bring

down the legitimate Government of the day and reinstate a deposed absconder from justice..............Big difference!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nice try, the protestors broke the law by cutting the fence and entering Government property....sound familiar

A government spokesman at the time stated they were 'at risk of being shot'.......sound familiar

To reiterate there is "not a like for like comparison" the Redshirts broke the law in the manner of Anarchists/Terrorists no comparison with the Greenham common protesters.

At the time the Greenham Common protest was an expensive thorn in the side of the Government nothing more,again no comparison

your definition of 'big difference' appears a little ill thought out....but this is just detail and not important to the future of Thailand.....maybe take this as a reminder to research a little deeper next time....

To reiterate there is not a like for like comparison the Redshirts broke the law in the manner of Anarchists/Terrorists no comparison with the Greenham common protesters.

At the time the Greenham Common protest was an expensive thorn in the side of the Government nothing more,again no comparison.

Eventually the Greenham common protesters were evicted by the Local District Council,thats the difference between non violent demonstrations and violent protesters inconveniencing and holding the rest of the population to ransom,again no comparison.They didnt destroy the area after they surrendered either,again no comparison.

Got it now?

I will agree with you on one point: not important to the future of Thailand.

[rubl]

Thaksin hired Seh Daeng? They know each other, Seh Daeng visited him in Dubai. But did Thaksin really hired Seh Daeng? Is there a contract? What is your source?

You have so much insight information that make you very suspicious and puts you almost in the middle of your "direct line"

The late renegade general Seh Daeng has gone on record saying K. Thaksin told him he and three UDD leaders were to take over from some who wanted to stop the protest and deal/co-operate with the government for changes. This was on 14/15 of May (I think) before the encirclement started. Of course there is no 'legally binding' contract, no need amongst gentlemen .

You know the game: When and where, source, link, direct quote.

Please consider the words of PM Abhisit:

"Abhisit also urged the public to be cautious about rumours and untrue stories as his administration remained committed to a free press."

Seh Daeng has also said:

- "I only want to fight with peaceful means."

- "The Men in Black come from the government."

- "the government shot the citizens" on April 10.

- Maj. Gen. Khattiya said he had a message for President Barack Obama: "This government is murdering people. Bring the United Nations in, because it is going to be like Pol Pot, Mussolini, and Hitler."

Do you believe that? Do you think you can use Seh daeng statements as the statement of a key witness or as clear evidence?

This may mean I can't trust anything the late Seh Daeng said. Mind you I was already wondering how this red-shirt supporter moved up to 'one of it's leaders'. As true red-shirt protester I would be appalled by his audacity.

Oh, by the way, what are you trying to say?

[473geo]

Well I'm pleased Abhisit will not be expecting to ride into power on the sad ripple of support generated for him by his supposed supporters on this Forum!!!

Hopefully not too many voting Thai will read the derogatory comments aimed at their own fellow citizens by the farang 'supposed' Abhisit supporters!!!